INFO-VAX Sat, 21 Apr 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 218 Contents: Re: 64-bit: Intel Unveils New x86 Microarchitecture Re: 64-bit: Intel Unveils New x86 Microarchitecture Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? DCL Magic? Re: DCL Magic? Re: DCL Magic? Re: DCL Magic? Re: DCL Magic? Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) looking for up-to-date LaTex etc for VMS Re: looking for up-to-date LaTex etc for VMS Re: looking for up-to-date LaTex etc for VMS Re: Mysterious BUGCHECK while booting 7.3-1 on DEC2000 Re: Mysterious BUGCHECK while booting 7.3-1 on DEC2000 Re: Mysterious BUGCHECK while booting 7.3-1 on DEC2000 Re: Mysterious BUGCHECK while booting 7.3-1 on DEC2000 Re: [OpenVMS V8.3] AUTOGEN Re: [OpenVMS] GNU C current status? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:20:26 GMT From: "Michael D. Ober" Subject: Re: 64-bit: Intel Unveils New x86 Microarchitecture Message-ID: <_YpWh.7071$3P3.3265@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:8fc7a$46252491$cef8887a$16720@TEKSAVVY.COM... > Neil Rieck wrote: >> 64-bit: Intel Unveils New x86 Microarchitecture >> http://www.ddj.com/dept/64bit/198701094?cid=RSSfeed_DDJ_All > > Another recent article pointed to Intel developping 8086 architecture > chips for handhelds (replacing Arm architecture) as well as for telecom > devices (routers etc). > > Remember that the next generation 8086 will also sport that new common > system interface chipset which will allow the 8086 to scale to larger > systems. > > So while Intel expands the market for the 8086 architecture, we don't see > any movement to grow IA64 beyond HP's HPUX/VMS offerings. > The IA 64 (Itanic) architecture is deader than the Alpha. At least the lessons learned in the Alpha are showing up in mass market processors in the x86/x64 line from Intel and AMD. Mike Ober. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:57:47 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: 64-bit: Intel Unveils New x86 Microarchitecture Message-ID: <462A428B.3499C64C@spam.comcast.net> "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > > "JF Mezei" wrote in message > news:8fc7a$46252491$cef8887a$16720@TEKSAVVY.COM... > > Neil Rieck wrote: > >> 64-bit: Intel Unveils New x86 Microarchitecture > >> http://www.ddj.com/dept/64bit/198701094?cid=RSSfeed_DDJ_All > > > > Another recent article pointed to Intel developping 8086 architecture > > chips for handhelds (replacing Arm architecture) as well as for telecom > > devices (routers etc). > > > > Remember that the next generation 8086 will also sport that new common > > system interface chipset which will allow the 8086 to scale to larger > > systems. > > > > So while Intel expands the market for the 8086 architecture, we don't see > > any movement to grow IA64 beyond HP's HPUX/VMS offerings. > > > > The IA 64 (Itanic) architecture is deader than the Alpha. SSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't tell HP!! HP bet their Enterprise/OpenVMS/UX farm on Itanic. > At least the > lessons learned in the Alpha are showing up in mass market processors in the > x86/x64 line from Intel and AMD. ...but not in anything we've seen from HP. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:20:26 GMT From: "Michael D. Ober" Subject: Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Message-ID: <_YpWh.7072$3P3.6934@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:b763c$46251937$cef8887a$8658@TEKSAVVY.COM... >>> I have to ask: Why does a programming language (other than an >>> interpretive environment) need a "garbage collector"??!! > > > Not to get into a religious debate, but don't languages that do lots of > stuff behind the scenes "for you" tend to result in sloppy programming > because programmers lose some discipline ? > > To me, it seems essential that any routine that allocates memory for a > structure should have an accompanying one to deallocate that structure > (and any substructures attached to it). > > Actually, no. Many times you allocate memory but don't really know when the last reference to it is released. This happens when a routine allocates memory and then returns that memory as part of it's result. In these cases, a GC is the only way to go since it determines when the memory is no longer acessible by the program. A GC can also defragment your heap so that your program may actually uses less memory than an equivalent without a GC. Mike Ober. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:41:43 +0000 From: Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson Subject: DCL Magic? Message-ID: Hi, Does DCL have hooks that execute before running a command (after reading it) and before printing the prompt? In unix, I use zsh's precmd() and preexec() functions for this to display the current working directory and the executing command in the terminal title bar. That is, I'd like to display the current DEFAULT and NODE name in the title, as well as the currently executing ... is job the term? Johann ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:26:57 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DCL Magic? Message-ID: <00A6677F.AC0E819B@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson writes: > > >Hi, > >Does DCL have hooks that execute before running a command (after >reading it) and before printing the prompt? > >In unix, I use zsh's precmd() and preexec() functions for this to >display the current working directory and the executing command in the >terminal title bar. > >That is, I'd like to display the current DEFAULT and NODE name in the >title, as well as the currently executing ... is job the term? I have a product which will do this. You can have it put the info in the prompt (which is limited to 32 char), a 25th host writeable status line or, if a DECterm, in the title bar. Contect me if interested. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:22:25 +0000 From: Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson Subject: Re: DCL Magic? Message-ID: VAXman writes: > In article , Johann 'Myrkraverk' > Oskarsson writes: >> >> >>Hi, >> >>Does DCL have hooks that execute before running a command (after >>reading it) and before printing the prompt? >> >>In unix, I use zsh's precmd() and preexec() functions for this to >>display the current working directory and the executing command in the >>terminal title bar. >> >>That is, I'd like to display the current DEFAULT and NODE name in the >>title, as well as the currently executing ... is job the term? > > I have a product which will do this. You can have it put the info > in the prompt (which is limited to 32 char), a 25th host writeable > status line or, if a DECterm, in the title bar. > > Contect me if interested. I'm not sure. At the moment, the only VMS systems I have access to is deathrow and decus, and I'm reluctant to ask favors of the admins ;-P Johann ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:12:07 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DCL Magic? Message-ID: <00A6678E.5CBF6697@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson writes: > > >VAXman writes: > >> In article , Johann 'Myrkraverk' >> Oskarsson writes: >>> >>> >>>Hi, >>> >>>Does DCL have hooks that execute before running a command (after >>>reading it) and before printing the prompt? >>> >>>In unix, I use zsh's precmd() and preexec() functions for this to >>>display the current working directory and the executing command in the >>>terminal title bar. >>> >>>That is, I'd like to display the current DEFAULT and NODE name in the >>>title, as well as the currently executing ... is job the term? >> >> I have a product which will do this. You can have it put the info >> in the prompt (which is limited to 32 char), a 25th host writeable >> status line or, if a DECterm, in the title bar. >> >> Contect me if interested. > >I'm not sure. At the moment, the only VMS systems I have access to is >deathrow and decus, and I'm reluctant to ask favors of the admins ;-P I have a VERY busy week ahead -- Photo shoots at concert gigs tonight and on Tuesday eve and at a weekend festival next weekend. I have friends to pick up at airports this week as well coming from Denmark, Oklahoma and Boston. Remind me one week hence and I will speak to the Deathrow folks about installing this software for you. I'll gift it to Deathrow for all to use. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2007 15:20:28 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: DCL Magic? Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in news:00A6678E.5CBF6697@SendSpamHere.ORG: > In article , Johann 'Myrkraverk' > Oskarsson writes: >> >> >>VAXman writes: >> >>> In article , Johann 'Myrkraverk' >>> Oskarsson writes: >>>> >>>> >>>>Hi, >>>> >>>>Does DCL have hooks that execute before running a command (after >>>>reading it) and before printing the prompt? >>>> >>>>In unix, I use zsh's precmd() and preexec() functions for this to >>>>display the current working directory and the executing command in >>>>the terminal title bar. >>>> >>>>That is, I'd like to display the current DEFAULT and NODE name in >>>>the title, as well as the currently executing ... is job the term? >>> >>> I have a product which will do this. You can have it put the info >>> in the prompt (which is limited to 32 char), a 25th host writeable >>> status line or, if a DECterm, in the title bar. >>> >>> Contect me if interested. >> >>I'm not sure. At the moment, the only VMS systems I have access to is >>deathrow and decus, and I'm reluctant to ask favors of the admins ;-P > > I have a VERY busy week ahead -- Photo shoots at concert gigs tonight > and on Tuesday eve and at a weekend festival next weekend. I have > friends to pick up at airports this week as well coming from Denmark, > Oklahoma and Boston. Remind me one week hence and I will speak to the > Deathrow folks about installing this software for you. I'll gift it > to Deathrow for all to use. Thanks! That's most generous, be sure to give us links to any product page you have on it so we can demo and give you a little publicity in return. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:53:24 +0200 From: Dirk Munk Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: genius@marblecliff.com wrote: > On Apr 20, 5:23 pm, "P. Sture" wrote: >> In article <4629063b$1@flight>, >> "Malcolm Dunnett" wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> wrote in message >>> news:1177030383.478677.196160@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Apr 19, 8:15 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>>>> In article <1177023718.376996.258...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >>>>> gen...@marblecliff.com writes: >>>>>> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55273 >>>>> http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/mphg/mphg.htm#Scene%2011 >>>>> -- >>>>> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker >>>>> VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >>>>> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >>>> Yours was more fun than Boob's. >>> Bob's was just plain scary, beating your kid with >>> a stick is child abuse!!! >> I hadn't bothered reading more than a couple of lines until you posted >> that... >> >> "This legislation actually bans the use of 'a stick, a rod, a switch, a >> belt' ­ tools often used by responsible parents in spanking disobedient >> children," England has said on the issue. "As a parent, I am angered >> that the government is declaring my disobedient child 'a victim' and >> intervening in the raising of my children." >> >> Unbelievable! > > from Proverbs King James Version > > 13:24 "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him > chasteneth him betimes" > > 22:15 "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of > correction shall drive it far from him." > > 23:13 "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest > him with the rod, he shall not die." > > 23:14 "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul > from hell." > > 29:15 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself > bringeth his mother to shame." > > and for those who are too ignorant to know the translation, beat > means to correct ... here are the new international versions of > Proverbs ... > > 13:24 "Those who spare the rod hate their children, but those who > love them are careful to discipline them." > > 22:15 "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of > discipline will drive it far away." > > 23:13 "Do not withhold discipline from children; if you punish them > with the rod, they will not die." > > 23:14 "Punish them with the rod and save them from death." > > 29:15 "A rod and a reprimand impart wisdom, but children left to > themselves disgrace their mother." > > > Once again I can see many here are ignorant of what God has > to say ... TIME OUTS DO NOT WORK ... if you love your child, > you will correct him the way God says to ... now a swat on the > BEHIND is far different from hitting or punching them in the face! > > Even God would condem child abuse, but we have gotten away > from Gods word and again society is paying a price for it with > their children wild and out of control, and even shooting people! > > And from the words of many here, I can see they were not > disciplined and now are impolite, rude, inconsiderate ... > IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILDREN, YOU WILL CORRECT > THEM THE WAY GOD SAYS TO! > Boob, I don't know why you are so reluctant, if not to say modest, to mention other punishments as well. Didn't God tell Moses what to do as punishment for adultery? A woman who has committed this terrible crime must be stoned. A man who has committed adultery must me killed as well. I'm sure many in this newsgroup will be all to happy to help you out with everything you need to fulfill God's wishes on this matter and clean up your own ranks to start with. We will send you truckloads of stones and weapons to kill all the republican sinners in the US Congress. It's a small start, I know, and it will decimate the republican party, but it is God's wish after all. People will look up to you and say "Boob had the courage not just to speak and write about God's will, no he carried it out as well". Hail Boob, great times lie before us! ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2007 02:06:30 -0700 From: David B Sneddon Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: <1177146390.323832.101370@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Apr 21, 7:43 am, gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: [...snip...] > IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILDREN, YOU WILL CORRECT > THEM THE WAY GOD SAYS TO! Shit Boob, was that the CAPS LOCK or the Shift Key that you stumbled across? The last time this group was as entertaining was when CJL was around... The main difference is that Carl knew what he was talking about. Boob hasn't got a fucking clue about anything! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:50:45 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: <00A66772.3B351F3F@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <07042018595203_202002DA@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes: > > >From: genius@marblecliff.com > >> from Proverbs King James Version >> [...] >> IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILDREN, YOU WILL CORRECT >> THEM THE WAY GOD SAYS TO! > > As you seem to be an expert on such things, perhaps you should >consider how your God would suggest (command?) that an adult should >correct an apparent child who continues to post inappropriate religious >drool to a VMS news group. ...and god spaketh unto the bretheren of comp.os.vms and commandeth: Bob, Thou hast blastphemed the comp.os.vms newsgroup. Ye shall be remanded to Weendoze and Weendoze newsgroups for all eternity. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:28:58 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: In article <00A66772.3B351F3F@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <07042018595203_202002DA@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven > M. Schweda) writes: > > > > > >From: genius@marblecliff.com > > > >> from Proverbs King James Version > >> [...] > >> IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILDREN, YOU WILL CORRECT > >> THEM THE WAY GOD SAYS TO! > > > > As you seem to be an expert on such things, perhaps you should > >consider how your God would suggest (command?) that an adult should > >correct an apparent child who continues to post inappropriate religious > >drool to a VMS news group. > > ...and god spaketh unto the bretheren of comp.os.vms and commandeth: > > Bob, Thou hast blastphemed the comp.os.vms newsgroup. Ye shall be > remanded to Weendoze and Weendoze newsgroups for all eternity. ... and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1-10. American Standard Version Bible in Basic English King James Version -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2007 06:24:18 -0700 From: genius@marblecliff.com Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: <1177161857.979651.21040@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Apr 21, 4:53 am, Dirk Munk wrote: > gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: > > On Apr 20, 5:23 pm, "P. Sture" wrote: > >> In article <4629063b$1@flight>, > >> "Malcolm Dunnett" wrote: > > >>> wrote in message > >>>news:1177030383.478677.196160@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > >>>> On Apr 19, 8:15 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >>>>> In article <1177023718.376996.258...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > >>>>> gen...@marblecliff.com writes: > >>>>>>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=3D55273 > >>>>>http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/mphg/mphg.htm#Scene%2011 > >>>>> -- > >>>>> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > >>>>> VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > >>>>> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > >>>> Yours was more fun than Boob's. > >>> Bob's was just plain scary, beating your kid with > >>> a stick is child abuse!!! > >> I hadn't bothered reading more than a couple of lines until you posted > >> that... > > >> "This legislation actually bans the use of 'a stick, a rod, a switch, a > >> belt' =AD tools often used by responsible parents in spanking disobedi= ent > >> children," England has said on the issue. "As a parent, I am angered > >> that the government is declaring my disobedient child 'a victim' and > >> intervening in the raising of my children." > > >> Unbelievable! > > > from Proverbs King James Version > > > 13:24 "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him > > chasteneth him betimes" > > > 22:15 "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of > > correction shall drive it far from him." > > > 23:13 "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest > > him with the rod, he shall not die." > > > 23:14 "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul > > from hell." > > > 29:15 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself > > bringeth his mother to shame." > > > and for those who are too ignorant to know the translation, beat > > means to correct ... here are the new international versions of > > Proverbs ... > > > 13:24 "Those who spare the rod hate their children, but those who > > love them are careful to discipline them." > > > 22:15 "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of > > discipline will drive it far away." > > > 23:13 "Do not withhold discipline from children; if you punish them > > with the rod, they will not die." > > > 23:14 "Punish them with the rod and save them from death." > > > 29:15 "A rod and a reprimand impart wisdom, but children left to > > themselves disgrace their mother." > > > Once again I can see many here are ignorant of what God has > > to say ... TIME OUTS DO NOT WORK ... if you love your child, > > you will correct him the way God says to ... now a swat on the > > BEHIND is far different from hitting or punching them in the face! > > > Even God would condem child abuse, but we have gotten away > > from Gods word and again society is paying a price for it with > > their children wild and out of control, and even shooting people! > > > And from the words of many here, I can see they were not > > disciplined and now are impolite, rude, inconsiderate ... > > IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILDREN, YOU WILL CORRECT > > THEM THE WAY GOD SAYS TO! > > Boob, > > I don't know why you are so reluctant, if not to say modest, to mention > other punishments as well. Didn't God tell Moses what to do as > punishment for adultery? A woman who has committed this terrible crime > must be stoned. A man who has committed adultery must me killed as well. > > I'm sure many in this newsgroup will be all to happy to help you out > with everything you need to fulfill God's wishes on this matter and > clean up your own ranks to start with. We will send you truckloads of > stones and weapons to kill all the republican sinners in the US > Congress. It's a small start, I know, and it will decimate the > republican party, but it is God's wish after all. People will look up to > you and say "Boob had the courage not just to speak and write about > God's will, no he carried it out as well". Hail Boob, great times lie > before us!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - that was when God had revealed Himself to Moses and the people and made a covenant with them and they were to obey the law ... those that refused where dealt with the same way you will be if you are not saved when Christ returns or you die ... God does not tolerate sin ... the wages of sin are death ... God takes oaths seriously ... that is why it says do not swear to God to do something if you are not going to do it, just say yes or no ... Thou shalt not kill ... only God has the right to take life, unless you are protecting life ... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:24:34 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: <462A1EA2.9000005@comcast.net> VAXman- wrote: > In article <07042018595203_202002DA@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes: > >> >>From: genius@marblecliff.com >> >> >>>from Proverbs King James Version >>>[...] >>>IF YOU LOVE YOUR CHILDREN, YOU WILL CORRECT >>>THEM THE WAY GOD SAYS TO! >> >> As you seem to be an expert on such things, perhaps you should >>consider how your God would suggest (command?) that an adult should >>correct an apparent child who continues to post inappropriate religious >>drool to a VMS news group. > > > ...and god spaketh unto the bretheren of comp.os.vms and commandeth: > > Bob, Thou hast blastphemed the comp.os.vms newsgroup. Ye shall be > remanded to Weendoze and Weendoze newsgroups for all eternity. > Because you have sinned against me, you shall be stupid, submissive and say "me too" a lot for all of thine days! ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2007 09:15:36 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: <1177172136.401436.326150@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Apr 21, 9:24 am, gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: [...] > Thou shalt not kill ... only God has the right to take life, unless > you are protecting life ... That should be "Thou shalt not murder". If you can't kill, you can't have self-defense and you can't eat, and you can't walk (you might step on some bugs!). Where does your second statement come from? AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:23:38 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: looking for up-to-date LaTex etc for VMS Message-ID: I've asked about this here from time to time, but never got the answer I was hoping for. Now the time has come to ask once again and, if the response is still the same, bite the bullet and do it myself. Does anyone have an up-to-date LaTeX, Metafont etc working on VMS? There are very few site-specific things in such a distribution. In the one I have now, altogether they are a few lines in one file. Thus, if such a distribution exists, it would be easy to install it elsewhere. My current distribution started off on the VMS freeware CD and was built by Ralf Gärtner. At the time (1997 or so) there were a lot of people still running LaTeX on VMS, including many gurus. (I suspect that Lamport actually developed LaTeX on VMS; can anyone confirm this?) Is there something similar today? I used to update my LaTeX semi-regularly from CTAN, which worked OK. However, since it has now been 7 years or so since the last update, that is probably not a viable approach. If it IS a viable approach, where do I start? What files do I need and what do I need to do? Has LaTeX split up into several different directions now, what with PDF and everything? (I can generate PDF from LaTeX via DVIPS and GS now, but I think more modern software can generate--probably better--PDF files directly.) If I have to start over again, where is the best place to start and what are the pros and cons of the various options? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 17:52:12 +0300 From: Juhapekka Tolvanen Subject: Re: looking for up-to-date LaTex etc for VMS Message-ID: <87k5w56aqr.fsf@juhtolv.dyndns.org> helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > I've asked about this here from time to time, but never got the answer > I was hoping for. Now the time has come to ask once again and, if the > response is still the same, bite the bullet and do it myself. > Does anyone have an up-to-date LaTeX, Metafont etc working on VMS? If VMS has enough POSIX-compability, you may be able to compile TeX Live. -- Juhapekka "naula" Tolvanen * http colon slash slash iki dot fi slash juhtolv "Du hast mich gefragt, und ich hab nichts gesagt. Willst du bis der Tod euch scheidet treu ihr sein für alle Tage? Nein. Nein. Willst du bis zum Tod der Scheide sie lieben auch in schlechten Tagen? Nein. Nein." Rammstein ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2007 10:27:53 -0500 From: wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) Subject: Re: looking for up-to-date LaTex etc for VMS Message-ID: <39kpbVlolKc1@eisner.encompasserve.org> Keywords: LaTex VMS OpenVMS GNV [followups set to comp.os.vms] In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > I've asked about this here from time to time, but never got the answer I > was hoping for. Now the time has come to ask once again and, if the > response is still the same, bite the bullet and do it myself. > > Does anyone have an up-to-date LaTeX, Metafont etc working on VMS? > I used to update my LaTeX semi-regularly from CTAN, which worked OK. > However, since it has now been 7 years or so since the last update, that > is probably not a viable approach. I would recommend trying that first just to see what happens. > If it IS a viable approach, where do I start? What files do I need and > what do I need to do? If you need to start over, I would recommend that you go to the public ftp site at encompasserve.org and look at the GNV directory there. Install the latest GNV from HP, and then look at the patch zip file and select what updates that you need. (The binaries are for 8.2 or higher Alpha) Those updates will also bring the earlier GNV designed for 8.2 pretty close to the functionality needed. If the build procedure needs Perl, then first visit the Open Office on OpenVMS site. There you will find instructions for making Perl, Python, and Java play better in the GNV environment. You may need to use the variant perl known as "blead" for best results. Blead perl is only available in source form, and I am not sure if it is available in a tarball. I get my copy of the source using rsync. In the encompasserve.org FTP gnv site, there are several kits that have been ported to VMS using GNV, usually using the same build procedures as on LINUX, and usually with out editing the source code. Some helper gnv$* files were added, and some DCL was added. See the release notes. You may need to insert a current copy of config.guess. Many are out of date. For some reason the last change that added the I64 platform for VMS changed the vendor from HP to the now non-existant DEC. I tried to submit a patch to put the HP back as the vendor, however that site is claiming that my un-munged e-mail address is invalid and refusing to let me register. The last I looked, the patch was visible, but no action was being taken. If you can get a hold of the .ZIP file from my presentation at last years VMS boot camp, it will provide you with lots of hints and help. Yes, GNV still has some warts, however it is now up to the task of running many configure scripts. I have not looked at LaTeX to see if it uses Configure. Unfortuantely Configure tests are usually testing the default behavior of the LIBC, syscalls, or library entry points on a system, not the behavior of a program using ANSI or X/Open compliant header files. Therefore on systems that provide backwards binary compatibility (like VMS) for programs dependent on what is now considered broken behavior, Configure scripts will generate the wrong answers. The GNV$conftest.* files are used by the CC and LD programs in GNV to modify these tests to get the correct answer. On VMS, if you do not use header files, you get the oldest entry point for a routine. If it turns out that to get ANSI or X/Open behavior, an incompatible change must be made, many times a new entry point will be generated with a slightly different symbol name. The header files will cause the compiler to use the new symbol name unless a backwards compatibility #define is used. (Sometimes it is the reverse, the new feature/entry point requires a #define to make it visible to a program.) This may be true on other platforms, which means that Configure may not be producing optimal results on them. Only careful inspection of the log that configure generates, and the config.h file will show this. Because the VMS LIBC equivalent does not have many of the fallback routines, this issue with configure is more visible. I do not understand why Configure does not try the ANSI/X-Open test for a routine first, and then only do the "default" tests last if the ANSI/X-Open test. It seems that it would shorten the run time of Configure and make it more accurate. Current versions of Configure are now doing a test to see if a header file work, and then following it up (regardless if it succeeds or fails) with an almost identical test to see if the header exists. Why? If the previous test succeeds, then we know the header exists. If the previous test fails, then for the purpose of building the program, we do not care if the header file exists, and the output logged from the previous test is sufficient to determine where the problem is. From what I can see, these additional tests that provide no new information are taking up at least 1/3 of the time for running configure. > Has LaTeX split up into several different directions now, what with PDF > and everything? (I can generate PDF from LaTeX via DVIPS and GS now, > but I think more modern software can generate--probably better--PDF > files directly.) If I have to start over again, where is the best place > to start and what are the pros and cons of the various options? If you can get a GNV based build to run, you will have less maintenance issues in the future. And it also may allow you to build pre-release kits, so that you can release a VMS variant at the same time as other platforms instead of playing catch-up. If the older VMS build procedure still works, you can be up and running the fastest. A GNV based build may have more features enabled. A VMS based build procedure may work on VAX. In either case you will need to look for things that may need VMS specific tweaks. You may also need to remove VMS specific tweaks that are now obsolete, or may have never been needed. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2007 04:14:46 -0700 From: Rambo Subject: Re: Mysterious BUGCHECK while booting 7.3-1 on DEC2000 Message-ID: <1177154086.908849.218370@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> > Well, first you need to look at the crash dump. Try SHOW CRASH for > starters. SHO STACK. SHO CALL/SUMM. I copied and wrote all to file, if anyone cares to decipher it :)... http://rambo.id.uw.edu.pl/dump ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:09:17 -0400 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Mysterious BUGCHECK while booting 7.3-1 on DEC2000 Message-ID: "Rambo" wrote in message news:1177154086.908849.218370@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... >> Well, first you need to look at the crash dump. Try SHOW CRASH for >> starters. SHO STACK. SHO CALL/SUMM. > > I copied and wrote all to file, if anyone cares to decipher it :)... > http://rambo.id.uw.edu.pl/dump > Well, I can tell you what happened, but can only speculate on why. The crash occured in the interrupt dispatch code trying to service a console interrupt. A critical data structure - the sysgen configuration datablock (SYSG) pointer in OPA$AR_CRB is not filled in. So the system crashed when it fetched a zero pointer and then tried to access the structure. The cell is filled in by OPDRIVER during initialization, and I'm going to take a wild guess as to what happened... On the Jensen, the firmware wasn't written by the guys in Marlboro, it was written by guys in England. Depending on how the console is set, it creates a structure in the HWRPB called the CTB (console terminal block). A system with workstation capabilities uses a WORKSTATION CTB type, a system with just a serial line uses a TERMINAL type. Originally, the thought was that depending on the way the console was setup, you would get different types - and that is how it works on the Laser and Jensen systems. But later on, the FW folks decided that they would always use the WORKSTATION type and simply set the "alternate console" bit to tell the system to use the serial port. But in some of the early systems you would get different types. The downside to this was that on the Jensen in particular - is you set the console to serial - graphics would not work at all - because the mouse & keyboard would not be configured. Now, there is another type of CTB - "GRAPHIC" (well, there are a couple others - but we would have halted if we saw them) - which I don't know the circumstances of why it might be used at all - perhaps if there was no mouse (or no keyboard) or some other funky decision by the FW... I think that the CTB was set to something other than workstation or terminal (i.e. graphic) and the cell was not filled in - and when the first interrupt came in.... poof I would replace the unsupported S3 928 with a "supported" card. A Compaq QVISION for example - which is what the system originally shipped with. Note: V7.3-1 is no longer supported. I'm not even sure that the Jensen is still supported. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:18:32 -0700 From: John DeRosa Subject: Re: Mysterious BUGCHECK while booting 7.3-1 on DEC2000 Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:09:17 -0400, "FredK" wrote: >On the Jensen, the firmware wasn't written by the guys in Marlboro, it was >written by guys in England. Not correct, and not complete... The SRM console was written by the engineering team in Ayr, Scotland. Calling them "guys in England" is fighting words. :-) The ARC firmware (a.k.a. NT firmware or NT console) originated in the source code for the ARC console on a MIPS workstation written by Microsoft engineers, and then ported to the Jensen by the engineering team in DECwest, Bellevue, WA, USA. John ------------------------------ Date: 21 Apr 2007 10:07:16 -0700 From: Rambo Subject: Re: Mysterious BUGCHECK while booting 7.3-1 on DEC2000 Message-ID: <1177175236.046518.189840@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> > Well, I can tell you what happened, but can only speculate on why. > > The crash occured in the interrupt dispatch code trying to service a console > interrupt. A critical data structure - the sysgen configuration datablock > (SYSG) pointer in OPA$AR_CRB is not filled in. So the system crashed when > it fetched a zero pointer and then tried to access the structure. > The cell is filled in by OPDRIVER during initialization, and I'm going to > take a wild guess as to what happened... Makes sense: i did run AUTOGEN when the unsupported S3 card was inside (see my Mozilla memory post) and maybe that messed up OPADRIVER state. The catch is, that Jensen works only when I throw out the graphics, and crashes when I put one back (ironically, it was working perfectly well with that one before I tried S3). > I would replace the unsupported S3 928 with a "supported" card. A Compaq > QVISION for example - which is what the system originally shipped with. Yep, a 1024/E is coming my way, will try to run and fix it. > Note: V7.3-1 is no longer supported. I'm not even sure that the Jensen is > still supported. It's not, 7.3-1 was the last to support it officially- although few folks encourage me to go and try running 8.3 and see what happens... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:30:12 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V8.3] AUTOGEN Message-ID: In article , rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) wrote: > In article , "P. > Sture" wrote: > > >In article <4628d393$1@news.langstoeger.at>, > > peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) wrote: > > > >> In OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 there was/is an annoyance with running AUTOGEN > >> bringing a > >> > >> ****************** > >> %AUTOGEN-W-REPORT, please read AUTOGEN warnings in > >> SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT > >> ****************** > >> > >> in addition to a > >> > >> %AUTOGEN-I-REPORT, AUTOGEN has produced some informational messages which > >> have been stored in the file SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT. You may > >> wich to review the information in that file > >> > >> while in the said SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT there is only a ** Note ** > >> but no warning at all. > >> > >> Does anyone know if OpenVMS V8.3 has this fixed already? > >> > >> TIA > > > >No. A brief look at AUTOGEN.COM shows that something like: > > > >-------- > >The following concerns were detected within MODPARAMS.DAT > > > >** Note ** - Multiple MIN values found for MIN_GBLSECTIONS. > > Using MODPARAMS value (1000) which is superseding VMS value (600) > >-------- > > > >will define the logical name agen$warning_message as 1, and trigger the > >%AUTOGEN-W-REPORT message. > > There's been an ongoing effort to stamp out these spurious messages. If > some have crept back in, they are bugs and should be fixed. IOW those on a support contract who experience these problems should be reporting them through the proper channels. -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:15:15 -0500 From: Hunter Goatley Subject: Re: [OpenVMS] GNU C current status? Message-ID: John E. Malmberg wrote: > The progis copy dissapeared, and I have not seen any posts from the person > maintaining the VMS port for a while. > > I think that Richard Levitte had a backup of the progis site before the stuff > went away. > I don't know if Richard did or not, but I have one: ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/gcc-for-alpha/ http://www.tmk.com/ftp/VMS-FREEWARE/GCC-FOR-ALPHA/ It's been sitting there since 1998, and I have no idea if it actually works or not. -- Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ PreciseMail Anti-Spam Gateway for OpenVMS, Tru64, Solaris, & Linux goathunter@goatley.com http://www.goatley.com/hunter/ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.218 ************************