INFO-VAX Fri, 10 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 436 Contents: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE Re: Integrity Workstations? Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Jobs from all job sites - at one place, in one Gladoo search (www.Gladoo.com) Oldest Alpha for upgrade to Integrity OT: iWork 08 is unnacceptably slow on my iBook. Was: Re: X Window Servers Re: OT: iWork 08 is unnacceptably slow on my iBook. Was: Re: X Window Servers Re: OT: iWork 08 is unnacceptably slow on my iBook. Was: Re: X Window Servers Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ? Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ? Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ? Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ? Re: VMS cluster behind a *NIX firewall RE: What VMS does RIGHT! Re: What VMS does RIGHT! Re: What VMS does RIGHT! Re: What VMS does RIGHT! Re: What VMS does RIGHT! RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion champion c RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion champion c Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion champion c Re: X Window Servers Re: X Window Servers Re: X Window Servers Re: X Window Servers Re: X Window Servers Re: X Window Servers Re: X Window Servers Re: X Window Servers Re: X Window Servers Re: X Window Servers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:58:18 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE Message-ID: In article , norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > "P. Sture" wrote on 08/09/2007 01:18:17 AM: > > > In article > > , > > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On fait ce q'on peut. > > > > > > > > > Talking of "little grey cells", mine would have written "qu'on" rather > > than "q'on". > > > > A Google search produces both forms, so which is the more correct > > French, or are both acceptable? > > Thanks, Paul. > > Actually, that was a typo on my part. I looked it up and Conrad did > write "(On fait ce qu'on peut.)" I had no idea the other form was in > use. Thanks. Seeing the other form made me wonder about this age thing :-) > I guess we are done for now with the real topic of this thread as I > must confess that I hijacked it myself onto this tangent. Sorry. > I'll admit I did lose concentration somewhere in the discussion. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:28:33 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Integrity Workstations? Message-ID: <1186763313.219987.225950@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com> JF Mezei wrote: > Robert Deininger wrote: > > VMS products managers have detected almost NO demand for sound support > > on VMS. If there was demand, the work would likely bubble up toward the > > top of the list. > > It is pointless at this time to even debate. I will just say > "LAME EXCUSE" > > > Just admit that HP has no intentions of pursuing VMS and be done with > it. At this point in time, it is absolutely pointless to even try to > pretend that HP really sees a future in VMS. > > > > Your excuse is even lamer since Patrick Moreau has stated some time ago > that lack of sound support on VMS-IA64 would force him to either stay on > Alpha or move to a different platform, and his applications are pretty > important. But I guess VMS management only looks at new england > customers when making decisions on which features to cut next. Don't you EVER give up JF? The card is a little short of =A350 so go out, buy yourself and Integrity and a sound card and write a device driver for it so that we can all benefit from your work in writing things for VMS...! Personally, I'd like to get the bug in mailbox numbering fixed before someone starts talking abut devices for sound cards. My server rooms are noisy enough that a sound card would be wasted. Come to think of it, if VMS were to be mass-market and dozens in every corporate computer room, they'd be too noisy to hear the sound as well. Sound cards sound a bit pointless on VMS after all then... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:22:14 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Message-ID: Guess what architecture that /Intel 64/ is... http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture-silicon/intel64/ (Conniving bastards take AMD's innovations and call it "Intel 64"! That itself is enough to make me buy AMD64 chips.) -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:13:05 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected? Message-ID: <1186755185.762202.53090@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> > http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture-silicon/intel64/ > > (Conniving bastards take AMD's innovations and call it "Intel 64"! > That itself is enough to make me buy AMD64 chips.) I have bought only AMD chips for PC's for years and I only buy Alphas for OpenVMS. Titanic was a chip the industry never needed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:18:39 -0000 From: Khushi Subject: Jobs from all job sites - at one place, in one Gladoo search (www.Gladoo.com) Message-ID: <1186726719.098523.290640@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Dear Friend, Are you looking to put your career on fast track? Gladoo.com helps you find your next dream job and connect you to the right people in your industry. * Find jobs from Naukri, Monster, Times, etc. in one Gladoo search - save time * Search and connect with professionals in your field who can help enhance your career * Ask and get all your career questions answered * Logon to Gladoo.com to find more free career tools You are only 6 people away from that dream job you are aspiring for. Start your career networking and win surprise prizes. Cheers Gladoo.com - Search & Network Your Way Up! TolMol.com - Compare before you buy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:36:52 -0700 From: tadamsmar Subject: Oldest Alpha for upgrade to Integrity Message-ID: <1186767412.536166.201930@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Does the AlphaStation 400, AlphaServer 800 and the DS10 support VMS 8.3 or some version that Integrity also supports? I was wondering if I can upgrade my older Alphas to a common version with Integrity. Is there a web page that shows what hardware will run what versions of VMS? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:23:21 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: OT: iWork 08 is unnacceptably slow on my iBook. Was: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: Going off topic I know, but there are quite a few OS X users here. so before you all rush out and spend your hard earned money... In article , John Santos wrote: > > Of course, an 800MHz P3 is pretty slow by modern standards, it > might be fine on a 2GHz 64-bit dual-core PC :-) > On my Mac Powerbook 867 G4 with OS X 10.4, the X server worked > fine out of the box. No noticeable slowness. I did install the > optional X-windows components. > A couple of days ago I received the offer of a download of a 30 day demo of iWork 08. The speculation earlier this year that it would include a spreadsheet application was indeed correct. However, on my (admittedly aging) G3 600 MHz iBook (with the maximum of 640 MB RAM) it is *unacceptably* slow. Neither Pages (the word processor) nor Numbers (the spreadsheet) can keep up with my typing speed, (although to their credit, they don't lose typeahead, unlike some stuff I've come across in the past). The amount of memory I have may be the main issue here, but please be warned if you have an oldish Mac. If possible try before you buy. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:31:33 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: iWork 08 is unnacceptably slow on my iBook. Was: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: In article , "P. Sture" writes: > > >Going off topic I know, but there are quite a few OS X users here. so >before you all rush out and spend your hard earned money... > > >In article , John Santos >wrote: > >> >> Of course, an 800MHz P3 is pretty slow by modern standards, it >> might be fine on a 2GHz 64-bit dual-core PC :-) > > > >> On my Mac Powerbook 867 G4 with OS X 10.4, the X server worked >> fine out of the box. No noticeable slowness. I did install the >> optional X-windows components. >> > >A couple of days ago I received the offer of a download of a 30 day demo >of iWork 08. The speculation earlier this year that it would include a >spreadsheet application was indeed correct. I didn't receive such an offer. I'd be happy to check it out to see how it performs on a faster G4. I don't see any download offer on the Apple site though. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:03:55 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: OT: iWork 08 is unnacceptably slow on my iBook. Was: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , "P. Sture" > writes: > > > > > >Going off topic I know, but there are quite a few OS X users here. so > >before you all rush out and spend your hard earned money... > > > > > >In article , John Santos > >wrote: > > > >> > >> Of course, an 800MHz P3 is pretty slow by modern standards, it > >> might be fine on a 2GHz 64-bit dual-core PC :-) > > > > > > > >> On my Mac Powerbook 867 G4 with OS X 10.4, the X server worked > >> fine out of the box. No noticeable slowness. I did install the > >> optional X-windows components. > >> > > > >A couple of days ago I received the offer of a download of a 30 day demo > >of iWork 08. The speculation earlier this year that it would include a > >spreadsheet application was indeed correct. > > I didn't receive such an offer. I'd be happy to check it out to see how > it performs on a faster G4. I did wonder where the offer came from myself, as it hit an email address I don't normally give out to anyone. I can tell you that it was a swine to unravel the URL they gave me - shoved it through MUNPACK, and it's the first time I've seen *that* utility complain. > I don't see any download offer on the Apple site though. I looked there too, but didn't find anything except the invitation to part with a credit card number to get the full thing. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:53:49 +0200 From: Martin Krischik Subject: Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ? Message-ID: <46bc198e$1@news.post.ch> Bob Koehler schrieb: > In article <46bada06@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: >> Bob Koehler schrieb: >> >>> If you don't have the TPU code to do your favourite editor trick, >>> that's not TPU's fault. >> Then do tell me how to implement syntax highlight in an editor language >> without colour support. > DON'T! I hate it when editors change the colors to illegible. The editor does not decide on any colour at all. I decide: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1538 What I find really disturbing, and what shows the sorrow state of VMS, is that you thought differently. No user of any other OS would have thought that way - users of other OS's would have just expected to be able to change the colours they way they like them. At least for an editor advanced enough to support syntax highlight. Martin -- mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:59:10 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ? Message-ID: In article <46bc198e$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: > > >Bob Koehler schrieb: >> In article <46bada06@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: >>> Bob Koehler schrieb: >>> >>>> If you don't have the TPU code to do your favourite editor trick, >>>> that's not TPU's fault. > >>> Then do tell me how to implement syntax highlight in an editor language >>> without colour support. > >> DON'T! I hate it when editors change the colors to illegible. > >The editor does not decide on any colour at all. I decide: > >http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1538 > >What I find really disturbing, and what shows the sorrow state of VMS, >is that you thought differently. No user of any other OS would have You are reading into Bob's statement. He said he doesn't like the editor changing colors to illegible; he didn't say anything that I read as implying that the color scheme could not be varied. I have used editor that change colors of text and I do not like it. It's turned off if I have a choice. This is the same thing I find with web sites. People go and look at a web site and are impressed by the color but where is the con- tent? The most annoying thing lately is the "flash" animations I must witness before I enter a site for information. Is there ANY value in these 'flash' welcomes? In general, I would conclude no! >thought that way - users of other OS's would have just expected to be >able to change the colours they way they like them. At least for an >editor advanced enough to support syntax highlight. You're complaining about an editor in a discussion of an OS. If you want to complain about editors, complain about all of the 'vi' variants in linux to edit various files... like crontab. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 07:54:11 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ? Message-ID: In article <46bc198e$1@news.post.ch>, Martin Krischik writes: > > What I find really disturbing, and what shows the sorrow state of VMS, > is that you thought differently. No user of any other OS would have > thought that way - users of other OS's would have just expected to be > able to change the colours they way they like them. At least for an > editor advanced enough to support syntax highlight. I didn't think differently. I don't want my editor to colorize my code. The first thing I do with Linux is turn off the damn colorization in ls. I know I can configure both of them, but I want them off. If you want TPU to colorize your text, you can write the TPU code to do it. Yes, it can be done on color capable displays. The fact that no one has bothered has to do with the value of using a superior editor and superior programming languages that don't need such crutches. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:07:36 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ? Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W61872894_13013_1186762056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >If you want TPU to colorize your text, you can write the TPU code to >do it. Yes, it can be done on color capable displays. The fact that >no one has bothered has to do with the value of using a superior >editor and superior programming languages that don't need such crutches. Occams Razor: Perhaps the fact nobody has "bothered" to do is because it is viewed as primitive and people just go use another editor, or are driven to use another platform which does support more user friendly tools. Or you may be right. ----=_vm_0011_W61872894_13013_1186762056-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:15:07 -0000 From: Thomas Dickey Subject: Re: VMS cluster behind a *NIX firewall Message-ID: <13boi5rt8fcrf6e@corp.supernews.com> David J Dachtera wrote: > Thomas Dickey wrote: >> >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> > Thomas Dickey wrote: >> >> >> >> David J Dachtera wrote: >> >> > You'll want to look into SMG. See the following... >> >> >> >> >> but all of them are complex >> >> >> >> > Not much worse than "termcap" and "curses", really... >> >> >> >> ...but certainly far more limiting. If the terminal supports features >> >> not explicitly in one of DEC's terminals, SMG doesn't support it. >> >> > D'y'ever look at SYS$SYSTEM:SMGTERMS.TXT? >> >> certainly (I mentioned that a few years ago). >> >> > Need support for a terminal not in there? >> >> ditto - it can't do what I want. >> (google is your friend) > Perhaps, but I've no clue here what to search for. hmm - here's the problem: SMG only covers about 70-80% of the features in termcap (and even less of terminfo). If you (I don't have the time) sit down and do a side-by-side comparison of the two, you'll see that. For data - see ftp://invisible-island.net/ncurses/terminfo.src.gz ftp://invisible-island.net/ncurses/termcap.src.gz -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:56:07 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: What VMS does RIGHT! Message-ID: <009c01c7db13$252e4780$6f8ad680$@com> Naw- I just posted from a web interface to my mail server. I should know better, since the browsers tend to want to wrap things the way they want to, no matter what you might tell them! -Paul > Uh-oh, Paul! Looks like your news agent caught Kerry's long-line virus! > (line > breaks inserted to show how it displayed in Netscape's editing window - > note the > quote marks) ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 07:47:34 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: What VMS does RIGHT! Message-ID: <6X7566Onh2je@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <46BBB491.1060008@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > Contrast it with Unix; if you want what awk does, you'll never guess > what they called it and if you find the awk executable, you'll never > guess what it does! Wrong, I'll guess right now! "awk" does misspelled flying around the arctic. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:17:04 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: What VMS does RIGHT! Message-ID: John Santos wrote: > > I was trying a four-line junk text file (actually a one-line > Fortran program consisting of "end" with several lines of > random text added in front of it) and it was consistently displaying > 3 errors, no matter what I set /error_limit to. However, passing > PASCAL a real BASIC program of 129 lines, /error_limit=n seems to > stop after n errors, so I guess it is just some minimal edge condition > that doesn't count right. > > $ type foo.for > more junk. > and even more junk; > Some garbage > end > $ pascal/error_limit=1 foo.for > > more junk. > ........^ > %PASCAL-E-SYNPROMOD, Syntax: PROGRAM or MODULE expected > at line number 1 in file $6$DKA100:[JOHN]FOO.FOR;3 > > Some garbage > ........^ > %PASCAL-E-SYNBEGDECL, Syntax: BEGIN or declaration expected > at line number 3 in file $6$DKA100:[JOHN]FOO.FOR;3 > > end > ...........^ > %PASCAL-E-SYNPERIOD, Syntax: "." expected > at line number 4 in file $6$DKA100:[JOHN]FOO.FOR;3 > %PASCAL-E-ENDDIAGS, PASCAL completed with 3 diagnostics > $ Sigh... If you say /ERROR=2, Pascal stops after two. Something funny with 1 at the edge condition. Should be easy to fix. As for getting it into BASIC, COBOL, and Macro-32, I'll add it to the list. If I could just get all of you to use the LSE language templates, you wouldn't be having all these syntax errors, no? :-) And before anybody starts THAT thread, we did update several of the language LSE templates for the latest DECset release. -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:27:44 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: What VMS does RIGHT! Message-ID: On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 22:20:37 -0700, P. Sture = wrote: > Similar help text is there for C, CXX, FORTRAN (all with a default of > 30). PLI /ERROR_LIMIT [=3Dn] /ERROR_LIMIT=3D100 (D) /NOERROR_LIMIT Allows you to to specify the number of errors (n) acceptable durin= g program compilation. The /NOERROR_LIMIT qualifier changes th= e default error limit of 100 to 1000. All error messages are counte= d toward the error limit. A fatal message, however, immediatel= y terminates the compilation. -- = PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:23:42 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: What VMS does RIGHT! Message-ID: <1186766622.730636.151050@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 9, 7:03 pm, "Richard Maher" wrote: > Hi John, > > > You're welcome. > > Wasn't it Al Gore who invented VAX COBOL :-) That sound you heard was the Admiral rolling in her grave. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 06:28:24 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article <009001c7db10$23d108d0$6b731a70$@com>, "Paul Raulerson" writes: >> The only obscurity VMS depnds on is your password. > > Riiiight... that's why the bookstore shelves are loaded with books on VMS, > there are 7 or 8 magazines out there dedicated to OpenVMS I have seen very little need for additional books about VMS beyond what is in the documentation set. One needs the older (archived) documents for writing to DECwindows XUI and DECnet Phase IV, but those are specialized needs that would not be met by any third party documentation either. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 07:32:41 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article <009001c7db10$23d108d0$6b731a70$@com>, "Paul Raulerson" writes: > > Riiiight... that's why the bookstore shelves are loaded with books on VMS, > there are 7 or 8 magazines out there dedicated to OpenVMS and there are > several million installations of it... The observation of some obscurity does not in any way prove that security depends on it. Back when VMS was the thing to use it didn't have significant security issues. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:14:59 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W6223527972_17914_1186762499 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Unless something changed recently the "distributed" definition for >CICS was multiple tasks running on the same hunk of big blue iron. It >didn't handle transactions with machines clustered between Germnay, >IL, Brazil, and France. If you define recently as 1977, yeah... otherwise no, CICS has handled distributed transactions and distributed processing for 30 years or so. >You mean the broker that is currently up for sale? That would be the London Stock Exchange- the Schwab "Dutch Auction" was pretty cool. -Paul ----=_vm_0011_W6223527972_17914_1186762499-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:19:47 +0000 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: ----=_vm_0011_W6262612038_18378_1186762787 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, I do not mean replicated, as you would have to do under VMS. The data= for each location resides in whatever geographic location it has been as= signed to, and is not replicated to each other location. (It is replicat= ed via storage systems for DR and such, but that has *nothing* to do with= what we are talking about.) Are you just trying to be annoying, or do you really have no idea at all = of modern database and transactional technology outside of VMS? -Paul > > A federated database is a "cluster" of two or more geographically remot= e databases where the data has been segregated geographically or otherwis= e to facilitate access. > > For example, you might have a VENDOR_MASTER_TABLE that is federated ove= r 50 machines, all of which have seamless access to the entire data set, = but users in Germany retrieve German users from a local server, etc. > He means "replicated". The poor mans drunken excuse for fault tollerance. In order to hide the fact the database has no fault tolerance, they now "partially replicate" the data multiple times. This new poor mans excuse is called "federated" because even MBA's finally figured out data replication is only as good as the last snap, no matter how often and how small you make those snaps. ----=_vm_0011_W6262612038_18378_1186762787-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:35:24 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article , John Santos wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article <1uMui.6798$vK2.5366@trnddc03>, John Santos > > writes: > > > >> > >>Global note: please use a news client that wraps properly. Mozilla can > >>display your posts okay, but the extremely long lines make replying a > >>pain in the neck. I had to manually insert line breaks just so I could > >>read your stuff. I hate to think what they look like on a text-based > >>news client. > > > > > > VERY UGLY! > > > > Not as bad as reading a quoted-printable message from M$ Outhouse but > > still ugly. > > > > I did notice in one of my followups in the same thread, I pasted a > VMS error message that looked fine in the Mozilla composition window, > but when I read it back, it was one long line. "How do you do, Mr > Kettle? Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Mr. Pot." Back when I was using Mozilla, I noticed a tendency to mimic the formatting of the message you were replying to. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:54:45 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <009701c7db12$f47bb230$dd731690$@com> > > Said it before, go sell some systems; support will "magically" > materialize. > > Be my guest! VMS is no longer in my future, we're going to AIX. > Well, I am fully IBM certified in AIX of course, and enjoy using it, though I admit to moving most stuff to Linux these days. If you need any help, just ask. -Paul ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 06:39:21 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <9dpYOV96fyVX@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <009601c7db12$8338cae0$89aa60a0$@com>, "Paul Raulerson" writes: >> From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.no@spam.comcast.net] >> We're not talking about overflow type attacks, etc. since those simply >> result in >> an accvio on VMS and then a deleted process - no exposure. >> >> We're talking about internal security and break-in detection/evasion. >> > > Yep- we are. I am also talking about software defect that allow buffer > overflows, > and other methods. And about logical security, such as protecting access to > priv'ed accounts. As in any other computer system, that logical security can be achieved by logical people following logical rules. Rules abound, and if you follow the recommendations in the Guide to OpenVMS Security you will do well. For overall guidance (including people issues) I recommend NIST 800-53. The _only_ flaw I have seen when applying it to a VMS system is that it suggests minimum password lifetimes. Obviously the authors have been overly influenced by inferior operating systems. >> However, the same vulnerabilities exist, regardless of scale. VMS >> retains its >> security at all scales. If, however, an application or a SIP introduces >> a >> security issue, that is not VMS's fault. >> > > We disagree. An OS is responsible for security, and for managing any > applications > it allows to run. By default, VMS does that, but when someone with David's background talks about "applications" he means something installed by the system manager and granted certain privileges to become part of the Trusted Computing Base. David is _not_ talking about a piece of software imported by some unprivileged user to run under their own username. > Also, scale makes a huge difference; a vulnerability that > may > engender little or no risk on a 50 user machine, can be magnified easily > into a > critical problem on a machine with 60,000 active users. Unprivileged users on VMS cannot introduce "critical problems" by bringing in software. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 07:22:26 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article , Keith Parris writes: > > It's a common misconception of people who worked with VMS long ago, but > aren't in touch with what's been going on in the VMS world lately, to > assume that VMS is in maintenance mode. Which, sadly, DEC, Compaq, and HP have done nothing about. If I mention VMS to someone the reaction I get is "Oh, that only runs on those old systems". I suspect they've seen ODS-2 go to 49.49 and maybe add a couple characters to the set allowed in file names, but they've no idea ODS-5, Java support, ..., exist. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 07:31:07 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: > > And I want that Python could be installed on ODS-2 volumes, or ODS-5 > have a (gag, I can't believe I'm saying this) Microsoft-like "it > looks case-sensitive, but really isn't" option, so that 30 years of > DCL that relies on case-insensitivity will work along side newer code. ODS-5 has always been case preserving case insensitive. The option to have UNIX-like case sensitivity is a newer feature that is turned off by default. If you wrote code in any language, DCL or otherwise, that assumed file names were early ODS-2 9.3 uppercase and it can't deal with ODS-5 capabilities that have been around for years now, that's not VMS' fault. DCL had provided the tools needs to manipulate filenames without assumptions since at least 3.0. I dealt with the same thing in code that enforced the notion that VMS file names on ODS-2 must be uppercase and limited to the original ODS-2 character set. I just took out all the silly checking on the user input and dealt with possible failure of the OPEN statement if they ever did type something that didn't work. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:24:57 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186752297.631367.59370@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com> > > Keep telling yourself that. It gives the industry a real good laugh > everytime they hear it. Meanwhile, your legacy OS is slowly dying > while Unix (who's death was announced more than a decade ago right > right there on the cover of Byte Magazine) continues to grow market > share. And is the OS behind the vast majority of cover story security breaches. > > Probably depends on your definition of cluster. But let's assume > the VMS definition. This has been asked before but never answered. > Forgetting Hobbyist systems where they cluster for the sake of > clustering, what percentage of real, production VMS systems are > clusters as opposed to stand alone systems? Why would Unix bother > implementing something that has little if any need? When a Beowulf > style cluster became needed, it was written (and actually, that's not > the only kind available on Unix.) And then we also had Amoeba Clusters, > which, if nothing else, showed how little interest there really was > in clustering beyond looking at it from an academic standpoint. I've spent 20 years in this field on OpenVMS and other platforms. I've never been to an OpenVMS shop for any company grossing >$2mil in sales which wasn't fully using a cluster. Most went all the way using ACMS to distribute transactions across the entire cluster. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:34:24 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/09/07 23:12, John E. Malmberg wrote: > >>ODS-5 is by default case insensitive, but case preserving. >> >>DCL needs to have parse style set to extended for it to take create >>files in exact case. >> >>And you can set the process to be case sensitive in handling ODS-5 file >>names. > > Excellent. Seems that our SysAdmin might have been a bit over- > cautious. > > Does that mean that on an ODS-5 volume F$SEARCH("FOOBAR.TXT") and > F$SEARCH("foobar.txt") both find the same files? > 0 lines written to file RSYNC_ROOT:[PERL]FooBar.TxT;1 EAGLE> write sys$output f$search("foobar.txt") RSYNC_ROOT:[PERL]FooBar.TxT;1 EAGLE> write sys$output f$search("FOOBAR.TXT") RSYNC_ROOT:[PERL]FooBar.TxT;1 -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:35:12 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186752912.849745.201740@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com> > UH- CICS, now known as "Transaction Server" has been around near on 40 years now and supportd distributed confgurations as well as isloated configurations. A very large percentage of anything like real time financial transacitons in the world goes through CICS. The HP ADCM product is somewhat similar. Unless something changed recently the "distributed" definition for CICS was multiple tasks running on the same hunk of big blue iron. It didn't handle transactions with machines clustered between Germnay, IL, Brazil, and France. > > Even though there are some very large VMS sites out there (I'm impressed) I'm not sure that VMS is the target of choice for VL environments. I am willing to be convinced otherwise. :) A full cluster with the SOA services written as tasks in ACMS is the ultimate SOA platform. The load is automagically balanced without any 3rd party software. Execution is guarranteed even if the node your transaction originally started on had the power cable cut. > > Well- CICS runs fine under Unix, AIX in particular. I think it is Charles Swchab (?) that is running all the operations on a fleet of AIX machines running CICS. (Well, Transaction Server, but IBM renames things just to shake up the market... :) You mean the broker that is currently up for sale? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:36:21 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186752981.144505.30860@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> > I have never seen "ACLs" - meaning access control lists tied to a filesystem > able to do what RACF does. I do not think we are talking about the same thing here. > ACLs aren't tied to a file system, they apply to any object in the OS, at least on a real OS. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:42:41 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186753361.784962.247760@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> > > ACMS (the VMS equivalent of CICS) can probably successfully tie > disparate Rdb databases together. Under DECdtm I have used ACMS to successfully execute a distributed transaction across 3 RDB databases, 4 MQ queues, 2 RMS Indexed files (with journalling) across 4 continents. But I had no idea what node in the global cluster things were executing on. Didn't care. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:45:03 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186753503.685906.257590@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 10, 7:39 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: [...] > > As in any other computer system, that logical security can be achieved > by logical people following logical rules. Rules abound, and if you > follow the recommendations in the Guide to OpenVMS Security you will > do well. For overall guidance (including people issues) I recommend > NIST 800-53. The _only_ flaw I have seen when applying it to a VMS > system is that it suggests minimum password lifetimes. Obviously the > authors have been overly influenced by inferior operating systems. Hi Larry! My apologies in advance if this is a stupid question. What is the motivations for having a minimum password lifetime? Please feel free to give a detailed answer. Thanks! [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:47:15 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186753635.877069.82640@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com> > > A federated database is a "cluster" of two or more geographically remote databases where the data has been segregated geographically or otherwise to facilitate access. > > For example, you might have a VENDOR_MASTER_TABLE that is federated over 50 machines, all of which have seamless access to the entire data set, but users in Germany retrieve German users from a local server, etc. > He means "replicated". The poor mans drunken excuse for fault tollerance. In order to hide the fact the database has no fault tolerance, they now "partially replicate" the data multiple times. This new poor mans excuse is called "federated" because even MBA's finally figured out data replication is only as good as the last snap, no matter how often and how small you make those snaps. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:00:15 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186754415.668103.121610@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com> > > My apologies in advance if this is a stupid question. > > What is the motivations for having a minimum password lifetime? Please > feel free to give a detailed answer. > Minimum password lifetimes are to stop flip-flops. Some priv'ed users used to exctract encoded pw, change the pw on a user account, send embarasing email with the account, then reset the password with the encrypted value. The other flip-flop is users with a favorite password. Dictionary depth will stop them from using it for 3-5 password changes. So, when a user had an industry favorite password: Eunics_the_os_that_cannot_breed They would simply change their password 5 times back to back in order to get that password back. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:56:22 +0200 From: Sebastian Hanigk Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: yyyc186 writes: >> A federated database is a "cluster" of two or more geographically >> remote databases where the data has been segregated geographically >> or otherwise to facilitate access. >> For example, you might have a VENDOR_MASTER_TABLE that is federated >> over 50 machines, all of which have seamless access to the entire >> data set, but users in Germany retrieve German users from a local >> server, etc. >> > > He means "replicated". The poor mans drunken excuse for fault > tollerance. In order to hide the fact the database has no fault > tolerance, they now "partially replicate" the data multiple times. > This new poor mans excuse is called "federated" because even MBA's > finally figured out data replication is only as good as the last snap, > no matter how often and how small you make those snaps. I think you have misunderstood the original statement: in a federated database, you have a (disjunct) distribution of data over a DBMS cluster (the analogon would be clustered indices inside the DBMS). Sebastian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:37:32 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186760252.405272.290750@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 10, 8:24 am, yyyc186 wrote: >[attribution not quoted by yyyc186] > > Probably depends on your definition of cluster. But let's assume > > the VMS definition. This has been asked before but never answered. > > Forgetting Hobbyist systems where they cluster for the sake of > > clustering, what percentage of real, production VMS systems are > > clusters as opposed to stand alone systems? Why would Unix bother > > implementing something that has little if any need? When a Beowulf > > style cluster became needed, it was written (and actually, that's not > > the only kind available on Unix.) And then we also had Amoeba Clusters, > > which, if nothing else, showed how little interest there really was > > in clustering beyond looking at it from an academic standpoint. > > I've spent 20 years in this field on OpenVMS and other platforms. > I've never been to an OpenVMS shop for any company grossing >$2mil in > sales which wasn't fully using a cluster. Most went all the way using > ACMS to distribute transactions across the entire cluster. I think >$2mil gross is at *least* a factor of 10 too low, unless you mean net rather than gross. It does depend on the industry and application, though. A $2mil company with a high profit margin that depends on 24/7 operation could justify it. That company would also be expecting fast growth and would not plan to remain a $2mil company for long. This isn't the typical $2 to $10mil company, however. VMS clustering is expensive. Apparently even HP can't justify OpenVMS clustering their own 24/7 services; like the ITRC forum, for example. (just couldn't resist that little dig) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:51:52 -0700 From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186761112.317392.287060@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com> > I think >$2mil gross is at *least* a factor of 10 too low, unless you > mean net rather than gross. It does depend on the industry and > application, though. A $2mil company with a high profit margin that > depends on 24/7 operation could justify it. That company would also be > expecting fast growth and would not plan to remain a $2mil company for > long. This isn't the typical $2 to $10mil company, however. VMS > clustering is expensive. The smallest was a company that did $2mil in a lean year and much more in a good year. They made garage doors. Why a cluster? When the work orders stopped printing on the factory floor, they stopped making money. They were no where near leading edge. Using MicroVax 3200 when everybody else had moved to Alpha. They didn't need horsepower, having upgrade from VAX 11/750 to the 3200 platform. They just needed uptime. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 11:49:39 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article <5tZui.68701$g86.64848@newsfe14.lga>, Ron Johnson writes: > > Does that mean that on an ODS-5 volume F$SEARCH("FOOBAR.TXT") and > F$SEARCH("foobar.txt") both find the same files? Yes, unless you have the version that implements the case-sensitivity option AND you turn it on. FOOBAR.TXT, foobar.txt, FOObar.TXT, fooBAR.txt, FoObAr.TxT, fOoBaR.tXt, ..., are all references to the same file. OBTW, your system mangler may have been confused by an earlier requirement that the system disk be ODS-2. Current versions support ODS-5 system disks. Mostly I think VMS Engineering wanted to peruse there own code for improper assumptions before blessing it. Or maybe he dealt with a castrated file system in an earlier job. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:56:52 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1186765012.105022.168750@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 10, 10:51 am, yyyc186 wrote: > > I think >$2mil gross is at *least* a factor of 10 too low, unless you > > mean net rather than gross. It does depend on the industry and > > application, though. A $2mil company with a high profit margin that > > depends on 24/7 operation could justify it. That company would also be > > expecting fast growth and would not plan to remain a $2mil company for > > long. This isn't the typical $2 to $10mil company, however. VMS > > clustering is expensive. > > The smallest was a company that did $2mil in a lean year and much more > in a good year. They made garage doors. Why a cluster? When the > work orders stopped printing on the factory floor, they stopped making > money. They were no where near leading edge. Using MicroVax 3200 > when everybody else had moved to Alpha. They didn't need horsepower, > having upgrade from VAX 11/750 to the 3200 platform. They just needed > uptime. Ok, that's one. But you said: > > > I've never been to an OpenVMS shop for any company grossing >$2mil in > > > sales which wasn't fully using a cluster. Most went all the way using > > > ACMS to distribute transactions across the entire cluster. Unless your experience is limited to just that company, I take issue with "any" and "most." I've worked with many >$2 <$20mil companies, and I've only seen a few that used a VMS cluster. I have seen more than a few >$20mil companies clustered. I've seen smaller divisions of large companies running cluster, and maybe those were $2 sales centers; I don't know, but I don't think so. Most of the clustered companies that I know of (and VMS ones, for that matter) have a history of using DEC equipment going back to PDP or DEC 10/20. 20 years ago, clustering was uncommon. 40 years ago when I started in this business, it was non-existent. Today it's certainly more common, but by no means is it pervasive. Tomorrow, who knows? I suspect it may be as common as RAID and MP has become today. It won't be OpenVMS that moves it there, though, unless many things change drastically. I feel I can say that because I'm one of the staunchest VMS bigots you'll ever meet, but I'm also a realist who is paying attention to what's happening in the industry. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 11:57:01 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: In article <1186753503.685906.257590@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > What is the motivations for having a minimum password lifetime? Please > feel free to give a detailed answer. On systems which do not implement a password history it keeps the user from changing an expired password and immediately putting it back to what it was before. The security geek hopes that this will force the user to learn the new password and leave it changed. And then there are systems like Windows that implement a password history incorrectly. Sigh. Which leaves me wondering whether anyone out there is sure that thier UNIX or Linux implements a password history correctly. The last one I looked into was digital UNIX and it didn't have a password history. I'm fairly sure Solaris and Linux have password histories but I don't know if they're correctly done. I expect someone here knows for sure. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:58:56 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion champion c Message-ID: <009d01c7db13$8a1daa50$9e58fef0$@com> Eh- not exactly. AIX has more in common with merged version that went to mainframes, though roots do trace down to AT&T V7. And nope- no source code around. Apparently though, the source code for VMS is available. Someone was talking about it a few messages ago. Seems weird to me that it would be out in public. -Paul > -----Original Message----- > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.no@spam.comcast.net] > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:28 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal > champion champion champion > > Paul Raulerson wrote: > > > > OS's that have no publically available source *are* more secure. Seen > the source code to AIX hanging about lately? > > Seen the source code to AT&T System-V laying about? AIX is that, some > generations much IBM development later. > ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 07:34:59 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion champion c Message-ID: In article <009d01c7db13$8a1daa50$9e58fef0$@com>, "Paul Raulerson" writes: > > Apparently though, the source code for VMS is available. > Someone was talking about it a few messages ago. Seems > weird to me that it would be out in public. The source listings shipped with the binaries through VMS 4.x. at no extra charge. Then they became available at low cost. Slightly later they moved from microfiche to CD. The compilable source has always been available at high cost. FreeVMS is out there, in source. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:08:59 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion champion c Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <009d01c7db13$8a1daa50$9e58fef0$@com>, "Paul Raulerson" > writes: > > > > Apparently though, the source code for VMS is available. > > Someone was talking about it a few messages ago. Seems > > weird to me that it would be out in public. > > The source listings shipped with the binaries through VMS 4.x. at > no extra charge. Then they became available at low cost. Slightly > later they moved from microfiche to CD. I now realise that I was lied to many years ago. > The compilable source has always been available at high cost. Understood, and acceptable. > FreeVMS is out there, in source. But unfortunately for me, in C. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 07:36:25 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: In article , "Brian Tillman" writes: > wrote in message > news:zdJui.54$AR7.9@newsfe12.lga... > >> Buy a Mac? > > How is that free? It saves you lots of money on MS TCO. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 07:39:00 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: In article , "Brian Tillman" writes: > "Bob Koehler" wrote in message > news:rm2FYQdGSZCR@eisner.encompasserve.org... > >> 1) load cygwin (I think you already did), after all UNIX is better >> than Windows >> 2) start a cygwin shell (typically bash) >> 3) execute /usr/bin/X11/startx >> 4) ssh to VMS with X tunneling on (PuTTY does fine) > > Don't have SSH on the VMS system. Ouch. You should know that X11 is very insecure over TCP/IP without it. >> 5) mcr vue$master (or your other favorite starting point) > > SET DISPLAY/CREATE followed by CREATE/TERMINAL produced "no such display". What was the full command you used for set display? It needs to be "set display/create/node=/transport=tcpip". And the system startup scripts need to enable TCPIP as an X11 transport. I think they still ship with that turned off by default since TCPIP isn't installed by default. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 07:41:01 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: <7AAwfv9WG+kh@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > Perhaps, you haven't enabled access to the X server from the machine. > What is the equivelant of xhost on Weendoze? If he's running cygwin he's emulating UNIX so he has xhost. I think the default setting on the cygwin xserver is the equivalent of "xhost +", I've never had to enable any node. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:48:42 GMT From: "Brian Tillman" Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: wrote in message news:OwMui.36$Jn6.11@newsfe12.lga... > If the X server is running, you should be able to issue: > > $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=ip-of-pc/TRANSPORT=TCPIP And that's what I did use. > Perhaps, you haven't enabled access to the X server from the machine. > What is the equivelant of xhost on Weendoze? eXceed doesn't require that. I'm not Unixy enough to know what xhost is. -- Brian Tillman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:51:06 GMT From: "Brian Tillman" Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: <_aZui.27225$RX.17930@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net> "Bob Koehler" wrote in message news:qRGCd3geFF6v@eisner.encompasserve.org... >> Don't have SSH on the VMS system. > > Ouch. You should know that X11 is very insecure over TCP/IP without > it. That doesn't concern me. > What was the full command you used for set display? It needs to be > "set display/create/node=/transport=tcpip". Of course. As you could have read in my earlier post, I also have experience using eXceed. > And the system startup scripts need to enable TCPIP as an X11 > transport. I think they still ship with that turned off by default > since TCPIP isn't installed by default. DECwindows 101. -- Brian Tillman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:14:21 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: In article , "Brian Tillman" writes: > > > wrote in message >news:OwMui.36$Jn6.11@newsfe12.lga... > >> If the X server is running, you should be able to issue: >> >> $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=ip-of-pc/TRANSPORT=TCPIP > >And that's what I did use. > >> Perhaps, you haven't enabled access to the X server from the machine. >> What is the equivelant of xhost on Weendoze? > >eXceed doesn't require that. I'm not Unixy enough to know what xhost is. xhost is a unixy command to permit an X client to access the X server. xhost + will open access to any X client. You may or may not want this as any user on a network could then export display to your X server and run X clients which will start popping up on your display. The easiest way, and most secure, is to use ssh to establish your con- nection with the X client host and use the equivalent of the -X switch to tunnel X over the ssh connection to your server. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:37:12 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:11:22 -0700, Rob Brown wrote: > On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Lord Derigan wrote: > >> Are there any free PC-based X servers > > Not free, but cheap: > > http://www.microimages.com/mix/ > > This is two-year old news, and I haven't checked it lately, nor do I use > the program myself because it could not pierce our company firewall > without additional software. > > As I recall, it is a free trial and then $25 to continue using it. > > eXcursion is adequate for me. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:08:50 GMT From: "Brian Tillman" Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: "John E. Malmberg" wrote in message news:3JNui.55873$Fc.11363@attbi_s21... > Microsoft Services For Unix, a free download now includes an X-11 server. > I have not located the documentation on how to start it up. No mention of an included X server on the Windows Services for Unix web pages (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/interopmigration/bb380242.aspx) that I can see. In fact, the web pages explicitly mention using ReflectionX, eXceed, XVision, or XFree86 on the PC side. What WSfU allows, apparently is the writing of X client applications for display on other systems with X servers. -- Brian Tillman ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 12:02:08 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: In article <_aZui.27225$RX.17930@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>, "Brian Tillman" writes: > > DECwindows 101. Odd, then, that you get the error you posted. I haven't seen that on properly configured systems. Is it possible that something is blocking X11 on port 600? Do you get the second bash window that normally is auto-started by the cygwin startx script? ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 2007 17:41:22 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: X Window Servers Message-ID: <5i3ma2F3mbnolU1@mid.individual.net> In article <1186684006.675098.274930@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Lord Derigan writes: > Are there any free PC-based X servers that can can be used to create > windows on VMS and display them on a PC? The company I work for has > been using Himmingbird eXceed for a long time but will not purchase > additional licenses. I have someone who needs windowed access to our > VMS systems. I tried Cygwin, but I couldn't get it working. Any > other suggestions? We use Cygwin here in the labs and I use it on my desktop PC all the time. Should work fine with VMS assuming you have XDM running. Can be used without it, but its harder. Feel free to contact me by email if I can answer any specific questions for you. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.436 ************************