INFO-VAX Sat, 31 Mar 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 180 Contents: DBMS (Codasyl) SNP problems Re: OSU update: soyMAIL v1.3 is now available OT: Re: 216 Trillion Lemmings Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Re: OT: Re: 216 Trillion Lemmings Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Re: OT: Re: 216 Trillion Lemmings Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Re: OT: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: OT: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: OT: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: OT: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Re: our geniuses on cov do not understand the constitution Re: our geniuses on cov do not understand the constitution Re: SYSBOOT.EXE not found with MOP boot ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 07:48:27 -0500 From: John Subject: DBMS (Codasyl) SNP problems Message-ID: <460E589B.6000107@tx.rr.com> We are running Oracle CODASYL DBMS V7.0-2 We recently encountered unexpected and explosive growth with a few snap-shot files (SNP) on a particular database. Subsequently the disk drive was filling up and was close to running out of space. This required that we shutdown the database, delete the SNP files, and restart the database. We have no idea why this would happen. Anyone have any similar experiences with this or does anyone have an idea of what is going wrong? TIA! john ------------------------------ Date: 31 Mar 2007 12:49:32 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OSU update: soyMAIL v1.3 is now available Message-ID: <5773msF25o866U1@mid.individual.net> In article <460dbf4e$0$90276$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Arne Vajhøj writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article , Paul Sture writes: >>> From October 1996: >>> >>> http://www.byte.com/art/9610/sec2/art2.htm >>> >>> '"NT and the Net" (July) provides a good overview of Microsoft's >>> strategies surrounding its Internet Information Server (IIS). The >>> discussion of the benefits of the Internet Server API (ISAPI), however, >>> failed to give credit where credit is due. The interface now known as >>> ISAPI was first developed as a proprietary interface by Process Software >>> ( http://www.process.com ) for its Purveyor Web server for Windows NT. >>> Late last year Microsoft and Process announced their collaboration on an >>> open standard -- ISAPI -- based on the Purveyor API. To both companies' >>> credit, DLLs written to the original API still function under ISAPI >>> using both Purveyor and IIS.' >> >> What, Process wants to be like DEC and sell its soul to Billy? Say >> it aint so! > > This is 1996 ! > > Apparently they wanted a slice of the huge Windows market. > > But Purveyor and IIS did not split the market 50%-50% - more > like 0.1%-99.9%. MS shipped IIS with Windows. Actually, it is at least a 3 way split with Apache inthe mix too. And While I don't have hard numbers (but I thought there was a website out there that kept them) I would be willing to bet that while the numbers for Purveyor are right at 0.1% Apache comes in at better than 20%. > > DEC/CPQ/HP is not so bad with its partners. Sure, just look at what they are doing to push VMS to ensure its continued survival and success. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 31 Mar 2007 06:23:02 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: OT: Re: 216 Trillion Lemmings Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Message-ID: <1175347382.315645.269220@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Mar 30, 7:37 am, gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: > On Mar 30, 12:18 am, JF Mezei wrote: > > > > > "Choose who you vote for carefully, remember which party supports the murdering > > of foetuses, which party support immoral gay activities, which party has the > > right moral values (etc etc)." > > > This doesn't specifically tell them who to vote for. But it tells them who to > > vote for. I have an aunt in a USA state who got brainwashed by a church into > > having strong convinctions that using cells in a test tube for research was > > murder. > > it is murder ... how can you stand for life outside the womb > but not inside? HYPOCRITE ... the republicans are ok with > stem cell research as long as we are not creating life first > then destroying it ... umbilical stem cells can be used without > creating an embryo (person) and then destroying it ... and > many scientists are finding afterbirth stem cells to be viable > where the evil kind are not ... why create and take a life > when we already have the stem cells produced from birth? Maybe because they're not the same? > How selfish to not only kill an unborn child but then to > want to harvest its cells ofr yourself ... I would rather stay > a cripple then to have a baby killed and harvested so I can > walk! Embryos are not people. Consider a husband and wife who have three kids and a couple dozen embryos. Now, for the sake of argument, suppose they are forced to choose losing either one of their kids or one of their embryos. Which do you think any sane parent would choose? Suppose either all the embryos would be destroyed vs. one of their kids being executed. They're not the same thing, are they now? Another scenario: Suppose a fireman is rescuing people from a burning building and he has the choice of saving some living, breathing children or some frozen embryos. What should he do? Please, there is no equivalence at all between the two. OK? And why do those who object to embryonic stem cell research have no problem with fertility clincs routinely destroying and or discarding excess embryos? So it's okay to destroy embryos for lack of storage facilities but not to use them for research? ... I have yet to hear a good answer to this one. So Bob, what are we to do with all the existing embryos? Save them for eternity just in case some women want to have them implanted? They don't last forever. Should we force them into the wombs of some women so they don't "die"? The vast majority of these embryos are never going to become people. OK? And there are more diseases than just being crippled: Alzheimer's, diabetes, just to name two awful diseases. These are diseases that living, breathing humans are suffering from right now -- every day. And they should suffer to save some embryos that will be eventually discarded anyway? > > This is not a religion. It is a buch of people with agendas hijacking religion > > and manipulating people. It is wrong. Very wrong. And I cannot understans > > how/why the religions allowed this to happen to them. > > yes it is ... "thou shall not kill" ... God created life and only > God has the right to take it ... when you kill or promote > killing, you are playing god ... and the job of the church is > to expose sin, not keep quiet because it makes you feel > uncomfortable ... So you shouldn't kill an animal for any reason? You shouldn't kill in self-defense? Jewish bibles translate this commandment as "Thou shalt not murder". How did that get to be "Thou shalt not kill"? > > > It means that intelligent people who can think for themselves will forever > > reject such religions which will be relegated to brainwashing lemmmings with > > their radical political agendas instead of promoting good values. > > promoting life is not a good value??????????????????? Could you be a little more vague? ;-) > > Sorry, but killing over 100,000 humans is a far greater crime against humanity > > than using cells in a test tube for research. It is VERY SCARY that some people > > wouldn't be able to see this and still vote for the party that is against the > > research of test tube cells. You missed this part, Bob. Comment, please? [...long discussion about teaching teenagers abstinence vs. sex education and sin and such snipped...] It's a difficult issue. You don't want to promote promiscuity but you don't want children to get STD's or pregnant, either. This reminds me of a political cartoon on Slate.com about abortion: And Bob, I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions about going to heaven. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 08:35:15 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: OT: Re: 216 Trillion Lemmings Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Message-ID: <07033108351521_202002DA@antinode.org> From: "AEF" > [...] Bob. Comment, please? Oh, thank you _so_ much for inviting more of this here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: 31 Mar 2007 07:21:07 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: OT: Re: 216 Trillion Lemmings Are Scientifically Literate (Part II) Message-ID: <1175350867.293643.180770@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Mar 31, 8:35 am, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: "AEF" > > > [...] Bob. Comment, please? > > Oh, thank you _so_ much for inviting more of this here. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 Er, you got a point there. Sorry, I'll try to refrain from such in the future. OTOH, it's one thing for a thread to start on topic and drift off topic. It's another to START a thread off topic! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:09:38 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: OT: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: In article <460dd1b3$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> AEF wrote: >>> On Mar 30, 9:00 pm, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> AEF wrote: >>>>> On Mar 27, 9:35 pm, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>>> AEF wrote: >>>>>>> On Mar 27, 7:09 pm, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>>>>> AEF wrote: >>>>>>>>> Pardon my ignorance, please, but why is any using Info-VAX? >>>>>>>>> Under what >>>>>>>>> situation is that better than a newsreader? Are they situations >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> one can get Info-VAX but not news (other than the HP email >>>>>>>>> device for >>>>>>>>> grandparents who don't want a real computer!) >>>>>>>> Some ISP's only email not a NNTP server. >>>>>>>> You can pay extra for a NNTP service or you can use the web >>>>>>>> interface >>>>>>>> at Google, but some may not find any of those attractive. >>>>>>> Well, I'd certainly take Google Groups over having all this stuff >>>>>>> emailed to me! What's the advantage of getting it as mail? (OK, you >>>>>>> can read it offline, but I thought those days are over, no?) >>>>>> Different people - different preferences. >>>>> No kidding. I'm still waiting to hear why anyone wants all this stuff >>>>> emailed to them. You haven't told me anything I don't already know. >>>> I just explained it to you. >>>> >>>> Some people simply prefer email over Google Groups. >>>> >>>> And it does not make more sense to continue asking for why than >>>> to ask why some people prefer blue cars over red cars. >>> >>> When there are multiple alternatives to choose from, each alternative >>> has advantages and disavantages, in general. Different advantages and >>> disadvantages are weighed differently by different people. In that >>> respect, you are correct. What I was asking was what were the >>> advantages of getting c.o.v. via email? Capice? This is not a case of >>> red vs. blue. That was a rather poor analogy. >> >> Who told that there are no subjective taste when it comes to >> email versus news readers ? > >And the blue versus red car seems perfect to illustrate that point. > >But if you want a VMS specific analogy then consider EDT versus EVE. >Some people prefer EDT some prefer EVE. And it is not just an >objective evaluation of features. > In many cases even if you do get this group via mail you can still "kill file" based on subject line. Most windows/linux programs now include filtering options. If the mail is being downloaded to a VMS or Unix system mailstore you may be able to run DELIVER or procmail on the server. Not as simple as in a newsreader - you have to edit a file - but not too difficult. Even if you haven't direct control in that manner some servers are now offering a web based interface to create SIEVE filters (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_-_mail_filtering_language ) About the only "problem" situation is when you are using POP to download from a server over which you have no control and are paying for connection time or the number of bytes transferred. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >Arne ------------------------------ Date: 31 Mar 2007 13:48:45 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <57775tF2c90o4U1@mid.individual.net> In article , Bill Todd writes: > > Sort of like not giving much weight to a customer who really wanted an > aquamarine paint job (to get back to your 'blue vs. red' analogy): he'd > have every right to that desire, but little expectation that anyone > would bother to grant it (unless he went out and paid for one to be > applied individually). When I last lived in Germany Porsche was still offering custom paint-jobs on cars orderd from dealers. Any color at all. Just bring in a sample. Anybody remember who had the Pink 911 that even the Dr. himself wouldn't drive? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 31 Mar 2007 07:16:14 -0700 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: OT: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <1175350574.738138.71370@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Mar 30, 10:13 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > > AEF wrote: > >> On Mar 30, 9:00 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >>> AEF wrote: > >>>> On Mar 27, 9:35 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >>>>> AEF wrote: > >>>>>> On Mar 27, 7:09 pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >>>>>>> AEF wrote: > >>>>>>>> Pardon my ignorance, please, but why is any using Info-VAX? > >>>>>>>> Under what > >>>>>>>> situation is that better than a newsreader? Are they situations > >>>>>>>> where > >>>>>>>> one can get Info-VAX but not news (other than the HP email > >>>>>>>> device for > >>>>>>>> grandparents who don't want a real computer!) > >>>>>>> Some ISP's only email not a NNTP server. > >>>>>>> You can pay extra for a NNTP service or you can use the web > >>>>>>> interface > >>>>>>> at Google, but some may not find any of those attractive. > >>>>>> Well, I'd certainly take Google Groups over having all this stuff > >>>>>> emailed to me! What's the advantage of getting it as mail? (OK, you > >>>>>> can read it offline, but I thought those days are over, no?) > >>>>> Different people - different preferences. > >>>> No kidding. I'm still waiting to hear why anyone wants all this stuff > >>>> emailed to them. You haven't told me anything I don't already know. > >>> I just explained it to you. > > >>> Some people simply prefer email over Google Groups. > > >>> And it does not make more sense to continue asking for why than > >>> to ask why some people prefer blue cars over red cars. > > >> When there are multiple alternatives to choose from, each alternative > >> has advantages and disavantages, in general. Different advantages and > >> disadvantages are weighed differently by different people. In that > >> respect, you are correct. What I was asking was what were the > >> advantages of getting c.o.v. via email? Capice? This is not a case of > >> red vs. blue. That was a rather poor analogy. > > > Who told that there are no subjective taste when it comes to > > email versus news readers ? OK, then what are the "perceived advantages" of email vs. news-reader for those who prefer email? Of course it's subjective, but it's subjective about *something*. One could say, "I prefer small cars because they get better mileage" while another could say, "I prefer large cars because there is more mass to protect me in a crash". One could say, "I prefer news-readers because I don't have to deal with a huge clutter of numerous emails" while another could say, "I prefer email because ....". NOW, please fill in the blank. Is it finally clear now? > > And the blue versus red car seems perfect to illustrate that point. > > But if you want a VMS specific analogy then consider EDT versus EVE. That should have been "VMS-specific". > Some people prefer EDT some prefer EVE. And it is not just an > objective evaluation of features. > > Arne Sometimes you can say "I like A because it has blah blah blah." Sometimes, as in red vs. blue, you can't. Is this a difficult concept for you? You just don't get my point. Is it really that difficult or do you just feel like picking on me? :-) AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 09:19:15 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: OT: Re: Rules of Engagement WAS: Time for C.O.V.subgroups ? Message-ID: <07033109191566_202002DA@antinode.org> From: "AEF" > OK, then what are the "perceived advantages" of email vs. news-reader > for those who prefer email? [...] I automatically keep a copy of e-mail I send from/on my VMS system. Will the news reader I use do that for my postings? (And why would I wish to learn anything new? Next thing, you'll want symbolic links in the file system.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 15:03:39 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: our geniuses on cov do not understand the constitution Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >Genius, if you do devise a VMS religion, don't borrow any of the silly >notions from any of the other major religions. >No 3 VMSs in 1. While VMS has been known as VAX/VMS, OpenVMS and just >VMS, we all know it as one VMS! Of course we can have "3 VMSs in 1"! And the VMS version is much easier to understand. Ever hear of a 3 node VMScluster? >No promises of 77 brand new VMS machines with the latest distribution, >should I die a pious follower of this OpenVMS religion. Such promises, >like the check is in the mail, I love you, and that other "well-known" >one, never seem to come to fruition. I've been faithful to VMS for 20 >plus years and I still haven't seen a single, latest state-of-the-art >VMS box roll into my basement -- let alone 77 of them. ;) I think it was only 72 of them, and no matter how much they're used, the SYSUAF will show no one has ever logged in on them :-) >No evil space lord came to Earth millions of years ago and dropped the >Micro$oft virus on us, requiring a submission to special AUDIT SERVER >sessions. Micro$oft is evil but it was begat of greed -- not ancient >space aliens (even though everything coming out of Micro$oft is quite >alien). Hah! ------------------------------ Date: 31 Mar 2007 08:34:57 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com Subject: Re: our geniuses on cov do not understand the constitution Message-ID: <1175355297.520478.219710@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> > Now, if genius wants to go off and create a religion wherein all will > worship VMS, that might be an on-topic religious discussion that would > warrant discussion here in comp.os.vms. However, until then, PUHLEEZ > keep this drivel out of comp.os.vms. http://www.joketribe.com/96/May/VAX-VMSGenesisReferenceManual.html > Genius, if you do devise a VMS religion, don't borrow any of the silly > notions from any of the other major religions. One the first day, the SysAdmin said "BOOT". And the VAX did boot. And the SysAdmin saw that it was good. > No 3 VMSs in 1. While VMS has been known as VAX/VMS, OpenVMS and just > VMS, we all know it as one VMS! The 3 being the VAX, the Alpha, and the Integrity. Yet they be of one Source Code. Praise be to the Source Code. > No promises of 77 brand new VMS machines with the latest distribution, > should I die a pious follower of this OpenVMS religion. Such promises, > like the check is in the mail, I love you, and that other "well-known" > one, never seem to come to fruition. I've been faithful to VMS for 20 > plus years and I still haven't seen a single, latest state-of-the-art > VMS box roll into my basement -- let alone 77 of them. ;) Yea verily, if you suffer the Pilgrimage to New Jersey for the Integrity Developers Workshop, thou shalt be blessed for your faithfullness. > No religious head gear! No garments, no frocks, no vestments, no beads, > no chains, no ropes, no hats, no burkas and expecially, no neck-ties!!! > No special clothing unless they're tie-dyed T-shirts and have geeky VMS > statements printed on them. Praise be to the pilgrims who adornst thine selves with Tie-dye. And Albert Ties. And L&T Propeller Beanies. And all manner of DECUS apparel. > No body part mutilations. The carpal tunnel syndrome I'm developing is > more than enough. Okay, fair enough... > No Bible, Koran, Torah, and definitely, no L. Ron books. We have the > VMS doc set! And now, a reading from the Book of Ruth. If you would turn to your IDSM... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 10:55:09 +0100 From: Jonathan Casiot Subject: Re: SYSBOOT.EXE not found with MOP boot Message-ID: <460e3002$0$8733$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net> Thanks for the response. > Jonathan Casiot wrote: >> %VMScluster-I-MSCPCONN, Connected to a MSCP server for the system >> disk, node VMS1 >> %APB-I-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYSBOOT.EXE > > Are you using DECNET or LANCP as the "MOP" provider ? (LANCP is not the > recommended option) > I'm using LANCP and a SHOW NODE outputs the following: Node Listing, volatile database: (Catchall entry): VMS2 (00-00-F8-04-E0-78): MOP DLL: Load file: APB.EXE Load root: DISK$ALPHASYS: Boot type: Alpha satellite > > Then, you should be able to: > $ dir DISK$FREEWHEEL:SYSBOOT.EXE > dir DISK$ALPHA:SYSBOOT.EXE shows the file is there... > > aka, if your boot node is on SYS0, look to see if it would be in > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SYSBOOT.EXE > and it isn't in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSEXE] so all appears to be in order. > If so, you can: > > $RENAME/LOG SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SYSBOOT.EXE - > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE] > > > You might wish to look in yor [SYS0.SYSEXE] directory for other .EXE > files that shoudl be in the common directory structure. > > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYSx.SYSCOMMON] points to the same directory as > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON] -- Jonathan [take out the TRASH to reply by e-mail] ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.180 ************************