INFO-VAX Wed, 01 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 418 Contents: Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Re: decnet only works one way ? DLTIV in SDLT Drive Re: Enabling control_y Re: Enabling control_y Re: Enabling control_y Re: Enabling control_y Re: ES40's won't boot! Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive Re: Is VMSONE.COM off the air permanently? Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: July the 4th Re: Maximum Java Heap Size/OpenVMS Java Experiences? Re: Maximum Java Heap Size/OpenVMS Java Experiences? Re: Maximum Java Heap Size/OpenVMS Java Experiences? Re: Old DEC Monitor quandry Re: Problem spec refinement Re: VMS cluster behind a *NIX firewall Re: What does GEM mean? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:24:59 -0000 From: Pierre Subject: Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Message-ID: <1185971099.163271.224840@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Aug 1, 3:09 am, "John E. Malmberg" wrote: > Pierre wrote: > > hello, > > > in order to compile a project under various versions of CRTL, I would > > like to be able to check by script the presence/absence of some > > function in the CRTL to automatically create a 'good' config.h > > > I would also like to be able to automatically check the presence/ > > absence of system #include. for this I think that something like: > > > $ pipe lib/text/lis sys$library:decc$rtldefs | search sys$pipe > name of the include> > > > will do the trick. > > > any idea regarding the check of the functions ? > > Somewhere I have a DCL script that will read the config.h.in file and > then search for all the symbols. I even have an IA64 variant of it. > > To find the functions, you need to search the shared libraries. > > And depending on what you are looking for, you have to search the X11, > LDAP, Kerberos, and OpenSSL images also. And there may be some that I > forgot. > > I had to put a lot of special cases in it. > > I have not used it since GNV can now process most configure scripts. > > See the GNV directory at ftp.encompasserve.org for some examples of how > to use it. Binaries for updating ALPHA VMS 8.2 to the new functionality > are present. > > -John > wb8...@qsl.network > Personal Opinion Only I tryied to use GNV + ./configure on the libxml2 configure but got those errors: bash$ ./configure %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special characters \.SH\ %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling \HOSTINFO\ checking build system type... %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling \MKTEMP\ %DCL-E-NOTFR, no transfer address %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling \HOSTINFO\ config.sub: too many arguments Try `config.sub --help' for more information. configure: error: /bin/sh ./config.sub %CC-W-EMPTYFILE, Source file does not contain any declarations. %ILINK-W-COMPWARN, compilation warnings module: DUMMY file: SYS$SYSDEVICE:[LIBSRC.LIBXML2-2_6_29]dummy.o;3 %ILINK-W-USRTFR, image SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYSTEM.cg20166-26795]dummy.;1 has no user transfer address failed did I missed something ? TIA Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:05:31 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Message-ID: Pierre wrote: > in order to compile a project under various versions of CRTL, I would > like to be able to check by script the presence/absence of some > function in the CRTL to automatically create a 'good' config.h > > I would also like to be able to automatically check the presence/ > absence of system #include. for this I think that something like: > > $ pipe lib/text/lis sys$library:decc$rtldefs | search sys$pipe name of the include> > > will do the trick. > > any idea regarding the check of the functions ? [Later responses indicate this is libxml2 2.6.29.] Which C function(s) and which include and which OpenVMS release(s)? The way HP traditionally snagged the RTL information was via conditional compilation and the C RTL version string. I've not seen much of anything needed in the system services or such for libxml2, but there is also a VMS version pre-processor define. From these, you generally end up assembling a set of nested conditionals. Which is ugly. Alternatively, you assemble the code for the oldest routine, and jacket the conditionals in a separate module -- often vms.c -- and conditionalize that. When working here, one of the most useful C features is the CC /FIRST_INCLUDE mechanism. From that, you can insert an include into the compilation to override missing C functions off into those in your vms.c module, and other similar functions. (Do not use the same symbol or function name as a standard C function! Please! Have your own redefinition of mumblefratz over to mumblefratz_vms.) I'd tend to start with the existing port of libxml2 against 2.6.24 and then apply the changes against 2.6.29 using a comparison tool such as http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/hoffman_examples/diff_directories.com There is a build procedure included in the procedure, and it does for OpenVMS what autoconf and the configure script does for Linux. (It's also a whole lot simpler, but then it's also highly platform-tailored.) The autoconf tool and configure scripts are evil and non-portable constructs, and largely intended to (mostly, some hand-editing seems inevitably required) work only on Linux and close-to-Linux environments. Current GNV gets you most of the way there and John and others have done Yeoman work, but there are still basic design flaws in the whole approach used by autoconf; it's a front-end preprocessor onto a shell, rather than a build engine. When posting a question, details such as package (here libxml2 2.6.29, apparently) and OpenVMS version(s) and compiler version(s) can be of central interest. Further, proposed solutions are useful details, but so is the background on the problem. This isn't intended to be rude, this is to get you an answer best tailored to your particular question and your situation. I'm semi-inclined to re-port libxml2, but my schedule for that project probably isn't the same as yours. (If you're in a sufficient hurry, I can be bribed.) -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 13:49:11 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Message-ID: Pierre wrote: > > I tryied to use GNV + ./configure on the libxml2 configure but got > those errors: > > bash$ ./configure > %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special > characters > \.SH\ > > did I missed something ? Yes. Please get the kits from ftp.encompasserve.org in the gnv directory and extract the source kits and readme files from them. GNV Bash has a broken DCL fallback setting that is on by default, and that prevents it from processing many real UNIX scripts. The DCL fallback is only supposed to kick in if it can not find a image to execute, but is instead kicking in at other times. There are other dragons present, so I would strongly recommend that you start with something like pkg-config and look it over. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:14:05 -0000 From: Pierre Subject: Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Message-ID: <1185977645.131324.246310@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Aug 1, 3:05 pm, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Pierre wrote: > [Later responses indicate this is libxml2 2.6.29.] > > Which C function(s) and which include and which OpenVMS release(s)? OpenVMS 8.3 on Itanium (__VMS_VER=80300022, __ia64=1, __ia64__=1, __CRTL_VER=80300000) HP C V7.2 (__DECC_VER=70290001) libxml2 2.6.29 libxslt 1.1.21 xmlstarlet 1.0.1 any function/include that have a HAVE_ in the config_h.in I have no problem to rebuilt these 3 products. I found all needed information in $ HELP CRTL but as I have many versions of OpenVMS (from 7.2-1 to 8.3) running various harware (Itanium, AXP) I was trying to have a config.sys that allows me to compile on any of these environments. and on success, give it for the freeware CD. I found valuable informations in $ HELP CRTL Version-Dependency_Tables but this help only gives the OpenVMS version into which the function appears, not the __CRTL_VER value to check against. [...] > When posting a question, details such as package (here libxml2 > 2.6.29, apparently) and OpenVMS version(s) and compiler version(s) can > be of central interest. Further, proposed solutions are useful > details, but so is the background on the problem. This isn't intended > to be rude, this is to get you an answer best tailored to your > particular question and your situation. the question was was general as the answer may apply to any un*x tool, not only the one I'm currently working on > I'm semi-inclined to re-port libxml2, but my schedule for that > project probably isn't the same as yours. (If you're in a sufficient > hurry, I can be bribed.) I re-built these tools starting from the official .tar.gz as I forgot to cheked the freeware CD :( do the freeware CD versions have many differences ? TIA Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 14:24:14 -0000 From: Pierre Subject: Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Message-ID: <1185978254.810348.56090@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 1, 3:49 pm, "John E. Malmberg" wrote: > Pierre wrote: > > > I tryied to use GNV + ./configure on the libxml2 configure but got > > those errors: > > > bash$ ./configure > > %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special > > characters > > \.SH\ > > > did I missed something ? > > Yes. Please get the kits from ftp.encompasserve.org in the gnv > directory and extract the source kits and readme files from them. > > GNV Bash has a broken DCL fallback setting that is on by default, and > that prevents it from processing many real UNIX scripts. > > The DCL fallback is only supposed to kick in if it can not find a image > to execute, but is instead kicking in at other times. > > There are other dragons present, so I would strongly recommend that you > start with something like pkg-config and look it over. how do I extract things from pcsi compressed files ? Pierre ------------------------------ Date: 1 Aug 2007 17:26:18 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: CC: check the presence of functions and system #include Message-ID: <46b0c23a$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <1185978254.810348.56090@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Pierre writes: >how do I extract things from pcsi compressed files ? with PRODUCT just as with the pcsi uncompressed files ;-) Now serious: To extract the release notes (only if the kits contains some) $ PRODUCT EXTRACT RELEASE_NOTES product [/FILE=dirspec] [/qualifier] To extract a single file $ PRODUCT EXTRACT FILE product /SELECT=filespec [/DEST=dirspec] [/qualifier] To unpack a .PCSI$COMPRESSED file (into a directory tree) $ PRODUCT COPY product /DEST=dirspec /FORMAT=REFERENCE [/qualifier] To convert a .PCSI$COMPRESED file to a .PCSI (for installation on older VMS versions like on VAX - only if the layered product is also supported there) $ PRODUCT COPY product /DEST=dirspec /FORMAT=SEQUENTIAL [/qualifier] To convert a .PCSI file to a .PCSI$COMPRESSED file (to save kitdiskspace) $ PRODUCT COPY product /DEST=dirspec /FORMAT=COMPRESSED [/qualifier] HIH -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:32:41 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: decnet only works one way ? Message-ID: In article <1185919598.486686.57320@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, magalettac@hotmail.com wrote: > Set host issue..... > I believe everything to be configured correctly > VMS 8.3 / decent_plus > > Node A > Set host (to any node) no problem > telnet out of this node (no problem) > > >From any other VMS node > Telnet into node A (no problem) > Set hos into node A (host currently unreachable error message) > Set hos to decnet address (host currently unreachable error message) > > Node A just does not want to pick up the phone ? > > Any ideas and Thanks, > Carmine Check that all the nodes are defined correctly in MC DECNET_REGISTER. Do this on every node. Then do a $ mcr ncl flush session control naming cache entry "*" again, on every node. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:54:12 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: DLTIV in SDLT Drive Message-ID: <1%1si.14565$ae7.4283@bignews7.bellsouth.net> Before I tell my customer he has messed up his tape drive He tried backing up to a DLTIV tape in a SDLT1 tape drive) I was wondering if I am correct in the assumption that you can only READ DLTIV and not write to them. I don't really want to try this here as they are still not yet cheap. Comments?!? David -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 T: 877-6364332 x201 Intl: 001 912 447 6622 E: dturner@islandco.com F: 912 201 0402 W: http://www.islandco.com ------------------------------ Date: 1 Aug 2007 06:10:11 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Enabling control_y Message-ID: In article <1185832109.822903.65330@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter writes: > On Jul 30, 4:13 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: >> Is there any set terminal command to enable control_y in a terminal ? >> I create a procedure with command: >> $ on control_y then goto bypass >> but anytimes when I press control_ y it doesn=B4t work... >> ( I don=B4t see "interrupt" on the terminal...)" >> Thank you > > apogeuiste, > > The command to enable/disable CNTRL keys is: > > $ SET CONTROL=Y According to my testing, this is not the issue. If I understand things properly, $ SET CONTROL=Y will control whether DCL has a registered set attention AST for control-Y. But it will not prevent the *interrupt* from being displayed when the user presses control-Y. $ SET TERM /PASTHRU will disable control-Y by preventing the terminal driver from recognizing control-Y as being special. This will prevent the *interrupt* from being displayed. [For most purposes, control-Y behaves just like carriage return in this mode]. $ SET TERM /NOPASTHRU will re-enable control-Y if this is the issue. Obviously a $QIO that does a IO$_SETMODE or IO$_SETCHAR that sets the PASTRHRU characteristic would have an identical effect. I'm less certain about the transient effect of a $QIO write with IO$M_NOFORMAT or of a $QIO read with IO$M_NOFILTR. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Aug 2007 08:06:10 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Enabling control_y Message-ID: In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: [...] > the PASTRHRU characteristic would have an identical effect. I'm less > certain about the transient effect of a $QIO write with IO$M_NOFORMAT > or of a $QIO read with IO$M_NOFILTR. On reflection, I'm pretty sure that IO$M_NOFILTR permits control-Y. The read operation that might not is IO$_TTYREADPALL. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:30:17 -0000 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Re: Enabling control_y Message-ID: <1185982217.018868.111370@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On 1 ago, 10:06, bri...@encompasserve.org wrote: > In article , bri...@encompasserve.= org writes: > > [...] > > > the PASTRHRU characteristic would have an identical effect. I'm less > > certain about the transient effect of a $QIO write with IO$M_NOFORMAT > > or of a $QIO read with IO$M_NOFILTR. > > On reflection, I'm pretty sure that IO$M_NOFILTR permits control-Y. > The read operation that might not is IO$_TTYREADPALL. In my job I create a command procedure with $ set control_y and $ on control_y then goto bypass but anytimes when I issue set h vax2 and run the procedure, control_y doesn=B4t work. I=B4m using a VT100 terminal. I=B4ll put set term/nopastrhru in the procedure. Thanks ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:44:17 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Enabling control_y Message-ID: <1185986657.581418.279510@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On 1 Aug, 16:30, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > On 1 ago, 10:06, bri...@encompasserve.org wrote: > > > In article , bri...@encompasserv= e=2Eorg writes: > > > [...] > > > > the PASTRHRU characteristic would have an identical effect. I'm less > > > certain about the transient effect of a $QIO write with IO$M_NOFORMAT > > > or of a $QIO read with IO$M_NOFILTR. > > > On reflection, I'm pretty sure that IO$M_NOFILTR permits control-Y. > > The read operation that might not is IO$_TTYREADPALL. > > In my job I create a command procedure with > $ set control_y > and > $ on control_y then goto bypass > > but anytimes when I issue > set h vax2 > and run the procedure, control_y doesn=B4t work. > I=B4m using a VT100 terminal. > I=B4ll put set term/nopastrhru in the procedure. > Thanks ! What do you do within the procedure? Is the set host vax2 outside the procedure or is that the object of the procedure? Ergo, is the context of the job that you're communicating with staying the same or are you creating another job (using set host xxx)? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 10:16:49 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: ES40's won't boot! Message-ID: <1185988609.223464.157460@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On 30 Jul, 23:49, Rich Jordan wrote: > On Jul 30, 4:21 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:06:25 -0700, Tom Linden wrote: > > > On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 07:26:19 -0700, Tom Wade > > > wrote: > > > >>> Works for me. > > >>> When I got my ES40s I plugged a cable into on of the DB9 ports > > >>> (without > > >>> having consulted the documentation) and it gave me the familiar > > > >> It still isn't the real console. When SRM is running, it will issue a > > >> prompt and accept commands on all three serial interfaces. Once you > > >> start the boot sequence, only the real console will be active. The > > >> other two serial lines will be unusable until VMS is running. This is > > >> what the original poster saw. > > > >> I believe (though I haven't tried it) that > > > >> - VMS can only be halted by CTRL/P on the real console. > > >> - RMC only works on the real console. > > > > I will try it out when I get a chance > > > I attached a cable to the MMJ port and one to COM1 > > The MMJ port prints the message "Remote login or bypas RMC" and reprints > > the > > message no matter which key is struck, including ^P, ^c, ^Z > > The COM1 port prints the usual POST stuff and ends with the >>> prompt, but > > when booting it is unresponsive to ^P > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------- > > >> Tom Wade | EMail: tee dot wade at eurokom dot ie > > >> EuroKom | Tel: +353 (1) 296-9696 > > >> A2, Nutgrove Office Park | Fax: +353 (1) 296-9697 > > >> Rathfarnham | Disclaimer: This is not a disclaimer > > >> Dublin 14 | Tip: "Friends don't let friends do Unix !" > > >> Ireland > > > -- > > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com > > I don't have an ES40. That said, the docs indicate comm port 1 is > dedicated port for a modem connection to a remote management console, > comm port 2 is a general serial port, and the MMJ is the console. > > Is it possible there's a setting that makes the ES40 prefer the > 'remote management console' port? > > Have you tried entering the RMC on the console ( "rmc" if I > remember correctly)? > > Have you checked the COM1_MODE environment variable? It may be set to > one of the alternate data modes defined around page 96 in the manual > linked earlier ( http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/download/es40og_revb.pdf > ) > > Do you have a PS2 keyboard plugged in? > > Thats all I can think of.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - On the subject of PS2 keyboards, I've seen two ES47s hang in the manner described when they had non-HP VMS-style keyboards on them. Get a banner for VMS booting and then nothing else. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 10:12:59 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive Message-ID: In article <07073105454533_202003EE@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: "P. Sture" > > > > For the record, VMS VAX installation save sets (VMS%%%.%) must be in > > > the [000000] directory, or else the installation will fail. (VMS%%%.B > > > may be an exception, when it's handled manually, outside the normal > > > installation procedure, but it's normally found in the same place as the > > > others, and they must be in [000000].) > > > > Is the [000000] restriction still true? Maybe I'm dreaming, but I > > thought it had been relaxed at some point. > > According to the "OpenVMS VAX Version 7.3 Upgrade and Installation > Manual", > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6630/6630pro_003.html > > The procedure prompts you to specify which drive holds the > distribution kit. Enter the device name for the source drive. > > If all you can specify is a device name, where will it look for the > files? > > In "Chapter 5 Before Upgrading the OpenVMS VAX Operating System", > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6630/6630pro_006.html > > it still says: > > 5.1.7 Save Set Location > > If you move the OpenVMS VAX save sets from the distribution media > to the system disk or some other disk before beginning the > upgrade, the save sets must be in the [000000] directory of the > disk, or the upgrade will fail. > > [...] > > > But if you can demonstrate that it works when they're somewhere else, > I'll be happy to gain enlightenment. > I must indeed have been dreaming. I stand corrected. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:26:34 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive Message-ID: Robert Jarratt wrote: > That is because it wasn't a report, just explaining why I was interested in > the RRD42. To be honest I also can't remember all the drives I tried, the > ones I remember were: > > Sony CDU 55S > RRD43 > CR-506B The VAXstation 3100 model 38 has reasonably standard SCSI, and works with most (all?) of the 512-byte CD drives I've tried with it over the years. I'd be surprised if a properly-configured and functional RRD43 drive didn't work with a VAXstation 3100, or most any other old SCSI-capable VAX. (Well, the VAXstation 2000 and MicroVAX 2000 external bus was "almost SCSI"...) There exists a partial list of CD drives seen with OpenVMS over at http://64.223.189.234/node/12 Also see http://64.223.189.234/node/342 for some related. The biggest problem I've seen with older CD drives involves media incompatibilities. These drives are as old or other than the beginning of widespread use of recordable media formats, and these formats can be quite difficult for the older drives due to differences in reflectivity. The RRD42 has particular problems with some media formulations, but I've seen various sorts of media incompatibilities across all of the drives. Newer drives tend to have far fewer issues. I've seen any number of SCSI issues over the years, whether due to bus under- or over-termination, addressing collisions, over-long buses, or bad cables or other such. The ISO path -- raw disk images -- is not for the inexperienced system manager. It can and does work, but it's not as easy due to differences in file structures. There's a document on working with CD media and with the creation of bootable CD media for OpenVMS systems available at http://64.223.189.234/node/28 If a CD installation kit is available, what I generally end up doing in this case is BACKUP /IMAGE over to a scratch magnetic disk. Then the disk is transfered over to the target device, and it can then be booted directly, and installed onto (or can upgrade) a disk on the target system. I can and do use this approach if there are time constraints with the target system, or if I'm upgrading multiple systems, or if I'm using a low-speed CD drive -- life is just too short to use an RRD42, or most any other CD drive less than 8x for that matter. Scratch RZ-class disks and BA356 shelves are very cheap on eBay. If you're married to an ancient VAX, a BA353 pizza box is a very handy box. It's very compact, a good monitor stand, easily stacked, and easy to configure as each slot can be individually configured and addressed. See http://64.223.189.234/node/54 for some related details. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:28:05 -0400 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Is VMSONE.COM off the air permanently? Message-ID: Rich Jordan wrote: > Is VMSONE.COM gone for good? For the past couple of weeks I've been > unable to get to it (connections time out), and at least one post in > June noted it was not reachable. The likely owner of the box has been pinged. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 05:59:56 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: On 07/31/07 18:36, AEF wrote: > On Jul 31, 3:23 am, Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 07/29/07 15:26, David J Dachtera wrote: >> >>> Ron Johnson wrote: >>>> On 07/29/07 02:16, Paul Raulerson wrote: >>>> [snip] >>>>> Just what exactly do you find wrong with that picture, beyond the >>>>> fact you have exaggerated the analogy? Your own history is pretty >>>>> well fraught with fighting those exact same "Indians." The >>>>> Netherlands has fought against Muslims for quite a while, >>>>> including ganging up against them with Portugal in Malaysia. >>>> Three words: Theo van Gogh. >>>>> Muslims never bothered us much before they starting slamming >>>>> airplanes into buildings. We never bothered them until they did >>>>> that either. Also remember, that wasn't their first attempt- just >>>>> their first really successful one. >>>> Two more words: Achille Lauro. >>> ...and as I implied at another point in all this, the fact that the flight crews >>> of those two planes LET them be flown into the WTC will stand before the entire >>> world as testimony to the U.S.'s greatest weakness. >> Boy do I agree with that!!!!! >> >> Since the 1970s, Americans[0] have been, in essence, told to bend >> over and accept being terrorized, raped, beaten, mugged, etc. >> >> The men of United 93 did a much greater service to this country than >> "just" preventing that plane from crashing into the WH or Capitol. >> >> [0] And possibly the Europeans too, but there's a different dynamic >> there, given that there haven't been pioneers in Europe since the >> neolithic era. >> >> -- >> Ron Johnson, Jr. >> Jefferson LA USA > [...] > > I believe the women on flight 93 helped out, too. Sure. But they weren't the ones taking the offensive. We'll never know if they urged the counter-attack. > Anyway, help me out here. The people on flight 93 KNEW that the other > planes were deliberately slammed into buildings. They KNEW it was DO > OR DIE. The people on the other flights DID NOT KNOW THAT. Until 9/11, > hijackers usually don't slam the plane into a building or anything > else that kills everyone aboard. IIRC they usually take the plane to a > hostile country or make some demands or whatever. Also, the 9/11 > hijackers probably killed the pilots. I really find it hard to believe > any pilot would allow someone to fly his plane into a building. Are > the two of you blaming the pilots for getting killed? Of course not. You're merging me with JF, and it's affecting your judgment. > Don't forget > that the element of surprise can be an enormous advantage. What did > you expect them to do? Act like sheep, and hope that The Government Saved Them. In how many school shootings or bank robberies have the people who had the capacity to Do Something not done it, because they've been conditioned by The Authorities to Wait For Rescue? Lots. Three cheers for Liviu Librescu and the various others who sacrificed themselves to save others at VA Tech. > Talk about blaming the victim. Talk about being overcritical. As stated earlier, you are misinterpreting me. > Ron, > > Your other posts in this thread are very good. Thanks! > > AEF > -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 12:39:43 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: >On 07/30/07 12:41, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >[snip] >> >> Are you really that ignorant of the situation ? >> Yasser Arafat and the PLO accepted Israels right to exist over a decade ago !! >> This was formally confirmed when Arafat exchanged letters of PLO-Israel >> recognition with the Yitzhak Rabin in 1993. >> >> See http://www.earlham.edu/~pss/yasser_arafat.htm > >More sayings of Chairman Arafat, *after* he "accepted" Israel's >right to exist... > >Newspaper interview, Al-Quds, May 10, 1998: > > Question: Do you feel sometimes that you made a mistake in > agreeing to Oslo? > > Arafat: No... no. Allah's messenger Mohammad accepted the > al-Khudaibiya peace treaty and Salah a-Din accepted the peace > agreement with Richard the Lion-Hearted." > > [Note: Salah a-Din (Saladin) was the Muslim leader who, after > a cease-fire, declared a jihad against the Crusaders and > captured Jerusalem] Richard was only involved in the third crusade which occurred after Saladin had captured Jerusalem. I'd think that Arafat was referring to the treaty of Ramia in 1192. Saladin died in 1193 not long after Richard's departure. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin Saladin's descendant al-Kamil gave the city to the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II in 1228. It was then conquered by the Khawarizmi Turks in 1244 who were then replaced by the Mamelukes in 1260. The city was then conquered by the Ottoman Turks in 1517 who maintained control until the 20th Century. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem#Shifts_in_control David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University > >Published in the official PA newspaper Al-Hayat Al-Jadeeda, April >16, 1998: > > My colleagues in struggle and in arms, my colleagues in > struggle and in jihad. Intensify the revolution and the blessed > intifada. Reinforce the strong stance and strengthen the faith. > We must burn the ground under the feet of the invaders. > >Speech to the Organization of the Islamic Conference's Jerusalem >Committee in Morocco on July 29, 1998 (Al-Hayat Al-Jadeeda, July >30, 1998): > > with Arab and Islamic assistance, this shall be our faithful > jihad (holy war) - to defend holy Jerusalem from the danger > of Judaization and the Zionist plot." > >Leading Palestinian marchers in a chant, broadcast on official >Palestinian television on May 14, 1998 > > With our soul and blood we will redeem you O Palestine! > >-- >Ron Johnson, Jr. >Jefferson LA USA > >Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. >Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:52:22 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: July the 4th Message-ID: In article <1185925991.267428.175810@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: >On Jul 31, 1:30 pm, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article <1185761687.729407.239...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes:>On Jul 29, 8:58 pm, JF Mezei wrote: >> >> AEF wrote: >> >> > It doesn't matter what the US does. Hamas, Hezbollah, etc., want to >> >> > destroy the state of Israel. THEY'VE PLAINLY AND LOUDLY SAID SO! >> >> >> They acceptance of Israel's existance will be the RESULT of succesful >> >> negotiations. The USA/Israel require them to accept Israel as a >> >> pre-condition for negotiations. >> >> >Ridiculous. How do you negotiate with someone who wants to destroy >> >you? I don't think Hamas or Hezbollah even wants to negotiate. Fatah >> >maybe. >> >> Although Hamas doesn't officially recognise Israel they definitely want the >> establishment of a Palestinian state and have recognised the existence of > >So why do they not make the right moves to make a state? They could >have had a state numerous times. > >> Israel as a reality both now and after the formation of such a state >> >> see >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1802862,00.html > >It appears that Hamas did this under pressure from Abbas according to >this article. Now that Hamas has defeated Fatah in Gaza I suspect it >may not mean anything anymore. > >And why are they still firing rockets into Israel? They got their land >back. Why don't they stop fighting Israel and start building a >country? > >> >> and >> >> http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/israel-a-reality-hamas-leader-admits... > >This article seems to show the Hamas leader admitting Israel is here >to stay. But they still have their priorities wrong. > >> >> The only way out of this conflict is for bitter enemies to negotiate in good >> faith. > >Good luck. > >> Who would have thought that Gerry Adam's Sinn Fein and Ian Paisley's >> DUP could be working together in running Northern Ireland a decade ago. > >There's a big difference: Sinn Fein never had plans to kill all the >Britons and take over the UK. They had much more limited objectives. >Something about a parade in a certain town in N. Ireland and a say in >N. Ireland matters or whatever. Anyway, I make no judgments on that >matter in this post. I'm just pointing out the enormous difference in >goals. Too much difference to make this analogy useful. > What ?????????? You obviously know nothing about the IRA. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >> >> David Webb >> Security team leader >> CCSS >> Middlesex University >> >[...] > >AEF > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 01:45:02 -0700 From: urbancamo Subject: Re: Maximum Java Heap Size/OpenVMS Java Experiences? Message-ID: <1185957902.733019.164580@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Guy Peleg reports that: The Java heap size limit is hard coded to 1500MB on OpenVMS. Java engineering plan to remove this restriction with a future release. I have been working with several customers whose entire application is Java based. The key for Java performance on OpenVMS is to be running Java 5 on OpenVMS V8.3 using Itanium based servers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 01:49:36 -0700 From: urbancamo Subject: Re: Maximum Java Heap Size/OpenVMS Java Experiences? Message-ID: <1185958176.332831.198780@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com> > Guy Peleg reports that: > > The Java heap size limit is hard coded to 1500MB on OpenVMS. Java > engineering plan to remove this restriction with a future release. I'm developing a Multi Agent Simulation where each agent runs as a separate thread. Large numbers of threads consume large amounts of memory. Hence the question. On Windows 32 bit the maximum amount of memory that can be allocated is approximately 1.6 GB. On Linux 32 bit I've heard of more, but it is the same order of magnitude. For my simulation I would estimate that I would need of the order of 8-16GB of memory. Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 10:46:05 -0700 From: sean@obanion.us Subject: Re: Maximum Java Heap Size/OpenVMS Java Experiences? Message-ID: <1185990365.187329.66340@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Out of sheer curiosity and thinking it would be easy, I tried to find in the on-line documentation what the current maximum WSMAX value is, since it looks like that's the next limit. Going to the OpenVMS online docs and entering WSMAX in the convenient search box, I got one hit the System Management Utilities Reference Manual of September 2003 that talked about Authorize and the limits on WSQUOTA ... so it wasn't that easy. Moving on to Google, I got an early, promising hit on a 2002 presentation of Christian Moser's though an Oracle website, http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/rdb/pdf/2002_tech_forums/rdbtf_2002_itanium.pdf that boasted a "18GB WSMAX." Well, that's closer to an answer, but not really documentation. The Google hits wandered through various other vendors that might have been useful, but where is an authoritative answer? Figuring I might know a little more after 20 years of using VMS, I looked in the System Manager's Manual v2 for WSMAX and found one mention in the section on "Managing the Vector Processing Environment (VAX Only) ". Well ... System Management Utilities Reference Manual under System Parameters? No. SPD? No. After about 15 minutes, I stopped. Experience wan't helping either. Now, I'm sure someone here knows off hand what the limit to WSMAX is, and if I keep looking I'm sure I can find it. But the point of this exercise is to try coming from a point of ignorance, and besides asking here, how would some find current SYSGEN parameter limits? Or as a larger qustion, if someone like the parent author wasn't really into VMS, but was trying to find out what some of it's maximum configuration limits are, because they might have or want to buy some Big Iron, where should they be looking? OK, now I have to go do some real work... Sean On Aug 1, 1:45 am, urbancamo wrote: > Guy Peleg reports that: > > The Java heap size limit is hard coded to 1500MB on OpenVMS. Java > engineering plan to remove this restriction with a future release. > > I have been working with several customers whose entire application > is > Java based. The key for Java performance on OpenVMS is to be running > Java 5 on OpenVMS V8.3 using Itanium based servers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 15:02:31 +0100 From: "Maciej W. Rozycki" Subject: Re: Old DEC Monitor quandry Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jul 2007, Verne wrote: > see the thread > > VGA video adapter for Vaxstation 4000 model 60 > > at > > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/993aec8e7249992c > > that talks some about VGA cables and adapters (including a detailed > post of > mine on several options I have used, including one on my 19 inch > ViewSonic LCD). Thanks for the reference. Actually, to be clear, the 17-04816-01 is a male 3W3 to female HD15 adapter cable, so it works even with VGA-compatible monitors that only have a captive HD15 input cable (sync-on-green is required as there is no signal splitter in the adapter of any kind). Though at the moment I use it with a Sun-branded monitor, which has a captive 13W3 input cable, so I use an HD15 to 13W3 adapter cable inbetween as well. And to be regarded as an utter heretic I shall remark I use it with my VAXstation 4000 Model 90 under Linux, with a TURBOchannel graphics adapter (the PMAGD-CA is a nice 24-plane one) as the console output device. By now I have certainly voided each and every warranty that might have ever been applicable to pieces of hardware involved. ;-) And yes, the 17-04816-01 is genuine d|i|g|i|t|a|l too -- moulded in the HD15 connector (the 3W3 end is plain). I suppose sparks should be coming from the connection with the Sun part sometimes. ;-) Maciej ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:32:41 -0400 From: Michael Corbett Subject: Re: Problem spec refinement Message-ID: <46B08B79.1040907@process.com> Richard Maher wrote: > > I've got two sheep stations and an oil-rig that says Multinet is not > resetting the OOB flag after a succesful oob read; Let's see your cards! Any > chance someone's gonna fix this? I won't take that bet. I will bet that an upcoming UCXDRIVER ECO will contain a fix for this. > > Nobody using OOB functionality with Multinet? No application development > with Multinet/ Just use the spoon-fed tools out of the box? If it ain't SSH > it just ain't? You really need UCX if you're serious about rolling your own? > I can't recall a customer call that ever mentioned OOB. I don't know if any of the MultiNet applications make use of it, I think telnet might but it doesn't use BG. We try to make Multinet's UCXDRIVER compatible with UCX's but obviously we sometimes fail. We do try to fix things when they are reported to us. regards Mike > Cheers Richard Maher > > PS. I've also tried *not* resetting the OOB AST a second time to see if > Multinet is a set and forget type of thing, but then it only fires the once > (as documented). > > PPS. I'm the guy that found the buffer-overflowing stack-corrupter that is > Multinet's io$_acpcontrol (at least for inetacp$c_trans > inetacp_func$c_gethostbyaddr). > > PPPS. I still believe Multinet is trigger-happy with ss$_suspend leading it > to conceal a broken network connection when ss$_linkdiscon would be the > appropriate error status, but I'll have to change my OOBATTN testing to > READATTN testing and that issue isn't really bothering me anyway. (If I'm > wrong I will report back) > > "Richard Maher" wrote in message > news:f8haps$o5a$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au... >> Hi, >> >> This question's easier than the first one so please help if you've done >> this. I'd simply like to see a $QIO _BG: driver example example of a > server >> (or client) receiving an OOB character (*NOT* IN-LINED) from their partner >> and displaying it. I have code that works perfectly well on UCX and > TCPware >> but on Multinet the following happens: - >> >> My works and the AST fires as expected. >> Then I go to read the OOB character with a $qio >> plus ucx$c_msg_oob as P4 - and the results I get vary from ss$_badparam to >> ss$_suspended >> So I say great, it was a false alarm and reset the OOBATTN AST which then >> fires immediately and says "Nope there's definitely an OOB character here! >> (It's just that we're not gonna let you read it, so loop around madly for > a >> while :-)" >> >> Has anyone else experienced this or alternatively got a working example >> they'd be willing to share? >> >> Is the ss$_badparam really telling me there's a bad parameter and not just > a >> missing OOB? >> Would a previous io$_sensemode have interfered with the sioatmark? >> Is there some incantation or dead-chicken-waving such as >> rather than using P4 flags? >> (As a side issue and although I can't produce an example here, I am also >> open to the idea that elsewhere Multinet will return a ss$_suspended to a >> non-blocking read even if the pipe is broken, but that's one for another >> day) >> >> I must be doing something wrong but the fact that it's rockin' and rollin' >> on UCX is a bit off-putting. >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> Cheers Richard Maher >> >> PS. Is it just me that thinks TCPware is a *whole* lot more UCX BG Driver >> compatible than Multinet? >> >> >> "David J Dachtera" wrote in message >> news:46A22998.AA9FBC45@spam.comcast.net... >>> Richard Maher wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Alpha VMS 7.3-1 and Multinet 5.0 and the $QIO interface to the BG: >> driver. >>>> When I try to set the Socket Option ucx$c_full_duplex_close (on its > own, >> or >>>> in the same call to create the socket) I get SS$_PROTOCOL returned. >>>> >>>> This option is obviously available in UCX, and the TCPWare docs say > it's >>>> been supported for the last ten years but somehow it's never been >> included >>>> with Multinet. Is that correct? Is there a version later than 5.0 that >>>> supports it? >>>> >>>> I'm now having to code around the problem (by trying for FDC and if I >> get >>>> ss$_protocol then drop the option) but full_duplex_close is a pretty >> damned >>>> useful piece of functionality and I'm really curious as to the reasons >>>> behind the lack of support or whether there are any plans to include > it >> in a >>>> future version? >>> I've cross-posted to the Multinet newsgroup. Perhaps someone from PSC > will >>> respond. >>> >>> -- >>> David J Dachtera >>> dba DJE Systems >>> http://www.djesys.com/ >>> >>> Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page >>> http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ >>> >>> Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: >>> http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >>> >>> Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: >>> http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ >>> >>> Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: >>> http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 12:25:06 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht Subject: Re: VMS cluster behind a *NIX firewall Message-ID: <20070801112506.GB790@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk> On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 08:45:34PM -0500, Paul Raulerson wrote: > > It sounds to me like our friend here is involved in a "prove it!" issue with > the VMS systems, and so getting them up and running is more profitable than > worrying about SPOF issues right now; let the SPOF issues become a problem > for the "unix people" would be my way of handling it. that's about right -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:25:36 -0000 From: Steve Lionel Subject: Re: What does GEM mean? Message-ID: <1185989136.815540.121940@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com> FredK wrote: > > I found this an interesting read: > > > http://www.valuesearchfunds.com/userFiles/Essay_Oct_2005.pdf Schwartzmann says, in this article, "The GEM family was also retargeted for MIPS and x86 machines but did not become a noticeable offering for these architectures." I'm not sure what planet he is on, but Digital/Compaq Visual Fortran certainly was noticeable and a roaring success for a GEM-based x86 compiler, handily whomping all competitors in the Windows market. What was especially amazing about this was that the GEM team treated x86 as a second-class platform, withholding optimizations that were done for Alpha and assigning junior team members to the x86 side. Imagine what it would have done if the GEM team had not held back on x86. >From my own perspective, admittedly biased, GEM was much more successful than Schwartzmann gives credit for and the Itanium port was relatively painless. The author of this paper is unknown to me - he must have left DEC before I joined (1978). Steve ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.418 ************************