INFO-VAX Tue, 05 Jun 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 306 Contents: Re: Can't connect to OPA0 on XP1000 Re: Can't connect to OPA0 on XP1000 RE: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Re: IDX (was:Re: Is this OT or is there a connection with VMS?) Re: Paging and process state Re: Paging and process state Re: Paging and process state Re: Paging and process state Re: PCSI, disk space, UNDO, unseen dangers etc Re: PCSI, disk space, UNDO, unseen dangers etc Re: SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL and ERRLOG.SYS Re: SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL and ERRLOG.SYS Re: Story Time RE: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time RE: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time RE: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Story Time Re: Upgrade to Vista from XP ? Yes or No Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:27:15 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Uusim=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Can't connect to OPA0 on XP1000 Message-ID: <46657239$0$8382$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> You have checked, of course, that the SRM setting "console" is configured for "serial" and not "graphics"? Tom Linden wrote: > I normally connect from a W2K box through hyperterm to OPA0 > (the top connector) but am not getting a response. > > Is something missing from my settings? I have the console > set to serial. Hyperterm is set to 9600-8-N-1 > > Terminal: _OPA0: Device_Type: Unknown Owner: No Owner > > Input: 9600 LFfill: 0 Width: 80 Parity: None > Output: 9600 CRfill: 0 Page: 24 > > Terminal Characteristics: > Interactive Echo Type_ahead No Escape > No Hostsync TTsync Lowercase No Tab > Wrap Scope No Remote No Eightbit > Broadcast No Readsync No Form Fulldup > No Modem No Local_echo No Autobaud No Hangup > No Brdcstmbx No DMA No Altypeahd Set_speed > No Commsync Line Editing Overstrike editing No Fallback > No Dialup No Secure server No Disconnect No Pasthru > No Syspassword No SIXEL Graphics No Soft Characters No Printer Port > Numeric Keypad No ANSI_CRT No Regis No Block_mode > No Advanced_video No Edit_mode No DEC_CRT No DEC_CRT2 > No DEC_CRT3 No DEC_CRT4 No DEC_CRT5 No Ansi_Color > VMS Style Input > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:40:51 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Can't connect to OPA0 on XP1000 Message-ID: <00A68AEE.D526EF7A@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <46657239$0$8382$9b536df3@news.fv.fi>, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Uusim=E4ki?= writes: > > > >You have checked, of course, that the SRM setting "console" is >configured for "serial" and not "graphics"? That, of course, is a good suggestion. However, if that port is not set to be the console, in most cases it becomes a TTAn: port when VMS is up and running. I would have expected him to get a login prompt if that be the case. I offered a couple of quick tests to determine if the port on both plat- forms were fucntional. I have a toolbox full of test equipment and would grab my breakout box; however, in lieu of a breakout box, much can be ac- complished with a paperclip. ;) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 07:25:21 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] > Sent: June 4, 2007 8:05 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > > - there is a huge, huge glut of available CPU cycles in almost all > med > > to large Cust environments. Hence, discussions with CIO's on newer > and > > faster boxes which will further increase this glut are not likely > going > > to meet with much enthusiasm. Number one target (by far - likely in > 70% > > range) for server consolidation initiatives is Wintel x86 > environments. >=20 > You mention this over and over again. >=20 > But the customers still prefer quad 3 GHz Xeon's. >=20 Very few are med-large Cust's are replacing their current servers on a = one for one green fielding like they used to in the good old days. They can no longer justify 10-20% utilization (or less) in peak times. = And replacing their 3-4 year old 2GHz server that has 15% peak time = utilization with something much faster (even if the new server is = cheaper than the old one) on a one for one basis no longer makes any = financial sense. Doing so would drive that new servers to something like = 5-8% utilization - how much sense does that make to a CIO? Especially when you consider heat, cooling and DC space challenges = facing these med-large Cust's. I have been in some very large well known = companies DC's where they have told the BU's "Sure, we can install that = new server you want. Just tell us which 1 or 2 servers you want us to = turn off!". Hence, this is why virtualization (OS stacking, App stacking etc) is = such a big deal with so many Cust's today. =20 [snip...] Hence, the good old days of App dept's and BU's wanting their own = dedicated server for each of their applications is rapidly coming to an = end.=20 The new model is not a return to one big server, but it certainly is a = return to something much more centralized with strategies focussed on = keeping in close contact with the BU and end users (which was a big = failing of the mainframe days). Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 12:32:22 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: <5cl3emF2v760eU1@mid.individual.net> In article , Michael Kraemer writes: > > VMS has/had problems of its own. > But one can question whether Alpha was such a brilliant move. > DEC could have spent their money on speed bumps for the VAX > and satisfied the Unix crowd with an improved Ultrix on Mips. I was one of those MIPS Ultrix users. No, we could not have been satisfied with "an improved Ultrix on Mips". Why do you think to this day I still run Ultrix on VAX and there is not a MIPS box to be seen in my extensive stable? Oh yeah, I ran MIPS in SGI's as well. Wasn't happy with that one either although I do have to admit to having one SGI left in my collection, but I haven't done anything with it in ages and I keep it more as a curiosity than as a seriously usable system. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 08:08:51 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: In article , Dirk Munk writes: > > When HP took over Compaq, HP management should have taken a very brave > decision. They should have known at that time that IA64 wasn't quite the > success that had hoped for. They should have noticed that in reality it > was a HP only CPU, and no one else was using it in any meaningful > numbers. Obviously that had (and still have) a very big dilemma. The > IA64 is the only future for HP-UX. The future prospects of IA64 and > HP-UX are irrefrangible connected. What they should have done is to > resurrect the Alpha, and use Tru64 as the base for a new HP-UX V12. > After all, many consider Tru64 as the best Unix ever designed, and with > a little rebadging trick, adding some 'old' HP-UX stuff, and a few > cosmetic changes, they would have had the perfect Unix on the perfect CPU. > While I think you're mostly pipe-dreaming out loud, I do think that porting HP-UX to Alpha (running in big-endian mode) would be a viable alternative to rebading Tru64 as HP-UX. I personnaly would prefer Tru64 over HP-UX, but to HP it could have been a viable option. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 13:35:04 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: <5cl748F31193mU1@mid.individual.net> In article <9MirT8mfS69r@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , Dirk Munk writes: >> >> Porting OpenVMS to any other CPU would send out the message that HP no >> longer believes in the future of IA64. That in turn means that HP-UX has >> no future, since porting HP-UX to another CPU would be far more >> difficult. > > That reads as if you feel HP-UX is no less portable than VMS. VMS > has run on VAX, Alpha, and IA-64. HP-UX has run on 68K, HPARC, and > IA-64. > > Since HP-UX is a SVID look and feel built on a BSD kernel I suspect > it's almost all C and failry portable. The only advantage I see in > porting VMS to another CPU over porting HP-UX is the little-endian > addressing of the current industry standard CPU. Not something a lot > of UNIX have had trouble with. Yeah, how hard could it be to pull an OSX and just layer all the crap that makes HPUX look unique on top of one of the BSD Kernels that are out there for the taking. And without all that GNU Public Virus baggage. Moving HPUX would likely be trivial. Now, moving VMS, without the engineers that made it what it is today, there's a challenge. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 07:56:48 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: <1181055408.545551.217910@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On 5 Jun, 00:21, Dirk Munk wrote: > P. Sture wrote: > > In article , > > Dirk Munk wrote: > > >> We all agree that HP has maneuvered itself in a cul de sac with the > >> IA64. If you want to look for a way out, you have to look for a way out > >> for HP-UX. With some luck, HP will allow OpenVMS to use the same way > >> out. Sad but true I'm afraid. > > > It is a strange twist of fate that VMS should become dependent on the > > future success of HP-UX. > > You're right Paul, but that is the case in my view. > > Let's see what the others wrote about the future of HP-UX. > > Move it to Linux running on x86-64. Nice idea, but do HP-UX customers > want that? And where are the big multi-CPU servers based on x86-64? Is > it possible to build such servers for a multi purpose OS? And what kind > of x86-64, AMD or Intel? And what is the future of x86? > > I think Intel was right when they wanted to replace the x86 with IA64. > They wanted to start all over again, just like Digital did when they > went from Vax to Alpha (even if there were masks for much faster VAX > CPUs). The difference is that Alpha was a success. Many regarded the > Alpha as one of the finest CPUs around. The EV9 design was seen as > revolutionary. In contrast the IA64 design was never seen as promising > by many, and it never took off. So in my view they took the right > decision, but the product turned out to be wrong. > > Why are we happy with x86-64? Because it can run M$ junk, and quite fast > too. That is until Mr. Gates produces a new OS that basically does the > same as the previous version, but so much more complex (spaghetti > programming) that it consumes all the extra CPU power. Is x86-64 a > superior architecture? No, absolutely not. It still contains a lot of > junk from previous x86 designs. > > And are we really happy with the biodiversity in CPU architectures that > we are left with now? Sparc, PowerPC and x86-64 (assuming IA64 does not > survive). Only the first two can be found in big servers now, and there > is no real proof that x86-64 can be used in big servers. Some attempts > have been made, but no one bought these servers. And I have no idea how > much stretch there still is in x86-64. > > And what about Sparc? I'm quite familiar with Sparc systems, and I'm > sure no one buys a Sparc system because of its superior design. For > instance there was a time (not so long ago) that a Sun E2900 system was > equipped with 12 CPUs, 96GB RAM, and that it had one(!!) 66MHz 64bit PCI > slot, and five or so 33MHz 64bit PCI slots. That has changed now, but > one wonders who buys such a system for normal commercial production. HP > systems had a far better IO architecture. > The E2900 > PowerPC seems to be the most promising, but only IBM has servers based > on PowerPC. > > Getting back to HP-UX, what to do with it? If customers want Linux > instead of HP-UX they could change now. Are there Linux "Superdomes"? I > doubt it. Is it possible to port HP-UX to something else as PA-Risc or > IA64? I doubt it, given the fact that IA64 was designed with HP-UX in > mind. HP_UX seems to be a rather monolithic lump of Unix, not easy to > port at all. HP wanted to use Tru64 features in HP-UX, but did not > succeed. Tru64, the only unix that was deigned to be 64 bit from the > beginning. Tru64, modular not monolithic. Tru64, considered to be the > best unix ever designed. Tru64, the unix that runs on Alpha. Rebadge it > to HP-UX V12, and run it on new alphas (EV8, EV9) That could be the way > out for HP-UX, it would solve the IA64 dead end problem, and it would > solve the OpenVMS problem. And it would add to biodiversity of the CPU > architectures. It will not happen, but in my view it is the best way out. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 08:17:24 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: Re: HP wasting millions of dollars on itanium! Message-ID: <1181056644.999924.191720@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On 5 Jun, 00:21, Dirk Munk wrote: > P. Sture wrote: > > In article , > > Dirk Munk wrote: > > >> We all agree that HP has maneuvered itself in a cul de sac with the > >> IA64. If you want to look for a way out, you have to look for a way out > >> for HP-UX. With some luck, HP will allow OpenVMS to use the same way > >> out. Sad but true I'm afraid. > > > It is a strange twist of fate that VMS should become dependent on the > > future success of HP-UX. > > You're right Paul, but that is the case in my view. > > Let's see what the others wrote about the future of HP-UX. > > Move it to Linux running on x86-64. Nice idea, but do HP-UX customers > want that? And where are the big multi-CPU servers based on x86-64? Is > it possible to build such servers for a multi purpose OS? And what kind > of x86-64, AMD or Intel? And what is the future of x86? > > I think Intel was right when they wanted to replace the x86 with IA64. > They wanted to start all over again, just like Digital did when they > went from Vax to Alpha (even if there were masks for much faster VAX > CPUs). The difference is that Alpha was a success. Many regarded the > Alpha as one of the finest CPUs around. The EV9 design was seen as > revolutionary. In contrast the IA64 design was never seen as promising > by many, and it never took off. So in my view they took the right > decision, but the product turned out to be wrong. > > Why are we happy with x86-64? Because it can run M$ junk, and quite fast > too. That is until Mr. Gates produces a new OS that basically does the > same as the previous version, but so much more complex (spaghetti > programming) that it consumes all the extra CPU power. Is x86-64 a > superior architecture? No, absolutely not. It still contains a lot of > junk from previous x86 designs. > > And are we really happy with the biodiversity in CPU architectures that > we are left with now? Sparc, PowerPC and x86-64 (assuming IA64 does not > survive). Only the first two can be found in big servers now, and there > is no real proof that x86-64 can be used in big servers. Some attempts > have been made, but no one bought these servers. And I have no idea how > much stretch there still is in x86-64. > > And what about Sparc? I'm quite familiar with Sparc systems, and I'm > sure no one buys a Sparc system because of its superior design. For > instance there was a time (not so long ago) that a Sun E2900 system was > equipped with 12 CPUs, 96GB RAM, and that it had one(!!) 66MHz 64bit PCI > slot, and five or so 33MHz 64bit PCI slots. That has changed now, but > one wonders who buys such a system for normal commercial production. HP > systems had a far better IO architecture. > Using the E2900 as an example actually tends to disprove your point about SPARC rather than reinforce it. The E2900 was designed specifically for for compute intensive workloads so the lack of I/O was deliberate and was to reduce cost and save space. If you wanted the same compute resource with more I/O then you should have bought the E4900 which has roughly 3x the I/O bandwidth of the E2900 but which costed more and which also took up more space. The E2900 and the E4900 are older systems, the new M5000 for example supports 16 cores and 80 PCI-E slots which should be enough I/O. At the low end the T2000's using Niagara 1 seem to be popular with our customers and they have all shown a lot of interest in the T2000 replacement based on Niagara 2. > PowerPC seems to be the most promising, but only IBM has servers based > on PowerPC. > > Getting back to HP-UX, what to do with it? If customers want Linux > instead of HP-UX they could change now. Are there Linux "Superdomes"? I > doubt it. Is it possible to port HP-UX to something else as PA-Risc or > IA64? I doubt it, given the fact that IA64 was designed with HP-UX in > mind. HP_UX seems to be a rather monolithic lump of Unix, not easy to > port at all. HP wanted to use Tru64 features in HP-UX, but did not > succeed. Tru64, the only unix that was deigned to be 64 bit from the > beginning. Tru64, modular not monolithic. Tru64, considered to be the > best unix ever designed. Tru64, the unix that runs on Alpha. Rebadge it > to HP-UX V12, and run it on new alphas (EV8, EV9) That could be the way > out for HP-UX, it would solve the IA64 dead end problem, and it would > solve the OpenVMS problem. And it would add to biodiversity of the CPU > architectures. It will not happen, but in my view it is the best way out. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 08:40:45 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: IDX (was:Re: Is this OT or is there a connection with VMS?) Message-ID: In article , bradhamilton@comcast.net (Brad Hamilton) writes: > If one goes to the GE Healthcare website, and types, "VMS" in the search box, > the stark answer, "No results found" is returned. So what? There are a lot of thingds you won't find on websites. Web sites are not all-encompassing authoratative documents. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 08:23:32 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Paging and process state Message-ID: In article <2b0c5$466490e0$cef8887a$32333@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei wrote: > P. Sture wrote: > >> Do you mean Heisenburg? > > > > This internet thingy isn't very reliable as to the correct spelling, but > > the following looks right to me: > > > I apologize... My first language is not English. Oui, je le sais mon ami. > (heck, if a guy with an english name like "Dan Foster" can claim that > excuse, then Shirley, a guy with a name like Jean-François Mezei can > claim it too :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Spare a thought for someone whose surname nobody can pronounce or spell properly. :-) -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 08:43:45 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Paging and process state Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > > What good is the SHOW PROC/CONT's "State" if the mere act of looking at > its state changes it ? It's telling you the truth. You go ahead and design an OS where looking at a process doesn't alter its state. Don't expect nme to buy it. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 08:53:01 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Paging and process state Message-ID: In article , Dan Foster writes: > In article <1180796049.348259.12720@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, IanMiller wrote: >> by looking at the process you may be altering its state. > > How so? One could avoid calling $GETJPI in a way that could cause an > inswap -- by specifying JPI$M_NO_TARGET_INSWAP. Since swapping was never mentioned I'd think that flag would have no relavence. VMS gets most process information by queuing an AST to that process. AST execution requires that the process become COM. Getting to and from COM has side affects even if the process state can be picked up when it's not COM. I've seen mozilla thrash between HIB and COM, too. Usually increasing it working set in the meantime. Some of this has to do with the way mozilla was ported to VMS, there's a polling loop to deal with socket code that can do select() and other wait states that can't be handled in such a UNIX-like manner. Mozilla will alternate between HIB and COM just because of this. It's very hard in most cases to see all the memory management related states that a process can go through while its running because the states tend to last for a very short time unless something goes wrong. Watching fault counts and working set size is a much more reliable way to get some indication of what memory management is up to. I do see PFW on vary rare occasion, but I don't count on it. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 08:54:45 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Paging and process state Message-ID: In article <2b0c5$466490e0$cef8887a$32333@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > P. Sture wrote: >>> Do you mean Heisenburg? >> >> This internet thingy isn't very reliable as to the correct spelling, but >> the following looks right to me: > > > I apologize... My first language is not English. > (heck, if a guy with an english name like "Dan Foster" can claim that > excuse, then Shirley, a guy with a name like Jean-François Mezei can > claim it too :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Heisenburg is English now? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:18:56 -0800 From: glen herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: PCSI, disk space, UNDO, unseen dangers etc Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >>Isn't renaming directories officially unsupported, though? :-) > Not on any version of VMS that I've ever used. Be very careful on VMS 1.0. Otherwise it is probably fine. VMS 1.0 let you rename a directory into itself. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 08:58:19 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: PCSI, disk space, UNDO, unseen dangers etc Message-ID: <$K5raUPMeZBj@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , glen herrmannsfeldt writes: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > >>>Isn't renaming directories officially unsupported, though? :-) > >> Not on any version of VMS that I've ever used. > > Be very careful on VMS 1.0. Otherwise it is probably fine. > > VMS 1.0 let you rename a directory into itself. > Before VMS 3.0 you could delete a non-empty directory by just setting it's protection. But I've never seen any directory refered to _only_ by itself other than 000000.DIR;1 I used VMS 1.x little enough to avoid discovering circular directory references. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 09:09:12 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL and ERRLOG.SYS Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > Looking for large files on the system disk which have been recently > modified, I see > > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSERR]ERRLOG.SYS and > > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL. > > Do both of these files need to be on the system disk? If not, is there > a way to change the name and location of the files (e.g. a logical > name)? > You can, and should, periodicly migrate these files to offline storage. ERRLOG.SYS can simply be renamed or deleted after migration, the error logger will simply create a new one. The command to start a new audit log is in "set audit", the exact form has varied slightly over major versions of VMS. You should also look at SYS$MANAGER:OPERATOR.LOG, and any log files your network stacks are generating (c.f. "reply/new_log"). Migrating the security log is particularly important because it makes it so hard for an attacker to modify the log should he find a hole in your system and get in. The same concepts apply to other OS, although finding the files might not be as easy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:27:48 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL and ERRLOG.SYS Message-ID: While we are on this topic, I have two system disks, and two SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL files: SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL;2 (6341,5,0) 12067/12231 21-JUL-1999 14:48:25.39 16-FEB-2007 13:30:54.42 SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL;2 (6341,5,0) 123805/123966 21-JUL-1999 14:48:25.39 17-FEB-2007 12:34:14.08 HELP shows === HELP SET AUDIT /SERVER /SERVER=keyword[,...] Modifies audit server characteristics. The following table describes keywords for the /SERVER qualifier: Keyword Description CREATE_SYSTEM_LOG This keyword is obsolete. On Alpha, causes the audit server to create a new local system security audit log file. Other audit servers in the cluster are not affected. This keyword may be used by sites operating a multienvironment cluster where it may be necessary to create a new log file on a specific node in the cluster. CREATE_ SYSTEM_LOG is synonymous with NEW_LOG for nonclustered systems. [...] NEW_LOG Creates a new clusterwide audit log file. Typically, this is used daily to generate a new version of the audit log file. The following sequence of commands can be used to reset the space monitoring thresholds and then to recreate the auditing log, thereby creating a smaller log file: $ SET AUDIT /JOURNAL=SECURITY /THRESHOLD=WARN=200 $ SET AUDIT /SERVER=NEW_LOG By default, the size of the new auditing log file is based on the size of the previous auditing logs. === So I have separate journals for each node in the cluster, and the modified-date is not the date of last entry, and the qualifier I think I'd use to make a smaller new file on each system is marked "This keyword is obsolete," but also "On Alpha, causes...." and I'm on Alpha. The other qualifier, NEW_LOG "Creates a new clusterwide audit log file." which is not the environment I'd like to retain, and the instructions for how to make a smaller file are not detailed with the other qualifier. I seek guidance. koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote on 06/05/2007 10:09:12 AM: > In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > Looking for large files on the system disk which have been recently > > modified, I see > > > > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSERR]ERRLOG.SYS and > > > > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL. > > > > Do both of these files need to be on the system disk? If not, is there > > a way to change the name and location of the files (e.g. a logical > > name)? > > > > You can, and should, periodicly migrate these files to offline > storage. ERRLOG.SYS can simply be renamed or deleted after migration, > the error logger will simply create a new one. > > The command to start a new audit log is in "set audit", the exact > form has varied slightly over major versions of VMS. > > You should also look at SYS$MANAGER:OPERATOR.LOG, and any log files > your network stacks are generating (c.f. "reply/new_log"). > > Migrating the security log is particularly important because it makes > it so hard for an attacker to modify the log should he find a hole in > your system and get in. > > The same concepts apply to other OS, although finding the files might > not be as easy. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 05:54:53 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: In article <1180995199.631765.176890@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Sue writes: > One of the VERY helpful people told me "don't go to the > VMS group it will be dead in a year, there is no future" That was July > 1994, I hired into the VMS group the next week. > > So why am I telling you this, because I get mail and I see posts > everyday saying the same thing. VMS itself is still alive, yes. VMS in academia, for example, is dead in many parts of the world. I remember a DECUS presentation once where an HP executive had a map with little flags everywhere there was a campus license at a university. The number of flags hadn't changed much in the previous 10 years, but in one case---probably representative---I know about, this went from a university where thousands of students had accounts, the university itself war running VMS etc to ONE GUY running VMS on a machine under his desk. > We have a roadmap that we meet and have done so for years and we keep > our word that should count for something. Yes, but what good is a rolling roadmap? For example, what is the fate of VMS 8.2 for VAX? It was on the roadmap at one time, but it is no longer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 07:49:30 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Story Time Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply > [mailto:helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de] > Sent: June 5, 2007 1:55 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Story Time >=20 > In article <1180995199.631765.176890@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, > Sue > writes: >=20 > > One of the VERY helpful people told me "don't go to the > > VMS group it will be dead in a year, there is no future" That was > July > > 1994, I hired into the VMS group the next week. > > > > So why am I telling you this, because I get mail and I see posts > > everyday saying the same thing. >=20 > VMS itself is still alive, yes. VMS in academia, for example, is dead > in many parts of the world. I remember a DECUS presentation once > where > an HP executive had a map with little flags everywhere there was a > campus license at a university. The number of flags hadn't changed > much > in the previous 10 years, but in one case---probably representative--- > I > know about, this went from a university where thousands of students > had > accounts, the university itself war running VMS etc to ONE GUY running > VMS on a machine under his desk. >=20 > > We have a roadmap that we meet and have done so for years and we > keep > > our word that should count for something. >=20 > Yes, but what good is a rolling roadmap? For example, what is the > fate > of VMS 8.2 for VAX? It was on the roadmap at one time, but it is no > longer. Phillip - A roadmap is a guide. It is not cast in stone and there are all sorts of statements on the roadmap stating "subject to change". This has been discussed many times on comp.os.vms. Can you point me to any other large OS/server vendor that has as detailed (versions etc) future roadmaps on their storage, OS, networking, HW etc available on their public web site? For that matter, can you provide me with any OS software vendor that still provides current versions of their OS for HW that is 20+ years old? I wonder what Microsoft would say if I asked them to support Windows XP or Windows 2003 on a 286 or even a 386 or 486 system?=20 Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:05:05 GMT From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: >Yes, but what good is a rolling roadmap? None whatsoever. It's best to ignore them. >For example, what is the fate >of VMS 8.2 for VAX? I expect it will NEVER happen. If there's another VAX release, it will probably be called V8.3, or something later. >It was on the roadmap at one time, but it is no >longer. Yup. That's because a new VAX release isn't even in the top 100 list of things customers are asking for. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 12:49:52 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <5cl4ffF2v760eU2@mid.individual.net> In article <1181020029.542678.272580@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, davidc@montagar.com writes: > On Jun 4, 5:13 pm, Sue wrote: >> Dear Newsgroup, >> So why am I telling you this, because I get mail and I see posts >> everyday saying the same thing. > > True. I get tired of reading posts by the same folks telling me (and > others that stumble into this group) how OpenVMS is dying, what next > faux pas HP has committed to accelerate the death of OpenVMS, yada > yada yada. No good deed seems to go unpunished, every win is back- > spinned into a loss. > > By these standards, Linux should not exist, there was no money, no > support, no marketshare. Worse than what OpenVMS has. But it exists. But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you denigrate have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have stated numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of crap like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! > > Because for the most part, people don't complain, they contribute. > There's fewer applications available you say? Then port something. > There are tons of quality applications that are GPL'd than would be > great to port to OpenVMS. Not anything useful? I call BS. After > all, what exactly do you think make a Linux distribution today, > anyway. Except that the largest majority of those truly useful applications can not be ported to VMS. Why? Because half of them require fork() and the other half require a current version of X11. Neither of which VMS has or is likely to have in the near (or even distant) future. > > Technically, there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to run Gnome/ > KDE on OpenVMS. Port a library or app, make a PCSI kit for it, and > someone, SOMEWHERE will find a place to host it- I'd wager Warren > would be happy to host/link to the kit directly off the OpenVMS page. > > There's thousands of hobbyists and other out there. Certainly we can > make a difference. There were thousands upon thousands of MG and Triumph owners (still are, actually) but even that didn't save BLM from bad management. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 12:58:51 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <5cl50bF2v760eU3@mid.individual.net> In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > In article <1180995199.631765.176890@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Sue > writes: > >> One of the VERY helpful people told me "don't go to the >> VMS group it will be dead in a year, there is no future" That was July >> 1994, I hired into the VMS group the next week. >> >> So why am I telling you this, because I get mail and I see posts >> everyday saying the same thing. > > VMS itself is still alive, yes. VMS in academia, for example, is dead > in many parts of the world. I remember a DECUS presentation once where > an HP executive had a map with little flags everywhere there was a > campus license at a university. The number of flags hadn't changed much > in the previous 10 years, but in one case---probably representative---I > know about, this went from a university where thousands of students had > accounts, the university itself war running VMS etc to ONE GUY running > VMS on a machine under his desk. This is more meaningful than you might think. We still have a VMS machine here for academic use. And every faculty, staff and student has an account on it. How does this show up in the VMS constant? I am sure that the existence of this machine is counted in HP's numbers somewhere. Only problem is, no one uses it. Students haven't used it for years. The last users were dinosaur faculty who still read their email there. But the University Datacenter fixed that. They stopped letting it receive or send email. Now, it sits int he computer room consuming electricity and generating heat. I ran the last VMS machines for academic use and as everyone here already knows, they were shutdown last year. So, I guess at least here, I was that ONE GUY. It's nice to hear from someone at HP that VMS's future is secure, but those of us who have been here for any length of time heard the same thing about Alpha right up until the day it died. And people not here will never hear anything because HP keeps it hidden. So, what does that tell you? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 09:23:19 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Story Time Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On > Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > Sent: June 5, 2007 8:50 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Story Time >=20 > In article <1181020029.542678.272580@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > davidc@montagar.com writes: > > On Jun 4, 5:13 pm, Sue wrote: > >> Dear Newsgroup, > >> So why am I telling you this, because I get mail and I see posts > >> everyday saying the same thing. > > > > True. I get tired of reading posts by the same folks telling me > (and > > others that stumble into this group) how OpenVMS is dying, what next > > faux pas HP has committed to accelerate the death of OpenVMS, yada > > yada yada. No good deed seems to go unpunished, every win is back- > > spinned into a loss. > > > > By these standards, Linux should not exist, there was no money, no > > support, no marketshare. Worse than what OpenVMS has. But it > exists. >=20 > But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you > denigrate > have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have stated > numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of > crap > like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! >=20 > > > > Because for the most part, people don't complain, they contribute. > > There's fewer applications available you say? Then port something. > > There are tons of quality applications that are GPL'd than would be > > great to port to OpenVMS. Not anything useful? I call BS. After > > all, what exactly do you think make a Linux distribution today, > > anyway. >=20 > Except that the largest majority of those truly useful applications > can not be ported to VMS. Why? Because half of them require fork() > and the other half require a current version of X11. Neither of which > VMS has or is likely to have in the near (or even distant) future. >=20 Please, lets forget the hype here ok? Are you saying that because OpenVMS does not support fork (a UNIX way of doing IO), that its future is doomed? Geez, I guess Microsoft will be heart broken to hear their platform is doomed because it does not support fork either. There are many ways to accomplish a given task. In some cases, there are better ways of doing the same thing. As far as the University scene goes, they are under huge, huge pressure to reduce costs, so the various Colleges and Departments within the University are jumping on the open source, Linux stuff not because it is technically better, but rather because it is low cost (at least when you look at the initial cost only).=20 However, like the old saying goes, "the grass is not always greener on the other side" and these same Universities are now struggling with monthly security patching, version control, license monitoring, change management and yet still keep in line with regulatory requirements like FERPA, SOX, HIPPA etc.=20 And lets not kid ourselves - the University environment is rife with what some might call "internal hackers". What is happening with OpenVMS at Universities is no different than what is also happening to Solaris and AIX at Universities .. same thing happening to them as well. I know as I just recently completed a multi-platform consolidation engagement at a large US University. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 08:53:03 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <3Vd9i.17286$NU1.9236@newsfe13.lga> On 06/05/07 07:49, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <1181020029.542678.272580@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > davidc@montagar.com writes: [snip] >> >> By these standards, Linux should not exist, there was no money, no >> support, no marketshare. Worse than what OpenVMS has. But it exists. > > But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you denigrate > have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have stated > numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of crap > like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! (Time to pick up Linux's banner.) Back in the early days, Linux had *no* marketing. What it had was enthusiastic developers. Enthusiastic developers created more interest and more interest created more enthusiastic developers which created more good software. Even now, IMNSHO (in my possibly wrong opinion), it's the dichotomy of enthusiasm (on the desktop) and cold business calculation (Windows-like costs without the viruses and crashes and a fear of a return to Unix Wars) (on the server) that keeps Linux growing. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 14:41:00 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <20070605134100.GA7625@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 12:58:51PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > room consuming electricity and generating heat. I ran the last VMS > machines for academic use and as everyone here already knows, they > were shutdown last year. So, I guess at least here, I was that ONE > GUY. nevermind, I received a 15k GBP grant from the Royal Society in 2007, part of which is for setting up a vms cluster. Whatever they say, with educational licenses and reasonably priced alphas and integrity, e.g. rx2660, why not give it a go. If all works at least half well, why not let my students explore parallel/ distributed computing on a cross architecture cluster with wery high bandwidth. It might at least be worth considering this as an alternative to a beowulf cluster, in particular, a vms cluster might even be more energy efficient. Obtaining the media and general information, though, was hard, and I'd like to take this opportunity to thank first Ray Turner, UK VMS ambassador, Ian Miller and others from openvms.org, Colin Butcher, and all others, including this mailing list and some people from HP, who helped me. -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 09:09:26 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: On 06/05/07 08:23, Main, Kerry wrote: [snip] > > fork (a UNIX way of > doing IO) Say what? [snip] > > As far as the University scene goes, they are under huge, huge pressure > to reduce costs, so the various Colleges and Departments within the > University are jumping on the open source, Linux stuff not because it is > technically better, but rather because it is low cost (at least when you > look at the initial cost only). If the staff is already paid for... [snip] > > What is happening with OpenVMS at Universities is no different than what > is also happening to Solaris and AIX at Universities .. same thing > happening to them as well. I know as I just recently completed a > multi-platform consolidation engagement at a large US University. On to VMS? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 14:11:55 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <5cl99aF307t9eU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On >> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> Sent: June 5, 2007 8:50 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Story Time >>=20 >> In article <1181020029.542678.272580@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, >> davidc@montagar.com writes: >> > On Jun 4, 5:13 pm, Sue wrote: >> >> Dear Newsgroup, >> >> So why am I telling you this, because I get mail and I see posts >> >> everyday saying the same thing. >> > >> > True. I get tired of reading posts by the same folks telling me >> (and >> > others that stumble into this group) how OpenVMS is dying, what next >> > faux pas HP has committed to accelerate the death of OpenVMS, yada >> > yada yada. No good deed seems to go unpunished, every win is back- >> > spinned into a loss. >> > >> > By these standards, Linux should not exist, there was no money, no >> > support, no marketshare. Worse than what OpenVMS has. But it >> exists. >>=20 >> But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you >> denigrate >> have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have stated >> numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of >> crap >> like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! >>=20 >> > >> > Because for the most part, people don't complain, they contribute. >> > There's fewer applications available you say? Then port something. >> > There are tons of quality applications that are GPL'd than would be >> > great to port to OpenVMS. Not anything useful? I call BS. After >> > all, what exactly do you think make a Linux distribution today, >> > anyway. >>=20 >> Except that the largest majority of those truly useful applications >> can not be ported to VMS. Why? Because half of them require fork() >> and the other half require a current version of X11. Neither of which >> VMS has or is likely to have in the near (or even distant) future. >>=20 > > Please, lets forget the hype here ok? > > Are you saying that because OpenVMS does not support fork (a UNIX way of > doing IO), that its future is doomed? That's not what I said at all. Someone else hinted that porting Unix/Linux Open Source Software was somehow trivial and could be done by the people here in their spare time. I merely pointed out that porting from Unix/Linux to VMS is anything but trivial unless the program itself is trivial (and therefore of little if any value.) Oh, and fork() is not "a UNIX way of doing IO". > > Geez, I guess Microsoft will be heart broken to hear their platform is > doomed because it does not support fork either. Microsoft's OSes already support all the useful applications they need. They are not in need of someone porting OSS in their spare time. And, Funny, I have fork() on the XP box on my desk (at least under Cygwin, I haven't done any native Windows development in a long time so I can't say if they have it now, too.) > > There are many ways to accomplish a given task. In some cases, there are > better ways of doing the same thing. OK, so how would you accomplish the equivalent of fork() in all this OSS people think we should be porting to VMS? If you know a "better way" stop keeping it under your hat. > > As far as the University scene goes, they are under huge, huge pressure > to reduce costs, so the various Colleges and Departments within the > University are jumping on the open source, Linux stuff not because it is > technically better, but rather because it is low cost (at least when you > look at the initial cost only).=20 Nice excuse, but I just told you they have a VMS machine here for academic use. It is running all the time. No one uses it. Now, why would that be? > > However, like the old saying goes, "the grass is not always greener on > the other side" and these same Universities are now struggling with > monthly security patching, version control, license monitoring, change > management and yet still keep in line with regulatory requirements like > FERPA, SOX, HIPPA etc.=20 Yeah, keep telling yourself that. They are "struggling" so hard I'll bet you get a thousand calls a day asking for you to deliver new Itanium VMS systems to Universities all over the world. :-) > > And lets not kid ourselves - the University environment is rife with > what some might call "internal hackers". Not sure what that's supposed to mean. The days of the student hacker are long gone. Most of these kids would much rather spend an evening in the local bar than in a computer lab today. As for "internal" vs. "external", read any security trade rag. The majority of threats are from inside, University or business. That's just the way it is today. > > What is happening with OpenVMS at Universities is no different than what > is also happening to Solaris and AIX at Universities .. Really?? We have a course here that runs every Spring that still has the students installing, configuring, administering and developing software on Solaris. We still have a Sparc system in the lab. This course does not now and never has included any, even casual, mention or exposure to VMS, even whe we were still running it here in the department. Read my lips, there is academic use of BSDUnix, Linux, Solaris, Windows, QNX, BrickOS, etc. etc. There is no academic use of VMS. > same thing > happening to them as well. I know as I just recently completed a > multi-platform consolidation engagement at a large US University. Oh, you are talking about administrative use. Well, that's is different. We still use VMS administratively. But the University is tied to Banner and Oracle, not the OS. If Banner moved to Windows Server 2005 tomorrow, so would the University. It's just what people have been saying for ages here. It's the applications, not the OS. As more and more people (like CDC) begin to see VSM as not in their future the applications will move off of VMS and we all know what the current users of those application will do. It really is time to read the handwriting on the wall. If the people inside of HP can't convince them to start pushing VMS in order to strengthen it's position in the industry, what chance do outsiders have? While I am in the market for a new position and would love to work on VMS, I am not likely to bet my future on it. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 07:30:58 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:41:00 -0700, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 12:58:51PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> room consuming electricity and generating heat. I ran the last VMS >> machines for academic use and as everyone here already knows, they >> were shutdown last year. So, I guess at least here, I was that ONE >> GUY. > > nevermind, I received a 15k GBP grant from the Royal Society in 2007, > part > of which is for setting up a vms cluster. Whatever they say, with > educational licenses and reasonably priced alphas and integrity, e.g. > rx2660, > why not give it a go. > > If all works at least half well, why not let my students explore > parallel/ > distributed computing on a cross architecture cluster with wery high > bandwidth. > > It might at least be worth considering this as an alternative to a > beowulf cluster, in particular, a vms cluster might even be more > energy efficient. > > Obtaining the media and general information, though, was hard, and I'd > like to take this opportunity to thank first Ray Turner, UK VMS > ambassador, Ian Miller and others from openvms.org, Colin Butcher, and > all others, including this mailing list and some people from HP, who > helped me. > Anton, I would be pleased to donate a PL/I license so your students can have the opportunity to learn a powerful programming language. If interested contact me offline. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:39:37 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Story Time Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On > Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > Sent: June 5, 2007 10:12 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Story Time >=20 > In article > t>, > "Main, Kerry" writes: > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] > On > >> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > >> Sent: June 5, 2007 8:50 AM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: Re: Story Time > >>=3D20 > >> In article <1181020029.542678.272580@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > >> davidc@montagar.com writes: > >> > On Jun 4, 5:13 pm, Sue wrote: > >> >> Dear Newsgroup, > >> >> So why am I telling you this, because I get mail and I see posts > >> >> everyday saying the same thing. > >> > > >> > True. I get tired of reading posts by the same folks telling me > >> (and > >> > others that stumble into this group) how OpenVMS is dying, what > next > >> > faux pas HP has committed to accelerate the death of OpenVMS, > yada > >> > yada yada. No good deed seems to go unpunished, every win is > back- > >> > spinned into a loss. > >> > > >> > By these standards, Linux should not exist, there was no money, > no > >> > support, no marketshare. Worse than what OpenVMS has. But it > >> exists. > >>=3D20 > >> But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you > >> denigrate > >> have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have > stated > >> numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of > >> crap > >> like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! > >>=3D20 > >> > > >> > Because for the most part, people don't complain, they > contribute. > >> > There's fewer applications available you say? Then port > something. > >> > There are tons of quality applications that are GPL'd than would > be > >> > great to port to OpenVMS. Not anything useful? I call BS. > After > >> > all, what exactly do you think make a Linux distribution today, > >> > anyway. > >>=3D20 > >> Except that the largest majority of those truly useful applications > >> can not be ported to VMS. Why? Because half of them require > fork() > >> and the other half require a current version of X11. Neither of > which > >> VMS has or is likely to have in the near (or even distant) future. > >>=3D20 > > > > Please, lets forget the hype here ok? > > > > Are you saying that because OpenVMS does not support fork (a UNIX > way of > > doing IO), that its future is doomed? >=20 > That's not what I said at all. Someone else hinted that porting > Unix/Linux Open Source Software was somehow trivial and could be > done by the people here in their spare time. I merely pointed out > that porting from Unix/Linux to VMS is anything but trivial unless > the program itself is trivial (and therefore of little if any value.) >=20 There are major UNIX applications that have been ported to OpenVMS and other platforms for that matter and while there are always some OS specific things that might need to be done another way, it certainly is not something that is a showstopper. Hey, what do you think Oracle does for OpenVMS? For Windows? > Oh, and fork() is not "a UNIX way of doing IO". >=20 > > > > Geez, I guess Microsoft will be heart broken to hear their platform > is > > doomed because it does not support fork either. >=20 > Microsoft's OSes already support all the useful applications they > need. > They are not in need of someone porting OSS in their spare time. And, >=20 > Funny, I have fork() on the XP box on my desk (at least under Cygwin, > I haven't done any native Windows development in a long time so I > can't > say if they have it now, too.) >=20 > > > > There are many ways to accomplish a given task. In some cases, there > are > > better ways of doing the same thing. >=20 > OK, so how would you accomplish the equivalent of fork() in all this > OSS people think we should be porting to VMS? If you know a "better > way" stop keeping it under your hat. >=20 Simple - you start with research 101 and enter "fork OpenVMS" into google or you read the VMS FAQ's. As examples: http://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2002-March/001754.html > > > > As far as the University scene goes, they are under huge, huge > pressure > > to reduce costs, so the various Colleges and Departments within the > > University are jumping on the open source, Linux stuff not because > it is > > technically better, but rather because it is low cost (at least when > you > > look at the initial cost only).=3D20 >=20 > Nice excuse, but I just told you they have a VMS machine here for > academic > use. It is running all the time. No one uses it. Now, why would > that be? >=20 Probably because they do not even know it is there or what ever IT service is offered on the OpenVMS system is not of interest to them. > > > > However, like the old saying goes, "the grass is not always greener > on > > the other side" and these same Universities are now struggling with > > monthly security patching, version control, license monitoring, > change > > management and yet still keep in line with regulatory requirements > like > > FERPA, SOX, HIPPA etc.=3D20 >=20 > Yeah, keep telling yourself that. They are "struggling" so hard I'll > bet you get a thousand calls a day asking for you to deliver new > Itanium > VMS systems to Universities all over the world. :-) >=20 They are struggling big time "no staff, to many patches, to many regulatory concerns, to many things to do etc etc .." were common complaints from the IT survey we did (and this environment was all Windows and Solaris.=20 Their big mandate was to migrate from Solaris to Linux - ASAP was the speed I was told. Which was technically better made no difference as up front costs were all they were worried about. Unfortunately, when I pointed out all of the monthly security patches for Linux, they were amazed (shocked?) because they were not aware that there are so many released every month. I suspect the same story is true of many sites (OpenVMS, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX) that are migrating to Linux i.e. similar to Windows sites a few years ago, they are only looking at short term savings and how to deal with all of the monthly Linux security patches will somehow work itself out. > > > > And lets not kid ourselves - the University environment is rife with > > what some might call "internal hackers". >=20 > Not sure what that's supposed to mean. The days of the student hacker > are long gone. Most of these kids would much rather spend an evening > in the local bar than in a computer lab today. As for "internal" vs. > "external", read any security trade rag. The majority of threats are > from inside, University or business. That's just the way it is today. >=20 That's not what the IT folks at the University I was at stated. > > > > What is happening with OpenVMS at Universities is no different than > what > > is also happening to Solaris and AIX at Universities .. >=20 > Really?? We have a course here that runs every Spring that still > has the students installing, configuring, administering and developing > software on Solaris. We still have a Sparc system in the lab. This > course does not now and never has included any, even casual, mention > or exposure to VMS, even whe we were still running it here in the > department. Read my lips, there is academic use of BSDUnix, Linux, > Solaris, Windows, QNX, BrickOS, etc. etc. There is no academic use > of VMS. >=20 Mmmm, so you have a UNIX based software development course environment. Fine. I would suggest to you that your University is likely looking at moving your Solaris environment to Linux as well.=20 > > same thing > > happening to them as well. I know as I just recently completed a > > multi-platform consolidation engagement at a large US University. >=20 > Oh, you are talking about administrative use. Well, that's is > different. > We still use VMS administratively. But the University is tied to > Banner > and Oracle, not the OS. If Banner moved to Windows Server 2005 > tomorrow, > so would the University. It's just what people have been saying for > ages here. It's the applications, not the OS. As more and more > people > (like CDC) begin to see VSM as not in their future the applications > will > move off of VMS and we all know what the current users of those > application > will do. >=20 > It really is time to read the handwriting on the wall. If the people > inside of HP can't convince them to start pushing VMS in order to > strengthen it's position in the industry, what chance do outsiders > have? While I am in the market for a new position and would love to > work on VMS, I am not likely to bet my future on it. >=20 You have to go where your strengths are. Based on your postings, I would say your future lies in UNIX administration - not OpenVMS administration.=20 Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do. However, if I were an IT Exec looking to hire SysAdmins these days, I would be looking for people who can manage multiple OS platforms.=20 Same thing goes for DBA's. I would rather have someone comfortable with both Oracle and SQL Server with no religious preferences than just one or the other.=20 Simply adds much more value to the company. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 09:00:49 -0700 From: "Malcolm Dunnett" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <466588b3$1@flight> "Main, Kerry" wrote in message news:FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B86840242DA22@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... >As far as the University scene goes, they are under huge, huge pressure >to reduce costs, so the various Colleges and Departments within the >University are jumping on the open source, Linux stuff not because it is >technically better, but rather because it is low cost (at least when you >look at the initial cost only). Between the EDU license grant program and the CSLG VMS would also be "low cost" for any University wishing to use it. We take advantage of this to use VMS extensively for admin/support purposes ( I don't know if we're one of the little flags or not ). Cost and business practices are what initially drove many academic sites out of the VMS market in the previous millenium, but nobody in academia can make much of a case against VMS today based on cost. While our CS department gave up on VMS some years ago ( primarily because the faculty hadn't used it when they went to school ) they were quite happily running Tru64 Unix - UNTIL HP KILLED IT. They're not sure where they're going to go now, but they are certain it won't be HP-UX on Itanium ( probably Linux on x86 ). This is not a cost cutting measure in any sense - they were using ES40's and HSG80's picked up on Ebay for a few thousand dollars and the "Enthusiast" Tru64 license (yes, they had official word from HP that teaching was a valid application of the Tru64 Enthusiast license ) combined with CSLG. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 16:57:54 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <5clj0hF313qtvU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu] On >> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> Sent: June 5, 2007 10:12 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Story Time >>=20 >> In article >> > t>, >> "Main, Kerry" writes: >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu] >> On >> >> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> >> Sent: June 5, 2007 8:50 AM >> >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> >> Subject: Re: Story Time >> >>=3D20 >> >> In article <1181020029.542678.272580@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, >> >> davidc@montagar.com writes: >> >> > On Jun 4, 5:13 pm, Sue wrote: >> >> >> Dear Newsgroup, >> >> >> So why am I telling you this, because I get mail and I see posts >> >> >> everyday saying the same thing. >> >> > >> >> > True. I get tired of reading posts by the same folks telling me >> >> (and >> >> > others that stumble into this group) how OpenVMS is dying, what >> next >> >> > faux pas HP has committed to accelerate the death of OpenVMS, >> yada >> >> > yada yada. No good deed seems to go unpunished, every win is >> back- >> >> > spinned into a loss. >> >> > >> >> > By these standards, Linux should not exist, there was no money, >> no >> >> > support, no marketshare. Worse than what OpenVMS has. But it >> >> exists. >> >>=3D20 >> >> But Linux has the one thing that the people in this group you >> >> denigrate >> >> have repeatedly said was needed, marketing. I personally have >> stated >> >> numerous times that if marketing can do what it has for a puile of >> >> crap >> >> like Linux just imagine what it could do for a gem like VMS!! >> >>=3D20 >> >> > >> >> > Because for the most part, people don't complain, they >> contribute. >> >> > There's fewer applications available you say? Then port >> something. >> >> > There are tons of quality applications that are GPL'd than would >> be >> >> > great to port to OpenVMS. Not anything useful? I call BS. >> After >> >> > all, what exactly do you think make a Linux distribution today, >> >> > anyway. >> >>=3D20 >> >> Except that the largest majority of those truly useful applications >> >> can not be ported to VMS. Why? Because half of them require >> fork() >> >> and the other half require a current version of X11. Neither of >> which >> >> VMS has or is likely to have in the near (or even distant) future. >> >>=3D20 >> > >> > Please, lets forget the hype here ok? >> > >> > Are you saying that because OpenVMS does not support fork (a UNIX >> way of >> > doing IO), that its future is doomed? >>=20 >> That's not what I said at all. Someone else hinted that porting >> Unix/Linux Open Source Software was somehow trivial and could be >> done by the people here in their spare time. I merely pointed out >> that porting from Unix/Linux to VMS is anything but trivial unless >> the program itself is trivial (and therefore of little if any value.) >>=20 > > There are major UNIX applications that have been ported to OpenVMS and > other platforms for that matter and while there are always some OS > specific things that might need to be done another way, it certainly is > not something that is a showstopper. > > Hey, what do you think Oracle does for OpenVMS? For Windows? Are you trying to tell me that Oracle was OSS "ported" from Linux to OpenVMS as opposed to having been written specifically for VMS? > >> Oh, and fork() is not "a UNIX way of doing IO". >>=20 >> > >> > Geez, I guess Microsoft will be heart broken to hear their platform >> is >> > doomed because it does not support fork either. >>=20 >> Microsoft's OSes already support all the useful applications they >> need. >> They are not in need of someone porting OSS in their spare time. And, >>=20 >> Funny, I have fork() on the XP box on my desk (at least under Cygwin, >> I haven't done any native Windows development in a long time so I >> can't >> say if they have it now, too.) >>=20 >> > >> > There are many ways to accomplish a given task. In some cases, there >> are >> > better ways of doing the same thing. >>=20 >> OK, so how would you accomplish the equivalent of fork() in all this >> OSS people think we should be porting to VMS? If you know a "better >> way" stop keeping it under your hat. >>=20 > > Simple - you start with research 101 and enter "fork OpenVMS" into > google or you read the VMS FAQ's. I don't have to. It has been pointed out here numerous times, including by VMS Engineer that VMS doesn't "fork". It may have a way to spaen a new process, but it ain't a "fork". And many of those high demand OSS programs require the functionality of a true fork(). > > As examples: > http://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2002-March/001754.html What was the point of this? It specifically states VMS does not have a fork() and can not duplicate the functionality of the Unix fork() (ie. "the child and the parent do not share any I/O context"). Many (most?) programs using fork() would require this. > >> > >> > As far as the University scene goes, they are under huge, huge >> pressure >> > to reduce costs, so the various Colleges and Departments within the >> > University are jumping on the open source, Linux stuff not because >> it is >> > technically better, but rather because it is low cost (at least when >> you >> > look at the initial cost only).=3D20 >>=20 >> Nice excuse, but I just told you they have a VMS machine here for >> academic >> use. It is running all the time. No one uses it. Now, why would >> that be? >>=20 > > Probably because they do not even know it is there or what ever IT > service is offered on the OpenVMS system is not of interest to them. Ummmm.... When I got here, the VMS system was all there was. Everybody used it. Over time, it's usage has dropped until today it is a glorified space heater. Your second clause is closer to the truth. There is nothing on the system that they can't find an easier and more functional replacement for on some other system, primarily a PC. So, you tell me. Based on what you think college students, faculty and staff do, what possible use can you see for VMS at the user level? > >> > >> > However, like the old saying goes, "the grass is not always greener >> on >> > the other side" and these same Universities are now struggling with >> > monthly security patching, version control, license monitoring, >> change >> > management and yet still keep in line with regulatory requirements >> like >> > FERPA, SOX, HIPPA etc.=3D20 >>=20 >> Yeah, keep telling yourself that. They are "struggling" so hard I'll >> bet you get a thousand calls a day asking for you to deliver new >> Itanium >> VMS systems to Universities all over the world. :-) >>=20 > > They are struggling big time "no staff, to many patches, to many > regulatory concerns, to many things to do etc etc .." were common > complaints from the IT survey we did (and this environment was all > Windows and Solaris.=20 Bull crap. Important patches (security stuff) are handled automatically by MS every night. The last patch I absolutely had to do in the middle of the semester was the stupid government mandated DST changes. If you are n it running the programs that the patches are for or, if they don't affect you, then you don't have to do them. Regulatrory? I thought we were taklking academia here and not the machines that the administrators use. > > Their big mandate was to migrate from Solaris to Linux - ASAP was the > speed I was told. Which was technically better made no difference as up > front costs were all they were worried about. Unfortunately, when I > pointed out all of the monthly security patches for Linux, they were > amazed (shocked?) because they were not aware that there are so many > released every month. I find that real hard to believe, unless these IT "professionals" live under a rock somewhere. We actually dumped Sun as our main machines back at the end of the SunOS days when Solaris was truly a joke. But it has kept at least enough presence here for students to get their feet wet. Sadly, VMS has not. > > I suspect the same story is true of many sites (OpenVMS, Solaris, AIX, > HP-UX) that are migrating to Linux i.e. similar to Windows sites a few > years ago, they are only looking at short term savings and how to deal > with all of the monthly Linux security patches will somehow work itself > out. We are not "migrating to Linux". It is used by the students in certain courses for the sake of information. It is significant that VMS is not afforded the same status. It should tell people something. And before you say something like, "Well, the faculty probably have never used it so they don't know anything about it." Let me tell you that every faculty member in the department except our newest (who came from the faculty of UGA, and even bigger school than us) has more experience with VMS than with Unix and some even prefer VMS over Unix. But, just like they use Java int he classroom rather than the Ada we used to use, VMS is not considered relevant enough to be included in any course. > >> > >> > And lets not kid ourselves - the University environment is rife with >> > what some might call "internal hackers". >>=20 >> Not sure what that's supposed to mean. The days of the student hacker >> are long gone. Most of these kids would much rather spend an evening >> in the local bar than in a computer lab today. As for "internal" vs. >> "external", read any security trade rag. The majority of threats are >> from inside, University or business. That's just the way it is today. >>=20 > > That's not what the IT folks at the University I was at stated. Yeah, well.... Are these the same "IT folks" who didn't know about Linux patches? > >> > >> > What is happening with OpenVMS at Universities is no different than >> what >> > is also happening to Solaris and AIX at Universities .. >>=20 >> Really?? We have a course here that runs every Spring that still >> has the students installing, configuring, administering and developing >> software on Solaris. We still have a Sparc system in the lab. This >> course does not now and never has included any, even casual, mention >> or exposure to VMS, even whe we were still running it here in the >> department. Read my lips, there is academic use of BSDUnix, Linux, >> Solaris, Windows, QNX, BrickOS, etc. etc. There is no academic use >> of VMS. >>=20 > > Mmmm, so you have a UNIX based software development course environment. > Fine. I never said that. Actually, the development environment is dependant on the course. Some is Windows, soem is Unix. > > I would suggest to you that your University is likely looking at moving > your Solaris environment to Linux as well.=20 And you would be wrong on both counts. We don't have a "Solarisr environment" we are FreeBSD on the Unix side and XP on the Windows side. We have courses that introduce the students to other OS environments, including Solaris and QNX. Conspicuous in its absence is VMS. Has something to do with percieved relevance in the indugtry. > >> > same thing >> > happening to them as well. I know as I just recently completed a >> > multi-platform consolidation engagement at a large US University. >>=20 >> Oh, you are talking about administrative use. Well, that's is >> different. >> We still use VMS administratively. But the University is tied to >> Banner >> and Oracle, not the OS. If Banner moved to Windows Server 2005 >> tomorrow, >> so would the University. It's just what people have been saying for >> ages here. It's the applications, not the OS. As more and more >> people >> (like CDC) begin to see VSM as not in their future the applications >> will >> move off of VMS and we all know what the current users of those >> application >> will do. >>=20 >> It really is time to read the handwriting on the wall. If the people >> inside of HP can't convince them to start pushing VMS in order to >> strengthen it's position in the industry, what chance do outsiders >> have? While I am in the market for a new position and would love to >> work on VMS, I am not likely to bet my future on it. >>=20 > > You have to go where your strengths are. Based on your postings, I would > say your future lies in UNIX administration - not OpenVMS > administration.=20 Actually, I would really rather just go back to programming. I really miss COBOL. :-) > > Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do. > > However, if I were an IT Exec looking to hire SysAdmins these days, I > would be looking for people who can manage multiple OS platforms.=20 Nice thought, but that's not the way the job market seems to be shaping up. > > Same thing goes for DBA's. I would rather have someone comfortable with > both Oracle and SQL Server with no religious preferences than just one > or the other.=20 Knowing what is involved in beng a DBA, and having had to admin multiple different Database engines, I would disagree. Jack of all trades, master of none. > > Simply adds much more value to the company. Luckily, I will never be looking for a job as a DBA. pay may be nice but I really don't need that kind of stress this late in my career. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:40:29 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Story Time Message-ID: <1181065229.574964.93770@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 12:57 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > "Main, Kerry" writes: > > Hey, what do you think Oracle does for OpenVMS? For Windows? > > Are you trying to tell me that Oracle was OSS "ported" from Linux to > OpenVMS as opposed to having been written specifically for VMS? > Unfortunately, yes. Ever since v8.1.7.0 that's what they do. It was supposed to let them release an OpenVMS version within 90 day of the release of the major UNIX version that Oracle is based on (IIRC Solaris Sparc). So far the best they managed was the initial 8.1.7 release which was only 120 days or so behind the UNIX version. The first versions of Oracle were developed on VAX/VMS, but somewhere along the way (around V6 perhaps), they switched to doing the main development on Sun Solaris and then implemented the changes on the other platforms they supported. The 8i release (8.1.7) I believe was the first major release where the code was made for UNIX, then ported to other O/S platforms. I may be somewhat off on this, but I'm close. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jun 2007 07:57:49 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Upgrade to Vista from XP ? Yes or No Message-ID: In article <00A687DD.510D7470@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> >> More like WNT picked up one small gene from the VMS gene pool. >> The rest of WNT is a collection of problem causing mutations. > > Would you mind if I paraphrased your above two lines? > > WNT picked up one small gene from the VMS gene pool; the rest of WNT is > a collection of problem causing mutations. > > Sounds like the perfect newsgroup signature quote to me. Use as you please. I release all rights to the punblic domain. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:19:21 -0700 From: Sue Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181024361.580452.297150@p47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Jun 4, 6:47 pm, Sue wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Skonetski, Susan > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 4:12 PM > To: Skonetski, Susan > Subject: OpenVMS Update - Ok for external - Monday June 4th > > Dear Internal and External Distribution lists, > > Enclosed please find the latest VMS Update sorry for the delay, I > think the size explains it. > > Folks where do I start, there is so much to talk about. Probably with > the usual disclaimer that this is not an official newsletter just an > email between friends. We have had so much happen, hopefully you have > seen the Blades announcement from last week. The Boot Camp was the > biggest thing recently which has also received excellent customer > feedback. At this point I can honestly say the ball room for the > Keynotes was standing room only and the team did an amazing job. At > the Partners Roundhouse on Tuesday evening it was packed, there were > folks 5 deep to look at VMS running on HP Blades and a variety of > Integrity Servers. There were over 185 sessions and we added 4 based > on customer request during the week. > > Also as you read some of our Partner news and quotes on other web > sites its very interesting to see who some of our customers are. Also > of note is the Parsec Operating System IQ test (see 6.5). > > All URLs work, they may wrap so please check before sending me email. > > Warm Regards as always, > Sue > > Table of Contents > 1.0 From OpenVMS Engineering > 1.1 HP OpenVMS Announces Support for HP Blade Systems > 1.2 Letter from Ann McQuaid > 2.0 Sue's Fav's > 2.1 OpenVMS Roadmaps > 2.2 Server matrix > 2.3 Partner application A-Z listing > 2.4 Where to purchase Alphas and Options > 2.5 DECedout > 3.0 From OpenVMS.org > 3.1 Audio Updates > 3.2 Golden Eggs > 4.0 In the Press > 5.0 The National Computer Museum at Bletchley Park > 6.0 From our Partners: > 6.1 XUIS - The British Library read up on ConsoleWorks" > 6.2 Announcement from XUIS > 6.3 Unicenter System Watchdog for OpenVMS r2.4 SP3 Japanese OpenV= MS > Certification > 6.4 ISE Software - New live Flash demos available, customer succe= ss > story available > **6.5 Parsec Operating System IQ Quiz ****** > 7.0 Press Release - Legacy Technologies Releases SecurityGuard for > Itanium > > ------------------------------ > 1.0 From OpenVMS Engineering > > Now for the updated information. > > 1.1 Biggest news - HP OpenVMS Announces Support for HP BladeSystemshttp:/= /h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/cclass_support.html > > 1.2 Letter from Ann McQuaidhttp://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/annmcquaid.html > > ------------------------- > 2.0 Sue's Fav's > > 2.1 I get asked this just about every day. Here is the URL for the > OpenVMS Roadmaps they are public.http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadma= p/openvms_roadmaps.htm > > 2.2 Here is another very useful site for you. Please go to this site, > it will answer many of your questions. HP OpenVMS for Integrity > servers and AlphaServer systems > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/servermatrix.html > > 2.3 I know I put this one in a lot, but it is constantly changing > > Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profileshttp://h710= 00.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html > ---------------- > > 2.4 Where to buy Alphas if you still need them > > EMEA (Europe, Middle East, Africa), AP, Japanhttp://h40046.www4.hp.com/ > Americashttp://h20330.www2.hp.com/hpfinancialservices/cache/257411-0-0-22= 5-12... > ---------------- > > 2.5 *****Anyone that remembers DEC (you do not need to have worked for > DEC, I checked and have the email to confirm) can join - ...a website > established to benefit anyone and everyone who ever worked for Digital > Equipment Corporation, regardless of where they live or for whom they > work nowhttp://www.decedout.org/****** > > ----------------- > > 3.0 From OpenVMS.orgwww.openvms.org > > 3.1 Audio Updates -http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=3DVPN > Make sure you give feedback - you make a difference > > Did you know that openvms.org was in three languages, French, Dutch > and Italian? There is also an article with blogs from the boot camp > along with attendee quotes. > > 3.2 Golden Eggs - This is one of my favorite parts of openvms.org - If > you are new Golden Eggs is a configuration library done voluntarily by > Matti Patari, Helsinki Finland. He has done some amazing work > including Alpha, Integrity (all sizes) and Prolient, VMS and other > OS's. Take a look > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=3DGoldenEggs > -------------------------- > > 4.0 In the Press > > http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS9469673388.html Mimer > Information Technology is readying a new version of its SQL database > for mobile devices. > > Slashdot question -http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=3D07/05/12/1059= 258 > > ---------------------------- > 5.0 The National Computer Museum at Bletchley Park > > From: Kevin Murrell [kevin_AT_tnmoc_DOT_org] > The National Computer Museum at Bletchley Park in the UK run their web > accessible retro operating systems on an OpenVMS host under the > Hobbyist programme. SIMH is used to simulate hardware for running > several early Digital operating systems, such as OS8, RT11 and RSTS. > It was important for the museum to able to provide a secure and > resilient system for computer historians and scientists - the system > manager at the museum, Kevin Murrell, said he wouldn't consider > putting a system on the web, and offering open logins, unless he was > sure both the server and their internal business systems were > absolutely secure. The system runs on an Alpha Server 800. The museum > has several earlier machines running VMS include a VAX 750 and a > MicroVAX 3. The retro O/S emulation machine can be accessed viahttp://ret= robeep.no-ip.organd is available 24/7. > > Find out more about the Museum here:http://www.ccht.co.uk/index.htm > ------------------ > 6.0 From our Partners: > > 6.1 Folks you have to look at this on the XUIS web site "The British > Library read up on ConsoleWorks"http://www.xuis.com/documents/consolework= s/74.pdf > > 6.2 Also from XUIS -http://www.xuis.com/products/schedule/ from > their web site - Most batch job scheduling software is native to only > one platform; not XS-EnterpriseSCHEDULE, which is extending the > boundaries of automated job scheduling as the pre-eminent job > scheduler for Windows, AIX, OpenVMS, HPUX, Linux, Solaris and Tru64 > UNIX. > > ------------------- > > 6.3 Unicenter System Watchdog for OpenVMS r2.4 SP3 Japanese OpenVMS > Certification > > CA is pleased to announce certification of Unicenter System Watchdog > for OpenVMS r2.4 SP3 when used on Japanese OpenVMS. This is an English > only product there is no double-byte support for non-English > characters. No patches are required for Japanese OpenVMS. Please refer > to the support matrix for product patches or version support for > OpenVMS Alpha. All English OpenVMS product patches would be required > on Japanese OpenVMS For more information seehttp://supportconnectw.ca.com= /public/uniwatchdogopenvms/uniwatchdog_s... > > Robert E. Puishys Jr. > CA > > ------------------------ > > 6.4 ISE Software > > New live Flash demos available -http://www.i-s-e.com/ > EnterpriseSCHEDULE is the job scheduler that runs native on Windows, > OpenVMS, HP-UX, AIX, Linux, Solaris and Tru64UNIX. With the release of > the new Web client for browser based scheduling and the Windows NT/ > 2000/XP client, jobs can now be managed, controlled and monitored from > a single workstation across all varieties of operating systems. > > http://www.i-s-e.com/Success/ISE_Success_Story_36/- Campus Credit > Union > > ------------------------- > 6.5 Parsec OS IQ Quiz > > For all of you OpenVMS and Tru64 fanatics, PARSEC Group has initiated > an IQ quiz to test your knowledge of the best operating systems on the > planet. The quiz questions range from user level through internals > with a few trivia questions thrown in just for fun. You can sign up to > have a multiple-choice question sent to you via email either once or > twice a week. There is even a Hall-Of-Fame set up to give recognition > to those of you real OpenVMS and Tru64 wizards. Come on and give it a > try!! Signing up is easy, just go tohttp://www.parsec.com/general/iqquiz.= php > to sign up today. > > 7.0 Press Release - Legacy Technologies Releases SecurityGuard for > Itanium Legacy Technologies Releases SecurityGuard for Itanium The > most powerful security product offered on the OpenVMS platform --- now > available on Itanium. > > Spanish Fork, UT - October 1, 2006 -- Legacy Technologies, LLC the > leader in Security Software for the OpenVMS platform, announced today > that the most powerful security product available for OpenVMS, > SecurityGuard, is now available for Itanium. > > Security Guard augments the security that is inherent in OpenVMS. The > software does not seek to replace security features built into the > operating system, but rather adds security to existing areas not > protected. It contains three separate security products (AUDIT, > INTRUDER ALERT, and KBLOCK) that when combined make up the > SecurityGuard product, the most powerful Security tool available for > Itanium. > > =B7 Audit enhances native security by providing terminal session > logging, audit trail reduction, analysis, and reporting, not otherwise > available on OpenVMS systems. > > =B7 Intruder Alert provides real-time intrusion detection and respo= nse > capabilities, which enable administrators to proactively manage > computing environment security. > > =B7 KBLock enhances native OpenVMS Security for VAX/Alpha and Itaniu= m, > by providing easily implemented protections to unattended active > terminals. Such functionality is not otherwise available in standard > OpenVMS environments. > > About ProvN > You may notice we have a new name: ProvN. We are committed to > providing the same great products and support. Our products have > "proven" to be effective both financially and technically in today's > ever demanding enterprise systems. We look forward to continuing to > provide ProvN solutions. > ProvN provides a wide range of IT solutions for organizations of all > sizes using OpenVMS, UNIX, Windows, NT and XP Client-Server computing > environments. The long standing stability of these IT solutions and > our superior technical services are the hallmark of ProvN's success. > ProvN is committed to taking their > > ... > > read more =BB- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I realize that its 2 am and I should go to bed however - I am amazed with the amount of work that I personally put into this "not official newsletter, just and email between friends" and instead of hey this is cool. There is hey whe where is my name. That web site has been around for years and I have posted it a number of times so either I am wasting my time or we can just look for negative things. If thats the case can folks let me know now and I will use my time doing something more productive to help VMS Customers. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 03:39:44 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <249a4$46651371$cef8887a$19986@TEKSAVVY.COM> Sue wrote: > I am amazed with the amount of work that I personally put into this > "not official newsletter, just and email between friends" and instead > of hey this is cool. There is.... Sue, your work is more appreciated than you could imagine. It is the VMS community's only/main source of information about VMS, a lonely beacon of good news which greatly helps counter the doom and gloom that is discussed. And even if we may debate some of the items from your posts they are still good news. For instance, in a podcast, one can argue that McQuaid's statement of the USPS being a new win was really just a renewed commitment to VMS (they were already a VMS shop), but this is still a good news. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:48:17 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <00A68AC5.F5E59FC9@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <1181011943.194494.291720@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, signem@gmail.com writes: > > >On Jun 4, 8:30 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article , "Richard Maher" writes: >> >> >> >> >Hi Brian, >> >> >> Nice to see I'm missing from that list. >> >> >You're not alone :-( >> >> I'd wager that HP doesn't associate itself with its usenet vocal customers. ;) >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > >Oops. Let me correct my misstatement. I just found that in February >you did respond to us and told us not to contact you for status >information in the future. Oh? I wonder when in February? My wife was just released from the hospital and then, we went to the Netherlands. Must have been the Cat. I will be sure to beat and flog it severely today for making statements out of turn. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 04:09:37 -0700 From: signem@gmail.com Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181041777.885652.166870@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 6:48 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <1181011943.194494.291...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, sig...@gmail.com writes: > > >On Jun 4, 8:30 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > >> >Hi Brian, > > >> >> Nice to see I'm missing from that list. > > >> >You're not alone :-( > > >> I'd wager that HP doesn't associate itself with its usenet vocal customers. ;) > > >> -- > >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > >Oops. Let me correct my misstatement. I just found that in February > >you did respond to us and told us not to contact you for status > >information in the future. > > Oh? I wonder when in February? My wife was just released from the > hospital and then, we went to the Netherlands. Must have been the > Cat. I will be sure to beat and flog it severely today for making > statements out of turn. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The VMS partner database says Feb 27 2007 Brian requested that they no longer be contacted for updates. If this is untrue that I will be happy to get you back on the contact list and "have a talk" with the person who put this entry in. Our partner database is an essential part of the health of OpenVMS. I've seen people on this forum complaining about availability of apps. Well, when an "outspoken proponent of VMS" refuses to help us keep our partner information current, what does that do to reinforcing positive messages to the rest of the partners? For Integrity, we have gone from zero to over 1300 applications committed by partners. Over 1100 of those are available now. But, actually there are probably more that are being kept secret by developers who cannot be bothered to respond to our queries. Whether they are "Integrity Ready" (ported) or "Integrity Certified" (have gone through a self certification process that includes a certification letter to HP), all of these ISV applications provide the building blocks for a robust customer solution. We will never have enough of them, but at least we do have a significant number of partners out there who have enough faith in the future of VMS to do their port and participate in our public database. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:51:55 -0000 From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181044315.686731.247090@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 7:09 am, sig...@gmail.com wrote: > On Jun 5, 6:48 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > The VMS partner database says Feb 27 2007 Brian requested that they no > longer be contacted for updates. Signe, you are a spoilsport. Now it looks like it could be a simple, fixable, misunderstanding, whereas we were having such fun (not!) that this could be a conspiracy! Brian, if there is something to fix, then let's just do so and move on. I can provide your Email Email address to Signe or her's to you if needed. HP wants to stuff that list. It has no reason to drop a potential name other than trying to honor partner request. Oh, how is this for a new story line... someone's out to get you and contacted HP pretending they represented you and HP failed to do a confirmed opt-out? Cheers, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:43:42 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <00A68AD6.159D801A@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <1181041777.885652.166870@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, signem@gmail.com writes: > > >On Jun 5, 6:48 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <1181011943.194494.291...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, sig...@gmail.com writes: >> >> >On Jun 4, 8:30 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> >> In article , "Richard Maher" writes: >> >> >> >Hi Brian, >> >> >> >> Nice to see I'm missing from that list. >> >> >> >You're not alone :-( >> >> >> I'd wager that HP doesn't associate itself with its usenet vocal customers. ;) >> >> >> -- >> >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >> >> >Oops. Let me correct my misstatement. I just found that in February >> >you did respond to us and told us not to contact you for status >> >information in the future. >> >> Oh? I wonder when in February? My wife was just released from the >> hospital and then, we went to the Netherlands. Must have been the >> Cat. I will be sure to beat and flog it severely today for making >> statements out of turn. >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > >The VMS partner database says Feb 27 2007 Brian requested that they no >longer be contacted for updates. Oh? Must have been in one of my altered states. How are they contacting me to get this information? >If this is untrue that I will be happy to get you back on the contact >list and "have a talk" with the person who put this entry in. Sounds like an HP (hallucinatory prevarication) error to me. >Our partner database is an essential part of the health of OpenVMS. >I've seen people on this forum complaining about availability of apps. >Well, when an "outspoken proponent of VMS" refuses to help us keep our >partner information current, what does that do to reinforcing positive >messages to the rest of the partners? Again, I don't know who HP is speaking to but it is most CERTIANLY NOT me. >For Integrity, we have gone from zero to over 1300 applications >committed by partners. Over 1100 of those are available now. But, >actually there are probably more that are being kept secret by >developers who cannot be bothered to respond to our queries. > >Whether they are "Integrity Ready" (ported) or "Integrity >Certified" (have gone through a self certification process that >includes a certification letter to HP), all of these ISV applications >provide the building blocks for a robust customer solution. We will >never have enough of them, but at least we do have a significant >number of partners out there who have enough faith in the future of >VMS to do their port and participate in our public database. HP, AFAIAC, dropped the ball on this. It's just like source listings for Alpha I haven't seen in 2 years. I didn't even get contacted at the beginning of the year this year to renew. OK by me as I would rather get the Itanium listings now. This has been an issue since HP took the reins. I've ported both my own code and code of several other companies that I contract with. I filed the copyright forms (TX) for my code and already have the LoC certificates in hand... that should indicate how long ago I had my code ported. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 05:55:03 -0700 From: signem@gmail.com Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181048103.727204.288350@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 8:43 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <1181041777.885652.166...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, sig...@gmail.com writes: > > >On Jun 5, 6:48 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> In article <1181011943.194494.291...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, sig...@gmail.com writes: > > >> >On Jun 4, 8:30 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> >> In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > >> >> >Hi Brian, > > >> >> >> Nice to see I'm missing from that list. > > >> >> >You're not alone :-( > > >> >> I'd wager that HP doesn't associate itself with its usenet vocal customers. ;) > > >> >> -- > >> >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > >> >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > >> >Oops. Let me correct my misstatement. I just found that in February > >> >you did respond to us and told us not to contact you for status > >> >information in the future. > > >> Oh? I wonder when in February? My wife was just released from the > >> hospital and then, we went to the Netherlands. Must have been the > >> Cat. I will be sure to beat and flog it severely today for making > >> statements out of turn. > > >> -- > >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >The VMS partner database says Feb 27 2007 Brian requested that they no > >longer be contacted for updates. > > Oh? Must have been in one of my altered states. How are they contacting > me to get this information? > > >If this is untrue that I will be happy to get you back on the contact > >list and "have a talk" with the person who put this entry in. > > Sounds like an HP (hallucinatory prevarication) error to me. > > >Our partner database is an essential part of the health of OpenVMS. > >I've seen people on this forum complaining about availability of apps. > >Well, when an "outspoken proponent of VMS" refuses to help us keep our > >partner information current, what does that do to reinforcing positive > >messages to the rest of the partners? > > Again, I don't know who HP is speaking to but it is most CERTIANLY NOT > me. > > >For Integrity, we have gone from zero to over 1300 applications > >committed by partners. Over 1100 of those are available now. But, > >actually there are probably more that are being kept secret by > >developers who cannot be bothered to respond to our queries. > > >Whether they are "Integrity Ready" (ported) or "Integrity > >Certified" (have gone through a self certification process that > >includes a certification letter to HP), all of these ISV applications > >provide the building blocks for a robust customer solution. We will > >never have enough of them, but at least we do have a significant > >number of partners out there who have enough faith in the future of > >VMS to do their port and participate in our public database. > > HP, AFAIAC, dropped the ball on this. It's just like source listings > for Alpha I haven't seen in 2 years. I didn't even get contacted at the > beginning of the year this year to renew. OK by me as I would rather get > the Itanium listings now. This has been an issue since HP took the reins. > > I've ported both my own code and code of several other companies that I > contract with. I filed the copyright forms (TX) for my code and already > have the LoC certificates in hand... that should indicate how long ago I > had my code ported. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Brian, I just sent an email to the address for you in our database and included the phone number we have. If those are not correct, please reply to that message. I would really like to get you "on the list" so that everyone can know what a VMS team player you really are. I've sent you emails myself in the past, inviting you to participate in various events, but no response, so perhaps all of our mails get caught by your spam filter. Signe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 08:35:34 -0500 From: Dan Foster Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: In article <1181048103.727204.288350@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, signem@gmail.com wrote: > I just sent an email to the address for you in our database and > included the phone number we have. If those are not correct, please > reply to that message. I would really like to get you "on the list" so > that everyone can know what a VMS team player you really are. Pardon me -- Mr. Schenkenberger consistently describes himself as a VMS bigot. Works hard on projects that makes VMS look good, as well as donating resources to the community which indirectly makes VMS visible. I do believe he has been every much of a 'team player' for the VMS cause. > I've sent you emails myself in the past, inviting you to participate > in various events, but no response, so perhaps all of our mails get > caught by your spam filter. I find that remark uncalled for. He has the right to decline to attend marketing or promotional events or to reply to things unless it's of particular interest; is his hard work not good enough? Perhaps he prefers to focus on reading up on new tools, techniques, or chase bug reports, look after his family and their needs for companionship and support, or pursue personal non-work interests? He has a free will choice; please respect his, particularly since he is not employed by your employer. Hey. He's flamed me in the past. I probably deserved it. ;) I'm not a VAXman puppet. I'm saying it because I genuinely do mean what I write. Please try to not take it personally. Hey, look at it this way: if he really wasn't interested in VMS, would he have had gone to the effort to secure multiple HP Integrity servers, learned the nuances of porting to that platform, asked why he wasn't on the list? It's because he appears to be interested. So please cut him some slack here. All right? Hewlett Packard has enough issues already and doesn't need to be badmouthing someone whom has made a serious effort to promote OpenVMS in his own way. Please don't go down that road. *PLEASE*. He's not the "enemy". Solaris, Linux, Microsoft, IBM/AIX, whomever is. Keep focus. -Dan (Son of a former HP human resources manager. Dad was proud of HP as a company. Let's live up to that lofty standard if you work for HP.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:33:39 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <00A68AED.D369884A@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <1181048103.727204.288350@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, signem@gmail.com writes: {...snip...} > >Brian, >I just sent an email to the address for you in our database and >included the phone number we have. If those are not correct, please >reply to that message. I would really like to get you "on the list" so >that everyone can know what a VMS team player you really are. > >I've sent you emails myself in the past, inviting you to participate >in various events, but no response, so perhaps all of our mails get >caught by your spam filter. > >Signe I've received nothing. I checked the SPAM filter logs. I excluded any on a RBL. The others were all for Viagra and Cialis (obvioulsy it's not targetted marketing ;) ) and a bunch from MyWaste.com. My "correct" email is in the .sig below. If you send a message to that address _and_ you put [PASS:VAXman] anywhere in the subject line, that message should get to me. If it doesn't, there may be some issue with email inside HP. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:08:14 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <00A68AF2.A84DBFF5@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , Dan Foster writes: > > >In article <1181048103.727204.288350@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, signem@gmail.com wrote: >> I just sent an email to the address for you in our database and >> included the phone number we have. If those are not correct, please >> reply to that message. I would really like to get you "on the list" so >> that everyone can know what a VMS team player you really are. > >Pardon me -- Mr. Schenkenberger consistently describes himself as a VMS >bigot. Works hard on projects that makes VMS look good, as well as >donating resources to the community which indirectly makes VMS visible. > >I do believe he has been every much of a 'team player' for the VMS cause. > >> I've sent you emails myself in the past, inviting you to participate >> in various events, but no response, so perhaps all of our mails get >> caught by your spam filter. > >I find that remark uncalled for. He has the right to decline to attend >marketing or promotional events or to reply to things unless it's of >particular interest; is his hard work not good enough? > >Perhaps he prefers to focus on reading up on new tools, techniques, or >chase bug reports, look after his family and their needs for >companionship and support, or pursue personal non-work interests? FWIW, I do seem to, as correlated with the general population, have disproportionate amounts of luck; unfortunately, it's all *bad* luck. Many of you here know of my litigation woes with my former employer. The abuse of process I witnessed then would have had many check out! At that same time, my son required reconstructive open heart surgery. I myself suffer from diabetes, CRF and numerous adjunct conditions. I have a wife who's half blind from glaucoma and suffers from a seisure disorder. To top off all of that, my daughter became addicted to the worst of the worst, heroin. She robbed us blind. Enough to purchase several new cars (or many Itaniums, Alphas, and Macs ;) ). I've been in court on and off for the past 2+ years because of her crime spree to support her habit. My head is spinning clockwise and counter at the same time. Couple that with work and I have very little time to take up everything HP is inviting me to. I have also been persuing other passions (Photography, concert photography to be specific, and working on an internet radio station http://www.auralmoon.com which is, BTW, running Linux on an Itanium. When/If I get time, I will be moving it to VMS.) as I really have my doubts about making money in the VMS space in coming years. I'm pretty doubtful right now!!! >He has a free will choice; please respect his, particularly since he is >not employed by your employer. > >Hey. He's flamed me in the past. I probably deserved it. ;) I'm not a >VAXman puppet. I'm saying it because I genuinely do mean what I write. I did. I hope I wasn't too harsh. ;) >Please try to not take it personally. Hey, look at it this way: if he >really wasn't interested in VMS, would he have had gone to the effort to >secure multiple HP Integrity servers, learned the nuances of porting to >that platform, asked why he wasn't on the list? It's because he appears >to be interested. So please cut him some slack here. All right? > >Hewlett Packard has enough issues already and doesn't need to be >badmouthing someone whom has made a serious effort to promote OpenVMS in >his own way. Please don't go down that road. *PLEASE*. He's not the >"enemy". Solaris, Linux, Microsoft, IBM/AIX, whomever is. Keep focus. I would ditto the Micro$oft enemy status. If it was up to me, I'd put Micro$oft at the top of the terrorist watch lists. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 09:34:58 -0700 From: tom@kednos.com Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181061298.730046.230270@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Jun 4, 3:58 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <1180997246.934996.112...@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Sue writes: > {...snip...} > > > > >Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profiles > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html I couldn't get that page to open up. > > What is the difference between "Integrity Ready" and "Integrity Certified'? > > Nice to see I'm missing from that list. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:22:08 -0700 From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: VMS Update Monday June 4th Message-ID: <1181064128.626642.89200@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Jun 5, 12:34 pm, t...@kednos.com wrote: > > >Alphabetical listing of OpenVMS business partners and profiles > > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/partners/index.html > > I couldn't get that page to open up. > It worked for me. Firefox 2.0.0.4 and Safari 2.0.4 (419.3) on Mac OS X 10.4.8 ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.306 ************************