INFO-VAX Sat, 20 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 573 Contents: ACMS - Where to from here? (Was: Re: Rare job posting) Re: ACMS - Where to from here? (Was: Re: Rare job posting) Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Re: Mozilla default plugin configuration Re: Mozilla default plugin configuration Re: Mozilla default plugin configuration RE: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting Re: Rare job posting U.S. networks being hacked right and left! Re: Which delete statement is faster? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 11:45:26 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: ACMS - Where to from here? (Was: Re: Rare job posting) Message-ID: Hi Arne, Still say it looks like Lego (Leg Godt?) or maybe "Blockominum" in the States :-) Last I heard (albeit many moons ago) they were big VMS users. Cheers Richard Maher PS. Whoever it is, I have to admire them for continuing to support and enhance their company's IT backbone while many of the their supplier's representatives treat them as an anachronistic joke. What are their options going forward? ACMSxp - Doh! Web Connector (Where you talk to another crappy HTTP server and deliberately avoid any of the TP Monitor benefits?) Or just tell them to "Wrapper" their legacy 3GL code and tasks in a pretty-ugly Java/SOAP ribbon? Hold the phone! Here's a thought: - Why not take your TDFs and separate out your COBOL (or other 3GL code) into a shareable image that Tier3 will call directly with your client messages/parameters, whether they originate from a browser-based application on the Web, or a native Java/C++ application, or a VMS dumb terminal. The only additional code required would be a Message-Filter/Packer that would convert the free-flow, boundless, data from the Tier3 pipe and populate the ACMS Workspaces that you're used to. (ACMS$T_USERNAME et al could still be made available) Sound like a plan? A way of looking after loyal customers? Giving them the opportunity to continue with VMS as their reliable and trusted server workhorse while at the same time providing them with high-quality, modern, web-facing, and industry-standard front-ends? (And development tools) When the customers get used to the Tier3 operating environment they will realize that they no longer need to be shackled by any ridiculous "Workspace-Size" restrictions, and that server affinity is now completely under their control! No more privilege requirements for server processes and yet Client-Impersonation is available at the flick of a switch! No [S]TDL, No ADU, No UDU, and *NO CDD*! No ADFs, TDFs and *NO IFDbloodyL*! But your System Managers still get the Application-Based tuning options for Min Servers, Max Servers, Idle Timeout and so on. But what about the loss of ACMS and DECForms support license revenue? What's in it for the IMM team? Nah, we at VMS Management would much rather lose those VMS customers all together and cut of out noses rather than suffer that indignity! "We have our own ways of [not]doing things here, thanks very much!" - Full steam ahead! "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:47193288$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > Dr. Dweeb wrote: > > Arne Vajhøj wrote: > >> But it is a long time since I have seen ACMS and > >> DECForms wanted in Denmark. > > > Where did you see that* > > http://jobeasy.comon.dk/index.php/job/show/id=113450 > > Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:06:51 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: ACMS - Where to from here? (Was: Re: Rare job posting) Message-ID: <47197ed8$0$90276$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard Maher wrote: > Still say it looks like Lego (Leg Godt?) or maybe "Blockominum" in the > States :-) > > Last I heard (albeit many moons ago) they were big VMS users. Lego was indeed a good VMS customer. I don't know if there are any VMS systems left at Lego. I doubt it. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:43:01 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS Message-ID: <956fa$4718fab8$cef8887a$9838@TEKSAVVY.COM> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > Is the ODS5 part a problem for you? Isn't ODS5 a prerequisite for anything Java on VMS ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:43:54 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: ANN: MibbleBrowser for OpenVMS Message-ID: <47194135$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> JF Mezei wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >> Is the ODS5 part a problem for you? > > Isn't ODS5 a prerequisite for anything Java on VMS ? Not for HelloWorld. But for most anything else. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:56:30 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: [snip] > >> http://www.venganza.org/ > > Didn't get this one. You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is punishing us for getting rid of pirates! http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2007 18:12:04 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <5nsabkFjsr51U1@mid.individual.net> In article , Ron Johnson writes: > On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > [snip] >> >>> http://www.venganza.org/ >> >> Didn't get this one. > > You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying > Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is > punishing us for getting rid of pirates! > > http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif Sorry, never heard of it. And somehow, I don;t think I missed much. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:26:32 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: On 10/19/07 13:12, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > Ron Johnson writes: >> On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> [snip] >>>> http://www.venganza.org/ >>> Didn't get this one. >> You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying >> Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is >> punishing us for getting rid of pirates! >> >> http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif > > Sorry, never heard of it. And somehow, I don;t think I missed much. :-) His Noodly Appendage is going to strike you down for such heresy!!! -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:33:54 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <59381$4718f897$cef8887a$9458@TEKSAVVY.COM> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 > Boob, I realise that your favourite source of reliable information is not longer in print, (this is really sad because waiting at supermarket checkouts is now so much more boring). article at: http://www.reuters.com/article/industryNews/idUSN7O23037320070724 However, you should know that it is still being published on-line at: http://www.weeklyworldnews.com with all the regular stories that you need to know. So you don't need to wander aimlessly in other news outlets since your primary, reliable one is still available. So don't despair. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:41:04 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <7827c$4718fa44$cef8887a$9838@TEKSAVVY.COM> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 > Oh, for those not familiar with the Weekly World News: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_World_News This has a comprehensive story on the newpaper's articles and covered subjects. Unfortunatly, they don't have one of the newspaper's most popular headlines from the 1980s "Teenage mother gives birth to black sheep" which was made into t-shirts ;-) That newspaper had the most amazing photographers who always happened to be in the right spot at the right time to get those amazing pictures. And rememeber that in its early days, photoshop didn't exist, so those pictures all had to be true and not doctored in any way shape or form :-) ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2007 18:52:28 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <5nscncFjo40mU1@mid.individual.net> In article <7827c$4718fa44$cef8887a$9838@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei writes: > ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: >> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58215 >> > Oh, for those not familiar with the Weekly World News: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_World_News > > This has a comprehensive story on the newpaper's articles and covered > subjects. Unfortunatly, they don't have one of the newspaper's most > popular headlines from the 1980s "Teenage mother gives birth to black > sheep" which was made into t-shirts ;-) > > That newspaper had the most amazing photographers who always happened to > be in the right spot at the right time to get those amazing pictures. > And rememeber that in its early days, photoshop didn't exist, so those > pictures all had to be true and not doctored in any way shape or form :-) My favorite was the pictures of heaven taken by the HST. And I think that was even before they fixed the mirror. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:34:19 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <1192826059.512918.218480@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com> On Oct 19, 1:12 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > Ron Johnson writes: > > > On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > [snip] > > >>>http://www.venganza.org/ > > >> Didn't get this one. > > > You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying > > Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is > > punishing us for getting rid of pirates! > > >http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif > > Sorry, never heard of it. And somehow, I don;t think I missed much. :-) > Well, I guess that means your c.o.v post from June 2007 (link below) either appeared by supernatural means, was spoofed, was forgotten, or you don't read the messages to which you reply: shortened preview link: The great god Google remembers all. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:47:06 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: On 10/19/07 15:34, Doug Phillips wrote: > On Oct 19, 1:12 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> In article , >> Ron Johnson writes: >> >>> On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> [snip] >>>>> http://www.venganza.org/ >>>> Didn't get this one. >>> You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying >>> Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is >>> punishing us for getting rid of pirates! >>> http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif >> Sorry, never heard of it. And somehow, I don;t think I missed much. :-) >> > > Well, I guess that means your c.o.v post from June 2007 (link below) > either appeared by supernatural means, was spoofed, was forgotten, or > you don't read the messages to which you reply: > > dmode=source> > > shortened preview link: > > > The great god Google remembers all. Google is a false deity! I call his noodly vengance down upon your pagan head! -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:18:04 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <1192828684.691361.297290@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Oct 19, 3:47 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/19/07 15:34, Doug Phillips wrote: > > > > > On Oct 19, 1:12 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> In article , > >> Ron Johnson writes: > > >>> On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >>> [snip] > >>>>>http://www.venganza.org/ > >>>> Didn't get this one. > >>> You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying > >>> Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is > >>> punishing us for getting rid of pirates! > >>>http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif > >> Sorry, never heard of it. And somehow, I don;t think I missed much. :-) > > > Well, I guess that means your c.o.v post from June 2007 (link below) > > either appeared by supernatural means, was spoofed, was forgotten, or > > you don't read the messages to which you reply: > > > > dmode=source> > > > shortened preview link: > > > > > The great god Google remembers all. > > Google is a false deity! I call his noodly vengance down upon your > pagan head! > Ahh, but the god Google was created by the FSM in his own image to help and guide us in our quest for the truth. If you pray to the god Google, you'll know that mine was the first c.o.v mention of the FSM, post quoted below: ### On Mar 15, 11:47 am, "Doug Phillips" wrote: > On Mar 14, 6:49 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > > > In article <1173826199.255687.49...@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, b...@instantwhip.com writes: > > > >so you were around when this asteroid hit? > > > >what happened to the dinosaurs is a world flood hit ... > > > >ever hear of Noah and the ark? > > > Ah so you don't believe in the sciences of geology, paleontology and astronomy. > > You must also have problems with radio-active decay (since you obviously cannot > > trust radiocarbon or similar forms of dating). Tree-rings and ice-core samples > > must present similar problems if you believe in Bishop Usher's date for > > creation ( not to mention genetic clocks). > > As a true believer and member in good hiding of the Unified Church of > the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I find those statements to be not silly. > > Arrgh. ### -- Today is 19-Oct-2007: Only 335 more days 'til the next "International Talk Like a Pirate Day." Plan ahead! Arrgh and avast, me hardys. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:50:19 -0500 From: CJT Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <471934AB.2050801@prodigy.net> Bush and his buddies have bought themselves a special place in Hell. -- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:59:02 +1000 From: Jim Duff Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <471944c6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > [url snipped] > *plonk* ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 2007 00:29:19 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <5nt0evFjq60kU2@mid.individual.net> In article <1192826059.512918.218480@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: > On Oct 19, 1:12 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> In article , >> Ron Johnson writes: >> >> > On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> > [snip] >> >> >>>http://www.venganza.org/ >> >> >> Didn't get this one. >> >> > You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying >> > Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is >> > punishing us for getting rid of pirates! >> >> >http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif >> >> Sorry, never heard of it. And somehow, I don;t think I missed much. :-) >> > > Well, I guess that means your c.o.v post from June 2007 (link below) > either appeared by supernatural means, was spoofed, was forgotten, or > you don't read the messages to which you reply: > > dmode=source> > > shortened preview link: > > > The great god Google remembers all. OK, I'll admit haveng heard the term, but I really have no idea what it is any more than kibology. I guess I never got into all the finer points of geekdom. Too busy earning a living I guess. And while we are confessing our sins, While I enjoyed the original Monty Python series I have never seen, nor had a desire to see, any of the movies. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 2007 00:33:54 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <5nt0niFjq60kU3@mid.individual.net> In article <1192826059.512918.218480@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: > On Oct 19, 1:12 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> In article , >> Ron Johnson writes: >> >> > On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> > [snip] >> >> >>>http://www.venganza.org/ >> >> >> Didn't get this one. >> >> > You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying >> > Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is >> > punishing us for getting rid of pirates! >> >> >http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif >> >> Sorry, never heard of it. And somehow, I don;t think I missed much. :-) >> > > Well, I guess that means your c.o.v post from June 2007 (link below) > either appeared by supernatural means, was spoofed, was forgotten, or > you don't read the messages to which you reply: > > dmode=source> > > shortened preview link: > > > The great god Google remembers all. Should have looked before my last post, but I just did, I don't see where I said anything about noodles or pirates or anything similar. My comment was about nativity scenes. What am I missing? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 20 Oct 2007 00:35:43 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: <5nt0qvFjq60kU4@mid.individual.net> In article <1192828684.691361.297290@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: > On Oct 19, 3:47 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 10/19/07 15:34, Doug Phillips wrote: >> >> >> >> > On Oct 19, 1:12 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> >> In article , >> >> Ron Johnson writes: >> >> >>> On 10/19/07 11:35, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>> [snip] >> >>>>>http://www.venganza.org/ >> >>>> Didn't get this one. >> >>> You've never heard of Pastafarianism or the Church of the Flying >> >>> Spaghetti Monster???? It's the only valid proof that the FSM is >> >>> punishing us for getting rid of pirates! >> >>>http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif >> >> Sorry, never heard of it. And somehow, I don;t think I missed much. :-) >> >> > Well, I guess that means your c.o.v post from June 2007 (link below) >> > either appeared by supernatural means, was spoofed, was forgotten, or >> > you don't read the messages to which you reply: >> >> > > > dmode=source> >> >> > shortened preview link: >> > >> >> > The great god Google remembers all. >> >> Google is a false deity! I call his noodly vengance down upon your >> pagan head! >> > > Ahh, but the god Google was created by the FSM in his own image to > help and guide us in our quest for the truth. If you pray to the god > Google, you'll know that mine was the first c.o.v mention of the FSM, > post quoted below: > > ### > On Mar 15, 11:47 am, "Doug Phillips" wrote: >> On Mar 14, 6:49 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >> > In article <1173826199.255687.49...@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, b...@instantwhip.com writes: >> >> > >so you were around when this asteroid hit? >> >> > >what happened to the dinosaurs is a world flood hit ... >> >> > >ever hear of Noah and the ark? >> >> > Ah so you don't believe in the sciences of geology, paleontology and astronomy. >> > You must also have problems with radio-active decay (since you obviously cannot >> > trust radiocarbon or similar forms of dating). Tree-rings and ice-core samples >> > must present similar problems if you believe in Bishop Usher's date for >> > creation ( not to mention genetic clocks). >> >> As a true believer and member in good hiding of the Unified Church of >> the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I find those statements to be not silly. >> >> Arrgh. > ### > > > -- > Today is 19-Oct-2007: Only 335 more days 'til the next "International > Talk Like a Pirate Day." Plan ahead! > > Arrgh and avast, me hardys. > You guys need to get out more. And they tell me I don't have a life!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:41:54 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: On 10/19/07 19:29, Bill Gunshannon wrote: [snip] > > OK, I'll admit haveng heard the term, but I really have no idea what > it is any more than kibology. I guess I never got into all the finer > points of geekdom. Too busy earning a living I guess. It's more than possible to do both. > And while we are confessing our sins, While I enjoyed the original > Monty Python series I have never seen, nor had a desire to see, any > of the movies. Maybe I'm just hard of hearing -- or maybe just honest -- but I found very little of the Flying Circus to be funny. The accents were too strong, and the topics very often understandable only to a Brit (or Western European) who was around in the War Years. From the laughter, though, I'm sure that Brits found it uproariously funny - or they had a good laugh track. OTOH... /SFTHG/ & /LoB/ were *great* movies, and anyone who hasn't seen them should not be allowed to work in the tech field. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:43:17 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Bush, Rice actions may bring judgment of God on U.S. Message-ID: On 10/19/07 17:50, CJT wrote: > Bush and his buddies have bought themselves a special place in Hell. Ummm, ok. Except there is no h-e-double hockey sticks. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:15:40 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Message-ID: <1192821340.449569.211010@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com> First off, sorry, no, the company is not willing to pack or ship; the parts are large, plasticy, and relatively fragile. Please don't ask. We rackmounted our porting-class pedestal RX2620. The pedestal parts are going to get pitched unless someone who has a use for them and can do a weekday pickup in Arlington Heights, ill-annoy (yeah its spelled wrong but more truthful that way). These are the parts removed to install the rack kit, including the front fascia panel, scuptured side panels, and metal base. They will be dumped in November if nobody nearby needs them. Send me an email; my account is not obfuscated. Rich ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:36:05 -0400 From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Message-ID: In article <1192821340.449569.211010@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Rich Jordan wrote: > First off, sorry, no, the company is not willing to pack or ship; the > parts are large, plasticy, and relatively fragile. Please don't ask. > > We rackmounted our porting-class pedestal RX2620. The pedestal parts > are going to get pitched unless someone who has a use for them and can > do a weekday pickup in Arlington Heights, ill-annoy (yeah its spelled > wrong but more truthful that way). These are the parts removed to > install the rack kit, including the front fascia panel, scuptured side > panels, and metal base. They will be dumped in November if nobody > nearby needs them. > > Send me an email; my account is not obfuscated. The same parts also work on rx2600, by the way. (The color scheme might not be the same.) rx2660 has a completely different chassis; these parts won't fit that system. -- Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:59:56 -0000 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Message-ID: <1192827596.147428.219890@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Oct 19, 3:36 pm, Robert Deininger wrote: > In article <1192821340.449569.211...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > Rich Jordan wrote: > > > First off, sorry, no, the company is not willing to pack or ship; the > > parts are large, plasticy, and relatively fragile. Please don't ask. > > > We rackmounted our porting-class pedestal RX2620. The pedestal parts > > are going to get pitched unless someone who has a use for them and can > > do a weekday pickup in Arlington Heights, ill-annoy (yeah its spelled > > wrong but more truthful that way). These are the parts removed to > > install the rack kit, including the front fascia panel, scuptured side > > panels, and metal base. They will be dumped in November if nobody > > nearby needs them. > > > Send me an email; my account is not obfuscated. > > The same parts also work on rx2600, by the way. (The color scheme might > not be the same.) > > rx2660 has a completely different chassis; these parts won't fit that > system. > > -- Robert We had a 2660 rackmount come through to be configured; yep its totally different. The 2660 also has the new laptop size removable drives instead of those non-universal proprietary ring-pulls the 2620 came with (I wish they'd been the universal type instead). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:01:51 +0000 (UTC) From: Rick Jones Subject: Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Message-ID: Rich Jordan wrote: > We had a 2660 rackmount come through to be configured; yep its totally > different. The 2660 also has the new laptop size removable drives > instead of those non-universal proprietary ring-pulls the 2620 came > with (I wish they'd been the universal type instead). FWIW, they matched what was used on some of the HP external disc enclosures at the time the rx2600 first shipped. Being a networking guy I guess it is ok for me to ask - is there such a thing as a "universal" type hotplug disc tray? rick jones -- denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth... where do you want to be today? these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :) feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:15:46 -0000 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Message-ID: <1192832146.980931.232050@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 19, 5:01 pm, Rick Jones wrote: > Rich Jordan wrote: > > We had a 2660 rackmount come through to be configured; yep its totally > > different. The 2660 also has the new laptop size removable drives > > instead of those non-universal proprietary ring-pulls the 2620 came > > with (I wish they'd been the universal type instead). > > FWIW, they matched what was used on some of the HP external disc > enclosures at the time the rx2600 first shipped. > > Being a networking guy I guess it is ok for me to ask - is there such > a thing as a "universal" type hotplug disc tray? > > rick jones > -- > denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth... > where do you want to be today? > these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :) > feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... I probably should have said "exceptionally proprietary" for the ring- pulls since the universals were proprietary also, just so darn common as to make them easily and cheaply available. As to universal trays? I'd do the same thing I used to do with the SBBs; find the small cap ones that used SCA drives, open them up and pitch the little one and drop in a big one. My "9.1GB" Ultra SBBs now have Seagate 50GB drives in them, no muss, no fuss. If the Universals are all SCA on the inside (SCA2? 68 pin? Don't have one out and handy now) then it should be easy and cheap to buy old slow small ones and drop newer bigger drives in them. Rich ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:44:58 -0400 From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: HP RX2620 pedestal kit parts available, NW chicago suburbs Message-ID: In article , Rick Jones wrote: > Rich Jordan wrote: > > We had a 2660 rackmount come through to be configured; yep its totally > > different. The 2660 also has the new laptop size removable drives > > instead of those non-universal proprietary ring-pulls the 2620 came > > with (I wish they'd been the universal type instead). > > FWIW, they matched what was used on some of the HP external disc > enclosures at the time the rx2600 first shipped. > > Being a networking guy I guess it is ok for me to ask - is there such > a thing as a "universal" type hotplug disc tray? > > rick jones Older Integrity servers used HP's "standard" SCSI disk carrier. The same carrier is/was also used in several external disk enclosures. These are for 3.5 inch drives. This enclosure dates to before the Compaq/HP merger. There's at least one other 3.5 inch carrier at HP. It's used in some external enclosures, but I don't think in any Integrity systems. I think it has Compaq/Storageworks heritage. All of these 3.5 inch components will tend to fade away in coming years. Newer Integrity servers, including rx2660, rx3600, and rx6600, use HP's "standard" SAS/SATA disk carrier. There are also external enclosures that use the same carrier. These are 2.5 inch drives. I think this 2.5 inch carrier is pretty universal in all the HP divisions now - Proliant, Storageworks, and Integrity. AFAIK, all of these disk carriers are propriatary to HP. -- Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:56:32 -0600 From: Mark Berryman Subject: Re: Mozilla default plugin configuration Message-ID: <4718b791$1@mvb.saic.com> JF Mezei wrote: > Some time ago, it was suggested that I remove the flash plug in for > Mozilla (VMS) since "The Inquirer"'s use of flash causes mozilla to crash. > > So I followed that suggestion, but now, 90% of web pages I visit cause > the "default plug in" dialog box to pop up, asking me to download a > plug-in. (which of course I know isn't available for VMS). > > Is there a way to configure Mozilla so that the default plug-in does not > prompt to try to attempt to doanload a plug it ? > > If not, is there some dummy plug-in that can be installed to pretend to > be the Flash Plug In without doing anything with the content, which > would please remote web sites (who would think I have Flash 9 installed) > and Mozilla who woudln't complain ? Simply delete the LIBNULLPLUGIN.SO file from the plugins directory. That is the plugin that pops up the "do you want to download" window. Mark Berryman ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:25:51 -0500 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Mozilla default plugin configuration Message-ID: Mark Berryman wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > >> Some time ago, it was suggested that I remove the flash plug in for >> Mozilla (VMS) since "The Inquirer"'s use of flash causes mozilla to >> crash. >> >> So I followed that suggestion, but now, 90% of web pages I visit cause >> the "default plug in" dialog box to pop up, asking me to download a >> plug-in. (which of course I know isn't available for VMS). >> >> Is there a way to configure Mozilla so that the default plug-in does >> not prompt to try to attempt to doanload a plug it ? >> >> If not, is there some dummy plug-in that can be installed to pretend >> to be the Flash Plug In without doing anything with the content, which >> would please remote web sites (who would think I have Flash 9 >> installed) and Mozilla who woudln't complain ? > > > Simply delete the LIBNULLPLUGIN.SO file from the plugins directory. That > is the plugin that pops up the "do you want to download" window. Thought I posted this earlier but it hasn't come through. You should just be able to uncheck the plug-in finder service checkbox under Helper Applications. I have not deleted the null plugin library and I do not get the plug-in download dialogue. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:22:42 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Mozilla default plugin configuration Message-ID: Mark Berryman wrote: > Simply delete the LIBNULLPLUGIN.SO file from the plugins directory. > That is the plugin that pops up the "do you want to download" window. Many thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:46:29 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Rare job posting Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On > Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > Sent: October 19, 2007 8:24 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Rare job posting > > In article <47186439$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, > "Dr. Dweeb" writes: > > Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >> Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > >>> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > >>>> I just saw a job posting in Denmark. > >>>> > >>>> Required skills: VMS, Cobol, ACMS, DECForms, VAX and Alpha. > >>>> > >>>> Long time since I last saw one of those. > >>> > >>> In sweden I've seen 1 or 2 jobs postings (culsulting) > >>> each months since this summer. Not in the public > >>> job postings but on "consulting brookers" web sites. > >>> > >>> Mainly full time, 6-12 months jobs. > >> > >> I think this was similar. > >> > >> But it is a long time since I have seen ACMS and > >> DECForms wanted in Denmark. > >> > > > > Where did you see that* > > > > I guess the big question really is are these long term support > jobs or conversions? Why do I ask? About a year ago a major > beltway bandit was advertising for Fortran Programmers (damn, > why didn't I apply!!) Apparently the search went badly. Juat > about a month ago they were looking for Java Programmers with > a working knowledge of Fortran to do a conversion. The location > was the same. Just because someone wants people with legacy > experience doesn't mean long term survival for the legacy system. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three > wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Same goes both ways .. Large Cust I was at was looking for Solaris skills t= o assist with legacy Solaris to Linux migrations. Btw, I know you know this, but every platform has legacy versions. Microsof= t refers to W2K as legacy, Sun refers to Solaris 8 as legacy etc. That certainly doe= s not mean Solaris 10 is legacy or W2K3 is legacy. Regards, Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:41:17 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <47193288$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> But it is a long time since I have seen ACMS and >> DECForms wanted in Denmark. > Where did you see that* http://jobeasy.comon.dk/index.php/job/show/id=113450 Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:42:31 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <471932d2$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > I guess the big question really is are these long term support > jobs or conversions? It was a contract job not a permanent job. But it did not mention anything about conversion to anything. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:43:42 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <4719331a$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Tom Linden wrote: > On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:08:15 -0700, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Denmark is a much smaller country than UK and the financial >> sector in Denmark has always been very blue. > > That is because Maersk Mckinney Moeller was a roommate of Tom Watson Jr. > at Yale. The blue I was talking about is IBM blue. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:46:13 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <471933b1$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Maersk Oil had VMS in the old days though for some stuff. > > Gone now I suspect I am pretty sure that is is long gone. I don't even think they went for Alpha. They had a VAX 9000 when that was new. But my impression is that in general 9000's went away pretty quickly while the 6000's went humming along for a decade longer. Arne ------------------------------ Date: 19 Oct 2007 22:51:44 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <5nsqo0Fjp7fgU1@mid.individual.net> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On >> Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> Sent: October 19, 2007 8:24 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Rare job posting >> >> In article <47186439$0$7604$157c6196@dreader2.cybercity.dk>, >> "Dr. Dweeb" writes: >> > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> >> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> >>> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> >>>> I just saw a job posting in Denmark. >> >>>> >> >>>> Required skills: VMS, Cobol, ACMS, DECForms, VAX and Alpha. >> >>>> >> >>>> Long time since I last saw one of those. >> >>> >> >>> In sweden I've seen 1 or 2 jobs postings (culsulting) >> >>> each months since this summer. Not in the public >> >>> job postings but on "consulting brookers" web sites. >> >>> >> >>> Mainly full time, 6-12 months jobs. >> >> >> >> I think this was similar. >> >> >> >> But it is a long time since I have seen ACMS and >> >> DECForms wanted in Denmark. >> >> >> > >> > Where did you see that* >> > >> >> I guess the big question really is are these long term support >> jobs or conversions? Why do I ask? About a year ago a major >> beltway bandit was advertising for Fortran Programmers (damn, >> why didn't I apply!!) Apparently the search went badly. Juat >> about a month ago they were looking for Java Programmers with >> a working knowledge of Fortran to do a conversion. The location >> was the same. Just because someone wants people with legacy >> experience doesn't mean long term survival for the legacy system. >> >> bill >> >> -- >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three >> wolves >> bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >> University of Scranton | >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > Same goes both ways .. Large Cust I was at was looking for Solaris skills to assist with > legacy Solaris to Linux migrations. Ummm..... How is that "both ways"? If it was Solaris to VMS I could see you dancing in the street, but Solaris to Linux? VMS still looses. > Btw, I know you know this, but every platform has legacy versions. Microsoft refers > to W2K as legacy, Sun refers to Solaris 8 as legacy etc. That certainly does not mean > Solaris 10 is legacy or W2K3 is legacy. I know you know this, but while old versions of Windows and Solaris are considered "legacy", most of the IT world considers all versions of VMS as legacy. Ask any computer science department. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:02:25 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <4719539c$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <4719331a$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, > =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >> Tom Linden wrote: >>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:08:15 -0700, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> Denmark is a much smaller country than UK and the financial >>>> sector in Denmark has always been very blue. >>> That is because Maersk Mckinney Moeller was a roommate of Tom Watson Jr. >>> at Yale. >> The blue I was talking about is IBM blue. > > Who did you think Tom Watson was? Someone that is not danish. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:20:14 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <471957cb$0$90266$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <4719331a$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, > =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >> Tom Linden wrote: >>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:08:15 -0700, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> Denmark is a much smaller country than UK and the financial >>>> sector in Denmark has always been very blue. >>> That is because Maersk Mckinney Moeller was a roommate of Tom Watson Jr. >>> at Yale. >> The blue I was talking about is IBM blue. >> > > Who did you think Tom Watson was? Everybody knows who Thomas Watson Jr is. The point is that the Maersk color is also blue. But the banks in general use IBM not Maersk. (the exception being the the one bank which Maersk own a big chunk of until IBM bought the IT part of Maersk) Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:32:49 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: On 10/19/07 17:41, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Dr. Dweeb wrote: >> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> But it is a long time since I have seen ACMS and >>> DECForms wanted in Denmark. > >> Where did you see that* > > http://jobeasy.comon.dk/index.php/job/show/id=113450 What's an /udvikler/? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:35:11 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: On 10/19/07 20:02, Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article <4719331a$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, >> =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >>> Tom Linden wrote: >>>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:08:15 -0700, Arne Vajhøj >>>> wrote: >>>>> Denmark is a much smaller country than UK and the financial >>>>> sector in Denmark has always been very blue. >>>> That is because Maersk Mckinney Moeller was a roommate of Tom Watson >>>> Jr. >>>> at Yale. >>> The blue I was talking about is IBM blue. >> >> Who did you think Tom Watson was? > > Someone that is not danish. Danishes are yellow-brown with frosting drizzled over them. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 23:19:18 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <471973b1$0$90267$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/19/07 17:41, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Dr. Dweeb wrote: >>> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> But it is a long time since I have seen ACMS and >>>> DECForms wanted in Denmark. >>> Where did you see that* >> http://jobeasy.comon.dk/index.php/job/show/id=113450 > > What's an /udvikler/? A developer. The add is in danish. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 06:16:00 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: Rare job posting Message-ID: <47198103$0$21924$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 10/19/07 17:41, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> Dr. Dweeb wrote: >>>> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>>> But it is a long time since I have seen ACMS and >>>>> DECForms wanted in Denmark. >>>> Where did you see that* >>> http://jobeasy.comon.dk/index.php/job/show/id=113450 >> >> What's an /udvikler/? > > A developer. > > The add is in danish. > Tak for det. Det er sikkert OK eller måske KFK. Jeg tror ikke der er noget tilbage hos TDC. Dweeb > Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 03:24:49 -0000 From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: U.S. networks being hacked right and left! Message-ID: <1192850689.546602.155540@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com> at least the ones not running OpenVMS ... http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/19/cyber.threats/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 22:36:48 -0400 From: Glenn Everhart Subject: Re: Which delete statement is faster? Message-ID: <13hiqmh9jbmjcb9@corp.supernews.com> David J Dachtera wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 10/18/07 06:55, Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: >>> On Oct 18, 3:47 am, Ron Johnson wrote: >>>> On 10/18/07 01:00, Rudolf Wingert wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> I think, that the fastest delete is the following: >>>>> BACKUP/DELETE A*.*;* NL:T/SAVE/NOCRC/GROUP=0 >>>>> AFAIK this will do all what you want in the right way (reverse order of >>>>> delete). >>>> But it wastes so much CPU & IO reading thru all the files. >>>> >>>> $ PIPE DIRE/COL=1/NOHEAD/NOTRAIL DISK$FOO:[BAR]*.* | - >>>> SORT/KEY=(POS:1,SIZE:,DESC) SYS$PIPE FOO_BAR.TXT >>>> Then DCL to delete them: >>> : >>>> $LTOP: >>>> $ READ/END=LEND IFILE IREC >>>> $ DEL/LOG 'IREC' >>> Het middle is erger dan de kwaal? >>> >>> Speaking of wasteful... what about that image activation for each >>> delete. Yikes! >> Good point. Then read 3-4 records, concatenating them into one >> larger string and then delete that. Damn DCL for having in 2007 a >> 240 byte max record size! > > As of V7.3-2 and later, DCL's "record" (max cmd) length is 4KB (4095, actually). > A directory listing including file ID could conceivably be used followed by a short program that would issue io$_delete on each file by ID. Mark the directory as /nodir first if you want to avoid nonsense. This is approximately what DFU does. Since it is not resorting directories ever, in doing this, it will run fairly fast. Once you have the file IDs, after all, the files are all just files and it makes no difference whether they are in one directory or separate directories. The ACP interface is described in the firsts chapters of the RMS manual as I recall. Note that it (using io$_delete)is not the same as lib$delete which opens the file and closes with delete as disposition. Glenn Everhart ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.573 ************************