INFO-VAX Mon, 26 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 170 Contents: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Re: 216 Quintillion Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Re: 216 Quintillion Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Re: 216 Trillion Lemmings Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Re: Alpha systems Re: Boot Camp Update March for Friday 23rd Re: FTPS Server for OpenVMS (Also posted to the ITRC) Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" Re: OT: 216 Billion Americans Squirrels Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part 36) Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:57:31 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: In article <1174767501.278139.181190@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, genius@marblecliff.com writes: > > as far as priests marrying, they should not as Paul stated if you > are called to service for God it is better to not marry, unless you > are burning in lust then you should marry for it is better to marry > than to burn in lust ... A married man calling for celibacy? The Apostles were 12 married Jewish men who converted to Chistianity. If we kept that standard for priests, life would be different. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:58:36 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: In article <1174829379.097751.192600@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, "n.rieck@sympatico.ca" writes: > I was shocked to learn that the Vatican still operates some large > astronomical observatories and maintains a rather large collection of > meteorittes. (Who knew?) Lots of people. I've mentioned the Vatican's work in science here in c.o.v many times. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 06:11:19 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174914678.951692.12590@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 25, 11:12 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > > So since you've brought up rapture maybe you'll tell everyone where that > word is found in the bible. > > NSR > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com you could have done that yourself if you just use any search engine and search on rapture ... here is one of many hits you would find if you really wanted to know God ... http://www.bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1117572 "Rapture is from the Latin word "rapio", which was used by Jerome, who translated the Bible from its original languages into Latin, to translate the Greek word "harpagesometha" that Paul used in I Thessalonians 4:17, which is a form of the word "harpazo" which like rapture means to be taken or seized." Courtesy of http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/...r-timeline.htm. Interestingly enough, that website takes the "post - tribulation" doctrine, and their reasoning is rather hard to rebut. Also, the folks who say that I Thessalonians 4:17, I Corinthians 15:51 - 53, and similar refer to Christ's Second Coming and/or the Final Resurrection before Final Judgment: well read Revelation 19 - 20 describing both: they don't fit. Revelation 19 - 20 and I Thessalonians 4:17/I Corinthians 15:51 - 53 obviously refer to completely separate events. 1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort [5] one another with these words. This refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ at the sound of the last (seventh trump) prior to the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ upon this earth. 1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. This refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ at the sound of the last (seventh trump) prior to the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ upon this earth. OK lets look at the scripture then. The sequence of events is very clearly laid out. Jesus Christ returns and judges the nations. We know that he returns at the seventh (last) trumpet from elsewhere in Rev. Satan is bound in the bottomless pit whilst Christ rules the earth with the martyred saints for 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years satan is loosed from his prison and goes out deceiving the nations and causing a war against Christ. The rest of the dead (those that were not resurrected at the first resurrection (last trump 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15 are resurrected AT THE END of the one thousand years and are judged in the Final Judgement, the great White throne judgement. All evildoers, those who fought against Christ at the end of the 1000 years and the devil, and death and hell are all thrown into the lake of fire and those who have done good enter into eternal life in the New Heavens and New Earth. This is all very plain and in no way contradicts of confuses with 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 06:32:36 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174915956.881757.229650@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Mar 25, 11:12 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > > So since you've brought up rapture maybe you'll tell everyone where that > word is found in the bible. here is another ... if you would search for God, you will find Him ... http://www.bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1117572 "Rapture is from the Latin word "rapio", which was used by Jerome, who translated the Bible from its original languages into Latin, to translate the Greek word "harpagesometha" that Paul used in I Thessalonians 4:17, which is a form of the word "harpazo" which like rapture means to be taken or seized." Courtesy of http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/...r-timeline.htm. Interestingly enough, that website takes the "post - tribulation" doctrine, and their reasoning is rather hard to rebut. Also, the folks who say that I Thessalonians 4:17, I Corinthians 15:51 - 53, and similar refer to Christ's Second Coming and/or the Final Resurrection before Final Judgment: well read Revelation 19 - 20 describing both: they don't fit. Revelation 19 - 20 and I Thessalonians 4:17/I Corinthians 15:51 - 53 obviously refer to completely separate events. 1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort [5] one another with these words. This refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ at the sound of the last (seventh trump) prior to the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ upon this earth. 1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. This refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ at the sound of the last (seventh trump) prior to the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ upon this earth. OK lets look at the scripture then. The sequence of events is very clearly laid out. Jesus Christ returns and judges the nations. We know that he returns at the seventh (last) trumpet from elsewhere in Rev. Satan is bound in the bottomless pit whilst Christ rules the earth with the martyred saints for 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years satan is loosed from his prison and goes out deceiving the nations and causing a war against Christ. The rest of the dead (those that were not resurrected at the first resurrection (last trump 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15 are resurrected AT THE END of the one thousand years and are judged in the Final Judgement, the great White throne judgement. All evildoers, those who fought against Christ at the end of the 1000 years and the devil, and death and hell are all thrown into the lake of fire and those who have done good enter into eternal life in the New Heavens and New Earth. This is all very plain and in no way contradicts of confuses with 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 13:50:08 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <56q1cgF29v44kU2@mid.individual.net> [Posted and mailed] In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <1174767501.278139.181190@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, genius@marblecliff.com writes: >> >> as far as priests marrying, they should not as Paul stated if you >> are called to service for God it is better to not marry, unless you >> are burning in lust then you should marry for it is better to marry >> than to burn in lust ... > > A married man calling for celibacy? The Apostles were 12 married > Jewish men who converted to Chistianity. If we kept that standard > for priests, life would be different. I am going to resist getting involved int his on c.o.v, but I thought I would reply to this one just for your edification. There is documentary proof of only one of the apostles being married. Peter. There is mention of going to his house and his wife waiting on the guests. There is no mention of others being married and some of them were likely still too young to expect it (John, Andrew for example.) It is highly unlikely that Paul was married as he comes of as quite the misogynist. :-) bill (who has studied theology at the university level and actually only lacks one class from having his degree in theology!) (who also knows better than to get involved in debates like the one going on in c.o.v. But let it suffice to say that like the dicussions about Unix, the most of the comments being made about Catholics and what the Catholic Church really believes are hogwash. If you are ever interested, ask me what the real story of the Galileo case was. :-) -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 13:57:01 GMT From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: 216 Million Americans Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part II) Message-ID: <56q1pdF29v44kU3@mid.individual.net> I appologize for this. I did not intend that message to get posted but apparently my news reader software decided to both email and post it. And for whatever reason, I can not cancel it wither. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:03:27 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: 216 Quintillion Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174921407.689497.152380@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Mar 26, 10:52 am, Doc wrote: > gen...@marblecliff.com wrote innews:1174914265.096491.48920@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > > > they put "In God we trust" on our money ... > > No, that was done by an act of Congress passed on April 22, 1864. Which > was the result of pressure from religious wingnuts like yourself. > > Once again you demonstrate that you'll listen to any old crap that you > think supports your position instead of doing some basic research. > > Just like the other cretin - the one in the Whitehouse. > > Doc. and the ten commandments used to be preached in the public schools until 1962 ... and since then look at where this nation is now ... drugs, divorce, murder, theft, rape ... this country is falling apart because it abandoed God and His principles ... ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 15:21:39 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: 216 Quintillion Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Message-ID: <56q6o3F29leo1U1@mid.individual.net> Quintillion. I like that number. Reminds me of something I heard. Seems Rumsfeld came running into the Oval Office franticly waving his arms. He yells across to President Bush, "I have real bad news, sir. A Brazilian solcier has been killed in Iraq." Bush get's this shocked look on his face and say, "My God, that's terrible," Then, after a brief pause he says, "Just how many is a Brazilian?" bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 06:04:25 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: 216 Trillion Lemmings Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Message-ID: <1174914265.096491.48920@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Mar 25, 11:37 pm, "Neil Rieck" wrote: > "JF Mezei" wrote in message > > news:983cb$460727bf$cef8887a$14691@TEKSAVVY.COM... > > > gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: > >> not imposing anything ... when you say you are protestant > >> but know or believe certain things specific to that faith, then > >> your statement becomes questionable ... > > [...snip...] > > > I do not let some priest, reverand, rabbi, immam, whatever dictate what I > > am allowed to and disallowed to think or do. I decide for myself. > > > It is OK to listen to what religious managers have to say. But it not ok > > to blindly accept their sayings as fact or accept all the lifestyle rules > > they want to impose on you. > > Good points. During the Protestant Reformation we wrestled control of our > governments away from religious leaders and vowed to never live under a > theocracy again. The American founding fathers (who were almost all amateur > scientists by the way) knew this and vowed to keep government and religion > apart. You'd never know that today after listening to Jerry Falwell and/or > Rush Limbaugh. > > NSR > > -- > Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com they kept it out alright ... it is all over the preamble and the bill of rights, they started every session of congress with prayer ... they put "In God we trust" on our money ... they said govt should not endorse any religion, but the atheist liberals and courts today have misinterpreted this and tried to force atheism on us instead and strip 200 years of God being mentioned in this country ... you do not even understand the constitution ... you Canadians government are screwed up enough as it is ... you cannot even preach againset sin there or someone sues you ... fix your own screwed up govt before you try to understand the constitution ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:41:48 -0500 From: "Island Computers, D B Turner" Subject: Re: Alpha systems Message-ID: <130ftu3ftjkr149@news.supernews.com> HP is being extremely unhelpful with getting quotes for us on ANYTHING Integrity. They have tuned their outlets to the old HP engine where they are extremely prohibitive of selling products through unlicensed or refubished channels. Even HP refurb cannot get 90% of the Integrity stuff We are wondering ourselves what to do... but to be optimistic - we have only been asked by two people (one of them a hobbyist) about iIntegrity stuff for VMS anyhow. I wonder actually how many Integrity servers have been sold in the VMS world David -- Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St Savannah GA 31404 Tel: 912 447 6622 x201 Mail: dturner-atnospam-islandco-com (You know what to do with the dashes) "Robert Deininger" wrote in message news:rdeininger-2303072317560001@dialup-4.233.149.33.dial1.manchester1.level3.net... > In article <13086tmi78u5q8f@news.supernews.com>, "Island Computers, D B > Turner" wrote: > > >Dear All > > > > > >As you are all aware, we are a refurbisher of Alpha systems and peripherals > >etc. > > > Out of curiosity, what are your plans for similar products and services in > the Integrity server line? ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 08:52:10 -0700 From: "Sue" Subject: Re: Boot Camp Update March for Friday 23rd Message-ID: <1174924330.067229.144250@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Mar 24, 9:35 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > Sue wrote: > > > Dear Newsgroup, > > > If I have not mentioned it recently, thank you for all your support, I > > really value you and enjoy it when you send me email. If you send me > > email at my HP address I am more likely to see it. By the way when > > you its NEVER a problem ;') folks always say that when they have a > > question. > > You are a priceless treasure, Sue. > > I was becoming concerned not having seen much mail from you last week. > > > I sent this out yesterday via email and wanted to post it to the > > newsgroup. > > > What I forgot to mention is the following. We are having free > > seminars the week before and may be adding another for attendees only > > this will be at the HP office (ZKO). > > > Crash Dump Analysis (5 days) Monday to Friday > > Highly recommendable. I did this last year. Rob is THE man in this arena! > > > Porting workshop Wed-Friday bring your application this is free but > > you do not get a machine > > Any chance they'd go for some major discounts - perhaps with a working person's > budget in mind? I'm sure some folks would be glad to purchase a machine out of > their own resources, provided the tab is considerably less than two-week's pay > (not more than $1800US - still a tough sell to "the administration" (one's > spouse - just put yourself in the wife's shoes)). > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systemshttp://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Pagehttp://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ Respond to the following - Any chance they'd go for some major discounts - perhaps with a working person's budget in mind? I'm sure some folks would be glad to purchase a machine out of their own resources, provided the tab is considerably less than two- week's pay (not more than $1800US - still a tough sell to "the administration" (one's spouse - just put yourself in the wife's shoes)). The goal of the porting workshop is to port code from Alpha to Integrity which is done rather well if I may boast about the team (which I do frequently). The reduced cost equipment is done by a different group with help from Intel (little trademark thing here). The porting workshop before the boot camp free for folks wanting to port code thats all not for getting equipment thats the bonus for going to the regular scheduled for fee program. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 10:02:17 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: FTPS Server for OpenVMS (Also posted to the ITRC) Message-ID: Jeremy Begg wrote on 03/22/2007 11:51:07 PM: > Hello Roger, > > > Yes, we are still in need of an FTPS Server for OpenVMS that runs > > under HP's TCPIP stack and uses HP openSSL library. We need a server > > not a client. For the client side I have found: KERMIT and CURL. My > > company may be willing to let me port one of the open source FTPs > > servers to OpenVMS; we have considered one of the following: vsftpd - > > used on red hat linux, PureFtp, or ProFTPd. Before we do this I have > > several questions: > > Here's one for you first: what is an FTPS server? Do you mean SFTP (Secure > FTP), i.e. a file transfer protocol running over an SSH session? Assuming > you really mean SFTP ... > Jeremy, There is an FTPS. It's FTP over SSL, not Secure FTP (SFTP) over SSH. I am looking for a client for FTPS on OpenVMS V7.3-1 or -2, myself. JAVA will not help me on the V7* version(s). > > > 1. Is OpenVMS engineering working on an FTPs server? I don't want to > > take on a possibly many month project if someone is already working on > > it. > > SSH, SFTP, etc are available as part of TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS (I think). > > > 2. Is there anyone out there needing an FTPS server who might want to > > share development effort. I would do the majority of the work, but it > > might be nice to have some help. > > Another commercial SSH/SFTP pacakge is "SSH for OpenVMS" from Process > Software LLC. It's a VMS port of the F-Secure SSH package. You can find > out more about it from http://www.process.com/tcpip/ssh.html > > If you don't mean SFTP then I'm afraid I can't help any further. > > Regards, > > Jeremy Begg > ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:42:35 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Message-ID: In article <46045770$0$7610$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" writes: > All industrial kitchens I have seen (some number in the double digits) are > gas. I have never heard a chef suggest that gas is anything other than the > preferred soultion. The newer convection ceramic thingy's might be an > answer though - I have neither tried them nor investigated their merits Jeff Smith used gas. Julia Child used electric. They didn't cook the same stuff the same way. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:45:40 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Message-ID: In article <8NidnXV0baqiHZnbnZ2dnUVZ_uOmnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill Todd writes: > > Costs vary depending on location. We chose gas (propane) because it > tends to be a bit cleaner to use (initial equipment cost was also lower > for us), and at the time it was at least nearly cost-competitive with > oil (cost about 3/4 as much per gallon while generating only about 2/3 > as much heat per gallon). However, price changes since then have > brought it much closer to oil's per-gallon costs - at least around here: > if we had to use a lot of it, we'd notice the difference. I'm not sure I'd be happy with a heat pump much further north. I am sure I'd be happy with a heat pump just about anywhere further south. Cost of power is one thing, the amount of time a heat pump would have to kick in backup heat, often electric resistance, is a big factor in the cost of using one. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:40:56 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Message-ID: <89Pgjrl2ohgK@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1174689678.390639.70560@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" writes: > > Hmmm. I greatly prefer gas for all stove-top cooking. You can turn it > up or down and not have to wait for it to heat up or cool off. If > you're using electric, and you find you suddenly need to turn it down > quickly, you also have to remove the pot because of all the latent > heat. And you also have immediate visual feedback as to how high it's > turned up. I never had the trouble you had with scorch rings. Have you > had this problem on different units? Some burners are much better than > others. I've had scorch rings on every gas stove I've used when I'm trying to do a cream sauce, creamy soup, or pudding. This is using pots with a fairly thick layer of copper on the bottom to distribute heat. > Oh, the other problem I have with electric burners is that they're > often too big. I see most people unnecessarily put pots on a burner > that's too big so a lot of the heat escapes around the pot. I've never > seen that problem with gas burners. And some pots are smaller than the > smallest burners, so you can't help but waste energy. I only have one pot like that. I would buy one that fits except it refuses to die. Another problem I've had with gas stoves is that they tend to warp the bottom of my pots. Then they don't make proper contact with my electric stoves. Standard electric burners work much better by conduction than by convection. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:27:39 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > I'm not sure I'd be happy with a heat pump much further north. I am > sure I'd be happy with a heat pump just about anywhere further south. My fathers heatpump had used it elec.power backup aprox 15 hours over a whole year when we checked. The rest was "pure" heatpump energy. This is mid-Sweden. Regards, Jan-Erik ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:24:25 -0400 From: Bill Todd Subject: Re: Gore brainwashing world to ban the light bulb! Message-ID: Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: > >> I certainly support the use of ground-source heat pumps - but people >> should know what amount of earth-moving they may have to get into to >> use them. > > At least here over in Sweden, it's more common to *drill* for > installation of heat pumps. Say two holes aprox 100m (300 feet) > deap is usualy enough. Very common over here, my father istalled > one of those last year, works like a charm... That's great if you've got enough flow in the aquifer (assuming you can get into one: I'm not sure that a fraction of a gallon per minute that would be sufficient for a well would suffice for heating purposes). But my impression was that the discussion here had been about running lines underground to extract heat from the soil (which doesn't depend on water flow per se, though having moist soil probably helps). - bill ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:49:47 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Not on latest Roadmap: OpenVMS VAX Version 8.x "under investigation" Message-ID: <+XefHl0LvRH2@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > Is that an option available to the government? > The government can do anything that's legal, and the government writes the laws. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:33:50 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OT: 216 Billion Americans Squirrels Are Scientifically Illiterate (Part 36) Message-ID: In article , Doc writes: > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in > news:FE13Z0zsVHZF@eisner.encompasserve.org: > >> Now, if I could have had a choice between gas, diesel, and hybrid >> on that Civic I just bought I'd have been much more likely to >> spring for the extra money for the diesel than for the hybrid. At >> least the gas model I settled for is getting 30 mph. > > I'd hope it was doing more than 30mph when you wanted. :) Oops, yes. > > As to 30 mpg, is it an automatic? I don't even know if they offer a manual as an option. Since the advent of the locking torque converter manuals generally don't have much advantage. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:27:42 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Message-ID: In article <56iv4aF29jue6U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > None of which are Unix's fault or have anything to do with any possible > shortcoming of Unix. I could easily write equally bad garbage for VMS. > The proper solution is to fix the program, not blame the OS. The solution you suggest is out of the range of reasonable cost. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:29:21 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Message-ID: In article <56ivalF29jue6U2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > If you work for who I thought you worked for, I am utterly shocked and > dismayed. And, at leasti, I know one contractor who was definitely not > responsible for those programs. :-) I know of lots of contractors who are responsible. And a lot of us who would like to fix them, but the customer can't justify the cost. And in some cases hardware which causes them, so us programmers can't fix it at any price. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:32:01 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Message-ID: In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > In article <2BzAH55bO6dG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > >> And operations folks who only need OPER and READALL so they can do >> things like a backup. > > I believe it is much safer to give them only OPER and have a waiting > Backup batch job submitted /HOLD under username SYSTEM. That job can > even use REQUEST/REPLY to ask questions of the operator. They need OPER to do the correspnding reply/to. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:30:44 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Message-ID: <05TSH7zyqdEu@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <1174688926.805259.173310@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" writes: > > VMS has been considerably improved since then. With V6.2, you can keep > on deleting, even after DELETE.EXE has been deleted! ;-) > Yeah, I never did understand what they did to get an installed file to really go away while it was in use. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 07:45:09 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >> In article <2BzAH55bO6dG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> >>> And operations folks who only need OPER and READALL so they can do >>> things like a backup. >> >> I believe it is much safer to give them only OPER and have a waiting >> Backup batch job submitted /HOLD under username SYSTEM. That job can >> even use REQUEST/REPLY to ask questions of the operator. > > They need OPER to do the correspnding reply/to. Yes, that is the point. OPER is the _only_ extra privilege needed by operations staff. And NIST 800-53 AC-5 says those people should be separate from the system managers (who need more privilege). ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 2007 13:36:27 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Willing to bet this is Windows at its best Message-ID: <56q0irF29v44kU1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <56iv4aF29jue6U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> None of which are Unix's fault or have anything to do with any possible >> shortcoming of Unix. I could easily write equally bad garbage for VMS. >> The proper solution is to fix the program, not blame the OS. > > The solution you suggest is out of the range of reasonable cost. Maybe so, but that isn't Unix's fault and what you said was: > I can't get jack done on UNIX without su to root first. Then I can > do anything, including nasty accidents. Shouldn't you have said something along the lines of, "The programs here are junk and don't work properly regardless of the OS they run on." And to think someone here thought my question about linux vs. BSD was provocative. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.170 ************************