INFO-VAX Wed, 28 Feb 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 118 Contents: Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Re: Blue Screen of Death on VMS Re: Blue Screen of Death on VMS Cover up attempt Re: DECforms Re: DECforms Re: DECforms Re: F$GETJPI doesn't match SHOW PROCESS/ACCOUNTING Re: F$GETJPI doesn't match SHOW PROCESS/ACCOUNTING For God, VMS, and Spain! Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Re: INSTALL-E-NOINST64B, cannot install images with 64-bit image sections sectio Re: INSTALL-E-NOINST64B, cannot install images with 64-bit image sections sectio Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Re: oversight or are my libraries no longer supported on VMS? Re: Questions about DoSD (Dump of System Disk) Re: Questions about DoSD (Dump of System Disk) Re: SpamAssassin Re: SpamAssassin ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:08:28 +0100 From: "Rudolf Wingert" Subject: Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Message-ID: <001b01c75b07$3f63eb00$994614ac@domina.fom> Hello, Years ago, I could see the same behavior. An application started every Sunday morning and initiated a heavy random access on the disk. In case of this, the disk produced a lot of failures. After reboot the problem was fixed. This problem escalated over the month and could be only fixed with a power cycle of disk. I did exchange the disk and tested them with a Windows system without any failure. It looked, that the failure occurs only under OpenVMS. The new disk worked really good. Best regards R. Wingert ------------------------------ Date: 28 Feb 2007 01:02:56 -0800 From: "winston19842005@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Message-ID: <1172653376.895433.227410@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> Yeah, I got one too. Dedicating new data center for a hospital. The hospital has buttons used to exit certain areas. When touring the new data center, one of the big-wigs thinks the big red button is the same thing - and everything goes down. Brilliant! Next day they install a cover over it with a plastic "rip-cord" that must be pulled to access the button. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Feb 2007 01:04:35 -0800 From: "winston19842005@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Message-ID: <1172653475.552407.299370@z35g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> On Feb 27, 4:19 pm, "Richard B. gilbert" wrote: ... > > If you lost your systems guy for reasons other than being unable to pay > him, I'm available! Me, too... Will work for peanuts... ------------------------------ Date: 28 Feb 2007 05:03:24 -0800 From: fred@soho.umd.edu Subject: Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Message-ID: <1172667804.382253.199120@z35g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> Hi, I'm back. Many thanks to all of you for your suggestions, and for the red button/janitor/airplane/vacuum cleaner stories. Our mystery is solved! Here's what we did. First we decided to exercise the disk intensely. So we did a $ ANALYZE/DISK_STRUCTURE/READ_CHECK DKA0: This is supposed to do a read check of all allocated blocks, it reads the disk twice. Well, the command never finished, and SH DEV DKA0 tells us Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt $DKA0: MountVerify 2381 DISKF0_SYS 1662678 521 1 So, we induced the failure on a Tuesday! The Alpha was still usable, but extremely sluggish. That convinced us we had a disk problem. We bought a new Seagate 4 GB SCSI disk, booted from the CD, and tried to clone the system disk. The catch-22 was that the cloning activity induced the mount/verify loop again, until we mounted the system disk with mount/over=id/nomount_verify dka0: After the cloning was completed we replaced the old system disk with the new one, booted from it, ran Analyze/Disk/Read again and were rewarded with: Error Count = 0. We're back in business, and out of curiosity will analyze the old system disk with some Mac utilities. So why did we only see the problem on Sundays? And why did rebooting always fix things? A number of your suggestions fit the circumstances: The computers live in a University lab in a research building. We don't have UPS, but we do use some 30-pound power conditioners. There are occasional heavy-duty laser experiments going on, that could cause a voltage drop. The University reduces the heat on weekends, it's been a cold February here, so it could be a temperature problem. Also, we're not that far from Andrews Air Force base... In fact the problem was none of the above, but rather a disk fragmentation program. This process runs daily, but only on Sunday mornings does it do a "Consolidate Freespace", very disk intensive. It was invisible to us neophytes because it's not a batch job, but something like a detached process that's spawned by several stupid interleaving nested .com files. Presumably there are some bad blocks on the disk that were not being bypassed by the low-level disk software. Soft reboots, from DCL, would then clear the problem by killing whatever program was hanging the disk. Btw, we have a red-button story too. Almost exactly 12 years ago we completed a long particle calibration of our instrument at the Univ of Bern. We then had to drive overnight to Munich in order to link up with some other instruments for a final integration before delivery to the spacecraft. The integration test was something like 8 hours long (ironically, it was a SUNDAY), and about midway through it our Principal Investigator joined us. He's a really friendly, jovial, robust, hyperactive Bavarian. A few hours later his wife called him to remind him they had guests coming for a party, which he had completely forgotten about. So he wanted to stay for the completion, but he couldn't bear getting yelled at by his wife. Totally conflicted, he leaned against the wall of the lab and let out a huge sigh. Simultaneously - as you can guess by now - he depressed a large red button that turned off the power to not only all of the instruments, but in fact to the entire building. He then left. Fortunately one of his colleagues knew how to contact the fire department, who were the experts at restoring the power. Then we had to repeat almost the entire integration test. Somehow it all worked out and makes for a good story. That instrument is now flying on the SOHO spacecraft; if you're interested in some nearly real-time solar wind data you're welcome to visit us at http://umtof.umd.edu/pm/ ------------------------------ Date: 28 Feb 2007 14:06:23 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Alpha mystery! Only on Sundays?? Message-ID: <54lgivF20ll8sU1@mid.individual.net> In article <001b01c75b07$3f63eb00$994614ac@domina.fom>, "Rudolf Wingert" writes: > Hello, > > Years ago, I could see the same behavior. An application started every > Sunday morning and initiated a heavy random access on the disk. In case of > this, the disk produced a lot of failures. After reboot the problem was > fixed. This problem escalated over the month and could be only fixed with a > power cycle of disk. I did exchange the disk and tested them with a Windows > system without any failure. It looked, that the failure occurs only under > OpenVMS. The new disk worked really good. > OK, as long as we are talking about time related stories, I have one more. It seems I came into an operation where there was a certain job that ran every wednesday night. (Oh yeah, this is on a Univac 1100.) The job would be let out of the queue around 10:00 PM. It would run til between midnite and 1:00 AM. then it would stall. Nothing, just sit there in an idle state. Aparently this had been going on for ages. The operator would eventually call one of the analysts, but in most cases they (being government employees) would not come in in the middle of the night. And, anyway, after a couple of hours the program would come out of idle state and run to completion, usually in less than a half hour. Go figure. Well, when I got there, I was a) military and b) married. This meant they could make me come in in the middle of the night (because of a.) and they knew where to find me in the middle of the night (unlike the other military who were not b.) So they started calling me. They usually waited til the job had been stalled for a couple hours before calling me in which meant that by the time I got there the job had re-started and run to completion. So I decided to head that off. I had them call me when they started the job and I got there in time to see the job stall. This meant I now knew where in the job it was stalling (remember, nothing ever printed a message saying there was a problem!) It turned out to be simple to fix and funny in a wierd sort of way. It was stalling right before it did the sort of the masterfile. It seems the programmer who had written and set it up put an entry in the ECL (Univac's equivalent for IBM JCL) had put in an entry that asked for all the memory the machine had before beginning the sort. The result was that when this point was reached the job would go into a wait state until every other running job ended, grabbing memory from each as they ended and preventing other jobs form coming in fromt he queue. Once it had all the memory it ran the sort, which, because it had all the mameory, ran in just a couple of minutes. The job ended, other jobs came in from the queue and everything went on normally. Apparently the programmer who wrote that ECL stream didn't know how to figure out how much real memory a job might actually require and so decided it needed all of it. I, being used to working on early micros where having 16K of memory was often a luxury, was prety good at managing memory allocation. A simple change of the ECL made the problem go away. But it was funny at the time!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 13:38:29 GMT From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Blue Screen of Death on VMS Message-ID: "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:5601f$45e45fab$cef8887a$9893@TEKSAVVY.COM... > > Whoever chose the default colour "blue" for the background of the console > on a ATI Radeon 7500 should be punished by being offered a job at > Microsoft. Thank you. I chose it because it is the universal symbol for "this system isn't running right now, thanks for your support". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:23:51 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Blue Screen of Death on VMS Message-ID: An update. It wasn't Hein's utility that crashed the X server directly. I had entered the "debug" command, no knowing what it was suppposed to do. Turns out that this command spawns the GUI debugger and this is what likely crashed the X server. I tried it again and this time it didn't crash it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:56:55 GMT From: Jennifer Crosby Subject: Cover up attempt Message-ID: http://toiletseatcoverup.blogspot.com/ - Yahoo ads not performing well? Publisher profits in the toilet? Join the best affiliate program known to man. Jennifer Crosby very hot but is she single? Ya its no two man race to a one man shit show this time dear. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 12:26:35 GMT From: Nigel Barker Subject: Re: DECforms Message-ID: On 26 Feb 2007 17:15:59 -0800, yyyc186@hughes.net wrote: > I also regret IBM having let OS/2 die on the vine. It's a bit unfair to blame IBM for the demise of OS/2. They lost well over a billion dollars trying to persuade the reluctant public to embrace it. -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:47:30 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: DECforms Message-ID: Hi, > It's a bit unfair to blame IBM for the demise of OS/2. They lost well over a > billion dollars trying to persuade the reluctant public to embrace it. They're still making money out of it. The biggest bank in the UK (and one of the biggest in the world) are (or at least were as of two years ago) using nothing but OS/2 in the front office, and paying IBM a shitload for the privilege of support! Given the haggling over Windows prices I wouldn't be surprised if it was on hold till Vista (and now they wait for bug-fixes. . .). Regards Richard Maher ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Barker" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 8:26 PM Subject: Re: DECforms > On 26 Feb 2007 17:15:59 -0800, yyyc186@hughes.net wrote: > > > I also regret IBM having let OS/2 die on the vine. > > It's a bit unfair to blame IBM for the demise of OS/2. They lost well over a > billion dollars trying to persuade the reluctant public to embrace it. > > -- > Nigel Barker > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:56:49 -0700 From: - Subject: Re: DECforms Message-ID: Nigel Barker wrote: > On 26 Feb 2007 17:15:59 -0800, yyyc186@hughes.net wrote: > >> I also regret IBM having let OS/2 die on the vine. > > It's a bit unfair to blame IBM for the demise of OS/2. They lost well over a > billion dollars trying to persuade the reluctant public to embrace it. > > -- > Nigel Barker > Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur The recent Comes V. Microsoft case brought out a lot about this issue. See http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070220083801959 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 23:04:32 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: F$GETJPI doesn't match SHOW PROCESS/ACCOUNTING Message-ID: Hi David, It looks like you're doing this que lookup stuff in DCL and are presumably very happy with it. But I'm just curious to know if using a html and Javascript front-end was as easy as below, whether you'd consider using that. (Granted that for such an application where requirements are limited, you could've easily had a html (+/- Javascript) front end years ago with simple http submit IBM3270 crap page refreshing stuff, and more recently that httpxmlfudgestate thingy, but I was just wondering if you or others see anything appealing in the following. And it's ramifications for more robust and demanding applications.) Regards Richard Maher Example1.html ============= Example Client for Tier3 demo queue-lookup server Author: Richard Maher

Example Client for Tier3 DEMO application server on VMS



Enter Job Entry Number [Default is All jobs]: Jobs Found:


This is an example of a browser-based, html and JavaScript, client interacting with a VMS hosted Tier3 Application Server in a connection-oriented and context-rich environment.

You would have noticed that, when this page was initially displayed, you were immediately prompted for your VMS Username and Password. Once authorization is successful your credentials, and an accompanying Persona, are automatically made available to your 3GL User Action Routines each time their Server Process is chosen to perform work on behalf of the client. In this example, the user only gets to see those Print and Batch jobs that they have privileges to view. You can find the corresponding server code for this example (demo_uars.cob) in your t3$examples directory.

The session and server connection are terminated when you change web pages or refresh this page.


"Tier3" is a registered trademark of Tier3 Software Ltd
"CornuCopiae" is a trademark of Richard Maher

"David J Dachtera" wrote in message news:45DFB780.462B5295@spam.comcast.net... > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > > > > On Feb 22, 7:19 pm, David J Dachtera > > wrote: > > > Hhmmm... > > : > > > $ jbi = f$getjpi( jpi, "biocnt" ) > > : > > > Why don't the Direct I/O and Buffered I/O counts match the values returned by F$GETJPI()? > > > > Because you did not ask for those? :-) > > > > This topic seems to call for a teasing reply or two. > > > > I'll go with: > > > > - David has forgotten more about DCL than most programmers ever know, > > and here is a case in point. > > > > my runner up: > > > > - Senior moment Dave? > > Yeah, kinda. I really wanted DIRIO and BUFIO. > > See, I'm developing a sort of an extended DELETE|SET|SHOW ENTRY. The SHOW output > looks like this ("sanitized" for publication): > > $ ent show q=node$batch > Entry Jobname Username Blocks Status > ----- ------- -------- ------ ------ > 3450 SITE_RELL SYSTEM Executing > On available batch queue NODE$BATCH > SUBMITted 23-FEB-2007 00:04:40.05 > /AFTER=23-FEB-2007 00:45:00.00 > Running since 23-FEB-2007 00:45:00.05 > 000030BB SITE_RELL CPU=00:09:51.85 PF=87830 IO=2388646 MEM=36 > > 3418 SITE_PAT SYSTEM Executing > On available batch queue NODE$BATCH > SUBMITted 22-FEB-2007 17:00:19.57 > /AFTER=23-FEB-2007 02:00:00.00 > Running since 23-FEB-2007 02:00:00.00 > 000030C0 SITE_PAT CPU=00:00:02.53 PF=15849 IO=2419 MEM=39 > > 3518 SYSHOURLY SYSTEM Holding until 23-FEB-2007 > 09:00:00.00 > On available batch queue NODE$BATCH > SUBMITted 23-FEB-2007 08:00:02.18 > /AFTER=23-FEB-2007 09:00:00.00 > > 3451 SYSDAILY SYSTEM Holding until 24-FEB-2007 > 00:05:00.00 > On available batch queue NODE$BATCH > SUBMITted 23-FEB-2007 00:05:02.17 > /AFTER=24-FEB-2007 00:05:00.00 > > Note the "mini-CTRL+T" display for jobs that are running. I'm sure the MEM value > is still wrong. I'm using PPGCNT, but it doesn't match an actual CTRL+T display. > > Notice also that the /AFTER time is shown for jobs that are Executing, unlike > the standard SHOW ENTRY display. The procedure uses SHOW ENTRY as well as > F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_ENTRY", ...). > > P1 can be DEL, SET or SHOW (DEL and SET are obviously potentially VERY > dangerous!). > > P2 can be a list of (range(s) of) entry numbers, a single entry number (range) > or the expression Q[UEUE]=queue_name. Yes, the expression > "Q=SYS$BATCH,NODE$BATCH" is allowed (list does not require parens - F$ELEMENT() > is used looking for comma-separated items to the right of the "=" before the > next whitespace), and wild-cards in queue names are supported. (!CAUTION!) > > P3 can be /LOG (for DEL or SET), /FULL for SHOW or any qualifier supported by > the matching SET ENTRY, SHOW ENTRY to DELETE/ENTRY command (though some may not > make sense for this usage). > > Ideally, I'd like to see this functionality added to: > > SHOW > ENTRY > /EXTENDED > /QUEUE=queue_name[/BY_JOB_STATUS=value] > /[NO]CTRLT (default should be CTRLT for Executing jobs) > . > . > . > > SET > ENTRY > /QUEUE=queue_name[/BY_JOB_STATUS=value] > . > . > . > > DELETE/ENTRY=[([entry_number[,entry_number[,...]]]|QUEUE={queue_name[,queue_ name[,...]]])] > > ...with support for ranges of entry numbers (SET, SHOW and DELETE already > support lists of specific entry numbers) and selection of entries by queue name > and job status. > > Also, how 'bout letting SET ENTRY/DELETE duplicate the function of DELETE/ENTRY? > > Nothing version-specific here; so, back-porting is reasonably expectable. ;-) > > ...oh, yeah: count my hand raised, also, for RENAME/QUEUE. Bloody pain doing it > the other way! > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems > http://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 23:05:17 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: F$GETJPI doesn't match SHOW PROCESS/ACCOUNTING Message-ID: Hi David, It looks like you're doing this que lookup stuff in DCL and are presumably very happy with it. But I'm just curious to know if using a html and Javascript front-end was as easy as below, whether you'd consider using that. (Granted that for such an application where requirements are limited, you could've easily had a html (+/- Javascript) front end years ago with simple http submit IBM3270 crap page refreshing stuff, and more recently that httpxmlfudgestate thingy, but I was just wondering if you or others see anything appealing in the following. And it's ramifications for more robust and demanding applications.) Regards Richard Maher Example1.html ============= Example Client for Tier3 demo queue-lookup server Author: Richard Maher

Example Client for Tier3 DEMO application server on VMS



Enter Job Entry Number [Default is All jobs]: Jobs Found:


This is an example of a browser-based, html and JavaScript, client interacting with a VMS hosted Tier3 Application Server in a connection-oriented and context-rich environment.

You would have noticed that, when this page was initially displayed, you were immediately prompted for your VMS Username and Password. Once authorization is successful your credentials, and an accompanying Persona, are automatically made available to your 3GL User Action Routines each time their Server Process is chosen to perform work on behalf of the client. In this example, the user only gets to see those Print and Batch jobs that they have privileges to view. You can find the corresponding server code for this example (demo_uars.cob) in your t3$examples directory.

The session and server connection are terminated when you change web pages or refresh this page.


"Tier3" is a registered trademark of Tier3 Software Ltd
"CornuCopiae" is a trademark of Richard Maher

"David J Dachtera" wrote in message news:45DFB780.462B5295@spam.comcast.net... > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > > > > On Feb 22, 7:19 pm, David J Dachtera > > wrote: > > > Hhmmm... > > : > > > $ jbi = f$getjpi( jpi, "biocnt" ) > > : > > > Why don't the Direct I/O and Buffered I/O counts match the values returned by F$GETJPI()? > > > > Because you did not ask for those? :-) > > > > This topic seems to call for a teasing reply or two. > > > > I'll go with: > > > > - David has forgotten more about DCL than most programmers ever know, > > and here is a case in point. > > > > my runner up: > > > > - Senior moment Dave? > > Yeah, kinda. I really wanted DIRIO and BUFIO. > > See, I'm developing a sort of an extended DELETE|SET|SHOW ENTRY. The SHOW output > looks like this ("sanitized" for publication): > > $ ent show q=node$batch > Entry Jobname Username Blocks Status > ----- ------- -------- ------ ------ > 3450 SITE_RELL SYSTEM Executing > On available batch queue NODE$BATCH > SUBMITted 23-FEB-2007 00:04:40.05 > /AFTER=23-FEB-2007 00:45:00.00 > Running since 23-FEB-2007 00:45:00.05 > 000030BB SITE_RELL CPU=00:09:51.85 PF=87830 IO=2388646 MEM=36 > > 3418 SITE_PAT SYSTEM Executing > On available batch queue NODE$BATCH > SUBMITted 22-FEB-2007 17:00:19.57 > /AFTER=23-FEB-2007 02:00:00.00 > Running since 23-FEB-2007 02:00:00.00 > 000030C0 SITE_PAT CPU=00:00:02.53 PF=15849 IO=2419 MEM=39 > > 3518 SYSHOURLY SYSTEM Holding until 23-FEB-2007 > 09:00:00.00 > On available batch queue NODE$BATCH > SUBMITted 23-FEB-2007 08:00:02.18 > /AFTER=23-FEB-2007 09:00:00.00 > > 3451 SYSDAILY SYSTEM Holding until 24-FEB-2007 > 00:05:00.00 > On available batch queue NODE$BATCH > SUBMITted 23-FEB-2007 00:05:02.17 > /AFTER=24-FEB-2007 00:05:00.00 > > Note the "mini-CTRL+T" display for jobs that are running. I'm sure the MEM value > is still wrong. I'm using PPGCNT, but it doesn't match an actual CTRL+T display. > > Notice also that the /AFTER time is shown for jobs that are Executing, unlike > the standard SHOW ENTRY display. The procedure uses SHOW ENTRY as well as > F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_ENTRY", ...). > > P1 can be DEL, SET or SHOW (DEL and SET are obviously potentially VERY > dangerous!). > > P2 can be a list of (range(s) of) entry numbers, a single entry number (range) > or the expression Q[UEUE]=queue_name. Yes, the expression > "Q=SYS$BATCH,NODE$BATCH" is allowed (list does not require parens - F$ELEMENT() > is used looking for comma-separated items to the right of the "=" before the > next whitespace), and wild-cards in queue names are supported. (!CAUTION!) > > P3 can be /LOG (for DEL or SET), /FULL for SHOW or any qualifier supported by > the matching SET ENTRY, SHOW ENTRY to DELETE/ENTRY command (though some may not > make sense for this usage). > > Ideally, I'd like to see this functionality added to: > > SHOW > ENTRY > /EXTENDED > /QUEUE=queue_name[/BY_JOB_STATUS=value] > /[NO]CTRLT (default should be CTRLT for Executing jobs) > . > . > . > > SET > ENTRY > /QUEUE=queue_name[/BY_JOB_STATUS=value] > . > . > . > > DELETE/ENTRY=[([entry_number[,entry_number[,...]]]|QUEUE={queue_name[,queue_ name[,...]]])] > > ...with support for ranges of entry numbers (SET, SHOW and DELETE already > support lists of specific entry numbers) and selection of entries by queue name > and job status. > > Also, how 'bout letting SET ENTRY/DELETE duplicate the function of DELETE/ENTRY? > > Nothing version-specific here; so, back-porting is reasonably expectable. ;-) > > ...oh, yeah: count my hand raised, also, for RENAME/QUEUE. Bloody pain doing it > the other way! > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems > http://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:44:18 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: For God, VMS, and Spain! Message-ID: Hi, If you think you'd like to either: - a) Put a HTML/Javascript Web Browser front-end onto your existing VMS 3GL code b) Use a Java Applet for full-on GUIs with more functionality than a html Form c) A Combination of a) and b) d) Forget the browser and give me pure JAVA applications Then may I suggest that you look-up the following thread at the ITRC: - http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=1071300 Currently, the last two posts are the Reader's Digest version of what's gone on, and are well worth a read. (Date 27/28 Feb 2007). Cheers Richard Maher PS. Personally, I like the example just the way it is; no certificate requirement for Applet due to codebase, no upgrading new versions of client, no web server on VMS, no JRE on VMS, just the best, fastest and most reliable computing platform driving CornuCopiae to the masses. It just doesn't get any better than this! (AJAX? My Netbeans!) PPS. What are the chances of Alfonso waking up any time soon and realising that I'm the right arm he's been hacking off in his dreams all these years? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:59:39 -0500 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Message-ID: "UnderMine" wrote in message news:1172677904.174207.242220@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > Hi, > > I am currently updating my graphical timeline of Non-Unix operating > systems and would be interested in any additional information about > VMS releases. I am especally interested in the release and history of > VAXELN and MicroVMS as I have been unable to get reliable information > on these. > > The current information I have on VMS, OpenVMS, MicroVMS, VAXELN and > FreeVMS is here :- > http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2203 > > My graphical timeline is available here but does not currently include > all the releases mentioned above :- > http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2165 > > Thanks for your help > > Paddy > You want to look at [OpenVMS] CPU Operating System Versions and Release Dates Table & Flowchart http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/asktima/operating_systems/009B59C8-13ADE78F-1C02A1.html ------------------------------ Date: 28 Feb 2007 08:19:24 -0800 From: "UnderMine" Subject: Re: History of VMS and related operating systems Message-ID: <1172679564.461241.9990@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com> On Feb 28, 3:59 pm, "Jilly" wrote: > You want to look at [OpenVMS] CPU Operating System Versions and Release > Dates Table & Flowchart > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/asktima/operating_systems/009B59C8-... Very interesting. It is a lot clearer as far as relationships than the document I was using :- http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/os/openvms-release-history.html It also mentions Desktop-VMS I had not heard of that one before and unfortunately any search for it is swamped by desktop VMs. Thanks for the help. Paddy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:22:39 +0100 From: Albrecht Schlosser Subject: Re: INSTALL-E-NOINST64B, cannot install images with 64-bit image sections sectio Message-ID: John Reagan wrote: > Albrecht Schlosser wrote: > >> >> This fails: >> >> $ inst add XXXX:[TEST1]TEST1 /shared >> %INSTALL-E-FAIL, failed to CREATE entry for DKC301:TEST1.EXE >> -INSTALL-E-NOINST64B, cannot install images with 64-bit image sections >> $ > > 1) OpenVMS I64 has more support for code/data in 64-bit address space. > Not sure how much of this additional support went into Alpha since the > install utility and image activator are platform-specific. > > 2) Does the image have COMMON blocks in it? I'm wondering what kind of > image section does INSTALL have problems with? Code? Data? > Yes, COMMON blocks, i.e. data. Something like: ------------------------------------------- COMMON /MVECOM/ MDMVER C C 64-Bit-Adressraum C CDEC$ ATTRIBUTES ADDRESS64 :: MVECOM ------------------------------------------- and a linker option: PSECT_ATTRIBUTES = MVECOM,NOSHR,NOWRT,PAGE Thanks for this fast reply Albrecht ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:17:27 GMT From: John Reagan Subject: Re: INSTALL-E-NOINST64B, cannot install images with 64-bit image sections sectio Message-ID: Albrecht Schlosser wrote: > > Yes, COMMON blocks, i.e. data. Something like: > > ------------------------------------------- > COMMON /MVECOM/ MDMVER > C > C 64-Bit-Adressraum > C > CDEC$ ATTRIBUTES ADDRESS64 :: MVECOM > ------------------------------------------- > > and a linker option: > > PSECT_ATTRIBUTES = MVECOM,NOSHR,NOWRT,PAGE > Thanks! I've asked the INSTALL person if a newer OpenVMS Alpha would help. -- John Reagan HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:39:22 GMT From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Message-ID: "David J Dachtera" wrote in message news:45E4F22A.1498DB13@spam.comcast.net... > Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> > Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> The whole box is emulated. >> >> >> >> That is orders of magnitude larger than an emulated IDE ATA disk >> >> interface. This could be something in the structures leading back to >> >> the controller that's not quite right, or an instruction-level error, >> >> or >> >> most anything else that could conceivably be wrong with "hardware". >> >> >> >> APB has not gotten as far along as the "real" OpenVMS drivers here. >> >> APB and SYSBOOT both use APB-based drivers. Once SYSBOOT is rolling, >> >> then more advanced drivers are loaded and activated. >> > >> > What we sem to be overlooking here also is that WRITEBOOT enables the >> > PRIMARY >> > bootstrap to find APB (the SECONDARY bootstrap). However, APB can't >> > find SYSBOOT >> > (the tertiary bootstrap). >> >> APB.EXE is the primary bootstrap for OpenVMS Alpha. >> >> SYSBOOT.EXE is the secondary bootstrap. > > I start counting one layer lower: > > Boot block - Primary (WRITEBOOT "patches" it so APB can be found) > APB - Secondary > SYSBOOT - Tertiary > You can count any way you like... you will just differ in terminology from the rest of the world. The boot block isn't a bootstrap. It just tells you how to find the primary bootstrap (it isn't code, it's a pointer). APB stands for Alpha Primary Bootstrap. APB uses a primitive filesystem to lookup the secondary bootstrap - SYSBOOT. Now IPF on the other hand... VMS_LOADER is really the primary bootstrap and is located by the FW doing a FAT filesystem lookup. IPB despite it's name is a secondary bootstrap that serves the same purpose as APB. But we don't call VMS_LOADER the primary bootstrap - it is just the "glue" between the EFI firmware layer and getting to the VMS bootstrap code. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:33:33 +0100 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Is it possible to boot OpenVMS from an IDE disk on an ES40? Message-ID: <45e5cafd$0$24829$ba620dc5@nova.planet.nl> on 26-2-2007 22:17 George Cornelius wrote... [snip] > > I have moved VMS CD images via simple COPY commands. From memory, > > $ SET RMS/EXTEND=64000 ! Speeds things up by avoiding outfile fragmentation > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN DKA500: > $ COPY DKA500:DUMMYNAME CDIMAGE.BINARY > $ SET FILE CDIMAGE.BINARY /END_OF_FILE ! Use if error causes filesize = 0 > ! Could also use $ SET FILE/ATTRIB=... Indeed. This leaves you with a disk image that is MOUNTable with LD, or useable with SIMH or CHARON-xxx, even after ftp'ing it to the world outside VMS. /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:15:51 +0100 From: "Rudolf Wingert" Subject: Re: oversight or are my libraries no longer supported on VMS? Message-ID: <001e01c75b08$470eb280$994614ac@domina.fom> Hello, may be, I am blind, but I can't find all flavors of Windows too. May be = this firmware bundle is only necessary under all flavor of UNIX (do nix with UNIX) Best regards R. Wingert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 07:56:47 +0100 From: "Rudolf Wingert" Subject: Re: Questions about DoSD (Dump of System Disk) Message-ID: <001a01c75b05$9d2bb580$994614ac@domina.fom> Hello, Joseph Huber wrote: >>> DUMP_DEV can be a list of devices, as well as the DUMPFILE_DEVICE in modparams.dat, specify localdisk:,systemdisk: <<< Joseph, my problem is not to specify the list, it is the syntax of specifying the system disk. This disk is not local and I don't know, what the system knows during dump. Can I specify the system disk like SYS$SYSDEVICE: ? Or must I specify $host$phys_devnam? TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:50:54 -0500 From: "Jilly" Subject: Re: Questions about DoSD (Dump of System Disk) Message-ID: "Rudolf Wingert" wrote in message news:001a01c75b05$9d2bb580$994614ac@domina.fom... > Hello, > > Joseph Huber wrote: > >>>> > DUMP_DEV can be a list of devices, as well as the DUMPFILE_DEVICE in > modparams.dat, specify localdisk:,systemdisk: > <<< > > Joseph, my problem is not to specify the list, it is the syntax of > specifying the system disk. This disk is not local and I don't know, what > the system knows during dump. Can I specify the system disk like > SYS$SYSDEVICE: ? Or must I specify $host$phys_devnam? > > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert > DUMP_DEV must point to a local disk which is defined as a disk that can be seen from the SHOW DEVICE command at the console. So this eliminates MSCP served disks from being dump disks. The format for the device name to use in DUMP_DEV is the same as what SHOW DEVICE at the console shows. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:08:20 +0000 (UTC) From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Re: SpamAssassin Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: [...} >Question: are the bounces really a problem? Yes, they are. >If the (forged) sender does not exist, they will bounce back. The problem is with existing sender addresses. I remember a case (quite some time ago) where some spammer sent a few hundred thousand e-mails to a non-existing account at "t-online.de". They accepted all these mails, processed them and sent them back to the forged sender address, an address that existed at our site. So we got bounces from 18 hosts, all at the same time... Regards, Christoph Gartmann -- Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452 Immunbiologie Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de D-79011 Freiburg, Germany http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:05:31 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: SpamAssassin Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk >writes: > >> Not quite sure I understand the above >> is that >> >> 65 spam messages marked as spam >> 35 messages not marked as spam >> of those >> 12 messages not marked as spam are legitimate mail >> 23 messages not marked as spam are really spam > >Yes. > >> ie you have a 23% false negative rate using spamassassin with a threshold of 5 >> but a zero false positive rate. > >Yes. > >> That sounds like a pretty appalling rate of mistakes - either 5 is a >> particularly high score to set as a threshold for spamassassin so that most >> mail will get through or I'd suspect that the provider isn't keeping the >> spamassassin rules uptodate so that the spammers are getting their mail >> through. If it is the latter then things will become interesting when the >> provider next updates the rules since for a brief period therafter the >> situation may be totally reversed with few false negatives and a number of >> false positives. > >I'll have to investigate how often the rules are updated. Personally, >as long as the total amount tagges as spam is appreciable, I would >rather have a few false negatives as long as I have no false positives. > >> >My provider would send a message to the (alleged) sender if a message is >> >not relayed to me because it is suspected of being spam. Thus, a >> >legitimate sender could find out that this was a problem. (I'm not sure >> >this is a good idea. What I observe myself is that a spammer sends >> >email to a non-existent address somewhere else with my address (or a >> >non-existent address in my domain) as the forged sender. >> > The spam >> >scanner at the other end sends me (or, if the user doesn't exist, my >> >Postmaster, who is me wearing another hat) a message that there was a >> >problem. Maybe, however, the spammer really wanted to spam my addresses >> >and is using the spam filter at the other site as a spam relay. (Fine >> >point: for non-existent users, the Postmaster only gets the mail if they >> >are also syntactially invalid VMS usernames, since I drop all the rest >> >during the SMTP dialog, since this is by far the most spam I get >> >(dictionary attack). >> >> Yes this is backscatter and if your provider is accepting mail for your >> systems and then running spamassassin on it before sending a bounce then >> they are part of the spam problem not the solution. It is not acceptable >> nowadays to send a bounce to the supposed sending address after you have >> discovered a mail message is spam or contains a virus. > >Viruses he drops completely. For spam he sends a bounce, after the >message has been scanned---IF I request that this be done if the >threshold is exceeded. If not, the mail is tagged as spam but delivered >to me. > >I think the key word is "discovered". I suppose there is a small >probability that an email is mistakenly tagged as spam and thus not >delivered (if that is what I request). I don't see the logic in >distinguishing between spam and viruses, though. (Viruses might be more >certain in their identification, but if the motivation is to inform the >sender that he is doing something wrong, then why not inform him that he >is sending a virus? Of course, most senders of spam are forged, and on >VMS I don't care about viruses anyway, but that is neither here nor >there.) > Anti-virus products use virus signatures and are pretty much 100% accurate with pretty close to zero false positives when detecting viruses they know about (excepting the occasional screw-up like the March 2006 one from Mcafee). The main problem with anti-virus signatures is the time-lag between a virus being produced and the anti-virus companies publishing signatures for it. Anti-spam products use heuristics which are much more error-prone at best 98% accurate and may produce both false positives and false negatives. I'm perfectly happy to trust the accuracy of my anti-virus product and discard mail it says is infected. I'm not willing to trust any anti-spam product to the same extent. (Indeed there are some "spam" messages which because of their very nature no anti-spam product on it's own could every always correctly identify. What exactly is and isn't spam is in the eye of the recipient. For instance a mail message detailing PCs and prices may well be a piece of spam advertising on the otherhand it may be the quotation the user requested - the anti-spam software has no way of knowing.) As to letting the user know that they have sent a virus. Because most virused mail now forges the FROM address this is not only pointless but also means you are spamming an innocent third-party and falsely accusing them of sending viruses. >Opinions differ. I haven't been able to find a list of generally >accepted (by the white hats) guidelines for spam handling. If you know >of any, point me to them. If not, then even if I agree with you, the >provider can just quote another opinion. > There are numerous pages about avoiding generating bounces eg http://www.dontbouncespam.org/ http://www.spamresource.com/2007/02/backscatter-what-is-it-how-do-i-stop-it.html >Note: at the moment, everything still comes through to me; it is just >tagged as spam. I don't generate bounces except when I can't avoid it. >(I reject stuff to non-existent users, but that fails for syntactically >invalid VMS usernames, which generates a bounce, most of which bounce >back to me. There are only a few of these a day, though; there are >several hundred attempted sends to nonexistent (but syntactically valid) >usernames. > >> Some systems can >> run an anti-spam product during the SMTP dialogue and can reject the >> mail at the end of the DATA part which is acceptable. > >From the point of view of preventing backscatter, that's better. >However, the legitimate mistake is not corrected here, either. > >> There are now some >> DNSBLs which list sites which produce backscatter eg Spamcop. I >> personally think that is going too far since there are still some >> circumstances (account going overquota where the account is not on the >> receiving mailserver itself etc) which most mail systems cannot cope >> with other than by producing a bounce. > >One shouldn't confuse legitimate bounces with backscatter. Presumably, >if my provider gets into a DNSBL due to backscatter he will change his >policies, since he charges for customers (like me) to send through a >"good" server. (Technically, I can do anything locally, but I have a >dynamic IP address and many folks now just reject all of those.) > >> >> Unless your Dynamic-DNS provider has a list of all your valid email addresses >> >> then no anti-spam product it runs can determine that a message is for a >> >> non-existent account on your systems. >> > >> >True, but since no legitimate mail is sent to non-existent users, it >> >could be flagged as spam based on other grounds. >> > >> True but then you have potentially changed an SMTP dialogue rejection of an >> invalid address (assuming the connection is to your ALPHA) into a backscatter >> bounce message from your provider complaining about spam. > >As long as it is spam, that's not a problem. > >Question: are the bounces really a problem? If the (forged) sender does >not exist, they will bounce back. Presumably to an account at the >provider which accepts everything, since otherwise (assuming the >original spam is retained in the body of the message, and assuming that >the threshold is always exceeded) a vicious circle is generated with >messages bouncing back and forth. If the (forged) sender exists, then >either he wants to stop spam to himself or not. If not, no problem. If >so, then the bounce will be filtered. Not ideal, but is there really a >situation where people genuinely concerned about spam will be annoyed by >backscatter? > Sorry the problem is when the message is Spam AND the forged address is of a real person. That person then gets a mail message which often 1) Falsely accuses them of sending Spam or viruses 2) can include the spam message in the bounce In the worst case a mail account can become unusable because the spammer has used the same forged real address on all the spam he has sent and the forged address therefore receives an overwhelming number of bounces. This is less common nowadays since people are trying to stop sending such bounces but in the past it was not uncommon for a mail account to become unusable after receiving thousands of such bounces. ( JANET was particularly badly hit by this in the past. There was once a web-page describing one particular University's experience but I can't seem to find that now. However Janet still has the http://www.ja.net/cert/email/collateral.html document which makes a small reference to this in the http://www.ja.net/cert/email/collateral.html#tech-response section Also just found this SANS article on SPAM Backscatter from 2006 http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=1766 "In a few minutes 10,000 messages arrived" (now that was to a catch-all address for a domain but it does indicate the implications of bouncing to forged addresses) ) Many of the bounces will not include the full content of the spam and hence might get by a spam content scanner. You cannot generally just discard all bounces you receive since that would mean you would never know that mail you yourself sent out hadn't bounced. (Obviously once you realise you are under such an attack you might try to discard all such bounces - but that can be surprisingly difficult since the format of text used in bounce messages varies considerably). Also note that if the bounce actually includes the spam then you are in effect acting as an open-relay for the spam. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.118 ************************