INFO-VAX Fri, 31 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 478 Contents: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system RE: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK RE: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Re: I have to tell you this Re: I have to tell you this Re: I have to tell you this Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: MONITOR with different architectures Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: Third sunday in the month Re: VMS License Plates Re: VMS License Plates RE: VMS License Plates RE: VMS License Plates Re: VMS License Plates Re: VMS License Plates Re: VMS License Plates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 Aug 2007 16:50:10 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: <5jqv62FtrjmU1@mid.individual.net> In article , John Santos writes: > Tom Linden wrote: >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:10:07 -0700, Bob Koehler >> wrote: >> >>> In article , "Tom Linden" >>> writes: >>> >>>> >>>> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying >>>> threads >>>> by >>>> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? >>> >>> >>> An Opera bug? anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's reply >>> as the next in thread. >>> >> Don't think so. >> >> > Everything looked properly threaded to me (Mozilla on VMS). I have put up a graphical representation of the thread as it exists now on my web page (generated by my newsreader). http://www.cs.uofs.edu/~bill/Thread.jpg If you look you will see that Norm's messages are "threaded" by the subject, but not included within the thread it self each one starting a new thread within this subject. For whatever reason, the References: header has been removed thus making the message part of the subject line but not threaded based on it's references to other messages but merely by the date/time it was posted. I will leave it to others to determine how to fix this as I do not even know what he is using to read/post news. I suspect he is doing it thru Info-VAX and I have no idea how that might affect what headers are preserved and which are lost. bill (Who has been administering real News Sites since we did this using UUCP.) -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:02:14 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005D96CE85257348_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu wrote on 08/31/2007 12:50:10 PM: > In article , > John Santos writes: > > Tom Linden wrote: > >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:10:07 -0700, Bob Koehler > >> wrote: > >> > >>> In article , "Tom Linden" > >>> writes: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying > >>>> threads > >>>> by > >>>> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? > >>> > >>> > >>> An Opera bug? anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's reply > >>> as the next in thread. > >>> > >> Don't think so. > >> > >> > > Everything looked properly threaded to me (Mozilla on VMS). > > I have put up a graphical representation of the thread as it exists > now on my web page (generated by my newsreader). > http://www.cs.uofs.edu/~bill/Thread.jpg > > If you look you will see that Norm's messages are "threaded" by the > subject, but not included within the thread it self each one starting > a new thread within this subject. For whatever reason, the References: > header has been removed thus making the message part of the subject > line but not threaded based on it's references to other messages but > merely by the date/time it was posted. I will leave it to others to > determine how to fix this as I do not even know what he is using to > read/post news. I suspect he is doing it thru Info-VAX and I have no > idea how that might affect what headers are preserved and which are > lost. > > bill > (Who has been administering real News Sites since we did this using UUCP.) I remain ready to relay any explanation to our NotesMail support, if and when anyone can demonstrate what is or is not happening that is repeatable. [SPR?] > > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include --=_alternative 005D96CE85257348_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu wrote on 08/31/2007 12:50:10 PM:

> In article <bPJBi.13395$Yg.8368@trnddc02>,
>    John Santos <john@egh.com> writes:
> > Tom Linden wrote:
> >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:10:07 -0700, Bob Koehler  
> >> <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <op.txt19h06hv4qyg@murphus>, "Tom Linden"  
> >>> <tom@kednos.company> writes:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Norm,  I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying  
> >>>> threads
> >>>> by
> >>>> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread.  Why is that?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>    An Opera bug?  anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's reply
> >>>    as the next in thread.
> >>>
> >> Don't think so.
> >>
> >>
> > Everything looked properly threaded to me (Mozilla on VMS).
>  
> I have put up a graphical representation of the thread as it exists
> now on my web page (generated by my newsreader).
>                http://www.cs.uofs.edu/~bill/Thread.jpg
>
> If you look you will see that Norm's messages are "threaded" by the
> subject, but not included within the thread it self each one starting
> a new thread within this subject.  For whatever reason, the References:
> header has been removed thus making the message part of the subject
> line but not threaded based on it's references to other messages but
> merely by the date/time it was posted.  I will leave it to others to
> determine how to fix this as I do not even know what he is using to
> read/post news.  I suspect he is doing it thru Info-VAX and I have no
> idea how that might affect what headers are preserved and which are
> lost.
>
> bill
> (Who has been administering real News Sites since we did this using UUCP.)


I remain ready to relay any explanation to our NotesMail support, if and
when anyone can demonstrate what is or is not happening that is repeatable.
[SPR?]

>
>  
> --
> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
> bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton   |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  
--=_alternative 005D96CE85257348_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:25:28 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: <46D84F08.8080208@comcast.net> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > > > > > bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu wrote on 08/31/2007 12:50:10 PM: > > > In article , > > John Santos writes: > > > Tom Linden wrote: > > >> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:10:07 -0700, Bob Koehler > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> In article , "Tom Linden" > > >>> writes: > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Norm, I use Opera which has a pretty good newsreader, displaying > > >>>> threads > > >>>> by > > >>>> indentation, but your reply appears as a new thread. Why is that? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> An Opera bug? anunews didn't have any problem finding Norm's > reply > > >>> as the next in thread. > > >>> > > >> Don't think so. > > >> > > >> > > > Everything looked properly threaded to me (Mozilla on VMS). > > > > I have put up a graphical representation of the thread as it exists > > now on my web page (generated by my newsreader). > > http://www.cs.uofs.edu/~bill/Thread.jpg > > > > If you look you will see that Norm's messages are "threaded" by the > > subject, but not included within the thread it self each one starting > > a new thread within this subject. For whatever reason, the References: > > header has been removed thus making the message part of the subject > > line but not threaded based on it's references to other messages but > > merely by the date/time it was posted. I will leave it to others to > > determine how to fix this as I do not even know what he is using to > > read/post news. I suspect he is doing it thru Info-VAX and I have no > > idea how that might affect what headers are preserved and which are > > lost. > > > > bill > > (Who has been administering real News Sites since we did this using > UUCP.) > > I remain ready to relay any explanation to our NotesMail support, if and > when anyone can demonstrate what is or is not happening that is repeatable. > [SPR?] > > > > > > > -- > > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three > wolves > > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > > University of Scranton | > > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Norm, Do you have any idea why your messages always appear in 4 point type? I need a magnifying glass to read them in the original. I can, of course, ask Netscape to display a larger font size but it's a nuisance! Yours are the ONLY messages that appear this way! ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 2007 17:44:56 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Exporting data tied up in a VAX/VMS system Message-ID: <5jr2coFu5qfU1@mid.individual.net> In article , norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > I remain ready to relay any explanation to our NotesMail support, if and > when anyone can demonstrate what is or is not happening that is > repeatable. > [SPR?] Well, you might ask them to stop stripping off the References: Header. :-) This one also does not have it and it , too, appears as the start of a new thread within this subject. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:05:13 -0400 From: "Farrell, Michael" Subject: RE: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Message-ID: <8330CD39B64C934DBE63CB6D4CEE37D01BFDDD@NJ103EX2.EAST.VIS.COM> Not being that conversant in TCP/IP issues, so I will ask: Does this mean that we will have SSL based FTP access (ftps) on VMS in the [near] future? (And maybe a better, more robust SSH based FTP (sftp)? TIA Mike FArrell -----Original Message----- From: Rich Jordan [mailto:jordan@ccs4vms.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:49 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK On Aug 30, 10:36 am, Sue wrote: > Dear Newsgrou, > > Great news the TCP/IP team just sent mail that the IPsec Early > Adopters Kit (EAK) is now available for download (Alpha and > Integrity). Details are below > > Warm Regards, > Sue > ------------------------------------------------------ > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ipsec/index.html > > Announcing the HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS IPsec T5.7 Early > Adopters Kit (EAK) available > > IPsec functionality has been incorporated into and will be distributed > as part of the HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.7 release for > Integrity and Alpha systems. The EAK is being delivered as a complete > HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS T5.7 kit that includes an early version > of the IPsec functionality. Below is a brief overview. > > HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS IPsec > > OpenVMS IPsec provides an infrastructure to allow secure > communications > (authentication, integrity, confidentiality) over IP-based > networks > between systems and devices that implement the IPsec protocol > suite. > OpenVMS IPsec offers protection against replay attacks, packet > tampering, and spoofing -- and it keeps others from viewing > critical > data such as passwords and financial information sent over the > Internet. > > Features and Benefits > > Some of the benefits of OpenVMS IPsec are: > > - Adheres to all relevant IPsec standards, including IKE (Internet > Key Exchange) for automated key generation. > > - Allows secure tunnels between business partners to be set up and > torn > down quickly and easily > > - Easily adopted and transparent to existing applications. > Protects > the customer's investment. > > - Demonstrated multi-vendor interoperability (future) > > - Thwarts attacks by encrypting data transmitted between two > authenticated servers > > - Host-based authentication: > - preshared keys > - Digital certificates (future) > > - Full stateful packet inspection firewall > > - Command line interface (CLI) for policy configuration: > - ipsec_config configuration utility based on the HP-UX > IPSec ipsec_config utility > - profile file to provide default parameter values that can be > modified by the user > - flexible rule-based security attribute and access control > policy configurations -- allows combinations of IP > addresses, > prefix lengths, ports, and protocols in specifying security > attributes configuration and packet filtering > - dynamic configuration and batch mode for bulk configuration > > - Focused on end-system IPsec. OpenVMS IPsec can communicate with > other end-systems (transport mode) or VPN gateways (tunnel > mode). > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Thank you, Sue. We've been looking for this to happen (I wish I had time to start looking at it now). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:24:20 +0200 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Message-ID: Farrell, Michael wrote: > Not being that conversant in TCP/IP issues, so I will ask: > > Does this mean that we will have SSL based FTP access (ftps) on VMS in > the [near] future? (And maybe a better, more robust SSH based FTP > (sftp)? > No or even better: IPsec will avoid to have all those individual S* programs and protocols. IPsec authenticates and encrypts at the IP level, and all applications like rsh,telnet,ftp can use it transparently. I wished it would have existed before all those individual S* utilities have been introduced. But it probably will be a looong time until all installations I communicate with introduce IPsec ... -- Joseph Huber - http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:43:00 -0600 From: Dan O'Reilly Subject: RE: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20070831064245.077ba498@192.168.0.11> Sure...contact Process Software... At 06:05 AM 8/31/2007, Farrell, Michael wrote: >Not being that conversant in TCP/IP issues, so I will ask: > >Does this mean that we will have SSL based FTP access (ftps) on VMS in >the [near] future? (And maybe a better, more robust SSH based FTP >(sftp)? > >TIA > >Mike FArrell > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rich Jordan [mailto:jordan@ccs4vms.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:49 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK > >On Aug 30, 10:36 am, Sue wrote: > > Dear Newsgrou, > > > > Great news the TCP/IP team just sent mail that the IPsec Early > > Adopters Kit (EAK) is now available for download (Alpha and > > Integrity). Details are below > > > > Warm Regards, > > Sue > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ipsec/index.html > > > > Announcing the HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS IPsec T5.7 Early > > Adopters Kit (EAK) available > > > > IPsec functionality has been incorporated into and will be distributed > > as part of the HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.7 release for > > Integrity and Alpha systems. The EAK is being delivered as a complete > > HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS T5.7 kit that includes an early version > > of the IPsec functionality. Below is a brief overview. > > > > HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS IPsec > > > > OpenVMS IPsec provides an infrastructure to allow secure > > communications > > (authentication, integrity, confidentiality) over IP-based > > networks > > between systems and devices that implement the IPsec protocol > > suite. > > OpenVMS IPsec offers protection against replay attacks, packet > > tampering, and spoofing -- and it keeps others from viewing > > critical > > data such as passwords and financial information sent over the > > Internet. > > > > Features and Benefits > > > > Some of the benefits of OpenVMS IPsec are: > > > > - Adheres to all relevant IPsec standards, including IKE (Internet > > Key Exchange) for automated key generation. > > > > - Allows secure tunnels between business partners to be set up and > > torn > > down quickly and easily > > > > - Easily adopted and transparent to existing applications. > > Protects > > the customer's investment. > > > > - Demonstrated multi-vendor interoperability (future) > > > > - Thwarts attacks by encrypting data transmitted between two > > authenticated servers > > > > - Host-based authentication: > > - preshared keys > > - Digital certificates (future) > > > > - Full stateful packet inspection firewall > > > > - Command line interface (CLI) for policy configuration: > > - ipsec_config configuration utility based on the HP-UX > > IPSec ipsec_config utility > > - profile file to provide default parameter values that can be > > modified by the user > > - flexible rule-based security attribute and access control > > policy configurations -- allows combinations of IP > > addresses, > > prefix lengths, ports, and protocols in specifying security > > attributes configuration and packet filtering > > - dynamic configuration and batch mode for bulk configuration > > > > - Focused on end-system IPsec. OpenVMS IPsec can communicate with > > other end-systems (transport mode) or VPN gateways (tunnel > > mode). > > > > =========== > > >Thank you, Sue. We've been looking for this to happen (I wish I had >time to start looking at it now). ------ +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Dan O'Reilly | "There are 10 types of people in this | | Principal Engineer | world: those who understand binary | | Process Software | and those who don't." | | http://www.process.com | | +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 2007 08:53:08 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Message-ID: In article , Joseph Huber writes: > Farrell, Michael wrote: >> Not being that conversant in TCP/IP issues, so I will ask: >> >> Does this mean that we will have SSL based FTP access (ftps) on VMS in >> the [near] future? (And maybe a better, more robust SSH based FTP >> (sftp)? >> > > No or even better: IPsec will avoid to have all those individual S* > programs and protocols. IPsec authenticates and encrypts at the IP > level, and all applications like rsh,telnet,ftp can use it transparently. > I wished it would have existed before all those individual S* utilities > have been introduced. Not better. Not worse. Different. It's usually done at the router or firewall level rather than at the end nodes. The application doesn't know that anything special is going on. You could, for instance use unencrypted telnet or unencrypted ftp. Routers in the middle take care of encrypting the resulting traffic before it is passed onto the insecure network. With IPSEC you tend to statically configure an encrypted link connecting a set of networks at one end and a set of networks at the other. Traffic coming in from the near side that matches the "interesting traffic" access list is encrypted and encapsulated and addressed to the far side's crypto endpoint. The far side endpoint then de-encapsulates, decrypts and delivers. And vice versa -- traffic on the far side that matches the inverse "interesting traffic" list is encrypted, encapsulated and addressed to the near side endpoint. The "interesting traffic" lists must be inverses. They are used to build individual network to network security agreements (SA's) for each network pair. Each encrypted packet sent across the link must have a matching SA at both ends. [So if I had 192.168.0 and 192.168.2 on my side and you had 10.1.0 and 10.1.2 on your side, that's four SA's: 192.168.0 <=> 10.1.0 192.168.2 <=> 10.1.0 192.168.0 <=> 10.1.2 192.168.2 <=> 10.1.2] The configuration procedures for IPSEC links vary from vendor to vendor and from platform to platform. There are a fair number of settings that must match to get the things running. It can be finicky work. Some implementations may be able to streamline the configuration process in a homogenous environment, saving the network administrator the scut work of figuring out an appropriate topology and configuring every single encrypted link in the resulting mesh. One common case where this streamlining takes place is with VPN client network access. [The client and the concentrator can bring up an IPSEC connection without requiring each possible client connection from each possible hotel room on the Internet to be statically configured in advance] From what I read, the initial VMS offering is fairly simplistic and requires manual static preconfiguration with agreed-upon "shared secrets" at both ends of each encrypted link. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 2007 11:16:57 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP for OpenVMS IPsec EAK Message-ID: In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: > In article , Joseph Huber writes: >> Farrell, Michael wrote: >>> Not being that conversant in TCP/IP issues, so I will ask: >>> >>> Does this mean that we will have SSL based FTP access (ftps) on VMS in >>> the [near] future? (And maybe a better, more robust SSH based FTP >>> (sftp)? >>> >> >> No or even better: IPsec will avoid to have all those individual S* >> programs and protocols. IPsec authenticates and encrypts at the IP >> level, and all applications like rsh,telnet,ftp can use it transparently. >> I wished it would have existed before all those individual S* utilities >> have been introduced. > > Not better. Not worse. Different. It's usually done at the router or > firewall level rather than at the end nodes. The application doesn't > know that anything special is going on. You could, for instance use > unencrypted telnet or unencrypted ftp. Routers in the middle take > care of encrypting the resulting traffic before it is passed onto the > insecure network. Doing that at an intermediate node, in particular a node at the ISP, was proposed some years ago by some large ISPs... ...with the backing of the US National Security Agency. Those interested in privacy from all fought hard to establish that "end to end" encryption was the desired target. Now if you don't trust your own system manager you might see a problem in system-level encryption and want it at the application level, but ultimately the system manager has access. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:35:33 -0700 From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: I have to tell you this Message-ID: <1188556533.312080.171080@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 30, 8:36 pm, Sue wrote: > Dear Newsgroup, > > So you probably know that I like to talk to folks. Anyway, this will > be no big deal to you but its really cool to me. So I was talking > (well really exchanging email) with this customer this week. He is a > Sys Admin at a big company and he has one (1) colleague so there is > two of them (2) and they manage 260 VMS systems. Do you know how cool > that is. Can you imagine doing that on lesser systems? Brian and Susan > if you are reading this you are doing an awesome job! > > Have a great weekend everyone. > > Sue This is great news and I'd give my eye teeth to learn the name of their organization. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 2007 07:57:59 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: I have to tell you this Message-ID: In article <1188520594.204299.85830@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, Sue writes: > Dear Newsgroup, > > So you probably know that I like to talk to folks. Anyway, this will > be no big deal to you but its really cool to me. So I was talking > (well really exchanging email) with this customer this week. He is a > Sys Admin at a big company and he has one (1) colleague so there is > two of them (2) and they manage 260 VMS systems. Do you know how cool > that is. Can you imagine doing that on lesser systems? Brian and Susan > if you are reading this you are doing an awesome job! Put that in the advertising! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:08:03 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: I have to tell you this Message-ID: <1188565683.852324.48570@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Aug 30, 8:36 pm, Sue wrote: > Dear Newsgroup, > > So you probably know that I like to talk to folks. Anyway, this will > be no big deal to you but its really cool to me. So I was talking > (well really exchanging email) with this customer this week. He is a > Sys Admin at a big company and he has one (1) colleague so there is > two of them (2) and they manage 260 VMS systems. Do you know how cool > that is. Can you imagine doing that on lesser systems? Brian and Susan > if you are reading this you are doing an awesome job! > > Have a great weekend everyone. > > Sue This reminds me of the VAX that was supposedly walled up and was found supposedly years later still running!!! Has anyone ever tracked down the story on this? AEF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:52:56 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: In article <3QGx2DOob4Cv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > > Surely the patch maintainer is reading this thread and the patch will be > > up within 24 hours? > > What is the basis for your confidence that: > > 1. The patch has been fully tested in all configurations The problem has been known long enough that there should have been enough time. > 2. The patch does not have some theoretical drawback known > through methods other than testing Whatever happened to DEC quality? > 3. The patch is not tied up with some other patches to the > same image(s) with the above two problems Without further evidence, that seems unlikely. > 4. The patch maintainer has not given up on comp.os.vms due > to all the vitriol ? Actually, without the discussion here the patch might never see the light of day. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:30:40 -0400 From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article <3QGx2DOob4Cv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > > > > Surely the patch maintainer is reading this thread and the patch will be > > > up within 24 hours? > > > > What is the basis for your confidence that: > > > > 1. The patch has been fully tested in all configurations > > The problem has been known long enough that there should have been > enough time. How do you think you know: 1. What needs to be tested, 2. How long it should take, 3. What other work it must be balanced against? > > > 2. The patch does not have some theoretical drawback known > > through methods other than testing > > Whatever happened to DEC quality? Huh? If DEC had known about an incompatibility, do you think they'd have shipped it anyway? > > 3. The patch is not tied up with some other patches to the > > same image(s) with the above two problems > > Without further evidence, that seems unlikely. Again, how do you think you know this? Have you been gathering compatibility information about all the released (and unreleased) patches and images? > > 4. The patch maintainer has not given up on comp.os.vms due > > to all the vitriol ? > > Actually, without the discussion here the patch might never see the > light of day. Actually, VMS engineering has done all the coding, testing, kitting, re-testing, and documenting. The patch is ready and waiting to post. Then HP decided not to post it, JUST TO FORCE YOU TO MIGRATE TO HP-UX!!!!!! But now a few few zany posts here in c.o.v. will compel Mark Hurd to order VMS to release this patch!!!! Yay!!! Get real. Disclaimer: parts of this post are pure sarcasm. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 2007 08:32:27 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > In article <3QGx2DOob4Cv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > >> > Surely the patch maintainer is reading this thread and the patch will be >> > up within 24 hours? >> >> What is the basis for your confidence that: >> >> 1. The patch has been fully tested in all configurations > > The problem has been known long enough that there should have been > enough time. How do you know it is the highest priority for those resources ? Some of us could hardly care less. >> 2. The patch does not have some theoretical drawback known >> through methods other than testing > > Whatever happened to DEC quality? I am very familiar with internal DEC quality techniques, and they certainly include being reticent to release software before it is ready. >> 3. The patch is not tied up with some other patches to the >> same image(s) with the above two problems > > Without further evidence, that seems unlikely. Take a look at some of the recent VMS patches that do get released - they include a whole lot of different changes in a single patch kit. >> 4. The patch maintainer has not given up on comp.os.vms due >> to all the vitriol ? > > Actually, without the discussion here the patch might never see the > light of day. I am not concerned about discussion of specific issue, I am talking about the general anti-VMS-development attitude in many posts. Some VMS development folks are reading these posts, but many fewer than would be if people stayed focused and on-topic. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:02:09 -0400 From: "Jeff Goodwin" Subject: Re: MONITOR with different architectures Message-ID: <46d81f66$0$6388$4c368faf@roadrunner.com> "Robert Deininger" wrote in message news:rdeininger-127F66.09304031082007@032-478-847.area7.spcsdns.net... > In article , > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to > reply) wrote: > >> In article <3QGx2DOob4Cv@eisner.encompasserve.org>, >> Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >> ...snip... >> > 2. The patch does not have some theoretical drawback known >> > through methods other than testing >> >> Whatever happened to DEC quality? > > Huh? If DEC had known about an incompatibility, do you think they'd > have shipped it anyway? > ...snip... > > Disclaimer: parts of this post are pure sarcasm. Sarcasm aside :), HP did know about the remote MONITOR incompatibility and properly documented it in section 4.1.3 of the V8.3 Release Notes. -Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:50:43 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Message-ID: <494f0$46d838d9$cef8887a$13824@TEKSAVVY.COM> If you ask IT people, they will know that VMS is a good quality operating system, that it has good documentation and great clustering capabilities. BUT: They will say they can't get VMS because it doesn't run their apps, it doesn't run on viable industry standard platform, and because there is no commitiment to VMS from the vendor. Porting VMS to the 8086 will solve the server image issue as well as the commitment issue. It won't magically bring all apps to VMS. But without this port, it ensures that VMS will not get new apps and continue to reduce the number of apps it has left. As long as HP makes public statements about just wanting to be able to convert the VMS installed based to HP-UX customers, it will send a strong signal that HP has no interest in growing VMS and as a result, ISVs will stay away from it and in doing so, will help HP downsize VMS out of existance. And whenever some HP employee supports their employer's bid to downsize VMS out of existance, it makes those customers loyal to VMS feel even more alone because they don't even see VMS staff trying to fight for VMS's success/survival within HP. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:27:35 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes: >Hi: >I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message >if the day is the third sunday in the month. >Can you help me ? >Thank you. A more challenging version of this is, instead of DCL running every day checking if today's date is the third Sunday, is some DCL that sets a DCL symbol to the date of the (next) third Sunday, so that one can do a $ SUBMIT/AFTER='DATE and have the submitted code run _only_ on the third Sunday. A related puzzle I saw a long time ago was DCL that submits a job to run on the second to last day of the month, again, without running and checking every day. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:01:30 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0058075E85257348_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I made an inference some time back in this thread that his procedure ran every day, but only wanted to do this section on the third Sunday of the month. Hence it checks every day, but does other stuff and this only once a month. Not that everything written about single submits is not helpful.... moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 08/31/2007 11:27:35 AM: > apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes: > > >Hi: > >I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message > >if the day is the third sunday in the month. > >Can you help me ? > >Thank you. > > A more challenging version of this is, instead of DCL running every day > checking if today's date is the third Sunday, is some DCL that sets > a DCL symbol to the date of the (next) third Sunday, so that one can do a > $ SUBMIT/AFTER='DATE and have the submitted code run _only_ on the third > Sunday. > > A related puzzle I saw a long time ago was DCL that submits a job to > run on the second to last day of the month, again, without running and > checking every day. --=_alternative 0058075E85257348_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

I made an inference some time back in this thread that his procedure ran every day, but only wanted

to do this section on the third Sunday of the month.  Hence it checks every day, but does other stuff
and this only once a month.

Not that everything written about single submits is not helpful....

moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote on 08/31/2007 11:27:35 AM:

> apogeusistemas@gmail.com writes:
>
> >Hi:
> >I=B4m looking for a command procedure to send a operator=B4s message
> >if the day is the third sunday in the month.
> >Can you help me ?
> >Thank you.
>
> A more challenging version of this is, instead of DCL running every day
> checking if today's date is the third Sunday, is some DCL that sets
> a DCL symbol to the date of the (next) third Sunday, so that one can do a
> $ SUBMIT/AFTER='DATE and have the submitted code run _only_ on the third
> Sunday.
>
> A related puzzle I saw a long time ago was DCL that submits a job to
> run on the second to last day of the month, again, without running and
> checking every day.
--=_alternative 0058075E85257348_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:11:43 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188576703.586560.262060@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> On Aug 30, 7:38 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <1188437058.314136.41...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>, apogeusiste...@gmail.com writes: > > > >I made this change: > > >$ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,4, F$TIME())'" > >$ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") > >$ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") > >$ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. 14) .and. (day .lt. > >22) .and. (hour .eq. "12:0")) then goto dispara > > >and I=B4ll receive only 2 alerts (maybe only 1) > > You can avoid the two date compares with this BTW: > > ((day .gt. 14) .and. (day .lt.22)) == ((day-1)/7 .eq. 2) > If day .le. 14 would the second compare execute or not? I wonder which (compares or math) would execute fastest and/or most efficiently (not that a milli- or microsecond here or there should really matter.) I don't have a timer with fine enough granularity at hand & don't feel like writing one today. Displaying f$time() isn't fine enough to give consistent results. Just curious and wondered if someone knows. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:15:49 -0000 From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Re: Third sunday in the month Message-ID: <1188576949.281259.82730@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On 31 ago, 13:11, Doug Phillips wrote: > On Aug 30, 7:38 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > > > > > > In article <1188437058.314136.41...@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>, apogeusiste...@gmail.com writes: > > > >I made this change: > > > >$ hour=3D"''F$EXTRACT(12,4, F$TIME())'" > > >$ day=3DF$CVTIME(,,"day") > > >$ week=3DF$CVTIME(,,"weekday") > > >$ if ((week .eqs. "Sunday") .and. (day .gt. 14) .and. (day .lt. > > >22) .and. (hour .eq. "12:0")) then goto dispara > > > >and I=B4ll receive only 2 alerts (maybe only 1) > > > You can avoid the two date compares with this BTW: > > > ((day .gt. 14) .and. (day .lt.22)) == ((day-1)/7 .eq. 2) > > If day .le. 14 would the second compare execute or not? > > I wonder which (compares or math) would execute fastest and/or most > efficiently (not that a milli- or microsecond here or there should > really matter.) I don't have a timer with fine enough granularity at > hand & don't feel like writing one today. Displaying f$time() isn't > fine enough to give consistent results. > > Just curious and wondered if someone knows.- Ocultar texto entre aspas - > > - Mostrar texto entre aspas - Thanks to all. Can you recomend any book or web site where find time algorithms ? Every time I need stuff like this. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 2007 08:58:24 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <46d7d830$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <39033$46d76794$cef8887a$22000@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: >I was doing email before Windows was born. Yup. I started doing email in March 1983, with VMS Great statement, folks. Many are too long for a license plate. And many need to word "VMS" (or "OpenVMS") to make perfect sense (but then, they are even longer)... Keep shouting -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:25:47 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <1188573947.612352.59660@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 30, 9:30 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > Sue wrote: > > > Dear Newsgroup, > > > If you remember we have done VMS License plates over the years. The > > last one we did had "When downtime is NOT an option" > > > I was thinking about doing them again for our 30th. Let me know what > > you think. > > > Warm Regards, > > Sue > > VMS: Kevin Mitnick's Waterloo > > ...and if he takes it as a challenge, we'll be able to use this headline > afterward: > > VMS BEATS RECIDIVIST HACKER AGAIN > > How 'bout: > VMS: A Hacker's Worst Nightmare > > Was VMS the only o.s. ever banned from the DEFCON Hacker's convention? If so: > VMS: Only OS ever banned from DEFCON > > VMS: Even Survived 21st Century Corporate America > > The VMS Muchachos: > "We don't need no stinkin' EULA!" > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systemshttp://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Pagehttp://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ "Experience Extended Uptimes with VMS" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:03:15 -0400 From: "Hank Vander Waal" Subject: RE: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <6984520@MVB.SAIC.COM> -----Original Message----- From: Rich Jordan [mailto:jordan@ccs4vms.com] Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:26 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Re: VMS License Plates On Aug 30, 9:30 pm, David J Dachtera wrote: > Sue wrote: > > > Dear Newsgroup, > > > If you remember we have done VMS License plates over the years. The > > last one we did had "When downtime is NOT an option" > > > I was thinking about doing them again for our 30th. Let me know what > > you think. > > > Warm Regards, > > Sue > > VMS: Kevin Mitnick's Waterloo > > ...and if he takes it as a challenge, we'll be able to use this headline > afterward: > > VMS BEATS RECIDIVIST HACKER AGAIN > > How 'bout: > VMS: A Hacker's Worst Nightmare > > Was VMS the only o.s. ever banned from the DEFCON Hacker's convention? If so: > VMS: Only OS ever banned from DEFCON > > VMS: Even Survived 21st Century Corporate America > > The VMS Muchachos: > "We don't need no stinkin' EULA!" "Experience Extended Uptimes with VMS" VMS - no hack, no patch, no problem! VMS - many maintained by a few. VMS - never so many maintained by so few VMS - Virtually Maintains Self! ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 2007 11:20:02 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: RE: VMS License Plates Message-ID: Of course there are some of us who will display a license plate (or other trinket) that says VMS but not one that says OpenVMS. I doubt there are any of the reverse persuasion. I suppose that means a chance to lower the production cost by adding three letters. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:47:07 -0000 From: bob.birch@gmail.com Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <1188578827.512201.29300@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Aug 31, 12:20 pm, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > Of course there are some of us who will display a license plate > (or other trinket) that says VMS but not one that says OpenVMS. > > I doubt there are any of the reverse persuasion. > > I suppose that means a chance to lower the production cost by adding > three letters. VMS Vaporize Microsoft S_ _ _ VMS Veto Microsoft Software VMS Voids Microsoft S_ _ _ VMS Vicious Microsoft Slayer VMS Virgin Microsoft Successor VMS Vault Microsoft S_ _ _ ------------------------------ Date: 31 Aug 2007 16:59:03 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <5jqvmnFtrjmU2@mid.individual.net> In article <39033$46d76794$cef8887a$22000@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > I was doing email before Windows was born. Just out of curiosity, when did VMS first have the ability to send Email between different machines? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 13:12:41 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <2b584$46d84c0a$cef8887a$14777@TEKSAVVY.COM> VMS, the tool you can rely on. VMS, the tool you can depend on. VMS, you can depend on it. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.478 ************************