INFO-VAX Sat, 27 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 587 Contents: Re: Disbelief! Disbelief! (was: Re: .NET Mono for VMS) Re: Disbelief! (was: Re: .NET Mono for VMS) Re: free space on disk is not correct Re: free space on disk is not correct Re: free space on disk is not correct Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Martin Fink Webcast RE: Pathworks vs CIFS performance Re: Reboot Cisco from DCL script Re: Standalone backup on Alpha? Re: Standalone backup on Alpha? Re: Test of JOnAS 4.8.6 on OpenVMS Itanium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:25:03 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Disbelief! Message-ID: <4kxUi.13343$BT5.1213@newsfe18.lga> On 10/26/07 20:27, Richard Maher wrote: > Hi, > > Kerry drooled:- >> Quick thought - are you planning to simply get Mono to run on OpenVMS or > > Arne stated the "obvious":- >> I somehow suspect that you are not all serious. > > Zane fantasized:- >> I fear you are right, though I would absolutely love to be proven wrong. > > and Jouk now owns the Brooklyn Bridge:- >> I know how to spell it. > > Not since "The Chaser's War on Everything" and the talent-devoid- > Australian/NSW security services' inability to spot a piss-take, (until > "Osama Bin Laden" walked out of the Canadian Motorcade) have > I witnessed such incomprehension! Perhaps it would help if next time > I labelled such posts with "Satirical spoof-like parody of VMS > middle managements incompetence". Would that help you out? Richard, After ".Net for Linux", anything's believable... :( -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:27:53 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Disbelief! (was: Re: .NET Mono for VMS) Message-ID: Hi, Kerry drooled:- > Quick thought - are you planning to simply get Mono to run on OpenVMS or Arne stated the "obvious":- > I somehow suspect that you are not all serious. Zane fantasized:- > I fear you are right, though I would absolutely love to be proven wrong. and Jouk now owns the Brooklyn Bridge:- > I know how to spell it. Not since "The Chaser's War on Everything" and the talent-devoid- Australian/NSW security services' inability to spot a piss-take, (until "Osama Bin Laden" walked out of the Canadian Motorcade) have I witnessed such incomprehension! Perhaps it would help if next time I labelled such posts with "Satirical spoof-like parody of VMS middle managements incompetence". Would that help you out? Why anyone would want .NET on VMS escapes me; but if what you're really asking id "How can I integrate my .NET clients with my VMS servers?" then let me point you to Chpt 7 of your Tier3 Hobbyist kit's Tier3_031.pdf file. > I don't think HP will find a business case to do the port. The point I was trying to make was that this is exactly the type of Fool's-errand that VMS middle management will stump up the funds for. (And that they have a long and illustrious track record of doing just that :-( If we hadn't had put the breaks on Glass Fish, then I have no doubt that project-funding for that would have been doled-out to someone's buddies as well.) I don't wish to appear to be repeating myself as often as Kerry Main :-) but think back briefly to the "Affinity" program and the "Middleware for Dummies" book and Rally, ONC/RPC, DCE/RPC, DECadmire, Forte, COM, BridgeWorks, acmsXP, DECforms - "We're in the Money!, We're in the Money! . . . We gotta lotta what it takes to get along!" Most recently it's been the Waste of Substantial Investment in Technology and SOAP (with a litlle gSOAP side-bet) Sadly, one simple fact that no one (certainly not at VMS) seems interested in, is that all of the VMS installed-base out there (Read: Existing Customers that are paying the bills) are using *Procedural* languages such as COBOL, BASIC, Pascal and Fortran and are accessing their rich herritage of Data and Business Rules through thread *UNSAFE* products such as Rdb. They do not want (feel the the need or shame) to wrapper their "legacy" architecture in some object-oriented ribbon just so as to make it more palatable (digestable) to an Apache, Tomcat, PHP, SOAP, Axis, Java architecture that barely runs on VMS and must've had a development-budget that'd make the US Defence Department blush! They don't understand the whole concept of WSDL and having to "Serialize" an object to a stream of bytes to send it over a Socket (that they could be doing themselves anyway) and reassemble the nodes/attributes/values on the server side only to flatten it out again to present it to their 3GL! They do not understand using a poorly performing connectionless page-trabsfer protocol such as HTTP as an application middlware backbone! (Networks are pretty unreliable these days eh?) If that is the future; if that is where VMS management sees that it can grow whole *new* generations of VMS customers then that's fantastic; get out there and sell, sell, sell! If, on the other hand, it's .NET Mono then that's also fantastic; grow that customer base; get out there and sell, sell, sell! But if, in reality, the huge increase in VMS license sales (fuelled by the "strategic direction" chosen by the same VMS Middle Management that has been fucking-up for years) fails to materialize; whatever you do *DON'T* try to justify the huge expense by once again cannibalizing, and cynically recycling, the installed-base and switching the goal-posts to say "OO, Apache, Tomcat, Java was always about providing a natural progression for our existing and long-suffering VMS customers; incresing market share was always going to be a bridge too far.". Please *DON'T* alienate and lose yet more VMS customers through failed projects, as they try to implement your pipe-dreams and to justify your existence. VMS still *is* the best server OS on the market! All your customers are crying out for (and if you ever spent any time developing "with them" rather than preaching "at them" you'd realize) is just a modern GUI and Webifying options for their existing, reliable, and high-performance servers. This has *never* required/mandated a complete re-tooling of their server-development departments or a paradigm-shift with their existing workforce. The sad truth is that VMS has been able to do this for years :-( HTML,JavaScript,CSS,Flex,Java GUI front-ends should be standard for VMS applications and true integration with Windows and *NIX in multi-cultural data centres a reality. Why is this not the case? If you want a Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP Webserver then go out and get one! If you want Windows PC clients then go out and get them! If you want Firefox or IE or Opera for your presentation layer then go crazy! and when you want the best and most reliable server platform to host your data and business logic then come and buy a VMS cluster! Putting on rubber-flippers and a bill and trying to quack like a duck is about as embarassing as dying your hair, wearing a big gold medalion, and getting a sports car too small for your gut; VMS has more dignity than that! AND MORE FUTURE! >All that is needed is 10-20 people who thinks it is actually fun to >write code for VMS. Excellent! That's about the perfect "Jobs for the Boys" quota that they're used to at VMS' IMM team! > >But I am not too optimistic. Oh, I see it happeing Arne. The true beauty and appeal of the .NET Mono project is that there's so much wrong with the idea that in, say 12, months we'll be able to justify killing the project without ever having to have come up with one deliverable. We at IMM are like Vampire's as sunrise Arne; as soon as a deliverable starts looming on the horizon - we're outta there! Anyway, even if .NET Mono doesn't eventuate they'll be other money spinners coming along for us at IMM; there always is. We've survied headcount-reduction after redundancy-round and seen many a useful engineer put to the sword while we still have our snouts in the trough. VMS customers should really just learn to be a bit more pragmatic about the whole thing. Cheers Richard Maher PS. I don't want to drop another bomb-shell on ya, but the guy in the "Memphis Meltdown" ads is not a real "Life Coach" either - You must be gutted! PPS. "IMM" is not me! it stands for HP's "International Men of Mystery" the complete mystery being. . . oh never mind. "Richard Maher" wrote in message news:fffatr$50h$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au... > Hi, > > How many people would be interested in running .NET Mono on OpenVMS, Alpha > or Integrity? Of those, how many would want to: > > 1. use OpenVMS as a host for their .NET Clients > 2. use OpenVMS as a host for their .NET Servers > 3. both of the above > > "Mono" is an Open Source initiative. We have port(ing)ed it to OpenVMS > 8.3 on Alpha and Integrity to try and justify our existence (nothing better > to > do...*literally*). > > See: - > http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page > > We at Team-IMM have become increasingly irritated at the smart-arses and > tattle-tales out there that have seen fit to inform the audience at large > that the "Great Oz" of HP VMS Consultancy Fees is just another useless > wanker talking into a loud-speaker! But more importantly, our JFTB revenue > stream, that we had lined up for the next six months (in the form of Glass > Fish), has suddenly disappeared because Arne et al have pointed out that we > didn't in fact saw our lovely assistant in half, and that it was all smoke > and mirrors, so for our next trick we've had to come up with something > completely hackneyed - and that, ladies and gentlemen, is .NET Mono! > > "Mono" is our chance to "leverage the affinity" (where have you heard that > before?) between our two great OSs. Obviously, it would be imprudent to put > all [y]our eggs in the Scott McNealy basket so we at IMM have decided to > continue our history of full-blown support for COM (somehow skiiping COM+ > and Managed Services along the road) all the way to .NET. > > Remember! - UNIX is the enemy, Eurasia has *always* been the enemy! > > So all that one or two of you have to do is simply reply to this post and > that's all the authorization me and my buddies need to spend a couple of > million of your lovely VMS license dollars on our (Glass Fish replacement) > retirement plan. Please make it so. > > C'mon, VMS doesn't have long left and just 'cos you're suffering doesn't > mean we all should; what are you - communists? We at IMM were born to rule > you stinking pigs - so just cough up and get on with it; maybe they really > are showers? > > Cheers, VMS Middle Management Carpet-Bagger > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:13:37 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Disbelief! (was: Re: .NET Mono for VMS) Message-ID: <4722ACE1.9B3CA1A6@spam.comcast.net> Richard Maher wrote: > > Hi, > > Kerry drooled:- > > Quick thought - are you planning to simply get Mono to run on OpenVMS or > > Arne stated the "obvious":- > > I somehow suspect that you are not all serious. > > Zane fantasized:- > > I fear you are right, though I would absolutely love to be proven wrong. > > and Jouk now owns the Brooklyn Bridge:- > > I know how to spell it. > > Not since "The Chaser's War on Everything" and the talent-devoid- > Australian/NSW security services' inability to spot a piss-take, (until > "Osama Bin Laden" walked out of the Canadian Motorcade) have > I witnessed such incomprehension! Perhaps it would help if next time > I labelled such posts with "Satirical spoof-like parody of VMS > middle managements incompetence". Would that help you out? > > Why anyone would want .NET on VMS escapes me; Does the word "Affinity" (as used in the DEC context) mean anything to you? -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:09:46 -0400 From: "Syltrem" Subject: Re: free space on disk is not correct Message-ID: <13i4icb5l6k0h8c@corp.supernews.com> wrote in message news:OF211D5F65.31471B0B-ON85257380.0057616F-85257380.00579C84@metso.com... "Syltrem" wrote on 10/26/2007 11:31:11 AM: > $ set volumeérebuild=force ddcu: > > Is this what you need to know ? >> Well, no it's not as the op said below that "A set vol/rebuild >> an anal/disk/repair does not fix the counters..." All I could see was the subject, no conten, and 3 times too ! But still, the /FORCE may be the key Regards, Syltrem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:16:16 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: free space on disk is not correct Message-ID: <940c2$47227542$cef8887a$2397@TEKSAVVY.COM> magalettac@hotmail.com wrote: > time to time. A set vol/rebuild and an anal/disk/repair does not fix > the counters the only way to get the disk back to seeing correct > amount of free space is to dismount drive and then remount it. How do you know that the free space is incorrect ? (This might help knowing why the count is wrong) It is possible that you have some hidden temporary files used by applications which take up a lot of space ? Neither ana/disk/repair or set vol/rebuild would solve the issue as long as those files are open by some application. Dismounting the drive implies that you have shutdown all applications and thus those files become deletable. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Oct 2007 20:23:13 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: free space on disk is not correct Message-ID: In article <13i4icb5l6k0h8c@corp.supernews.com>, "Syltrem" writes: > > wrote in message > news:OF211D5F65.31471B0B-ON85257380.0057616F-85257380.00579C84@metso.com... > > > "Syltrem" wrote on 10/26/2007 11:31:11 AM: > >> $ set volumeérebuild=force ddcu: >> >> Is this what you need to know ? > >>> Well, no it's not as the op said below that "A set vol/rebuild >>> an anal/disk/repair does not fix the counters..." > > All I could see was the subject, no conten, and 3 times too ! Likewise here. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:00:00 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <1193421600.553565.34630@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Oct 25, 6:02 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <1193307403.906042.299...@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, IanMiller writes: > > >Visit > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/30th/index.html > >and see Mark Hurd talk about VMS!!! > > >Post your own message athttp://h71000.www7.hp.com/fb_30years.html > > OpvnVMS is misspelled on that page! :roll: > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html There's a typo in one of the "past" flash page popups. When I tried to send a feedback (using the feedback link on the page) I got the expected feedback screen but when I submitted that I got the error: Unable to load the mail file from /var/opt/web/whp-web/vhost/offweb/ Main/whpadmin/control/mail-codes.txt Other than that, and the fact that the videos with their audio accompaniment started up automatically without being asked (rather jarring at work), its a pretty nice site and tribute. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 11:19:12 -0700 From: Sue Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <1193422752.098564.225270@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 26, 10:25 am, DaveG wrote: > On Oct 25, 9:31 am, "Syltrem" wrote: > > > > > > > > HP doesn't care about all the people who have bet their careers on VMS and > > > whose skills are now worthless and unmarketable, we're going down with the > > > ship and it won't affect any of their real customers on Wintel and HP-UX. > > > HP will give us a bit of music to appease us, and keep telling us that the > > > ship is unsinkable and to not worry about the rising water. At one point, > > > HP will make an announcement that the ship cannot be recovered and will > > > sink momentarily. > > > I won't be able to attend the webcast tomorrow. > > > Can someone ask Martin Fink (at the webcast) why there's not a link on thewww.hp.compageto that 30 years celebration ? > > That's not expensive to do at all, and would add some visibility. > > After all, HP is celebrating, or is it not.? > > > Please do not answer ! Let Mr. Fink do. > > > Thanks > > Syltrem > > I sent a note to Martin Fink and Scott Stallard on this and got a > reply from Stallard. There is a link from the Enterprise home page > for servers, with an interesting title "The amazing OS you've never > heard of". > > http://welcome.hp.com/country/us/en/prodserv/servers.html > > He also mentioned that he asked the corp HP team for a link at the top > page. > > Dave...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Dave here is an updated url HP.Com click on Large Enterprise Business or go directly to http://www.hp.com/country/us/en/solutions/leb.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:35:57 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <7c29d$47223391$cef8887a$7865@TEKSAVVY.COM> Sue wrote: > click on Large Enterprise Business or go directly to > http://www.hp.com/country/us/en/solutions/leb.html While this is a definite improvement over normal treatment of VMS, is there a reason HP couldn't even put this up on its main page for at least one day ? If they can put up text about HP sponsoring some solar powered car, then Shirley they could have mentioned one of their own products having lasted 30 years. I am sure there are great administrative excuses that make it impossible for the VMS group to get any exposure on http://www.hp.com even on what should have been such an important event. But they are just that: excuses. If Hurd had called the guy in charge of the main page and told him he wanted VMS featured on the main page for 1 day on its 30th anniversary, it would have been done without any hassles. Nobody is criticising the work done by the VMS folks. But the lack of real support from the HP top management is what is worrying people, and this occasion has only underlined this at a time when they had such a great opportunity to show the world (not just us) that they really want VMS to grow. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Oct 2007 20:40:17 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <472250b1$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <1SnUi.12283$ZA.8010@newsb.telia.net>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >Well, *I* have no problem with *HP*. >The largest threat against me making my living on >VMS seems to come from cov itself... Not for me. I'm for more than a decade on retreat combat with/for VMS and I'm still loosing ground (and COV has *NOTHING* to do with it - it started with DEC here which claimed that there will never be a VMS V6!)... >I just couldn't care less if this and that doesn't run >on a VAX (or a uV-II in particular). So do I. My last VAX in its last days. (my Itanic comes next month and I also will start with SIMH sometimes). But VAX is not VMS... >> My thanks and appreciation to Sue and all the others that I probably >> don't know who put together the 30th anniversary stuff. I second that!! >It's a mistery to me how Sue can stand all the neg feedback >on just about every post she does ! Amazing... It's also a mistery how she is still allowed to fight (so loud and successfully) for VMS (within HPQ) for years now... And Sue understands that COV criticize HP (toplevel) and not her personally! My hugs to Sue and keep your head up -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:06:01 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] > Sent: October 26, 2007 2:36 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young > > Sue wrote: > > > click on Large Enterprise Business or go directly to > > http://www.hp.com/country/us/en/solutions/leb.html > > While this is a definite improvement over normal treatment of VMS, is > there a reason HP couldn't even put this up on its main page for at > least one day ? > > If they can put up text about HP sponsoring some solar powered car, > then > Shirley they could have mentioned one of their own products having > lasted 30 years. > > I am sure there are great administrative excuses that make it > impossible > for the VMS group to get any exposure on http://www.hp.com even on what > should have been such an important event. But they are just that: > excuses. > Jf - What is this fascination you have with the main page on HP.com? Geeze .. Can't you say at least one nice note without bringing in all the b= lack helicopter theories? You obviously have no idea of the inner workings of a $100B company with li= terally hundreds of products. [snip...] Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:25:30 -0400 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <7dd80f60710261225j23705bd4h4538518023f2362@mail.gmail.com> On 10/26/07, Main, Kerry wrote: > What is this fascination you have with the main page on HP.com? > > Geeze .. Can't you say at least one nice note without bringing in all the black > helicopter theories? > > You obviously have no idea of the inner workings of a $100B company with literally > hundreds of products. > It's out on the main hp.com page right now. :) You will see it if the "Large Enterprise Business" tab is active. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:34:27 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <7jrUi.12291$ZA.8049@newsb.telia.net> Ken Robinson wrote: > On 10/26/07, Main, Kerry wrote: >> What is this fascination you have with the main page on HP.com? >> >> Geeze .. Can't you say at least one nice note without bringing in all the black >> helicopter theories? >> >> You obviously have no idea of the inner workings of a $100B company with literally >> hundreds of products. >> > > It's out on the main hp.com page right now. :) You will see it if the > "Large Enterprise Business" tab is active. > > Ken Right, so let's wait and see what's wrong *now*... :-) Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Oct 2007 21:35:36 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <47225da8$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article , "Main, Kerry" writes: >What is this fascination you have with the main page on HP.com? What is your fascination with JF postings? Only because he is still putting the finger in the wound (while all other got bored repeating itself pointing to the obvious and stopped years ago)? Don't shoot the messenger... (though I often get bored of JF postings, too) -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:34:06 +0200 From: Dirk Munk Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , Dirk Munk writes: >> OpenVMS customers have been paranoid about HP's intend with their OS, >> and with good reason. >> >> With that in mind, I wonder if anyone noticed that Mr. Hurd said that HP >> would support OpenVMS , not support and continue to develop OpenVMS or >> something similar. >> >> I don't know if this is significant, maybe we should ask for a >> clarification? > > Maybe you're splitting hairs on a bald man. > Don't you remember the days that Digital / Compaq etc. told us that of course they would support VMS customers, but that they also would be very happy to assist VMS customers to migrate their application to WinNT or Unix? Customers understood very well what was meant by that: MOVE AWAY FROM VMS !! And they did. Mr. Hurd must be aware of this history, and so we may expect him to be very precise in what he is saying about VMS. The fact that he doesn't say anything about the future or vitality of VMS and only talks about supporting it may have some significance. Sometimes the true meaning of a speech doesn't lie in what has been said, but in what hasn't been said. History is full of examples. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:45:37 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER [mailto:peter@langstoeger.at] > Sent: October 26, 2007 3:36 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young > > In article > t>, "Main, Kerry" writes: > >What is this fascination you have with the main page on HP.com? > > What is your fascination with JF postings? > Only because he is still putting the finger in the wound > (while all other got bored repeating itself pointing to the obvious > and stopped years ago)? > > Don't shoot the messenger... > > (though I often get bored of JF postings, too) > > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER > Network and OpenVMS system specialist > E-mail peter@langstoeger.at > A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist Well, its one thing to constantly say its raining, but when the sun comes o= ut occasionally, there is nothing wrong with recognizing that a bit of sun shi= ne is a good thing. Enjoy it. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:59:36 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <45e83$4722634b$cef8887a$10087@TEKSAVVY.COM> Main, Kerry wrote: > You obviously have no idea of the inner workings of a $100B company with literally > hundreds of products. Obviously not. And obviously companies like Microsoft, Sun, Apple etc also have no clue since they have no problem using their main mage to brag about certain achievements or new products. I am not sure whether the VMS loyalists within HP just have to defend their company even though deep down they know that the customers are right, or whether they just accept that this is how every large corporation functions and see nothing wrong with HP refusing to advertise VMS, even refuse to send out press releases, or perhaps they are truly naive and see absolutely nothing wrong with the way VMS is treated by HP and really wonder why customers see plenty of wrong ways in which HP is handling VMS. Perhaps McQuaid should hire a sacrificial loud mouth who could wreak havok within HP to sensitise people to the potential of VMS and how upper management should change their attitudes towards VMS, even though that would surely result in that person being fired fairly quickly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:22:57 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <1193437377.685284.96010@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Oct 26, 3:25 pm, "Ken Robinson" wrote: > On 10/26/07, Main, Kerry wrote: > > > What is this fascination you have with the main page on HP.com? > > > Geeze .. Can't you say at least one nice note without bringing in all the black > > helicopter theories? > > > You obviously have no idea of the inner workings of a $100B company with literally > > hundreds of products. > > It's out on the main hp.com page right now. :) You will see it if the > "Large Enterprise Business" tab is active. > > Ken Cool! Very cool. Hah!!! My letter to Mark Hurd did some good after all! ;-) Thanks, Ken, for the notice. Hurray!!! |8-D) AEF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:22:16 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] > Sent: October 26, 2007 6:00 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > > You obviously have no idea of the inner workings of a $100B company > with literally > > hundreds of products. > > Obviously not. And obviously companies like Microsoft, Sun, Apple etc > also have no clue since they have no problem using their main mage to > brag about certain achievements or new products. > Ok - quick question - Would you rather have HP advertise on the main HP web site where mostly Mom= and Pop Cust's go for printer drivers, latest desktops, laptops etc or would you pr= efer OpenVMS be advertised on the Server / Enterprise section where more serious= Cust's interested in server infrastructure solutions are more likely to go to? And since you brought it up as an example of your pedestal company, Microso= ft does not have Windows 2003 Server advertised on its Microsoft.com web site, so t= hey obviously want Customers to move to something else - right? :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:34:35 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <1193438075.228310.87020@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Oct 26, 6:22 pm, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spam...@vaxination.ca] > > Sent: October 26, 2007 6:00 PM > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young > > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > > > You obviously have no idea of the inner workings of a $100B company > > with literally > > > hundreds of products. > > > Obviously not. And obviously companies like Microsoft, Sun, Apple etc > > also have no clue since they have no problem using their main mage to > > brag about certain achievements or new products. > > Ok - quick question - > > Would you rather have HP advertise on the main HP web site where mostly Mom and Pop > Cust's go for printer drivers, latest desktops, laptops etc or would you prefer > OpenVMS be advertised on the Server / Enterprise section where more serious Cust's > interested in server infrastructure solutions are more likely to go to? > > And since you brought it up as an example of your pedestal company, Microsoft does > not have Windows 2003 Server advertised on its Microsoft.com web site, so they > obviously want Customers to move to something else - right? > > :-) > > Regards > > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660 > Fax: 613-591-4477 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT) > > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. Kerry, it's on the main page now. Did you not see Ken's post? (You're still right about JF, though.) I'd recommend also putting this on the Gov't, Health, and Education tab. Thanks hp! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 07:14:49 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: Hi Dave, > Just an observation on what I've noticed in this thread. > > Rather than celebrate 30 years and all the efforts it probably took to > get the Mark Hurd video and web site put together, it turned into yet > another gripe session. And I observe that you chose a response to my post as the most appropriate venue for your speach, yet without quoting anything from it. Maybe it's just the threading in my newsreader, but in case anyone else is confused here is my post again: - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I was around for 25 of those (for the most part) glorious years. What a crazy ride! I look forward to the next 25 (hopefully slightly less eventful) years with still the best server OS on the planet. Well done to all past and present who produced a product of such quality that it has survived, and continued to flourish, through such difficult times. The core OS engineers and the compiler guys are owed a debt of gratitude from all (me anyway) of us - Well done! (If only the layered product, middleware *and middle management* wankers could see what's starring them in the face, then the bottom line would be so much healthier! "Middleware for Dummies"? Dummies all right! Not one bloody chapter in there is still being actively supported to customers :-( Anyway, I tried not to whinge; go off and have a well deserved beer. I imagine that they'd be a gathering of many old faces at various DEC sites at the moment - The drinks are on you :-) Cheers Richard Maher <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Nah, 2nd time around I still found it uplifting. OTOH, if you are refering to the people who have gloated at the prospect of being able to pronounce VMS dead on numerous occasions over the last 15 years, (yet keep turning up to say "This time for sure" ) then please continue. Cheers Richard Maher "DaveG" wrote in message news:1193411360.720813.301570@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > Just an observation on what I've noticed in this thread. > > Rather than celebrate 30 years and all the efforts it probably took to > get the Mark Hurd video and web site put together, it turned into yet > another gripe session. > > I did like the splitting hairs on the bald guy comment. > > My thanks and appreciation to Sue and all the others that I probably > don't know who put together the 30th anniversary stuff. > > Happy Anniversary VMS !!! > > Dave... > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:26:26 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <1193448386.294147.122070@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Oct 26, 7:14 pm, "Richard Maher" wrote: > Hi Dave, > > > Just an observation on what I've noticed in this thread. > > > Rather than celebrate 30 years and all the efforts it probably took to > > get the Mark Hurd video and web site put together, it turned into yet > > another gripe session. > > And I observe that you chose a response to my post as the most appropriate > venue for your speach, yet without quoting anything from it. Maybe it's just > the threading in my newsreader, but in case anyone else is confused here is > my post again: - > > > > Hi, > > I was around for 25 of those (for the most part) glorious years. What a > crazy ride! > > I look forward to the next 25 (hopefully slightly less eventful) years with > still the best server OS on the planet. > > Well done to all past and present who produced a product of such quality > that it has survived, and continued to flourish, through such difficult > times. > [...] Continuing in this positive vein, I'd like to suggest that we write to HP execs thanking them for giving VMS more visibility and encouraging more of the same. This will at worst do nothing, but at best will help the situation. Either way, it's certainly better about complaining, griping, whining, etc. Look all that's happened from my one postal mail. (!) |;-)) Imagine if all of us did the same! :-) AEF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:16:59 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:16:43 -0700, IanMiller wrote: > Visit > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/30th/index.html > and see Mark Hurd talk about VMS!!! > > Post your own message at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/fb_30years.html > Continue "supporting for the forseeable future" is sadly a rather feeble comment -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:34:40 GMT From: Bob Harris Subject: Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson wrote: > On 10/25/07 22:39, Bob Harris wrote: > > In article <1acdd$4720ab25$cef8887a$15776@TEKSAVVY.COM>, > > JF Mezei wrote: > > > >> Ron Johnson wrote: > >> > >>> And OSX users. Unless you've figured out a way to disable the GUI. > >> While I still haven't found a way to telnet into the mac, I can ssh into > >> it and issue plenty of unix commands. And I can run X applications on > >> the mac that display on an x terminal. (But the native mac applications > >> don't do that). > > > > To access the GUI stuff, I just use VNC and view the desktop. So > > I use a combination of ssh for terminal sessions and VNC if I want > > the desktop (I actually tunnel the VNC via an ssh tunnel over the > > same ssh terminal connection. > > But that just seems so *hackish* (and not is the good connotation). > > X Windows' network transparency seems much cleaner to me, since you > don't need to run a full-blown GUI on the server (which is actually > an X client). But since Mac OS X is NOT X11 based, using VNC is a way to access the Mac OS X GUI apps remotely, if you need to do it once in a while, or even regularly if you have enough bandwidth. In addition, I've used X11 2000 miles from Client to Server, and X11 can be VERY chatty, where VNC can be much more bandwidth efficient. A lot depends on the X11 app. You have never lived until you have waited 10 to 20 seconds for a menu click to display the menu, and for multiple clicks to be queued and be totally confused about where you are in an X11 app. "Been there done that", I'll use VNC in that situation, thank you. As far as VNC is concerned, I use to to control Linux systems, Windows systems, as well as Mac OS X systems. I also use X11 and ssh sessions as well. I use what gets the job done efficiently. 'cleaner' means nothing if it is too slow. When using VNC at home, it is very fast, as I've got high speed connections between my home systems. The work connection across 2000 miles is good as well. When controlling my Mom's iMac 300 miles away, the bandwidth is less, but perfectly acceptable in avoiding a trip to Mom's house. So while you may consider it *hackish*, it is effective, and I've got the experience to know what I'm talking about. Bob Harris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:25:50 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: <4722AFBE.A92777F@spam.comcast.net> As I was unable to participate in the webcast due to family issues, I'm hoping there will be a transcript/recording/download/etc. of it available at some point. I think its fair to say that the question I posed - as I posed it - was not addressed: 1. OpenVMS, HP Business Continuity HP recently went around to the major OpenVMS ISVs (Cerner, MiSys (aka Sunquest), and others) and promoted UX instead of OpenVMS on Itanium causing a large-scale abandonment of both OpenVMS and HP in favor of IBM and AIX. We know this because our vendors told us this is what happened and our colleagues at other sites tell us that this is how their management have responded to the word from the vendors. Please explain HP's thinking in this action, and what, if anything, HP is doing to stem this tide, if not reverse it. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:23:40 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Pathworks vs CIFS performance Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: VMS is Virus Free [mailto:vms@virusfree.org] > Sent: October 24, 2007 8:01 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Pathworks vs CIFS performance > > We are considering switching out Pathworks in favor of CIFS. The main > reason is for performance: Pathworks being single threaded gets really > slow when a Windows user makes heavy use of it (example: accessing a > large directory from Windows). This impacts everyone else's > performance. We have searched for info on CIFS performance versus that > of Pathworks but have come up empty. > > Any experiences and comments relative to the merits of Pathworks > versus CIFS (aka Samba in VMS clothes) would be most appreciated. I do not know what the current beta Samba performance levels are, but like = all new software products, the goal is typically get functionality required in plac= e first - then worry about fine tuning performance. Hence, while its always fun to do mini-benchmarks, I would be very, very ca= reful about making any preliminary conclusions comparing beta Samba versions vs P= athworks performance levels. This approach is not unique to OpenVMS - most software vendors take the sam= e approach with new products. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:50:19 -0700 From: Joe Bloggs Subject: Re: Reboot Cisco from DCL script Message-ID: <5fg5i35fgh347s31j226imogg6f16bn54m@4ax.com> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:41:51 -0000, issinoho wrote: >Chaps, > >I'd like to be able to reboot a Cisco router from a DCL script. >Effectively I need the equivalent of a TRIGGER NODE which would reload >a DECserver. > >My initial thoughts would be to use the remoting functionality within >SSH but any and all other suggestions would be happily accepted. > >Thanks in advance for any inspiration. If you have Perl available, have a look at the Net::Telnet::Cisco module ... loosely/roughly: my $cs = Net::Telnet::Cisco->new( Host => $rtr ); $cs->login( '', '' ); $cs->enable( '' ); } ); @cmd_output = $cs->cmd( ' terminal length 0' ); # ...etc... @cmd_output = $cs->cmd( $cmd ); #...etc... $cs->close; ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:36:52 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Standalone backup on Alpha? Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article , JF Mezei > writes: > >> On Microvax, there was no VMS$COMMON/SYS$COMMON hiearchy, everything was >> directly under SYS0. > > Microvax is hardware; what you are referring to is a software issue. Sorry, I had meant MicroVMS. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:44:13 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Standalone backup on Alpha? Message-ID: <4722357D.9030600@comcast.net> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article , JF Mezei > writes: > > >>On Microvax, there was no VMS$COMMON/SYS$COMMON hiearchy, everything was >>directly under SYS0. > > > Microvax is hardware; what you are referring to is a software issue. > Perhaps he meant "MicroVMS". This was a version of VMS intended to run on the various MicroVAX machines. I believe it omitted support for Unibus, MassBus and other stuff that just didn't exist in the MicroVAX world. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:47:53 -0700 From: thierry.uso@wanadoo.fr Subject: Re: Test of JOnAS 4.8.6 on OpenVMS Itanium Message-ID: <1193428073.681982.149520@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On 12 oct, 18:49, thierry....@wanadoo.fr wrote: > Can volunteers test JOnAS 4.8.6 on OpenVMS Itanium ? The JOnAS > administration tool (jonasAdmin) exhibits some random dysfunctions on > my rx1620 server. > > The PCSI kit (126 Mo) can be downloaded at : > > http://vmsfree.free.fr/free/files/free-i64vms-jonas-v0408-6-1.zip > > Installation and startup are explained at : > > http://vmsfree.free.fr/freen/index.php?s=jonas > > Thanks in advance. Solved. The FILLM quota was too low. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.587 ************************