INFO-VAX Sun, 06 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 11 Contents: Re: Island Computers is moving RE: Island Computers is moving Re: Island Computers is moving Re: Island Computers is moving Re: Island Computers is moving OpenVMS Alpha CDs Re: OT: sound minds, and the benefit of hindsight Re: OT: sound minds, and the benefit of hindsight Porting Subversion to VMS Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 17:14:51 -0600 From: pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving Message-ID: In article , Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: yyyc186 [mailto:yyyc186@hughes.net] >> Sent: January 4, 2008 5:07 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >> Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving >> >> On Jan 2, 7:22 pm, David Turner wrote: >> > Actually we did about 10% than last year. >> > Granted it is more expensive, but we were having problems with >> breakins >> > (of the criminal entry type) and the area was getting very polluted >> (we >> > were aacross the street from a Titanium Dioxide plant) >> > >> > Amazingly the new ATT T1 is upo and running and mail and web are >> working >> > I have noticed a lot of attacks on the systems but hopefully the >> Linux >> > firewall will do it's job. >> > If anyone would like to try and get into the site (no malicous entry >> > please) I would appreciate your inputs >> > >> > dt >> > >> > On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:59:40 -0500, David Turner, Island Computers >> wrote: >> > > Dear All >> > >> > > Please note that we are currently moving and numbers etc are going >> to >> > > change >> > >> > > Our new details are below >> > >> > > Toll Free 1-877 636 4332 (dependent on AT&T) Tel: 912 786 8502 x >> 201 >> > > Fax: 912 786 8505 >> > >> > > Our website may be down for a couple of days as AT &T is >> troubleshooting >> > > a T1 issue. >> > > This goes for email too, but hopefully this will be resolved soon >> > >> > > David B Turner >> > >> > > ***NEW ADDRESS AS OF DEC 28 07*** >> > >> > > Island Computers US Corp >> > > 1207 East Highway 80 >> > > Suite D >> > > Tybee GA 31328 >> > >> > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or >> entity to >> > > which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, >> and/or >> > > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or >> other >> > > use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >> by >> > > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is >> prohibited. If >> > > you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete >> the >> > > material from all computers. >> >> Well if it secured by Linux, you know the door is wide open. >> >> If it was secured by Windows the door would be wide open with a neon >> sign above it saying "Scr*w Me, I'm Used to It" > >Well, I was not going to say anything here, but what the hey? > >:-) > >He is correct in the concerns about Linux (and Windows) security as no >matter how secure you make them today, next month there will be 5-20 more >security patches to review, test, upgrade, deploy etc. And 5-20 additional >ones for every month after that if the trend for the last 2-4+ years is any >measuring stick. > If you want to try to get in to a site secured by Linux I can give you my IP address... I'll give you my VAX/VMS box if you get in. The firewall is on linux and the box protected is on FreeBSD. Let me know if and when you want to try it. I'll put a file out there with some fake financial data and if you can get it, copy it, read it or let me know its contents you win. The assertion that linux can not be secure is a joke. >Regards > >Kerry Main >Senior Consultant >HP Services Canada >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax: 613-591-4477 >kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom >(remove the DOT's and AT) > >OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. > Bill -- "When I think back on all the crap I learned in Vax school It's a wonder I fixed anything at all." (to the tune of Kodachrome) pechter-at-gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 23:49:33 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Island Computers is moving Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: William Pechter [mailto:pechter@pechter.dyndns.org] > Sent: January 5, 2008 6:15 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving > > In article > t>, > Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: yyyc186 [mailto:yyyc186@hughes.net] > >> Sent: January 4, 2008 5:07 PM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving > >> [snip...] > >> > >> Well if it secured by Linux, you know the door is wide open. > >> > >> If it was secured by Windows the door would be wide open with a neon > >> sign above it saying "Scr*w Me, I'm Used to It" > > > >Well, I was not going to say anything here, but what the hey? > > > >:-) > > > >He is correct in the concerns about Linux (and Windows) security as no > >matter how secure you make them today, next month there will be 5-20 > more > >security patches to review, test, upgrade, deploy etc. And 5-20 > additional > >ones for every month after that if the trend for the last 2-4+ years > is any > >measuring stick. > > > > > If you want to try to get in to a site secured by Linux I can give you > my IP address... I'll give you my VAX/VMS box if you get in. > > The firewall is on linux and the box protected is on FreeBSD. > > Let me know if and when you want to try it. > > I'll put a file out there with some fake financial data and if you can > get it, copy it, read it or let me know its contents you win. > > The assertion that linux can not be secure is a joke. > With enough work, any OS platform can be made relatively "secure". Unfortunately, with 5-20 new security patches being released each and every month with Windows and Linux, the challenge is "how do you keep it secure?" See RH link I posted earlier. These new security patches need to be reviewed every month to determine if there is a potential impact to your environment or not. Question - how many Linux admins do you know are even aware of all the monthly Linux security patches - let alone have the expertise and time every month to do this security review? And you can be sure that the bad guys are reviewing these new holes in minute detail - with automated tools and all other stuff they use. And holes etc are not always being sent to RH - they are circulated among themselves. See earlier link on security hole auction site. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jan 2008 00:05:08 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving Message-ID: <5uak9jF1f5pl3U2@mid.individual.net> In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > David Turner writes: > >>Amazingly the new ATT T1 is upo and running and mail and web are working >>I have noticed a lot of attacks on the systems but hopefully the Linux >>firewall will do it's job. >>If anyone would like to try and get into the site (no malicous entry >>please) I would appreciate your inputs > > You have so many DS10Ls that you give them away, but aren't using one as > a VMS webserver? :-) Reality just drives you guys crazy, doesn't it? I would bet he has things running on his ecommerce web server that can not be done a VMS webserver. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:13:20 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving Message-ID: <478047d9$0$16201$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Main, Kerry wrote: > Unfortunately, with 5-20 new security patches being released each and > every month with Windows and Linux, the challenge is "how do you keep it > secure?" And with 0 new security patches being released each and every month with VMS, the challenge is "how do you deal with the known security holes in the various HP-VMS products ? (POP, IMAP, and possibly XDM for instance) I'd rather see active finding and fixing of bugs on an OS than a lethargic OS where reports of a security flaw coming from the community at large don't get handled and serious security holes go without any patches for an eternity. Will it take someone writing an article in the Inquirer about how HP isn't bothering to issue patches for VMS anymore despite known serious security flaws before HP might put resources on tackling those issues ? Or is the end of VMS so much closer than anticipated that it isn't worth borthering ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:24:55 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving Message-ID: <47805817.2040200@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Main, Kerry wrote: > > >>Unfortunately, with 5-20 new security patches being released each and >>every month with Windows and Linux, the challenge is "how do you keep it >>secure?" > > > > And with 0 new security patches being released each and every month with > VMS, the challenge is "how do you deal with the known security holes in > the various HP-VMS products ? (POP, IMAP, and possibly XDM for instance) > > I'd rather see active finding and fixing of bugs on an OS than a > lethargic OS where reports of a security flaw coming from the community > at large don't get handled and serious security holes go without any > patches for an eternity. > > > Will it take someone writing an article in the Inquirer about how HP > isn't bothering to issue patches for VMS anymore despite known serious > security flaws before HP might put resources on tackling those issues ? > Or is the end of VMS so much closer than anticipated that it isn't worth > borthering ? Well, if you have reported a security bug and nothing has been done about it for, say, sixty days you could publish the reproducer here. This would make all sorts of people mad but it might goose HP into taking action that otherwise might not happen for months or years. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:41:22 -0800 (PST) From: John Subject: OpenVMS Alpha CDs Message-ID: <5185fac6-73cc-4c96-9af4-1464b6482c1f@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> I just picked up an AlphaStation 250 and would now like to install VMS, but unfortunately I don't have the Alpha install CDs. The hobbyist web site makes it sound like they won't have Alpha kits until May, so even if I was to order one of those I'd be stuck sitting on this box for months. Does someone mind letting me download an install image for OpenVMS Alpha? I guess any version would be fine, but the more recent the better. John ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jan 2008 00:23:31 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: OT: sound minds, and the benefit of hindsight Message-ID: <5ualc3F1f5pl3U3@mid.individual.net> In article <13nunthlrf2ie49@corp.supernews.com>, "John Wallace" writes: > > "ChrisQuayle" wrote in message > news:Dzzej.25815$KC3.11290@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net... >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >> > >> > The whole company has no problem noticing Microsoft Windows. And the >> > money from that just goes into someone else's coffers. Great way to >> > run a business. >> > >> > bill >> > >> >> The amazing thing to me, even years after the event, was the way that HP >> took an industry leading architecture and tossed it away as though it >> were worthless. Even now, such a decision doesn't look like the product >> of sound minds - irrational from any view. How can anyone take such a >> company seriously after such a fiasco and all the politics and other >> crap that's gone down since ?. >> >> At least Sun is still flying the flag of innovation - have you looked at >> Solaris 10 yet ? - Everything Tru64 would have grown into and a company >> that looks like it understands the meaning of the phrases 'business >> ethics' and 'pursuit of excellence'. >> >> Remember, it took Intel 10 years to catch up with Alpha - that's how far >> ahead it was. Rest in Peace perhaps, but not forgotten :-)... >> > > I don't know much about Sun, and whether their current situation is the > result of good judgement or good luck. Where's Andrew these days (oh, I > forgot, he had so much faith in Sun's future that he went to the Dark Side, > iirc. Or perhaps Sun had so much faith in his future :)). In this business changing employers at intervals is the norm rather than the exception. It probably means nothing. I have been with the same employer for 18 years. All it appears to have done is make it harder to find a new position now that I feel it is becoming necessary. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:17:39 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: sound minds, and the benefit of hindsight Message-ID: <47803A43.6020501@comcast.net> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <13nunthlrf2ie49@corp.supernews.com>, > "John Wallace" writes: > >>"ChrisQuayle" wrote in message >>news:Dzzej.25815$KC3.11290@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net... >> >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> >>> >>>>The whole company has no problem noticing Microsoft Windows. And the >>>>money from that just goes into someone else's coffers. Great way to >>>>run a business. >>>> >>>>bill >>>> >>> >>>The amazing thing to me, even years after the event, was the way that HP >>>took an industry leading architecture and tossed it away as though it >>>were worthless. Even now, such a decision doesn't look like the product >>>of sound minds - irrational from any view. How can anyone take such a >>>company seriously after such a fiasco and all the politics and other >>>crap that's gone down since ?. >>> >>>At least Sun is still flying the flag of innovation - have you looked at >>>Solaris 10 yet ? - Everything Tru64 would have grown into and a company >>>that looks like it understands the meaning of the phrases 'business >>>ethics' and 'pursuit of excellence'. >>> >>>Remember, it took Intel 10 years to catch up with Alpha - that's how far >>>ahead it was. Rest in Peace perhaps, but not forgotten :-)... >>> >> >>I don't know much about Sun, and whether their current situation is the >>result of good judgement or good luck. Where's Andrew these days (oh, I >>forgot, he had so much faith in Sun's future that he went to the Dark Side, >>iirc. Or perhaps Sun had so much faith in his future :)). > > > In this business changing employers at intervals is the norm rather > than the exception. It probably means nothing. I have been with > the same employer for 18 years. All it appears to have done is make > it harder to find a new position now that I feel it is becoming > necessary. > > bill > Look at it in a positive way. If you've been there eighteen years, you have almost certainly held three or four positions increasingly more responsible and better paid than the one you started with! Wise employers try to retain good people! Hiring and training new people from outside is a high expense, high risk, activity. I spent twenty-four years working for Princeton University. My long tenure there did not seem to negatively impact my subsequent career. I got at least five jobs worth of varied experience out of the deal. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:31:13 GMT From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" Subject: Porting Subversion to VMS Message-ID: I am attempting (with what little knowledge of c that I have) to port Subversion to OpenVMS. I have looked but can't see where anyone has done this already. I currently have three customers that use Netbeans for Java development and they would like the source code to be "in a safe place" which they all agree is their OpenVMS system. I could install Subversion on a Linux system (they all have them) and back it up to OpenVMS, but it would be preferable that the source stay on the OpenVMS system. I know there is a port of the CVS client to OpenVMS, but CVS appears to be replaced by Subversion and Subversion has potential pluses as it can work with apache Apache. I'll (hopefully) tackle that later. Most of the code compiles and the parts that don't seem to be related to the Berkeley DB which I don't plan on using. Subversion uses something called "Apache Portable Runtime" which would seem to isolate the Subversion code from the real OS file & network specifics. If I get this done, I will make an Alpha and Itanium version available. Does anyone have any experience with Apache Portable Runtime on VMS or is there anyone who would care to help? Jeff Coffield www.digitalsynergyinc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:51:23 +0100 From: palmipede Subject: Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Message-ID: <477ffbe2$0$30134$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Jeffrey H. Coffield a écrit : > I am attempting (with what little knowledge of c that I have) to port > Subversion to OpenVMS. Have you noticed that Mercurial is available for Vms ? http://vmspython.dyndns.org/DownloadAndInstallationMercurial Do you absolutely need Subversion or a control version tool available on Vms ? If you go to http://hg.vmspython.dyndns.org/vmspython/ you can see the recent activity Regards Gérard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:23:25 -0800 From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" Subject: Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Message-ID: palmipede wrote: > Jeffrey H. Coffield a écrit : >> I am attempting (with what little knowledge of c that I have) to port >> Subversion to OpenVMS. > > Have you noticed that Mercurial is available for Vms ? > http://vmspython.dyndns.org/DownloadAndInstallationMercurial > > Do you absolutely need Subversion or a control version tool available on > Vms ? > If you go to > http://hg.vmspython.dyndns.org/vmspython/ > you can see the recent activity > > Regards > > Gérard Wow, I missed that big time. I'll have a look. Thanks, Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:21:36 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Message-ID: <4iUfj.22893$Ux2.3521@attbi_s22> Jeffrey H. Coffield wrote: > I am attempting (with what little knowledge of c that I have) to port > Subversion to OpenVMS. I have looked but can't see where anyone has done > this already. I currently have three customers that use Netbeans for > Java development and they would like the source code to be "in a safe > place" which they all agree is their OpenVMS system. I could install > Subversion on a Linux system (they all have them) and back it up to > OpenVMS, but it would be preferable that the source stay on the OpenVMS > system. > > I know there is a port of the CVS client to OpenVMS, but CVS appears to > be replaced by Subversion and Subversion has potential pluses as it can > work with apache Apache. I'll (hopefully) tackle that later. > > Most of the code compiles and the parts that don't seem to be related to > the Berkeley DB which I don't plan on using. Only the client code will compile, the server code requires the Berkely DB. (The last time I looked) If you only compile the client, you will have to host the repository on another system. The SleepyCat source, which seems to be what LINUX uses for the Berkely DB, also seems to have VMS specific code in it, but I am not sure how well it works, if at all. > Subversion uses something called "Apache Portable Runtime" which would > seem to isolate the Subversion code from the real OS file & network > specifics. > > If I get this done, I will make an Alpha and Itanium version available. > > Does anyone have any experience with Apache Portable Runtime on VMS or > is there anyone who would care to help? If you unpack the sources for the VMS Apache product, you will find a version of the Apache Portable Runtime that has been ported to VMS already. i got the client side stuff to build last year on 8.2. The binary does not seem to work with 8.3 though. Also I did not have an SVN server to test against, and the firewall was blocking the open source ones that I wanted to reference. I built the DAV access module, but it did not work. If I start over, I would use the things that I have learned about in building the components of GTK+ 2.x which are available at ftp.encompasserve.org/gnv, along with the patches needed for GNV 2.1 and earlier. GNU tar on GNV 2.1 seems to be broken, I have not checked to see if putting the old GNV kit will work. I am currently working on getting GNU TAR 1.19 to run on VMS as I am starting to find tarballs that the existing VMSTAR and GNUTAR can not handle. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:43:34 -0600 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Message-ID: In article , "Jeffrey H. Coffield" wrote: > I am attempting (with what little knowledge of c that I have) to port > Subversion to OpenVMS. I have looked but can't see where anyone has done > this already. I currently have three customers that use Netbeans for > Java development and they would like the source code to be "in a safe > place" which they all agree is their OpenVMS system. I could install > Subversion on a Linux system (they all have them) and back it up to > OpenVMS, but it would be preferable that the source stay on the OpenVMS > system. > > I know there is a port of the CVS client to OpenVMS, but CVS appears to > be replaced by Subversion and Subversion has potential pluses as it can > work with apache Apache. I'll (hopefully) tackle that later. > > Most of the code compiles and the parts that don't seem to be related to > the Berkeley DB which I don't plan on using. > > Subversion uses something called "Apache Portable Runtime" which would > seem to isolate the Subversion code from the real OS file & network > specifics. > > If I get this done, I will make an Alpha and Itanium version available. > > Does anyone have any experience with Apache Portable Runtime on VMS or > is there anyone who would care to help? The possibility of porting Subversion to VMS has been discussed before, on the ITRC forum at least. See . As its name implies, the APR is part of Apache and if you download the sources to SWS from the HP site, you'll get a VMS port of the APR. Whether it's complete enough and up-to-date enough to form the basis of a port of the current Subversion sources is something that would need investigating. Subversion is not quite as hot an item as it was a year or two ago since other cqpable distributed VCS's have come along, but it was designed with portability in mind and is pretty ubiquitous and it would certainly be nice to have a good port available on VMS. You'll have decisions to make about whether and how to support the different VMS file formats, how filenames that are illegal on ODS-2 will be handled (or whether you'll even support VMS-syntax filenames), etc. Someone has mentioned Mercurial, which has a good reputation and is now used by the Mozilla project and, I believe, several Sun projects. The fact that it's already available on VMS is a plus. There is also Bazaar , which, like Mercurial, is written in Python and should be rather portable. Git has its adherents (); it was specifically written for Linux kernel maintenance and is not very portable. It makes liberal use of fork() and most of its commands are implemented as shell scripts; I suppose it has some potential for running under GNV's bash. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 20:15:44 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Porting Subversion to VMS Message-ID: <08010520154467_206002CA@antinode.org> From: "John E. Malmberg" > I am currently working on getting GNU TAR 1.19 to run on VMS as I am > starting to find tarballs that the existing VMSTAR and GNUTAR can not > handle. Unofficial, and not seriously tested, but potentially useful: http://antinode.org/ftp/vmstar/v3r5_pre2_src.zip I'd build it using something like "MMS LARGE=1". It's intended to deal with GNU-style long names, symlinks, and large files. No bets, but feel free to wake me when it breaks down. (There's also a "pre1" edition in the same place which uses older builders. Not much difference in the actual code, though.) GNU "tar" 1.19 seems to have build problems on some UNIX systems. I'd stick with 1.18 (or wait for 1.20), unless I had a good reason to use 1.19. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 08:36:03 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Message-ID: Hi Kerry, > Same goes for many of the other 3GL's. Bottom line is that many Cust's > have way to much invested in business logic written in these traditional > languages to do any major conversions. Ok, so that's at least you and me here that understand that. (And many IT depts in the City of London that know that their VMS workhorses are the most cost-effective solutions available.) Why they still also use Pascal escapes me but anyway :-) But I'm interested in what you'd classify as "major conversions"; specifically I'm looking for testimonials from one of HP's many satisfied WSIT customers, or at least a HP Website reference for the PetShop (or similar) example with a 3GL +/- ACMS backend. Cheers Richard Maher "Main, Kerry" wrote in message news:C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BEC603BE8D4@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net... > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] > Sent: January 4, 2008 11:06 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File > Protocols > > Hi, > > > Key skills VMS OpenVMS VMS C VMS COBOL > > What no Java? No SOAP? No Apache/Tomcat? > Hey, different strokes for different folks. Cobol was around long before I started in the industry and will certainly continue to be a major player long after I have retired. Same goes for many of the other 3GL's. Bottom line is that many Cust's have way to much invested in business logic written in these traditional languages to do any major conversions. Reference the following article: (a bit dated, but still applicable today) http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1237807,00.asp Is COBOL the 18-Wheeler of the Web? Extracts: "If you're looking for a hot combination of highly employable skills, consider writing code to provide Web services--in COBOL." "It takes a while to refill the pipeline of critical skills, after we notice that it's running dry. If we're going to need people in, say, 2008 who have current knowledge of the Internet and the Web, practiced skills in writing COBOL code that can use those network resources, and five to 10 years of experience in leading a development team, now is not too soon to start developing those assets." Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:10:38 -0800 (PST) From: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" Subject: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Message-ID: Hello I picked up a VAXstation/server 2000 with a RD54. After loading 7.3/ DECwindows/UCX 4.2 I am down to less then 80000 blocks free. I never used VMStailor to free up space on a system disk, so is there a guide on how to use VMStailor? I dont really know what is safe to remove or keep. Also if anybody wants to take this bad boy off my hands, make me a offer. tks phillip ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:25:07 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Message-ID: <47801FE3.9000409@comcast.net> tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote: > Hello > I picked up a VAXstation/server 2000 with a RD54. After loading 7.3/ > DECwindows/UCX 4.2 I am down to less then 80000 blocks free. I never > used VMStailor to free up space on a system disk, so is there a guide > on how to use VMStailor? I dont really know what is safe to remove or > keep. > Also if anybody wants to take this bad boy off my hands, make me a > offer. > tks > phillip At this point the VAXStation 2000 is more valuable as an antique doorstop or paperweight than as a computer! It was, if not the slowest VAX ever made, quite close to it! It had "almost SCSI" for I/O. It worked but that was about all that could be said for it. I had one of these beasts for a while while I was working at Princeton University. Unless you have the expansion box you can't connect a tape drive to it so it's a little difficult to back it up. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 19:52:23 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Message-ID: <08010519522303_206002CA@antinode.org> From: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" > I picked up a VAXstation/server 2000 with a RD54. After loading 7.3/ > DECwindows/UCX 4.2 I am down to less then 80000 blocks free. I never > used VMStailor to free up space on a system disk, so is there a guide > on how to use VMStailor? I dont really know what is safe to remove or > keep. How'd you get so much free space? Mine has two RD54 disks with VMS V5.5-2, and I'm pretty sure that it has less free space. (Must be the compilers and the big page file(s)?) I never tailored off anything, but then I hate throwing anything away. Maybe you need to install Motif. > Also if anybody wants to take this bad boy off my hands, make me a > offer. A working RD54 should be good for a few hundred dollars on eBay. I'm always looking for a (free/cheap) 12MB memory board for mine. With only 6MB, it's hard to avoid over-using the slow disks. From: "Richard B. Gilbert" > [...] It was, if not the slowest > VAX ever made, quite close to it! [...] I'd expect it to beat any 7XX, where XX < 80, unless you make it use the disk for much. "http://antinode.org/dec/vs2000_spec.html": MICROVAX 2000 SPECIFICATIONS PARAMETER VALUE rev date:7/6/89 ============================================================================== Relative CPU performance (VAX780 = 1.0) > .9 [...] The thing's not even twenty years old yet. How slow can it be? > Unless you have the expansion box you can't connect a tape drive to it > so it's a little difficult to back it up. Make a cable? The disk cabling is a bit complicated ("http://antinode.org/dec/disk_cable.html"), but, as I recall, the (near-SCSI) tape cable is simple enough. (How many 1.2MB floppies would it take to do a 159MB disk? Some people are so quick to find problems.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:46:48 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Message-ID: <47804118.3050705@comcast.net> Steven M. Schweda wrote: > From: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" > >>I picked up a VAXstation/server 2000 with a RD54. After loading 7.3/ >>DECwindows/UCX 4.2 I am down to less then 80000 blocks free. I never >>used VMStailor to free up space on a system disk, so is there a guide >>on how to use VMStailor? I dont really know what is safe to remove or >>keep. > > > How'd you get so much free space? Mine has two RD54 disks with VMS > V5.5-2, and I'm pretty sure that it has less free space. (Must be the > compilers and the big page file(s)?) I never tailored off anything, but > then I hate throwing anything away. Maybe you need to install Motif. > > >>Also if anybody wants to take this bad boy off my hands, make me a >>offer. > > > A working RD54 should be good for a few hundred dollars on eBay. I'm > always looking for a (free/cheap) 12MB memory board for mine. With only > 6MB, it's hard to avoid over-using the slow disks. > > From: "Richard B. Gilbert" > >>[...] It was, if not the slowest >>VAX ever made, quite close to it! [...] > > > I'd expect it to beat any 7XX, where XX < 80, unless you make it use > the disk for much. "http://antinode.org/dec/vs2000_spec.html": > > MICROVAX 2000 SPECIFICATIONS > > PARAMETER VALUE rev date:7/6/89 > ============================================================================== > Relative CPU performance (VAX780 = 1.0) > .9 > [...] > > > The thing's not even twenty years old yet. How slow can it be? > > >>Unless you have the expansion box you can't connect a tape drive to it >>so it's a little difficult to back it up. > > > Make a cable? The disk cabling is a bit complicated > ("http://antinode.org/dec/disk_cable.html"), but, as I recall, the > (near-SCSI) tape cable is simple enough. (How many 1.2MB floppies would > it take to do a 159MB disk? Some people are so quick to find problems.) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 All right! Only the VAX 11/750, 11/730, 11/725 and, perhaps, the MicroVAX I were slower. It's pretty sorry company to be in! I had a number of VAXen at Princeton including: two VAXstation 2000, VAX 11/750, MicroVAX II, VAX 8200, VAXSstation 3100, VAXStation II, etc. I can't really say I miss them. They were great in their day but their day is long gone! The intervening twenty-three years have spoiled me rotten; I've grown used to getting my prompt back before I can go to the refrigirator for a fresh Coke! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:22:51 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Message-ID: <47804a13$0$16167$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> A working antique is worth a lot more than just an antique used as a door stop. In terms of the original question: -compress libraries first. -remove programming support (I think this is now the "optional" stuff. To deal with decwindows, it is DECW$TAILOR you need to use. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 21:32:38 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Message-ID: <08010521323809_206002CA@antinode.org> From: JF Mezei > -compress libraries first. You mean avoid decompressing (SYS$UPDATE:LIBDECOMP.COM) them? > -remove programming support (I think this is now the "optional" stuff. Perhaps for you. SMS. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.011 ************************