INFO-VAX Sat, 24 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 166 Contents: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: Ancinet History Re: end of DLT? Belluzzo strikes again Re: ENOUGH! New site for OpenVMS books Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist error and question Progress Graphic Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Mar 2007 06:59:17 -0700 From: "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174744757.554727.326290@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> wrote in message news: 1174659409.832799.167490@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > On Mar 22, 9:59 pm, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" > wrote: > > and they only have a single class on religion and the Bible ... > and they teach "thou shalt not kill" and love your neighbor > as yourself, not blow yourself up and go to heaven and get > 20 virgins ... who is doing the crusading now? To compare > Catholic beliefs to this thinking shows how far in left field > you really are ... > Bullshit. Christian schools are run by both Catholics and protestants and they many have some coverage of all of the world's religions. Even though the protestants had a head start, they have fallen behind. Catholics have abandoned the old testament as irrelevant and only use it for historical reference. Many North American protestants easily move from the new to the old testament when ever it suits them. > > there are bad eggs in every sector ... the FEW priests being expelled > are homosexual priests who where let in with looser screening > standards in the 80s because of shortages of priests and also > pedophilles whose only reason to join was to stalk young altar > boys ... I was an altar boy as was many others and had NO > problems ... the problem is not as big as the liberal media has > made it to be ... > I've talked to people who knew about sexual problems with church pedophiles in the 1950's. (mostly Quebec and Ireland but I'm sure their are other people with first or second hand knowledge). I was convinced the problem would stop if priest were allowed to marry until the Ted Haggard incident. What liberal media? Every channel on TV + radio is filled with the same conservative war drum crap: Rush Limbaugh, Shaw Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Glen Beck, etc. > > the devil has used those few bad eggs to make everyone believe > that ALL pastors are on the take ... obviously he has succeeded > with you ... > It's so easy to blame a supernatural deity for all our problems. Right wing religious zealots like you are still backing the Bush administration's war in Iraq WHEN CHRISTIANITY IS SUPPOSED TO BE A RELIGION OF NON VIOLENCE! (love thy neighbour as thy selves, turn the other cheek, give on to Caesar that which is Caesar's (which I interpret as keep religion and politics separate), etc. etc. etc.) We have just proved to the Islamic extreemists that we are no better than they are (except we're not dumb enough to blow ourselves up for 72 virgins in heaven) Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: 24 Mar 2007 07:49:17 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174747757.354714.118310@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Mar 24, 8:59 am, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" wrote: > wrote in message news: > > 1174659409.832799.167...@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > > > On Mar 22, 9:59 pm, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" > > wrote: > > > and they only have a single class on religion and the Bible ... > > and they teach "thou shalt not kill" and love your neighbor > > as yourself, not blow yourself up and go to heaven and get > > 20 virgins ... who is doing the crusading now? To compare > > Catholic beliefs to this thinking shows how far in left field > > you really are ... > > Bullshit. Christian schools are run by both Catholics and protestants > and they many have some coverage of all of the world's religions. Even > though the protestants had a head start, they have fallen behind. > Catholics have abandoned the old testament as irrelevant and only use > it for historical reference. Many North American protestants easily > move from the new to the old testament when ever it suits them. Say what? Catholics consider the Ten Commandments irrelevant? Historical reference? History is irrelevant? [...] > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ AEF ------------------------------ Date: 24 Mar 2007 10:11:43 -0700 From: "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174756303.013194.266940@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 24, 10:49 am, "AEF" wrote: > On Mar 24, 8:59 am, "n.ri...@sympatico.ca" > [...snip...] > > > Bullshit. Christian schools are run by both Catholics and protestants > > and they many have some coverage of all of the world's religions. Even > > though the protestants had a head start, they have fallen behind. > > Catholics have abandoned the old testament as irrelevant and only use > > it for historical reference. Many North American protestants easily > > move from the new to the old testament when ever it suits them. > > Say what? Catholics consider the Ten Commandments irrelevant? > I didn't say that Catholics considered the Ten Commandment irrelevant. I did say "they consider the old testament irrelevant" but should have added that "this is in the context of teaching Christianity". For example: the old testament teaches "an eye for an eye" while the new testament teaches "turn the other cheek". Therefore new replaces old. With regards to my previous comments about Catholics vs. Protestants, I have a large number of both in my family and hear both sides of the debate all the time . When I was young we Protestants all learned about "Galileo vs. Rome", "Martin Luther vs. Rome", etc. and then assume that Protestants were/are liberal while Catholics were/are conservative. The truth of the matter is that certain aspects of Catholicism have become much more liberal. For example, they have no problem with "Darwin and Evolution" or "The Big Bang" as long as God is not excluded from the picture. (most North American protestants dismiss both theories out right). I recently read a book titled "Brother Astronomer: Adventures of a Vatican Scientist" and was shocked to learn that the Catholic church operates (6?) large astronomical observatories around the world. OK so I'm impressed with their science that doesn't mean I'll be converting any time soon; Some more accurate bible translations replace "virgin" with "young woman" and I always thought that praying to her must break one of the commandments. Just my 2 cents worth... Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 10:35:29 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Ancinet History Message-ID: <46054541.856C4EF5@spam.comcast.net> Dave Gullen wrote: > > [snip] Ancinet? Let's see... Wasn't that a vendor-proprietary, non-routable protocol used by ANCI Systems, Inc. to communication among nodes of their proprietary application system? I don't recall the Ethernet packet type, but I seem to recall it bearing some resemblance to LAT... ;-) -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 10:20:16 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: end of DLT? Belluzzo strikes again Message-ID: <460541B0.940919B9@spam.comcast.net> Michael Unger wrote: > > On 2007-03-23 02:07, "David J Dachtera" wrote: > > > [...] > > > > DLT80? Vas ist das? > > The predecessor of the DLT VS 160 ... > > It appears that DLT VS160 is an HP product name. I've only ever heard of SDLT (110/220GB), SDLT-1 (160/320GB) and successors. DLT80 is a new one on me, unless this refers to DLT-9000 (TZ89) using DLT-IV media (40/80GB). -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 24 Mar 2007 13:00:20 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: ENOUGH! Message-ID: Alex Zorrilla wrote in news:eu11280ggr@enews1.newsguy.com: > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > Hey, are you the same "Bob" who won the Ernest R. Oldham Award in 1997, > or is that another Bob? Just curious. That's another Bob, this one could perhaps be nominated for KoTM. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Mar 2007 10:10:21 -0700 From: yyyc186@hughes.net Subject: New site for OpenVMS books Message-ID: <1174756221.462378.4290@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> I don't know how many are interested in this or not, but I hired professionals to set up a site for both "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer" and "The Minimum You Need to Know About Java on OpenVMS Volume 1". http://www.theminimumyouneedtoknow.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 10:24:40 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" Message-ID: <460542B8.5ECAE8D5@spam.comcast.net> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > > In article <460329AB.8897C95F@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > >Bob Koehler wrote: > >> > >> In article <9tpbN3lkdcbw@cuebid.zko.hp.com>, brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: > >> > "Ian Miller" writes: > >> >> For the last few years at previous events (bootcamps, TUD) etc it was > >> >> always stated there was no customer demand for another version of VMS > >> >> for VAX. > >> >> > >> >> If anyone knows of demand for a new version then do let HP know, > >> > > >> > If anyone plans to "let HP know", you'd be best served by making > >> > a coherent argument why you *need* it, as opposed to why you'd *like* > >> > to have it. > >> > > >> > Leave out the bleating and vituperative dogma; that won't help your case. > >> > > >> > >> Did customers "demand" VAX-11/VMS 1.x and the 11/780, or was it > >> DEC's decision that bringing out a 32-bit replacement for the > >> PDP-11 was good for business? > >> > >> If you don't build it, they won't come. > > > >....on the other hand, a lot of stuff *WAS* built - and "they" came, only to be > >turned away by Bob "GQ" Palmer, Curly, Carly, et al. > > > >I'm told by the management of some of my OpenVMS ISVs that HP is going around > >telling them that HP-UX is the future for Itanic. > > > >I'm told by HP management that HP is going around telling OpenVMS customers that > >HP-UX is the future for Itanic. > > > They should realise that that is a self defeating strategy. Famous last words: "...should..." No one at/since DEC ever did. > I'm sure that > we are pretty typical in that we are planning on moving ALL our Unix systems > to Linux starting with our Tru64 systems. Perhaps, at some point, this will dawn on HP - perhaps after their UX business has already spun down the commode and the government has taken over OpenVMS, leaving them as just another PC/Wintel vendor, though their prominence in the printing/imaging marketplace is endangered only by their own lack of marketing/business acumen. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:37:33 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:24:40 -0800, David J Dachtera wrote: > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >> In article <460329AB.8897C95F@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera >> writes: >> >Bob Koehler wrote: >> >> >> >> In article <9tpbN3lkdcbw@cuebid.zko.hp.com>, >> brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: >> >> > "Ian Miller" writes: >> >> >> For the last few years at previous events (bootcamps, TUD) etc it >> was >> >> >> always stated there was no customer demand for another version of >> VMS >> >> >> for VAX. >> >> >> >> >> >> If anyone knows of demand for a new version then do let HP know, >> >> > >> >> > If anyone plans to "let HP know", you'd be best served by making >> >> > a coherent argument why you *need* it, as opposed to why you'd >> *like* >> >> > to have it. >> >> > >> >> > Leave out the bleating and vituperative dogma; that won't help >> your case. >> >> > >> >> >> >> Did customers "demand" VAX-11/VMS 1.x and the 11/780, or was it >> >> DEC's decision that bringing out a 32-bit replacement for the >> >> PDP-11 was good for business? >> >> >> >> If you don't build it, they won't come. >> > >> >....on the other hand, a lot of stuff *WAS* built - and "they" came, >> only to be >> >turned away by Bob "GQ" Palmer, Curly, Carly, et al. >> > >> >I'm told by the management of some of my OpenVMS ISVs that HP is going >> around >> >telling them that HP-UX is the future for Itanic. >> > >> >I'm told by HP management that HP is going around telling OpenVMS >> customers that >> >HP-UX is the future for Itanic. >> > >> They should realise that that is a self defeating strategy. > > Famous last words: "...should..." No one at/since DEC ever did. > >> I'm sure that >> we are pretty typical in that we are planning on moving ALL our Unix >> systems >> to Linux starting with our Tru64 systems. > > Perhaps, at some point, this will dawn on HP - perhaps after their UX > business > has already spun down the commode and the government has taken over > OpenVMS, > leaving them as just another PC/Wintel vendor, though their prominence > in the > printing/imaging marketplace is endangered only by their own lack of > marketing/business acumen. > Is that an option available to the government? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: 24 Mar 2007 10:08:26 -0700 From: yyyc186@hughes.net Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist error and question Message-ID: <1174756106.334509.72300@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Mar 20, 5:58 pm, Tad Winters wrote: > > I've used a torrent client that allows you to set the upload and download > rate. It seems like that would work quite nicely for you, if what you're > after is made available in that format. Bittorrent would be a bad thing. The problem isn't the speed, but the limit. I ended up using wget with a limit of 2K/second. This was still a bad solution. Every ftp download utility I've ever tried which allows throttling has the same problem. They still allocate almost all of the pipe. Things like checking email become massively delayed. What was nice about the LeechGet product was it let you set a limit per hour, then used full bandwidth to get that amount, freed the pipe, and went to sleep until the next timed get. This was the best use of the external pipe. wget says it goes to sleep, but it doesn't pass the pipe. It sits there sleeping, blocking almost everything, until it needs to use the pipe again. Many people have cable modem access so they just want fast. There are no download limits for them. The rest of us get shafted with hidden download limits. At least the feds have launched a criminal investigation into this practice now. I pulled down 8.3. It took nearly 3 days. Checking email went from a process which took seconds to a process which took over 25 minutes even when there were no new messages. Roland ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 08:33:55 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Progress Graphic Message-ID: Is there any freeware available to display the progress of, say, running backup, such as a single bar graph as is customary on PCs? ------------------------------ Date: 24 Mar 2007 11:39:59 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Message-ID: In article <2BzAH55bO6dG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > And operations folks who only need OPER and READALL so they can do > things like a backup. I believe it is much safer to give them only OPER and have a waiting Backup batch job submitted /HOLD under username SYSTEM. That job can even use REQUEST/REPLY to ask questions of the operator. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.166 ************************