INFO-VAX Mon, 31 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 717 Contents: FLIST Installation and Setup Re: FLIST Installation and Setup Re: FLIST Installation and Setup Re: FLIST Installation and Setup Re: FLIST Installation and Setup Re: FLIST Installation and Setup OT - pdp5 FS believe it or not.. RE: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols RE: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:44:31 -0800 (PST) From: Chuck Moore Subject: FLIST Installation and Setup Message-ID: <61bdd6c2-fef0-4c96-b03f-eada2b0ffe07@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> I've just downloaded the FLIST.OBJ to my OpenVMS 7.3 system. I'm not sure what to do next in order to get it running/useable. I can't find any READMEs or INSTALL notes through Google. Anyone have any suggestions ? Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:04:00 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: FLIST Installation and Setup Message-ID: <47787840.3000503@comcast.net> Chuck Moore wrote: > I've just downloaded the FLIST.OBJ to my OpenVMS 7.3 system. I'm not > sure what to do next in order to get it running/useable. I can't find > any READMEs or INSTALL notes through Google. Anyone have any > suggestions ? > > Chuck The first thing you need to do is to link it with the LINK command, q.v. Since I haven't a clue what FLIST is or does or anything like that I'm afraid I can't help you further! If you link it successfully, you can then say RUN FLIST. God only knows what will happen then! The program should begin execution. If it needs logical names defined or command line arguments it may produce some useful/helpful error messages. If it's derived from something on Unix, forget about the useful/helpful messages. Unix doesn't do that! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:51:37 -0800 (PST) From: Chuck Moore Subject: Re: FLIST Installation and Setup Message-ID: <05699f84-cc8c-4061-9345-65df4200b325@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com> Richard -- Thanks. I ran the LINK command against FLIST (which is a directory navagation program (http://invisible-island.net/flist/ flist.html). Here's what I got : $ link FLIST.obj %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 1 is illegal (67. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 2 is illegal (213 31.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 3 is illegal (0.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 4 is illegal (0.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 5 is illegal (0.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 6 is illegal (80. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 7 is illegal (102 4.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 8 is illegal (105 3.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 9 is illegal (650 56.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 10 is illegal (10 44.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 11 is illegal (12 8.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 12 is illegal (32 .) %LINK-W-SEQNCE, illegal record sequence in module file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ; 1 %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 14 is illegal (27 482.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 15 is illegal (52 .) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 16 is illegal (20 310.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 17 is illegal (0. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 18 is illegal (0. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 19 is illegal (0. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 20 is illegal (21 587.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 21 is illegal (0. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 22 is illegal (0. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 23 is illegal (1. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 24 is illegal (1. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 25 is illegal (0. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 26 is illegal (1. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 27 is illegal (20 5.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 28 is illegal (10 55.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 29 is illegal (0. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 30 is illegal (0. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 31 is illegal (32 .) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 32 is illegal (81 92.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 33 is illegal (60 .) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 34 is illegal (21 840.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 35 is illegal (0. ) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 36 is illegal (54 .) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 37 is illegal (15 0.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 38 is illegal (64 756.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 39 is illegal (20 62.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 40 is illegal (14 808.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 41 is illegal (12 .) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 42 is illegal (58 .) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 43 is illegal (15 080.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 44 is illegal (17 .) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 45 is illegal (75 2.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 46 is illegal (15 616.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 47 is illegal (20 50.) %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 48 is illegal (77 0.) %LINK-W-NOEOM, no end-of-module record found in module file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ; 1 %LINK-W-SEQNCE, illegal record sequence in module file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ; 1 %LINK-W-EMPTYFILE, no modules found in file DKB100: [WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 %LINK-W-USRTFR, image DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.EXE;2 has no user transfer ad dress ... doesn't look good. Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 01:06:37 -0500 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: FLIST Installation and Setup Message-ID: <7dd80f60712302206n3c6c99a2tbdd5cc148c22bf4d@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 31, 2007 12:51 AM, Chuck Moore wrote: > Richard -- Thanks. I ran the LINK command against FLIST (which is a > directory navagation program (http://invisible-island.net/flist/ > flist.html). Here's what I got : > $ link If you downloaded the ZIP file from that web site & unzipped it, you should have seen a file called "build.com" in the "src" directory. Just execute that procedure with $ @build After you set the default to that directory. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 22:10:21 -0800 (PST) From: "winston19842005@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: FLIST Installation and Setup Message-ID: <1e2c59a8-1fd1-42e7-93e4-e577cfad04d7@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Dec 30, 11:44 pm, Chuck Moore wrote: > I've just downloaded the FLIST.OBJ to my OpenVMS 7.3 system. I'm not > sure what to do next in order to get it running/useable. I can't find > any READMEs or INSTALL notes through Google. Anyone have any > suggestions ? > > Chuck Did you follow the instructions in the "Freeware_demo.txt" file included in the zip? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:40:34 +1100 From: Jim Duff Subject: Re: FLIST Installation and Setup Message-ID: <47788ee5@dnews.tpgi.com.au> Chuck Moore wrote: > Richard -- Thanks. I ran the LINK command against FLIST (which is a > directory navagation program (http://invisible-island.net/flist/ > flist.html). Here's what I got : > $ link > FLIST.obj > %LINK-W-RECTYP, file DKB100:[WORKAREA.FLIST]FLIST.OBJ;1 record 1 is > illegal (67. > )[snip] Chuck, Looks like you have a corrupt object file there. I wonder where you got it, because all I find on http://invisible-island.net/flist/ is a link to a zip file containing the source, full documentation, and various other bits and pieces such as build procedures: ftp://invisible-island.net/flist/flist.zip There are no object files in this zip. I've unpacked this and compiled and linked it on OpenVMS 8.2 Alpha. While there are some interesting informational compiler diags, and an undefined symbol in the link command (which I corrected), it all appears to work. If you want a copy of the executable, you can contact me via my website. Cheers, Jim. -- www.eight-cubed.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:34:38 -0600 From: patrick jankowiak Subject: OT - pdp5 FS believe it or not.. Message-ID: believe it or not.. yes it's OT.. but to find one in a radar store and not in pieces at a computer reseller, it unusual.. DIGITAL COMPUTER. Cabinet mounted with memory core, and operating panel. Pwr: 115V, 60 Hz. Mfr: Digital Equipment. PDP-5. http://radioresearch.thomasnet.com/item/test-equipment-computers/computer/tr1934?&seo=110 not mine, no more info, interested parties (if any) should contact the link above. ckicking links upward reveals also a minuteman computer and another antique. I suppose I have not been here to the NG in a long time. Could that be because there has been no trouble at all with my VMS system?? happy new year! Patrick Jankowiak ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:56:49 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: D Gillbilly [mailto:gillbilly@ns.sympatico.ca] > Sent: December 29, 2007 11:22 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File > Protocols > > On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:44:36 +0000, "Main, Kerry" > wrote: > > >All, > > > >This might be of interest to this newsgroup. > > > >http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2239112,00.asp > >"Samba and the Software Freedom Law Center sign an agreement with > Microsoft that gives > >them full access to Microsoft's server protocols." > > > >"On Dec. 20, the Samba Group and the Software Freedom Law Center > announced a deal with > >Microsoft that places all of Microsoft's network protocols needed for > programs to work with > >Windows Server into the hands of the newly formed Protocol Freedom > Information > >Foundation. > > > >The PFIF is a U.S.-based nonprofit corporation. It will make > Microsoft's server network protocol > >documentation available to open-source developers such as Samba, which > creates programs > >for Windows Server interoperability, and private companies. This > information is provided > >under an NDA (nondisclosure agreement) and developers must agree to > the NDA before > >gaining access to the documentation." > > > >[snip .. see url for rest of article] > > > >Regards > > > >Kerry Main > >Senior Consultant > >HP Services Canada > >Voice: 613-592-4660 > >Fax: 613-591-4477 > >kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > >(remove the DOT's and AT) > > > >OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. > > > > [snip..] > But Hey, Mr Vendor, you already know that I believe that industry is > headed towards a place that OpenVMS can get to first (and maybe some of > OpenVMS is already there (or real close) :-). > So unfortunately, my pre-biased opinion adds no new value. > > But I am interested in finding value in the vendors future plans. > > What about developer tools! > (maybe a Dr. Open(wide for)VMS analyzer?) Check out: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/netbeans/overview.html "NetBeans is a modular, integrated development environment (IDE) for Java and JavaBeans development. Written in 100 percent pure Java(tm), it was open-sourced by Sun Microsystems. Its popularity is a result of its versatility, extensible architecture, and relative ease of use. Key feature= s are: - Support for the Java, C/C++, XML, and HTML - Support for JSP, XML, RMI, CORBA, JINI, JDBC, and servlet technologies - Support for Ant, CVS, and other version control systems - Pluggable support for compilers, debuggers and execution services - GUI form designer and other visual design tools - Wizards for code generation and management tools - Syntax-highlighting source editor The goal of the NetBeans "community"-based development philosophy is to maximize extensibility with the most generic and flexible framework possibl= e so that new tools can be added to a solid, stable, efficient, and backward- compatible foundation. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/netbeans/distnb.html "Distributed NetBeans for OpenVMS allows you to run the NetBeans IDE on you= r desktop system and develop applications on a remote OpenVMS Alpha or Integr= ity server system. Distributed NetBeans contains all of the functionality provided in NetBeans for OpenVMS plug-in modules: BASIC, C/C++, COBOL, FORTRAN, and PASCAL langu= age support, and MMS, BASH, DCL, and EDT Keypad support. Distributed NetBeans supports access to your files using a built-in FTP filesystem. The IDE Serv= er runs on both OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS I64. Distributed NetBeans includes support for the Web Services Integration Tool= kit template and the Ant Import statement for remote Ant execution." http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/wsit/ Web Services Integration toolkit v2 - Nov 2007) > Management interfaces? > (help change *Industry Standards* into *Standards Compliance*?) http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/wbem/wbem_index.html "Web-Based Enterprise Management (WBEM) is a Distributed Management Task Fo= rce (DMTF) standard based on the Common Information Management (CIM) model. WBEM enables customers to manage systems consistently across multiple platf= orms and operating systems, providing integrated solutions that optimize infrast= ructure for greater operational efficiency. This capability has been extended to Op= enVMS on the BL860c and BL870c Server Blade systems and the rx3600 and rx6600 mem= bers of the HP Integrity server family. Additional Integrity servers will be cer= tified in due course. > Education announcements? > (where ARE the developers?) http://www.hp.com/education/sections/openvms.html (OpenVMS training) Also, a bit dated, but relates to Integrity and open source on OpenVMS: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/news/ospp_turin.html > A sexy new GUI? > (oh yeah, it's an (small) enterprise server. Is sound out also? > :-) > What about ... > What about !!! > What about ??? > > Ahh it doesn't matter. > > Many would say that by resisting *Industry (sub)Standards* and > sitting > on the very last rock dangling my feet out over the abyss is a risky > development strategy. > > I know that the vendor or the industry is NOT going to save me. > > Ok, so? > > I'm not waiting for rescue or to be saved. > This is just a cool place to wait for SAMBA (no pressure). > I cannot avoid being retrieved and tossed into the i-box pool. > I'm a VMSlifer. > > Soon I will be using OpenVMS to help an *ix based product to break > the > anchor like hold that the *Industry Standard* has on the industry. > (just how many law suits are they away from total dominance? :-) > > Wow, and to think that I have a boring legacy job (so it seems :-). [snip..] Well, pure personal opinion, but at some point I believe the industry is going to realize that it can no longer afford these "industry standard" OS's like Windows and Linux - especially for mission critical workloads. With 5-20 security patches being released each and every month for both of these platforms, even if you go to all the work to apply latest patches and best practices, it won't matter that much as there will be another 5-20 issues to research, debug, test etc as part of the next months activities. And Management views are changing - they do not want their IT staff playing in the weeds of constant OS patching - they would much rather their IT staff be interfacing with the Business groups to help them understand how IT can help them. With massive server centralization activities going on, there is soon going to be a crunch which is going to be very painful for those using the one Bus Applic, one OS instance strategies that are typical with Windows and Linux cultures. Also, virtualization like VMware does not address multiple server instances where all the real costs are - they only reduce the HW and DC facility cost= s which are a relative minor part of most IT budgets (IT Staffing is 60-70%). What's old is new and what's new is old .. :-) Regards Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:12:12 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Message-ID: <4778184e$0$16167$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Main, Kerry wrote: > Well, pure personal opinion, but at some point I believe the industry is > going to realize that it can no longer afford these "industry standard" > OS's like Windows and Linux - especially for mission critical workloads. Consider that even today, VMS is rarely considered by the majority of IT shops. And by the time they realise Windows is costing them a lot more than other systems, VMS may no longer be available to new customers and its features will have lagged far more than now and will truly be only good enough for legacy apps. HP has many times re-enforced the message that VMS is only for existing customers. And even within the VMS group, the message is very strong that VMS is only good for back end , behind the scenes, raw server stuff like database engine and they'll argue that there is no demand for small systems, workstation, applications etc. Now that the message is sinking in to the remaining VMS customer base, your speeches should really be focused on convincing those customers HP doesn't want to lose that there is no hurry in dumping VMS. And when you consider that HP told Cerner to drop VMS, it makes you wonder if HP even cares about trying to retain VMS customers. The ship has stayed afloat for 15 years because the amount of water it was taking in wasn't huge (until the Alpha genocide). But now, we are getting close to the point where no matter what, it will sink and sink fast. Hurd may not have used explosives to blow holes into the VMS hull like Curly/Carly did with the murder of Alpha, but he hasn't exactly lifted any finger to try to plug the holes and seems to have condoned Livermore and Stallard continuing their policies of telling the world that the focus is on trying to retain the installed base when they move off VMS. And Hurd certainly hasn't fired anyone for forgetting to issue a corporate news release to celebrate the 30th anniversary of VMS. Hurd has now been in office long enough that we have to conclude that he condones the current treatment of VMS. When you consider how HP corporsate is treating VMS, statements from the lower ranks such as you that paint a rosy picture for VMS don't have much credibility anymore. You can only deny the ship is sinking for so long. At this point in time, it would probably be far more honest for you guys to tell it like it is, admit that VMS is a dead end and just comfort people that maintenance/support will continue for VMS until x years. Honesty might allow you to retain more customers when they move off VMS. Lack of honesty will ensure more customers will have policies of no longer dealing with HP. The community would have gladly jumped in to help the VMS group convince HP to put back the resources and ma VMS deserved. But since the VMS employees kept denying there was any problem, no uprising could happen. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 01:14:56 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] > Sent: December 30, 2007 5:12 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File > Protocols > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > > Well, pure personal opinion, but at some point I believe the industry > is > > going to realize that it can no longer afford these "industry > standard" > > OS's like Windows and Linux - especially for mission critical > workloads. > > Consider that even today, VMS is rarely considered by the majority of > IT > shops. And by the time they realise Windows is costing them a lot more > than other systems, VMS may no longer be available to new customers and > its features will have lagged far more than now and will truly be only > good enough for legacy apps. > [sky is falling and black helicopter stuff snipped..] Like I (and others) have said before - nobody here is saying that marketing and other areas (past and present) discussed at length in this newsgroup could not have been done differently or be improved. However, the blind doom-and-gloom you portray without any recognition of some of the good things happening is also not beneficial to those in this newsgroup. Heck, getting Mark Hurd to do a personal video testimonial for a single product (remember that HP is a $100B+ company & has hundreds of products) was a major accomplishment by folks like Sue and others in BCS working with her. And here are some recent testimonial video's:(all links are to HP site) http://tinyurl.com/2qjog6 "See how Deutsche B=F6rse, the largest financial exchange organization in the world, uses HP OpenVMS running on HP Integrity servers to keep their electronic markets up and running." http://tinyurl.com/2mt3cp - Acision and OpenVMS Blades "Acision uses HP OpenVMS running on HP Integrity servers & HP Blades to help deliver more than half of the world's text & multimedia messages & serve three quarters of all videomail users." http://tinyurl.com/34886x - Australian Stock Exchange & OpenVMS Integrity "Operating Australia's chief financial markets, the Australian Securities Exchange relies on HP OpenVMS to deliver products and services that play a major role in the economy down under." So, yes there is still lots to do, but lets also not lose sight of some Of the positive things happening as well. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:16:22 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Message-ID: <9f02262d-4fe5-4c38-8a35-497643f9f1fa@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Dec 30, 8:14 pm, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spam...@vaxination.ca] > > Sent: December 30, 2007 5:12 PM > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File > > Protocols > > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > > > Well, pure personal opinion, but at some point I believe the industry > > is > > > going to realize that it can no longer afford these "industry > > standard" > > > OS's like Windows and Linux - especially for mission critical > > workloads. > > > Consider that even today, VMS is rarely considered by the majority of > > IT > > shops. And by the time they realise Windows is costing them a lot more > > than other systems, VMS may no longer be available to new customers and > > its features will have lagged far more than now and will truly be only > > good enough for legacy apps. > > [sky is falling and black helicopter stuff snipped..] > > Like I (and others) have said before - nobody here is saying that > marketing and other areas (past and present) discussed at length in this > newsgroup could not have been done differently or be improved. > > However, the blind doom-and-gloom you portray without any recognition > of some of the good things happening is also not beneficial to those > in this newsgroup. You're right. But what about your oft-repeated mantra of the industry waking up to how expensive it is to run VMware with Windows and Linux and employee counts and what not? How many years have you been telling us this? At my company they've been trying to converge to one OS for years. I never -- but wanted to -- ask them: Do you mean Windows, Linux, or which flavor of Unix -- when of course they *really* mean all three!!! And now there's a fourth: VMware. There's no sign of this stopping at my company. So when is it going to kick in already? After people like me become non-VMS workers and later retire? > > Heck, getting Mark Hurd to do a personal video testimonial for a single > product (remember that HP is a $100B+ company & has hundreds of products) > was a major accomplishment by folks like Sue and others in BCS working > with her. This was fantastic and I, for one, not only applauded it -- I jokingly took credit for it! > > And here are some recent testimonial video's:(all links are to HP site) > > http://tinyurl.com/2qjog6 > "See how Deutsche B=F6rse, the largest financial exchange organization in > the world, uses HP OpenVMS running on HP Integrity servers to keep their > electronic markets up and running." > > http://tinyurl.com/2mt3cp- Acision and OpenVMS Blades > "Acision uses HP OpenVMS running on HP Integrity servers & HP Blades to > help deliver more than half of the world's text & multimedia messages & > serve three quarters of all videomail users." > > http://tinyurl.com/34886x- Australian Stock Exchange & OpenVMS Integrity > "Operating Australia's chief financial markets, the Australian Securities > Exchange relies on HP OpenVMS to deliver products and services that play a= > major role in the economy down under." These are nice, but we need more new customers. > So, yes there is still lots to do, but lets also not lose sight of some > Of the positive things happening as well. OK. [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 01:14:00 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Message-ID: <47788942$0$4276$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Main, Kerry wrote: > However, the blind doom-and-gloom you portray without any recognition > of some of the good things happening is also not beneficial to those > in this newsgroup. HP knows exactly what it is doing when it prohibits the marketing of VMS outside the installed base and codones statements from Stallard/Livermore that confirm that they are only interested in the VMS customer base. And remember that statements from Stallard/Livermore made to the press have far more credibility and weight than anything I say here. If you're not happy with my statements, perhaps you shoudl be asking Stallard/Livermore why they make such statements that essentially cnfirm HP is only interested in moving VMS customers to other HP products ? Perhaps you should be asking them why HP has a policy of prohibiting (or making it very hard) to make any VMS marketing targetted outside the installed base ? And check out the roadmap. Once you remove changes made to accomodate new HP hardware, licencing schemes and running VMS as an HP-UX application, there really isn't much left for real improvements. So the staff cuts made to VMS engineering are having quite an impact. > Heck, getting Mark Hurd to do a personal video testimonial for a single > product Which is a great accomplishement by Sue. Just imagine if Sue were allowed market VMS outside of the installed base. Sue is an extremely valuable resource, but its clear now that HP doesn't really allow Sue's full potential to be realised. Last year, there were still lots of hopes of Hurd getting involved and allowing VMS to grow. And that video is strategically important. This was a token action by Hurd to prevent anyone from claiming Hurd doesn't do anything for VMS. But the lack of a real press release to celebrate the 30th anniversary is more telling. (especially sicne HP made one for its calculators earlier this year). (remember that HP is a $100B+ company & has hundreds of products) And HP's slavery to Microsoft doesn't prevent HP from marketing calculators, ink etc etc etc. VMS is unique in that it is not allowed to use IT mainstream marketing. > So, yes there is still lots to do, but lets also not lose sight of some > Of the positive things happening as well. Musicians playing the violin until the very end on Titanic was also a very positive thing happening. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.717 ************************