INFO-VAX Thu, 30 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 476 Contents: Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: COBOL Transactions? Re: Could disk shadowing stress SCSI? RE: Could disk shadowing stress SCSI? Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system GLOBAL AD POSTING Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question Re: Itanium Port Question kernel question Re: kernel question Re: kernel question Re: kernel question Re: kernel question Re: Lock problem with SAMBA/NMBD Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: Odd disk problem Re: Odd disk problem References: header (was Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system) RE: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect RE: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month VMS License Plates Re: VMS License Plates Re: VMS License Plates Re: VMS License Plates Re: Wisconsin professor says global warming a hoax! World Wide Rdb Forums Xyplex RJ45-DB9 wiring Your chance to be involved in our 30th anniversary ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:29:17 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Alan Winston, when are you correcting your WASD book? Message-ID: In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >In article <13d3pv3rp0rnd3c@corp.supernews.com>, Mark Daniel writes: > >> The C-RTL complicates that by ensuring the command-line arguments passed >> to main() have been lower-cased hence quoting preserves upper-case. > >Yuck ! Not necessarily true any longer. With extended parsing set you can tell the C-RTL to preserve the case of arguments. From HELP on VMS 8.3 " HELP SET PROC/PARSE . . . The main differences for DCL when EXTENDED parse rules are in effect are: o Arguments to foreign commands are case preserved. You can get the command string by calling LIB$GET_FOREIGN. C/C++ programs that use the argc/argv mechanism will have unquoted arguments in lowercase unless the C Run-Time Library logical DECC$ARGV_PARSE_STYLE is set to ENABLE. When DECC$ARGV_PARSE_STYLE is enabled, case is preserved in command line arguments when the process is set up for extended DCL parsing using /PARSE_STYLE=EXTENDED. " David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:00:04 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: In article <5jgi9hF3td690U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >In article , > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >> In article <5j8kvsF3sj2ffU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>> And don't say "you don't pay for it because it is >>>bundled in" because you pay for everything that comes with the system >>>wether it is listed on the invoice or not. >>> >> By that argument Unix should not come bundled with a TCPIP stack or Sendmail >> etc etc > >I assume your refering to my comment "because you pay for everything that >comes with the system". But that was in relation to VMS and not Unix. >TCPIP has been a part of the kernel and not "bundled" at all in every >unix other than very old SYSV systems (at least since networking became >common). And Sendmail is not really a part of Unix and has been free >since it was written. I usually do not even install it. Of course, >depending on how you look at it, TCPIP and Sendmail cost at least as >much as the OS for me. :-) > But you "pay for everything that comes with the system". VMS shows that you do not necessarily have to bundle the TCPIP stack in the OS (or build it into the kernel). Hence since it is not strictly necessary to include it and some few users may not want to use it - by your logic Unix should not include a TCPIP stack with the OS. Your comment "But that was in relation to VMS and not Unix" seems to imply that Unix has some special privilege in this regard so that you can criticise VMS for including facilities but that similar criticisms of Unix regarding it's facilities are out of bounds. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >bill > >-- >Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >University of Scranton | >Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 10:43:11 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: COBOL Transactions? Message-ID: In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > In article <5jgi9hF3td690U1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>In article , >> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >>> In article <5j8kvsF3sj2ffU2@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>> >>>> And don't say "you don't pay for it because it is >>>>bundled in" because you pay for everything that comes with the system >>>>wether it is listed on the invoice or not. >>>> >>> By that argument Unix should not come bundled with a TCPIP stack or Sendmail >>> etc etc >> >>I assume your refering to my comment "because you pay for everything that >>comes with the system". But that was in relation to VMS and not Unix. >>TCPIP has been a part of the kernel and not "bundled" at all in every >>unix other than very old SYSV systems (at least since networking became >>common). And Sendmail is not really a part of Unix and has been free >>since it was written. I usually do not even install it. Of course, >>depending on how you look at it, TCPIP and Sendmail cost at least as >>much as the OS for me. :-) >> > But you "pay for everything that comes with the system". VMS shows that you do > not necessarily have to bundle the TCPIP stack in the OS (or build it into the > kernel). Hence since it is not strictly necessary to include it and some few > users may not want to use it - by your logic Unix should not include a TCPIP > stack with the OS. > Your comment "But that was in relation to VMS and not Unix" seems to imply that > Unix has some special privilege in this regard so that you can criticise VMS > for including facilities but that similar criticisms of Unix regarding it's > facilities are out of bounds. Included as part of the Operating System Record Management TCP/IP Security VMS X - X MVS X ? - Unix - X X In the case of VMS TCP/IP and MVS Security there are multiple competing implementations, adhering to a common programming interface. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 05:17:18 -0700 From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Could disk shadowing stress SCSI? Message-ID: <1188476238.810754.143980@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Aug 29, 9:23 pm, bradhamil...@comcast.net (Brad Hamilton) wrote: > In article <1188414878.371078.292...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, > > tadamsmar wrote: > >I noticed I was getting soft errors when adding a member to a shadow > >set. > > The same happens to me - the disk involved is a different physical > configuration (1" vs. "full-height") than its partner. No other errors occur > after the copy or merge is complete. In my many years' experience working with > shadowed disks, this is not a cause for concern. > > >The errors are for the disks, but they show a SCSI STATUS of CHECK > >CONDITION in DIAGNOSE. > > >Could it be that the SCSI is stressed during the period of heavy > >activity when a shadow set is being reconstituted? > > >One of the disks had just ran clean for ANAL/MEDIA/EXER > >so I don't see how the errors could be from the disk. > > My experience tells me that disks are in trouble when they throw "many" errors > in a "short" time (for some values of "many" and "short"). Of course, since > you are using shadowing, it will cost no more than the price of another drive > to determine if there is indeed a problem with your "problem" disk. :-) I had another system go nuts and start repeatedly rebuilding DSA0 and bogging the system due to soft errors on a disk during a merge. The problem quit if I stopped the merge by dismounting the disk being merged in. Granted, only happened once and I have 50 system years of experience. But I am a bit concerned because I did have this problem. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:40:54 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Could disk shadowing stress SCSI? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tadamsmar [mailto:tadamsmar@yahoo.com] > Sent: August 30, 2007 8:17 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Could disk shadowing stress SCSI? > > On Aug 29, 9:23 pm, bradhamil...@comcast.net (Brad Hamilton) wrote: > > In article <1188414878.371078.292...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, > > > > tadamsmar wrote: > > >I noticed I was getting soft errors when adding a member to a shadow > > >set. > > > > The same happens to me - the disk involved is a different physical > > configuration (1" vs. "full-height") than its partner. No other > errors occur > > after the copy or merge is complete. In my many years' experience > working with > > shadowed disks, this is not a cause for concern. > > > > >The errors are for the disks, but they show a SCSI STATUS of CHECK > > >CONDITION in DIAGNOSE. > > > > >Could it be that the SCSI is stressed during the period of heavy > > >activity when a shadow set is being reconstituted? > > > > >One of the disks had just ran clean for ANAL/MEDIA/EXER > > >so I don't see how the errors could be from the disk. > > > > My experience tells me that disks are in trouble when they throw > "many" errors > > in a "short" time (for some values of "many" and "short"). Of > course, since > > you are using shadowing, it will cost no more than the price of > another drive > > to determine if there is indeed a problem with your "problem" disk. > :-) > > I had another system go nuts and start repeatedly rebuilding DSA0 and > bogging the system due to soft errors on a disk during a merge. The > problem quit if I stopped the merge by dismounting the disk being > merged in. Granted, only happened once and I have 50 system years of > experience. But I am a bit concerned because I did have this problem. The issue is likely related to something like SCSI cable length or improper= termination (flaky connections?) that results in errors on the drive furthest down the = bus. As A previous reply stated, simply replacing the drive will tell you if you ha= ve a drive or SCSI bus / cable issue. I also seem to remember that some self test issues on older servers e.g. pw= r up, left devices in a sort Of undetermined state that caused some issues in some con= figs (YMMV). Fwiw, I always like to Issue an additional >>> INIT before booting older sy= stems. I would also ensure that you have the latest patch kits applied for the ver= sion of OpenVMS you are using. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 08:07:15 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: In article <1188407164.551718.115840@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, richards.alex@gmail.com writes: > All I want is a dump of these records into a file -- ideally as ASCII > text, fixed-width or character-delimited. Who pays for this? Moving their data from whatever storage they've got it in to a file of ASCII records, or even just a file without record lookup keys or other overhead may not be a capability their system has. It may cost quite a bit to add the capability to honor your request. There may be no-one with the technical expertise to honor your request, so there would be cost to bring in a consultant to work it out. It is possible that there VAX has no removable media and no network access. I don't think I'd configure a system like that for important data as I depend on removable media for backup and archive purposes, but they may be happy with online backups. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 08:10:07 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads > by > indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? An Opera bug? anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's reply as the next in thread. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 08:12:39 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: In article <1188416821.708661.44830@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: > > Then it's possible the system doesn't maintain historical data on-line > (older than some date), but they have archived it to some backup media > (maybe it's just printed) and purged it from the current data-base. From what we know, the hardcopies in the filing cabinets may serve both as the historical and backup records. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:43:25 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:10:07 -0700, Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" > writes: >> >> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying >> threads >> by >> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? > > An Opera bug? anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's reply > as the next in thread. > Don't think so. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:36:47 -0700 From: dinesh Subject: GLOBAL AD POSTING Message-ID: <1188491807.007319.35340@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com> $5 to $50, per Ad Posting. No pay per Click, No Pay per response. Just Post a Ad & Get paid instantly. Post as many Ads you can. Create your own monthly income target. For more details visit http://www.wisincome.com or E-mail us at worldinfosystem@gmail.com. Call us at +91-9974260064 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:12:32 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: In article <1188172498.272179.37250@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: >On Aug 26, 8:12 am, Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 08/26/07 06:11, Neil Rieck wrote: >> >> > On Aug 25, 1:03 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: >> >> On 08/25/07 07:14, Neil Rieck wrote: >> >> > [...snip...] >> >>> Talk to anyone who was an adult during World War 2 and you'll find >> >>> that many common folk were anti-Semitic even though they called >> >>> themselves Christians. (The people telling you these facts will always >> >> "The Jews killed Jesus." >> >> > Christians are taught that God sent his only son to die for humanity's >> > sins. So if it is necessary to blame someone, blame God. >> >> The *Romans* killed Jesus. Anyone who's read Matthew, and has two >> neurons to rub together, knows that. >> >> Anyway... I could say more about Catholic tradition and theology, >> but c.o.v is definitely not the place to start a huge OT flame war. >> >> But then, there are many atheists/agnostics and Protestants on the >> list who would probably agree with me. >> >> -- >> Ron Johnson, Jr. >> Jefferson LA USA >> >> Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. >> Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! > >No, Adam and Eve and you and I killed Him ... > >if it was not for our sins, He would have not had >to come here and die for them ... > Why would an all powerful God need to go through such a pantomime ? Why did Jesus need to be treated as a scapegoat for our sins ? Why couldn't an all powerful God just decree that everybody was forgiven ? David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:38:25 -0700 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: <1188473905.146346.178540@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Aug 30, 7:12 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <1188172498.272179.37...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, ultra...@gmail.com writes: > >On Aug 26, 8:12 am, Ron Johnson wrote: > >> On 08/26/07 06:11, Neil Rieck wrote: > > >> > On Aug 25, 1:03 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: > >> >> On 08/25/07 07:14, Neil Rieck wrote: > > >> > [...snip...] > >> >>> Talk to anyone who was an adult during World War 2 and you'll find > >> >>> that many common folk were anti-Semitic even though they called > >> >>> themselves Christians. (The people telling you these facts will always > >> >> "The Jews killed Jesus." > > >> > Christians are taught that God sent his only son to die for humanity's > >> > sins. So if it is necessary to blame someone, blame God. > > >> The *Romans* killed Jesus. Anyone who's read Matthew, and has two > >> neurons to rub together, knows that. > > >> Anyway... I could say more about Catholic tradition and theology, > >> but c.o.v is definitely not the place to start a huge OT flame war. > > >> But then, there are many atheists/agnostics and Protestants on the > >> list who would probably agree with me. > > >> -- > >> Ron Johnson, Jr. > >> Jefferson LA USA > > >> Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. > >> Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! > > >No, Adam and Eve and you and I killed Him ... > > >if it was not for our sins, He would have not had > >to come here and die for them ... > > Why would an all powerful God need to go through such a pantomime ? Why did > Jesus need to be treated as a scapegoat for our sins ? Why couldn't an all > powerful God just decree that everybody was forgiven ? > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - because God requires a sacrifice for sin ... and also we need to change (repent) so the sin does not continue and perfect ourselves because no sin is allowed in the kingdom of God ... God does not force Himself on you, or force you to convert ... you have to choose ... ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 08:21:26 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: In article <1188473905.146346.178540@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes: > > because God requires a sacrifice for sin Says who? Surely an all powerfull god could change a little thing like that. Wait a minute, that's what Jesus, is supposed to have done and in standard Christian beleif Jesus is God. So you avoided answering the question. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:26:49 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: On 08/29/07 14:19, John Smith wrote: > To me the 'Bible' is the DEC Orange/Grey wall, just to bring things back > into the spirit of c.o.v. > > What more does anyone need? Updates for VMS 6? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:29:36 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: <46D6C640.4040402@comcast.net> John Smith wrote: > To me the 'Bible' is the DEC Orange/Grey wall, just to bring things back > into the spirit of c.o.v. > > What more does anyone need? > (And please don't "top post"! If you're running VMS V5.5-2 you're all set. For anything much more modern, the wall is no longer gray. My doc set is paper bound with color coded spines, ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:36:48 -0700 From: Sue Subject: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Message-ID: <1188488208.671745.261690@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> Dear Newsgrou, Great news the TCP/IP team just sent mail that the IPsec Early Adopters Kit (EAK) is now available for download (Alpha and Integrity). Details are below Warm Regards, Sue ------------------------------------------------------ http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ipsec/index.html Announcing the HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS IPsec T5.7 Early Adopters Kit (EAK) available IPsec functionality has been incorporated into and will be distributed as part of the HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.7 release for Integrity and Alpha systems. The EAK is being delivered as a complete HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS T5.7 kit that includes an early version of the IPsec functionality. Below is a brief overview. HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS IPsec OpenVMS IPsec provides an infrastructure to allow secure communications (authentication, integrity, confidentiality) over IP-based networks between systems and devices that implement the IPsec protocol suite. OpenVMS IPsec offers protection against replay attacks, packet tampering, and spoofing -- and it keeps others from viewing critical data such as passwords and financial information sent over the Internet. Features and Benefits Some of the benefits of OpenVMS IPsec are: - Adheres to all relevant IPsec standards, including IKE (Internet Key Exchange) for automated key generation. - Allows secure tunnels between business partners to be set up and torn down quickly and easily - Easily adopted and transparent to existing applications. Protects the customer's investment. - Demonstrated multi-vendor interoperability (future) - Thwarts attacks by encrypting data transmitted between two authenticated servers - Host-based authentication: - preshared keys - Digital certificates (future) - Full stateful packet inspection firewall - Command line interface (CLI) for policy configuration: - ipsec_config configuration utility based on the HP-UX IPSec ipsec_config utility - profile file to provide default parameter values that can be modified by the user - flexible rule-based security attribute and access control policy configurations -- allows combinations of IP addresses, prefix lengths, ports, and protocols in specifying security attributes configuration and packet filtering - dynamic configuration and batch mode for bulk configuration - Focused on end-system IPsec. OpenVMS IPsec can communicate with other end-systems (transport mode) or VPN gateways (tunnel mode). =========== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:41:55 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: John Reagan wrote: > Let's see if I can answer all the questions I spotted in this thread. > > 1) If the compiler knows that a particular data item is unaligned, (ie, > 3 bytes from the beginning of the structure), we will generate > instructions to access the data in pieces and reassemble it in > registers. We won't "give up". If you see the compiler generating > aligned code for known-to-be-unaligned data, it is a compiler bug. > Period. Tell us. > > 2) Speaking of compiler bugs, COBOL prior to V2.9 had several bugs where > it generated aligned code for known-to-be-unaligned data items. V2.9 > fixes all of them. > > 3) COBOL does not align/pad data items by default due to various > language issues. Look at /ALIGN and /ALIGN=PADDED for ways to get COBOL > to align items. Note that this will not (or at least should not) change > the amount of alignment faults. Poorly aligned data items are accessed > with multiple instructions that should not fault. Properly aligned data > items are accessed with single instructions that should not fault. > I would like to point out that all this stuff about alignment faults has *absolutely nothing* to do with the OP's question. Randy, if you're still reading... I'll throw in my 2 cents worth a little later in the thread if no one else has said anything. (Not to disparage John Reagan or anyone else, but this is a classic example of thread drift :-) -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:50:38 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: <2NtBi.7319$ZA.3805@newsb.telia.net> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/29/07 15:07, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> Ron Johnson wrote: >> >>> If RMS and Rdb don't use the exact same code, I'll be stunned. >>> >> The same code for *what* ? > > RLE-compressing duplicate data in fields. Rdb RLE-compression only compresses "space" characters. Like empty white-space at the end of an address field or something similar. I read the description of RMS RLE-compression here earlier that it does RLE-compression on any character (byte). Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:59:03 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: On 08/30/07 01:50, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 08/29/07 15:07, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >>> Ron Johnson wrote: >>> >>>> If RMS and Rdb don't use the exact same code, I'll be stunned. >>>> >>> The same code for *what* ? >> >> RLE-compressing duplicate data in fields. > > Rdb RLE-compression only compresses "space" characters. > Like empty white-space at the end of an address field > or something similar. > > I read the description of RMS RLE-compression here earlier > that it does RLE-compression on any character (byte). Well, it *has* been a while since I went to an Rdb Internals class. But I'd have sworn that it encoded any repeating characters. Maybe I'm confusing it with sorted index prefix compression, though. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:32:59 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: <46D6C70B.3090300@comcast.net> John Santos wrote: > John Reagan wrote: > >> Let's see if I can answer all the questions I spotted in this thread. >> >> 1) If the compiler knows that a particular data item is unaligned, >> (ie, 3 bytes from the beginning of the structure), we will generate >> instructions to access the data in pieces and reassemble it in >> registers. We won't "give up". If you see the compiler generating >> aligned code for known-to-be-unaligned data, it is a compiler bug. >> Period. Tell us. >> >> 2) Speaking of compiler bugs, COBOL prior to V2.9 had several bugs >> where it generated aligned code for known-to-be-unaligned data items. >> V2.9 fixes all of them. >> >> 3) COBOL does not align/pad data items by default due to various >> language issues. Look at /ALIGN and /ALIGN=PADDED for ways to get >> COBOL to align items. Note that this will not (or at least should >> not) change the amount of alignment faults. Poorly aligned data items >> are accessed with multiple instructions that should not fault. >> Properly aligned data items are accessed with single instructions that >> should not fault. >> > > I would like to point out that all this stuff about alignment faults has > *absolutely nothing* to do with the OP's question. > > Randy, if you're still reading... I'll throw in my 2 cents worth a little > later in the thread if no one else has said anything. > > (Not to disparage John Reagan or anyone else, but this is a classic > example of thread drift :-) > > c.o.v. is classic example! I won't try to classify it further! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:43:19 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Itanium Port Question Message-ID: John Santos wrote: > Randy, if you're still reading... I'll throw in my 2 cents worth a little > later in the thread if no one else has said anything. > > (Not to disparage John Reagan or anyone else, but this is a classic > example of thread drift :-) > > Quite true. Randy never did post the ELF messages (which I assume were coming from the linker?) Re-reading the OP, my comment would be the standard porting chant: If it is supported and works on OpenVMS Alpha, it should work on OpenVMS I64. If the application has dependencies on things like the Calling Standard, etc., it might require source changes but just about all them are straight forward changes to similar interfaces. -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 08:38:57 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: kernel question Message-ID: Maybe someone who knows the kernel better than I can explain this one. I've been wondering about it for years. It's my understanding that $GETJPI posts an AST to the target process to get information. I assume that it doesn't do anything special if the target process happens to be the current process. If so, then when the target process is the current process how is it that the current process can run user mode code in the main thread prior to return of the requested data? I thought the scheduler would honor the request for the AST in the current process and then the kernel would copy the data to the user's buffer before returning to user mode. Doesn't the AST code pre-empt the main thread? Or is there a delay somehow between AST completion and return to the kernel to copy out the data? I've seen this happen since VMS 3.0, where that results in the returned data being blank until an appropriate wait is done for the selected event flag. We updated from VMS 2.5 and saw this in a program where the programmer put in a comment that he didn't care about the warning that $GETJPI would become asynchronous because the main thread wouldn't get to execute anyhow. But it did execute and choked on seeing zeros where the data was to be returned. The fix, of course, was to use the then new $GETJPIW and curse the programmer for thinking he new better than DEC on how VMS would work in his future. But I've never seen anything in the internals manual or when reading the fiche that helped me understand the mechanism by which this happens. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:30:15 -0000 From: IanMiller Subject: Re: kernel question Message-ID: <1188484215.394805.167460@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Looking at the listings it appears that getting data from the current process is dealt as a special case. I have not read all of it to see if it it possible for this to be asynchronous rather that just copying the data from the relevant data structure (which I expect is synchronous). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:39:31 -0000 From: IanMiller Subject: Re: kernel question Message-ID: <1188484771.067327.27590@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> further reading indicates that for some items (e.g rights lists) or under certain conditions the special kernel AST mechanism is always used even for the current process. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 12:28:56 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: kernel question Message-ID: In article <1188484215.394805.167460@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, IanMiller writes: > Looking at the listings it appears that getting data from the current > process is dealt as a special case. I have not read all of it to see > if it it possible for this to be asynchronous rather that just copying > the data from the relevant data structure (which I expect is > synchronous). Curiouser and curiouser. Thanks for taking the time. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 12:30:55 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: kernel question Message-ID: In article <1188484771.067327.27590@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>, IanMiller writes: > further reading indicates that for some items (e.g rights lists) or > under certain conditions the special kernel AST mechanism is always > used even for the current process. I don't recall what the code was looking for, possibly the username, but since the rightslist didn't exist in VMS 2 when the code was written I'm fairly sure it wasn't intended to look there. On the other hand, if it was looking for the UIC I supposed the rightslist might be consulted for the corresponding string even if the binary UIC was wanted. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:41:55 +0200 From: Albrecht Schlosser Subject: Re: Lock problem with SAMBA/NMBD Message-ID: <11niq4-q24.ln1@news.hus-software.de> dpm_google@myths.com wrote: > Sorry, that should be > > http://www.myths.com/~dpm/vms/showlocks.c Thanks for sharing this, it's a nice listing. Albrecht ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:37:04 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: In article <62991$46d59568$cef8887a$24740@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > Jeff Goodwin wrote: > > I haven't seen these images available in a downloadable patch, but you > > should be able to get them from the Support Center. > > So, that explains to total lack of action on HP's part. The patch is > there, fixed and ready, but not being widely deployed. > > Considering that full interopability between 7.3 and 8.3 is specified in > the SPD, I would have thought that HP would have posted that patch on > the patch download area to remedy this very visible non-confirmance with > the SPD. Surely the patch maintainer is reading this thread and the patch will be up within 24 hours? ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 06:14:05 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: <3QGx2DOob4Cv@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > In article <62991$46d59568$cef8887a$24740@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei > writes: > >> Jeff Goodwin wrote: >> > I haven't seen these images available in a downloadable patch, but you >> > should be able to get them from the Support Center. >> >> So, that explains to total lack of action on HP's part. The patch is >> there, fixed and ready, but not being widely deployed. >> >> Considering that full interopability between 7.3 and 8.3 is specified in >> the SPD, I would have thought that HP would have posted that patch on >> the patch download area to remedy this very visible non-confirmance with >> the SPD. > > Surely the patch maintainer is reading this thread and the patch will be > up within 24 hours? What is the basis for your confidence that: 1. The patch has been fully tested in all configurations 2. The patch does not have some theoretical drawback known through methods other than testing 3. The patch is not tied up with some other patches to the same image(s) with the above two problems 4. The patch maintainer has not given up on comp.os.vms due to all the vitriol ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:52:15 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: <34zBi.222977$BX3.127235@newsfe13.lga> On 08/30/07 06:14, Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >> In article <62991$46d59568$cef8887a$24740@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei >> writes: >> >>> Jeff Goodwin wrote: >>>> I haven't seen these images available in a downloadable patch, but you >>>> should be able to get them from the Support Center. >>> So, that explains to total lack of action on HP's part. The patch is >>> there, fixed and ready, but not being widely deployed. >>> >>> Considering that full interopability between 7.3 and 8.3 is specified in >>> the SPD, I would have thought that HP would have posted that patch on >>> the patch download area to remedy this very visible non-confirmance with >>> the SPD. >> Surely the patch maintainer is reading this thread and the patch will be >> up within 24 hours? > > What is the basis for your confidence that: > > 1. The patch has been fully tested in all configurations > > 2. The patch does not have some theoretical drawback known > through methods other than testing > > 3. The patch is not tied up with some other patches to the > same image(s) with the above two problems > > 4. The patch maintainer has not given up on comp.os.vms due > to all the vitriol ? Boob-like faith in HP's innate goodness and competence? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 10:32:51 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: In article <34zBi.222977$BX3.127235@newsfe13.lga>, Ron Johnson writes: > On 08/30/07 06:14, Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> What is the basis for your confidence that: >> 4. The patch maintainer has not given up on comp.os.vms due >> to all the vitriol ? > > Boob-like faith in HP's innate goodness and competence? If HP is good and competent they will be working on real problems submitted by supported customers, rather than ewasting time on comp.os.vms. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:04:43 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: <8edb$46d6ea9c$cef8887a$2878@TEKSAVVY.COM> >> Surely the patch maintainer is reading this thread and the patch will be >> up within 24 hours? 1- The engineers would have known, at the time 8.3 came out, that they had put code in Monitor to prevent interoperability with Vax. By that time, it seemed pretty clear that the "roadmap" promise of an 8.* for VAX wasn't going to come, so they would have known that interoperability with VAX 7.3 was on the SPD. 2- So, they release 8.3 anyways with a broken Monitor and non-adherance to SPDs. And they remained silent on the whole thing. We find out a secret patch was made available in february 2007. 3- Compare this with an OS such as Linux where such a huge bug would not be tolerated and would be fixed very rapidly and the patch made very public. The real story here is that VMS engineering no longer has the resources to provide a proper , tested, patch for an important component of the OS that was released broken. And VMS management are perfectly happy to decided to not publically release the patch when it finally is made. As a hobbyist, I cannot complain. But the way this is handled certaintly doesn't give me confidence that VMS management still has access to enough engineering resources to fix problems in a timely fashion. They would rather hide them under a rug. I have yet to hear about whether the VMS version of Bind 8 (VAX) is immune from all the vulnerabilities that have been made public over the years. The does not do much good to the confidence level that VMS is still actively being developped. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:29:25 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: Larry Kilgallen wrote: > If HP is good and competent they will be working on real problems > submitted by supported customers, rather than ewasting time on > comp.os.vms. My unfortunate experience with LD driver wiping off 25% of my files resulted in the now independant engineer fixing it, and perhaps warning real customers not to use LD driver in bound volume sets, preventing disasters at paying customers. Waste of time you say ? Hobbyists tend to be early adopters and they will spot problems often before paying customers get hit by them. Listening to hobbyists would make a lot of sense. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:38:06 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Odd disk problem Message-ID: In article <1188409935.526087.282070@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar writes: > I have a shadowed system disks. Initially DKA0 is in the shadow set > all by itself. > > If I try to add DKA100 as a member the system starts logging soft > errors on DKA0 like crazy and the DSA0 keeps remounting and the shadow > never completes (or at least it bogs way down, I did not wait for a > very long time). And, the system bogs down. > > But I did a ana/med/exer on DKA0 and found no bad blocks. I have seen this with some old solid-state disks. What type of disks are you using? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 05:10:50 -0700 From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Odd disk problem Message-ID: <1188475850.311884.198370@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Aug 30, 3:38 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article <1188409935.526087.282...@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, > > tadamsmar writes: > > I have a shadowed system disks. Initially DKA0 is in the shadow set > > all by itself. > > > If I try to add DKA100 as a member the system starts logging soft > > errors on DKA0 like crazy and the DSA0 keeps remounting and the shadow > > never completes (or at least it bogs way down, I did not wait for a > > very long time). And, the system bogs down. > > > But I did a ana/med/exer on DKA0 and found no bad blocks. > > I have seen this with some old solid-state disks. What type of disks > are you using? ST32171WC on a Alphaserver 800. I restored the disk from a tape after the ana/med/exer. Now the shadow set works, not disk errors. I am not sure why it works now. the ana/med/exer did not find any bad blocks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:09:01 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: References: header (was Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system) Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00483CC185257347_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Michael Unger wrote on 08/29/2007 04:22:40 PM: > On 2007-08-29 20:13, "Tom Linden" wrote: > > > Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads > > by > > indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? > > I don't know Opera -- but there is *no* "References:" header at all in > that posting which made its way through Info-VAX. > I don't know enough about headers to discuss this. I have been using Info-VAX for years from NotesMail and this is the first time a threading issue has been mentioned. Perhaps it is related to not using a newsreader web protocol. I would welcome a pointer to any controlling RFP and a suggestion as to what to ask my Notes Admistration Service Desk (ironic emoticon suppressed). > Michael > > -- > Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. > My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. > --=_alternative 00483CC185257347_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> wrote on 08/29/2007 04:22:40 PM:

> On 2007-08-29 20:13, "Tom Linden" wrote:
>
> > Norm,  I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying threads  
> > by
> > indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread.  Why is that?
>
> I don't know Opera -- but there is *no* "References:" header at all in
> that posting which made its way through Info-VAX.
>


I don't know enough about headers to discuss this.  I have been using
Info-VAX for years from NotesMail and this is the first time a threading
issue has been mentioned.

Perhaps it is related to not using a newsreader web protocol.

I would welcome a pointer to any controlling RFP and a suggestion as to what
to ask my Notes Admistration Service Desk (ironic emoticon suppressed).

> Michael
>
> --
> Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.
> My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.
>
--=_alternative 00483CC185257347_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:05:02 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] > Sent: August 29, 2007 9:35 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > All, > > > > The following article may be of interest: (August 28, 2007) > > http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=3DRWT082807020032&p=3D1 > > > Mr Main, > > What will differentiate a 64 bit 8086 plugged into a CSI interface from > a 64 bit IA64 also plugged into a CSI interface ? > > If both have access to the same type of memory, cache etc, then won't > the industry standard architecture that has competition from AMD end up > being far superior than some proprietary IA64 thing that requires its > own proprietary funky compilers due to ist EPIC nature ? JF - Remember the relative importance to Cust's in terms of both what they have = and what they need In the future: 1. App =3D 50-60% 2. OS =3D 25-35% 3. Server HW - 10-15% While #3 gets all sorts of attention in techie newsgroups, in the pig pictu= re, #1 and #2 are much more important to Cust's. With a massive glut in availab= le compute cycles in most Cust's environment today, Cust's are not impressed with fant= astic new computer speeds that will increase their glut of available compute cycles e= ven more. Btw, this applies to all platforms. Also, keep in mind that there is now a massive trend to consolidating both = servers and DC's. This is a huge change from the distributed computing designs of the l= ast 10 years. Imho, the question that will become increasingly important in the future - = "Can a company afford OS platforms for their future centralized, very HA strategy that hav= e "one app, one OS" App/ISV support cultures and where the OS vendors release 5-20 secu= rity patches per month?" My advice to Cust's - think like Wayne Gretzky (ok, he's a hockey player) a= nd the way He became a great player .. "Do not skate to where the puck is, but where i= t will be in the next play sequence .." :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 13:23:55 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Message-ID: <5jnunbFfrdeU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] >> Sent: August 29, 2007 9:35 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect >> >> Main, Kerry wrote: >> > All, >> > >> > The following article may be of interest: (August 28, 2007) >> > http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=3DRWT082807020032&p=3D1 >> >> >> Mr Main, >> >> What will differentiate a 64 bit 8086 plugged into a CSI interface from >> a 64 bit IA64 also plugged into a CSI interface ? >> >> If both have access to the same type of memory, cache etc, then won't >> the industry standard architecture that has competition from AMD end up >> being far superior than some proprietary IA64 thing that requires its >> own proprietary funky compilers due to ist EPIC nature ? > > JF - > > Remember the relative importance to Cust's in terms of both what they have = > and what they > need In the future: > > 1. App =3D 50-60% > 2. OS =3D 25-35% > 3. Server HW - 10-15% > > While #3 gets all sorts of attention in techie newsgroups, in the pig pictu= > re, > #1 and #2 are much more important to Cust's. With a massive glut in availab= > le compute > cycles in most Cust's environment today, Cust's are not impressed with fant= > astic new > computer speeds that will increase their glut of available compute cycles e= > ven more. > > Btw, this applies to all platforms. > > Also, keep in mind that there is now a massive trend to consolidating both = > servers and > DC's. This is a huge change from the distributed computing designs of the l= > ast 10 years. > > Imho, the question that will become increasingly important in the future - = > "Can a company > afford OS platforms for their future centralized, very HA strategy that hav= > e "one app, > one OS" App/ISV support cultures and where the OS vendors release 5-20 secu= > rity patches > per month?" > > My advice to Cust's - think like Wayne Gretzky (ok, he's a hockey player) a= > nd the way > He became a great player .. "Do not skate to where the puck is, but where i= > t will be in > the next play sequence .." > >:-) Kerry, I don't mean to be obtuse but not only did you not answer any of the questions in the message you were replying to but one could easily draw the conclusion that if apps make up 50-60% of the reason for choosing a platform your evidence actually supports JF's implications about which platform has the better chance for success!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:29:42 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Message-ID: On 08/29/07 20:35, JF Mezei wrote: > Main, Kerry wrote: >> All, >> >> The following article may be of interest: (August 28, 2007) >> http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT082807020032&p=1 > > > Mr Main, > > What will differentiate a 64 bit 8086 plugged into a CSI interface from > a 64 bit IA64 also plugged into a CSI interface ? > > If both have access to the same type of memory, cache etc, then won't > the industry standard architecture that has competition from AMD end up > being far superior than some proprietary IA64 thing that requires its > own proprietary funky compilers due to ist EPIC nature ? Ssshhh! Causing Kerry's head to explode from the paradox would upset Mrs. Main. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:51:13 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On > Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > Sent: August 30, 2007 9:24 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect > > > Kerry, > I don't mean to be obtuse but not only did you not answer any of the > questions in the message you were replying to but one could easily draw > the conclusion that if apps make up 50-60% of the reason for choosing a > platform your evidence actually supports JF's implications about which > platform has the better chance for success!! > > bill > JF asked why a Cust might choose an Integrity based system with CSI over a = similar X86 system - I assume he meant CSI or AMD based. The answer which I provide= d, but which you appear to not believe, is that the App and OS play much greater i= nto the overall equation than low level HW. The CSI consideration is even lower on the ladder that the CPU platform dec= ision. My point is that Cust's no longer make major decisions based on low level h= ardware bits and bytes. And the wiz bang speed stuff no longer impresses them as it used= to. Cust's already have a huge and extremely embarrassing glut of available CPU cycles= in their environment. What will get their attention is being able to run secure, very HA environm= ents in much more centralized environments in a more cost effective manner with muc= h fewer resources. Hardware costs are a very small part of the overall equation. Hence, the OS and application criteria will be the bigger decision that has= greater weight than whether Integrity-CSI is x% faster than X86-CSI/AMD or vice ver= sa. If a Cust thinks Windows/Linux is good enough for a particular one app, one= OS application environment and they can deal with all of the monthly security = patches, then they can choose either the x86 CSI or the AMD system or the Integrity = CSI system. That's their decision. If the Cust values higher security, higher HA (local and multi-site), app s= tacking, native common file system and print/batch queues across all servers on all = sites etc, then they can choose OpenVMS and Integrity. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:26:50 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Message-ID: Main, Kerry wrote: > JF asked why a Cust might choose an Integrity based system with CSI over a similar > X86 system - I assume he meant CSI or AMD based. The answer which I provided, but > which you appear to not believe, is that the App and OS play much greater into > the overall equation than low level HW. You know perfectly well what my question was. And the fact that you chose to avoid the response means that you know very well what the response is and know that it is not a response that an HP employee can make in a public forum: AKA: IA64 will not longer have a large enough niche left to warrant it continued existance since 8086 will scale even further upwards. The 8086 is the architecture that has all the activity, the OS, the development, and most importantly, the applications. In cases where you have an architecture that clearly outperforms the 8086, then you may be able to justify porting to that architecture to benefit from the added performance. But in cases where a different architecture has similar or just marginally better performance, it just isn't worth even considering a port to it. For as long as HP refuses to acknowledge that IA64 has a bad image and uncertain future, for as long as HP refuses to commit to porting VMS beyond IA64, then how can one be taken seriously by trying to get new customers onto VMS ? The fact that HP has decided to tell Cerner to drop VMS in favour of HP-UX is a HUGE deal in my opinion. It is basically confirmation that HP has no intentions of continuing VMS development once the IA64 architecture is declared mature. Yes, the " is killing VMS" cries have been made for the last decade and a half. But this time, I fear that this is it. The end of the line. Except HP doesn't have the guts to actually say so, they will just announce that VMS is still actively being developped even when they are down to just one indian teenager minding the source code from his bamboo shack on a beach. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:38:05 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: In article <1188437058.314136.41760@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>, apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes: > > >On 29 ago, 22:18, Doug Phillips wrote: >> On Aug 29, 7:58 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > On 29 ago, 21:37, FrankS wrote: >> >> > > On Aug 29, 6:47 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> > > > On 29 ago, 19:37, Ron Johnson wrote: >> >> > > > > On 08/29/07 16:26, nitr...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> > > > > > On Aug 29, 12:57 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: >> > > > > >> I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s m= >essage >> > > > > >> if the day is the third sunday in the month. >> >> > > > > > Basic idea (use account with OPER priv): >> >> > > > > > $ if F$CVTIME(,,"weekday") .eqs. "Sunday" >> > > > > > $ then >> > > > > > $ day =3D F$CVTIME(,,"day") >> > > > > > $ if day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 then reply/username=3Dsyst= >em "3rd >> > > > > > sunday" >> > > > > > $ endif >> > > > > > $ submit /after=3Dtomorrow 'F$ENVIRONMENT("procedure") >> >> > > > > Does "week" start on the first day of the month, or ... >> >> > > > > Never mind. >> >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Ron Johnson, Jr. >> > > > > Jefferson LA USA >> >> > > > > Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. >> > > > > Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! >> >> > > > Maybe I need change the day from 22 to 23... >> >> > > > $ set nover >> > > > $ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,2, F$TIME())'" >> > > > $ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") >> > > > $ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") >> > > > $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. "14") .and. (day .lt. >> > > > "23") .and. (hour .eq. "12")) then goto dispara >> > > > $exit >> > > > $dispara: >> > > > $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys >> > > > $login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwa...@aaaaaaa.com.br""" >> > > > $exit >> >> > > > Thanks a lot for your examples !- Hide quoted text - >> >> > > As was pointed out, you must use .GT. 14 and .LT. 22 >> >> > > Why are you including (HOUR .EQ. 12) ??? >> >> > > If you schedule the batch job to submit itself every morning then it >> > > will send the message each morning. If you need this to happen only >> > > during the noon hour then submit the job to run at noon. >> >> > > I would be concerned that by including (HOUR .EQ. 12) you might end up >> > > off schedule and not get the message being sent even though the day is >> > > the third Sunday.- Ocultar texto entre aspas - >> >> > > - Mostrar texto entre aspas - >> >> > In reality, this procedure will stay in a batch queue, running each 5 >> > minutes. >> > If day=3DSunday, 3rd Sunday, hour=3D12 than send me an e-mail. >> > Thank you. >> >> I wondered about the (hour .eq. 12) too, but figured maybe there was >> more to it than what was presented. You realize that if it checks >> every 5 minutes, the hour will be 12 for probably 11 of the times you >> check? >> >> If we're going to get picky without changing the "if" logic, though, >> I'd lose the goto and do: >> >> $ if week .eqs. "Sunday" .and. day .gt. 14 .and. day .lt. 22 .and. >> hour .eq. 12 >> $ then >> $ mail/subj=3D" >>> Restarte o Server <<< " sys >> $ login:restart_server.txt "smtp%""schwa...@aaaaaaa.com.br""" >> $ endif >> $exit >> >> But, I'm not going to get picky about other folks coding techniques >> given some of the spaghetti I've written:-) >> >> There are of course other ways to compute the nth xday of the month, >> and I'm sure we'll see some of them. >> >> You could compute the date-time you want to do the "restart", check >> and execute when you've reached or gone past that time, and compute >> the next date-time within that conditional code stream.- Ocultar texto en= >tre aspas - >> >> - Mostrar texto entre aspas - > > >I made this change: > >$ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,4, F$TIME())'" >$ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") >$ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") >$ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. 14) .and. (day .lt. >22) .and. (hour .eq. "12:0")) then goto dispara > > >and I=B4ll receive only 2 alerts (maybe only 1) You can avoid the two date compares with this BTW: ((day .gt. 14) .and. (day .lt.22)) == ((day-1)/7 .eq. 2) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.jpg ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 08:15:44 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: In article <1188417464.868176.206600@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes: > Hi: > I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message > if the day is the third sunday in the month. > Can you help me ? > Thank you. > You could help us if you'ld post in ASCII so I don't have to guess which character in which MS font encodes as =B4 in MIME. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 08:25:40 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: In article <1188430398.401567.111110@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: > On Aug 29, 5:47 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: [...] >> $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. "14") .and. (day .lt. >> "23") .and. (hour .eq. "12")) then goto dispara > > You don't want " " around numbers unless you first convert them to a > string, and then you need to use .gts. and .lts. if you're comparing > strings. Technically, the quotation marks around the numbers are harmless. They result in the numbers being treated as text literals. But since the .GT. and .LT. operators are used, those text literals are automatically converted to numeric before the comparison. Stylistically, the quotation marks are jarring and are a choice that tends to indicate a poor understanding of DCL. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 13:25:56 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <5jnur4FfrdeU2@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <1188417464.868176.206600@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes: >> Hi: >> I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message >> if the day is the third sunday in the month. >> Can you help me ? >> Thank you. >> > > You could help us if you'ld post in ASCII so I don't have to guess > which character in which MS font encodes as =B4 in MIME. Gee whiz Bob, is it really that hard to tell which character belongs there? And the lack of them does nothing to obscure the original intent of the message. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:38:52 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188488332.884487.121370@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Aug 30, 8:25 am, bri...@encompasserve.org wrote: > In article <1188430398.401567.111...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: > > > On Aug 29, 5:47 pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > [...] > >> $ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. "14") .and. (day .lt. > >> "23") .and. (hour .eq. "12")) then goto dispara > > > You don't want " " around numbers unless you first convert them to a > > string, and then you need to use .gts. and .lts. if you're comparing > > strings. > > Technically, the quotation marks around the numbers are harmless. > They result in the numbers being treated as text literals. But > since the .GT. and .LT. operators are used, those text literals > are automatically converted to numeric before the comparison. > > Stylistically, the quotation marks are jarring and are a choice that > tends to indicate a poor understanding of DCL. Yes, I'm sure most of us have typo'ed something similar and later found that it worked, but as you say, it isn't the "right" way to do it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:52:50 -0700 From: Sue Subject: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <1188489170.332475.258080@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> Dear Newsgroup, If you remember we have done VMS License plates over the years. The last one we did had "When downtime is NOT an option" I was thinking about doing them again for our 30th. Let me know what you think. Warm Regards, Sue ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:37:47 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: Sue wrote: >"When downtime is NOT an option" > > I was thinking about doing them again for our 30th. Let me know what > you think. "Can still walk without a cane" "Even on life support, it can still add 2 and 2 together" "Adopt a VMS system before it's too late" "Go back to the good old days of computing: program in Macro on VMS !" "VMS will still be in use long after HP is dead" and of course: "HP is killing VMS as a 30th birthday present" ------------------------------ Date: 30 Aug 2007 17:03:05 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <5jobi8Fim6pU1@mid.individual.net> In article , JF Mezei writes: > Sue wrote: >>"When downtime is NOT an option" >> >> I was thinking about doing them again for our 30th. Let me know what >> you think. > > > "Can still walk without a cane" > > "Even on life support, it can still add 2 and 2 together" > > "Adopt a VMS system before it's too late" > > "Go back to the good old days of computing: program in Macro on VMS !" > > "VMS will still be in use long after HP is dead" > > > and of course: > > "HP is killing VMS as a 30th birthday present" C'mon JF. Don't hold back like that. Tell us what you really think!! :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:35:03 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <409e2$46d6ffca$cef8887a$28780@TEKSAVVY.COM> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > C'mon JF. Don't hold back like that. Tell us what you really think!! :-) This would require a few graphics, but it would be in the tone of the Monty Python dead parrot sketch.... "I assure you, VMS isn't dead" Or: "Despite all attempts, VMS isn't dead yet" "VMS, strong enough to survive all attempts to kill it". "Two companies have died trying to kill VMS, but VMS is still alive." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:16:38 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Wisconsin professor says global warming a hoax! Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:42:53 -0700, Neil Rieck >wrote: > >> On Aug 26, 10:55 am, "Tom Linden" wrote: >>> On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 05:34:17 -0700, Neil Rieck >>> wrote: >> [...snip...] >>> >>> Read up on Sunspots. AGM is not a fait accompli. Increased CO2 could >>> be >>> a cause of increased global temperature, or it could be a coincidence, I >>> don't think we have enough data to answer that question, afterall, we >>> have had warmer periods in the past. I promise this is my last post on >>> this Off Topic. >>> >> >> I don't need to "read up on sunspots" to agree with you. Stellar >> evolution, as described by Hertzsprung-Russell, predicts that stars >> will get hotter as they get older. Our Sun is now 30% hotter than it >> was 4 billion years ago and it will get really hot long before it >> reaches the Red-Giant phase billions of years from now. All this heat >> is releasing another green house gas, methane, currently trapped under >> melting ice. >> >Neil, your are confusing the issue, stellar evoultion has nothing to do >with this discussion, that is an entirely different time scale. > >> So as the sun gets hotter we can't say that an expected ice-age is >> just around the corner because at some point there just won't be >> anymore ice. > >We will have a thousand ice ages before the sun gets that big. > Yes it's estimated that it will have become hot enough to evaporate the oceans in about 1 Billion to 1.5 Billions years. Though probably the only things still living on earth at around that time will be extremophile bacteria - complex life having long since died out. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >> >> But the bigger point is this: we've been provided with brains and >> technology so it would be a terrible waste if we didn't try to do >> something about this problem. >It may not be a problem but rather a phenomenon, or manifestation >> >> NSR >> > > > >-- >PL/I for OpenVMS >www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:43:40 -0700 From: Sue Subject: World Wide Rdb Forums Message-ID: <1188488620.939002.27570@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Dear Newsgroup The following is time sensitive and since many folks have been on vacation I wanted to make sure you did not miss out on this valuable resource so this is a reminder notice. Here is the web site: http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/rdb/tech_fo= rums/index.html Warm Regards, Sue ---------------------------- Dear Oracle Rdb Customers, The Oracle Rdb Engineering team is pleased to announce the 2007 series of Oracle Rdb Technical Forums. These Forums are offered at no charge and present a series of sessions conducted by acknowledged technical specialists from Oracle Rdb Engineering and the Oracle Rdb community at large. The Oracle Rdb Technical Forums should be considered a requirement for anyone wishing to remain up-to-date with all the latest enhancements and optimizations in Oracle Rdb. The location and dates for this year's Forums are: Europe September 10-11, Stockholm, Sweden September 13-14, Zurich, Switzerland September 17-18, Brussels, Belgium September 20-21, Reading, United Kingdom North America November 5-6, Nashua, NH, USA November 8-9, Redwood Shores, CA, USA Note: Oracle OpenWorld is being held in San Francisco November 11-15 Australia December 3-4, Sydney The topics covered will include: Oracle Rdb Product Direction and Roadmaps Oracle Rdb 7.2 for Itanium=AE Architecture-Based HP Integrity Servers New Oracle Rdb Native I64 Code Generation for Increased Performance on HP Integrity Servers. What's New in Oracle Rdb Network Access and Oracle Remote Rdb New Tools to Help Monitor and Manage Your Oracle Rdb Databases Oracle Rdb Query Tuning Database Connectivity Including the New Oracle Rdb Data Provider for .NET Report on SQL Standards 2008 Experiences Using Backup Compression and Encryption Providing Information from Your Production Database on the Web Using Java Oracle Rdb Support FAQs Oracle Rdb Futures And Other Topics ... Forum locations, hotel and other information is now or will shortly be available from individual registration pages for each venue. Detailed agendas for each event will be posted in a few weeks. Training: There will be Oracle Rdb training events offered by JCC Consulting in conjunction with all the 2007 Oracle Rdb Technical Forums. This will include a free one-day workshop on JCC's LogMiner Loader utility and at some locations JCC will also hold week-long Oracle Rdb seminars. Topics for these seminars will be based on customer demand with potential topics being: a special DBA seminar; Oracle Rdb Internals; Physical Database Design; Query Tuning and Locking or "Through the Looking Glass", a new seminar covering what you can learn from RMU Show Stats. The schedule for the JCC training events is listed below. All JCC training events will be held in the same office locations used for the Oracle Rdb Technical Forums. You can find details on the 2007 Forum related training on JCC's website. Stockholm JCC Seminar: Monday September 3 through Friday September 7 JCC LogMiner Loader Workshop: Sunday, September 9 Zurich JCC LogMiner Loader Workshop: Wednesday, September 12 Brussels JCC LogMiner Loader Workshop: Wednesday, September 19 Reading JCC LogMiner Loader Workshop: Saturday, September 22 JCC Seminar: Monday September 24 through Friday September 28 Nashua JCC LogMiner Loader Workshop: Sunday, November 4 Redwood Shores JCC LogMiner Loader Workshop: Saturday, November 10 Sydney JCC LogMiner Loader Workshop: Wednesday, December 5 JCC Seminar: dates to be announced Oracle Rdb Engineering is very excited to be bringing the 2007 Oracle Rdb Technical Forums to you. If you've been to a Forum before you know that they offer a unique opportunity to interact directly with the Engineering team as well as with your other colleagues in the Oracle Rdb community. I encourage you to register for one of these events soon. We hope to see you at one of the 2007 Oracle Rdb Technical Forums! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:50:32 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Xyplex RJ45-DB9 wiring Message-ID: Trying to bring up a terminal server, and have difficult time getting the wiring correct for the RJ45-DB9 (to go on OPA0) using straight through cable. Anybody out there gone through the excercise? And yes have googled and found various diagrams none of which seem to work. TIA -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:45:43 -0700 From: Sue Subject: Your chance to be involved in our 30th anniversary Message-ID: <1188488743.619705.19260@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Dear Newsgroup, The OpenVMS Group is working on a number of things for our 30th anniversary. What are we doing, you may ask and how can you help. We are putting together a CD with some great information, we have a PR plan around the 30th, there is a new screen saver, new presentation all kinds of things. Some of the regions are planning celebrations and offers. If you need the graphic for the 30th please let either Dan or myself know. We really look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your support. Warm Regards, Sue -------------- This is important ---------------- Ways you can help 1. HP PR would like to talk to several of our customers about your experiences with OpenVMS and the 30th anniversary of OpenVMS. This is an opportunity to help out in the most public part of this occasion -- the PR campaign. We only need a few minutes of your time to hear about your best, most fun, etc. reasons for loving OpenVMS. Please get in touch with Dan Klein as soon as you can if you have questions or would like to help out. Dan.Klein@hp.com 2. Your funny stories, stories about reliability, longevity, migration and even your mistakes (and what you did about them). AND You know you are running OpenVMS when... The best thing about OpenVMS is... Because of OpenVMS my business (my employer) is able to... A web form has been set up for this purpose; http://h71000.www7.hp.com/fb_30years.html We plan to post as many of your stories and factoids as possible when we launch our 30th anniversary web pages. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.476 ************************