INFO-VAX Sun, 06 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 12 Contents: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? dial up modem Re: dial up modem Re: dial up modem RE: Island Computers is moving Re: Island Computers is moving RE: on patches, for Linux, for Windows, for VMS. Re: OpenVMS Alpha CDs OT: on patches, for Linux, for Windows, for VMS. Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:19:02 -0800 (PST) From: gaoshan.wang@gmail.com Subject: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <27c4e6ef-b034-4706-b686-004b28baaddd@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> I have been working on openvms for about 20 years, and know this is a rock solid os, unfortunately HP doesn't care too much and unlikely to invest. It's sad that vms market is shrinking for different reasons. I know there are lots openvms talents here and are afraid too loose their jobs for forseeable future. But I have a idea, can we form a company that focus on a clustering operating system which provide basic os functionaility , memory management, scheduing, process management, clustering etc and a optimized java compiler, anyway a robut os. I am in china right now, and have been talking with venture capitals recently, probably can get 100m us$ to start up provided we have the ability. There is a big OS market developing in china right now, people hate crappy micro$oft products, often refering to toxic waste with tainted blue screen:) The middle class population is estimated about 10B in next 5-10years, this is true from my observation. If everyone spend 100 bucks on a robust OS, the total market is 300B us$ if os refreshes every 3 years. There are huge demand for high-avalible OS in every segmant, manufactuing, hospital, telecommunications, high- speed railway, investment institutions, banks, government, military you name it. Shanghai stock exchange (probably will be biggest trading house in next 10 years ) now is builing one of the biggest trading engine from transaction perspective in human history base on openvms to replace carppy hp-ux and wintels, but they are not happy with HP now. If you are interested, please send me your resumes etc, we can talk from there, don't worry about compensation stuff ( we can pay you as much as you could imagine as long as you can delivery ) telecommunting should be fine as well. my email address gaoshan.wang_no_spam_please@gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 07:58:14 -0800 (PST) From: "rexdale1050@yahoo.ca" Subject: dial up modem Message-ID: I need help ! I would like like to use command prompt on windows xp software to dial up using atdt modem commands to connect with my modem on my alpha server ds - 10 running vms 7 . 3 and use as a vt teminal Thank you for any help Neil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 11:19:21 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: dial up modem Message-ID: <4780FF89.6050004@comcast.net> rexdale1050@yahoo.ca wrote: > I need help ! > I would like like to use command prompt on windows xp software > to dial up using atdt modem commands to connect with my modem on my > alpha server ds - 10 running vms 7 . 3 > and use as a vt teminal > > Thank you for any help > Neil You need some sort of software on your PC to do that. I think Windows has some sort of a dumb terminal built in but I can't recall what it's called. For a VT100, or better, terminal emulation, you'll need something like Reflection 2 or Reflection 4 (graphics terminal). Even terminal emulation software is not totally satisfactory since the standard PC KeyPad is one key short of a VT100 keypad. Once upon a time you could get the LK250 or LK450 keyboard but those were never plentiful and are now quire rare! You could try e-Bay but don't get your hopes up. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 11:51:49 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: dial up modem Message-ID: <4780C0D5.4609.E452051@infovax.stanq.com> > > I would like like to use command prompt on windows xp software > > to dial up using atdt modem commands to connect with my modem on my > > alpha server ds - 10 running vms 7 . 3 > > and use as a vt teminal > > You need some sort of software on your PC to do that. I think Windows > has some sort of a dumb terminal built in but I can't recall what it's > called. Hyperterminal. It's a really lousy implementation, though. I'd recommend you Google "PUTTY download". The first link gets you to a page from which you can download a pretty good (and free!) terminal emulation program. The latest version includes serial lines, which you'll need to control your modem. --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 14:28:16 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Island Computers is moving Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca] > Sent: January 5, 2008 10:13 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving > > Main, Kerry wrote: > > > Unfortunately, with 5-20 new security patches being released each and > > every month with Windows and Linux, the challenge is "how do you keep > it > > secure?" > > > And with 0 new security patches being released each and every month > with > VMS, the challenge is "how do you deal with the known security holes in > the various HP-VMS products ? (POP, IMAP, and possibly XDM for > instance) > [snip..] What was the report or log number of the issue(s) when you reported each of these to HP? Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 13:24:06 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving Message-ID: <47811d4d$0$16216$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Main, Kerry wrote: > What was the report or log number of the issue(s) when you reported each of > these to HP? Give me an email address where a non customer can report problems and I will gladly do it. However, in other environments, someone publically reporting a problem would have been picked up by employees and reported internally and fix provided fairly quickly. Instead, we are now debating on excuses for HP not taking proactive action to plug holes in its software. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 14:24:53 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: on patches, for Linux, for Windows, for VMS. Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: John Wallace [mailto:johnwallace4@yahoo.spam.co.uk] > Sent: January 6, 2008 5:42 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: OT: on patches, for Linux, for Windows, for VMS. > > You do yourself no favours at all with this Linux-related > disinformation, > Kerry (and my news client still can't make quoting work right with your > client :(). > > > any OS platform can be made relatively "secure". > > How does that work with VMS, then, which has long-standing known > security > holes in Internerd-facing components (hello JF), no sign that HP are > going > to fix them, no way for customers to fix them themselves, and limited > availability of free/open alternatives ? > Did JF officially log these issues with HP? (I seem to recall that he might have, but would like to confirm) > > Unfortunately, with 5-20 new security patches being released each and > > every month with Windows and Linux, the challenge is "how do you keep > it > > secure?" > > > >See RH link I posted earlier. These new security patches need to be > >reviewed every month to determine if there is a potential impact to > your > >environment or not. > > > >Question - how many Linux admins do you know are even aware of all the > >monthly Linux security patches - let alone have the expertise and time > >every month to do this security review? > > s/Linux/Windows. How many Windows admins do you know are even aware of > all > the monthly Windows security patches - let alone have the expertise and > time > every month to do this security review? > > Is it just my interpretation, or do you choose to (mostly???) knock > Linux > rather than Windows too? Windows is a much bigger target, > technologically a > much easier target, and getting people off Windows rather than trying > to > discourage the already open-minded from looking at Linux ought to be > more > rewarding for an independent-minded enterprise-class IT consultant. > Perhaps > you reckon this phase is already won? Or is not worth fighting? > Nope, nice try, but while it might be argued that Linux is a shade better than Windows, both are pretty much in the same leaky boat. If, for whatever reason, someone did not want OpenVMS, then from a mission critical enterprise perspective, my personal view is that they would be far better off looking at the available enterprise UNIX offerings. Fwiw, while everyone is free to choose what ever their personal OS religion preferences are, I just do not think that mission critical environments can afford Windows or Linux. The IT world is centralizing in a massive way and the one bus app per OS instance culture combined with all of the monthly security patches is just not a good centralized platform to face the future with. > Either way, maybe 2008 might even be the year that the Vistas and the > associated incompatible Office (and possiby Studio) releases make the > typical company 'sWintel-only IT department (and more importantly their > managers) wake up, to the extent that it hits the MS-ecosystem's bottom > line > (well I can dream can't I?). > > Back to the Linuxes: I don't know RH, but if you knew SUSE like I know > SUSE > (?) you'd know that it typically takes a maximum of two seconds per > SUSE-supplied patch to review whether it's related to the security of > Internerd-facing components (kernel, daemons, some utilities, etc), > rather > than the security of typical optional desktop apps which come bundled > for > free in the package - patches to these optional desktop components make > up > most of the SUSE patches. > Great - you are an experienced Linux SysAdmin with time very month to spend reviewing these security patches. Now, how do the SysAdmins in large corp's with literally hundreds of these one Bus App, one OS Linux (or Windows) environments do the same thing? Especially when the Dev groups often do their own thing with respect to maintaining their systems? Even when the Operations groups maintain the servers for the developers, they typically know very little about the services the Dev's use on those systems. > It also seems appropriate to point out that the co-operation of the > Linux > supplier is typically not needed to fix a hole if something bad does > turn > up; if the vendor chooses to ignore it, you just need the co-operation > of > the Linux community. Try that with Windows, or even (these days) with > VMS. > Yeah, this is the age old argument about doing it all yourself. And the counter argument is how do you maintain version control if you are installing / creating all these patches yourself? What happens when the vendor releases a large kit or release and your patches break something - perhaps during a cluster fail-over or something else you had not thought about. From a company perspective, what happens when you leave and they only have some junior staff who only have Operations background. Yes, you can hire another experienced SysAdmin, but then he/she needs to review all the patches you applied and why. And of course, this assumes that you have documented your patches very well. And of course, you test your critical applications with these Custom patches before putting into production. And if there is a security breach discovered because of some server OS patch you put together (or received from the Internet community), depending on the criticality of your business, your company may have to explain to auditors where you (and hence the company) personally screwed up - as opposed to blaming the vendor for some security hole in their offering. This age old argument goes both ways and it really depends on Mgmt's relationship with their vendors, risk mgmt and where they want their senior IT staff to spend their time. I do know from experience that there seems to be a growing trend among senior IT mgmt that they do not want their senior IT staff playing in the OS weeds. They want their senior staff working more closely with the BU's to show them how IT can help them address their needs and become more competitive. OS patching and maint is not very high on the BU priorities. Ok, its not even on their radar screen - they could not care less. This is not to say that open source stuff does have a play in some areas, but lets not put it on some higher pedestal as there are real issues that many promoters tend to overlook. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 02:44:34 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha CDs Message-ID: <478086fe$0$15798$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> John wrote: > Does someone mind letting me download an install image for OpenVMS > Alpha? I guess any version would be fine, but the more recent the > better. I mind ! I Mind ! Contact me via email (remove the spamnot) for details on how this can be done. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 10:42:26 -0000 From: "John Wallace" Subject: OT: on patches, for Linux, for Windows, for VMS. Message-ID: <13o1c4qjivp1i28@corp.supernews.com> You do yourself no favours at all with this Linux-related disinformation, Kerry (and my news client still can't make quoting work right with your client :(). > any OS platform can be made relatively "secure". How does that work with VMS, then, which has long-standing known security holes in Internerd-facing components (hello JF), no sign that HP are going to fix them, no way for customers to fix them themselves, and limited availability of free/open alternatives ? > Unfortunately, with 5-20 new security patches being released each and > every month with Windows and Linux, the challenge is "how do you keep it > secure?" > >See RH link I posted earlier. These new security patches need to be >reviewed every month to determine if there is a potential impact to your >environment or not. > >Question - how many Linux admins do you know are even aware of all the >monthly Linux security patches - let alone have the expertise and time >every month to do this security review? s/Linux/Windows. How many Windows admins do you know are even aware of all the monthly Windows security patches - let alone have the expertise and time every month to do this security review? Is it just my interpretation, or do you choose to (mostly???) knock Linux rather than Windows too? Windows is a much bigger target, technologically a much easier target, and getting people off Windows rather than trying to discourage the already open-minded from looking at Linux ought to be more rewarding for an independent-minded enterprise-class IT consultant. Perhaps you reckon this phase is already won? Or is not worth fighting? Either way, maybe 2008 might even be the year that the Vistas and the associated incompatible Office (and possiby Studio) releases make the typical company 'sWintel-only IT department (and more importantly their managers) wake up, to the extent that it hits the MS-ecosystem's bottom line (well I can dream can't I?). Back to the Linuxes: I don't know RH, but if you knew SUSE like I know SUSE (?) you'd know that it typically takes a maximum of two seconds per SUSE-supplied patch to review whether it's related to the security of Internerd-facing components (kernel, daemons, some utilities, etc), rather than the security of typical optional desktop apps which come bundled for free in the package - patches to these optional desktop components make up most of the SUSE patches. It also seems appropriate to point out that the co-operation of the Linux supplier is typically not needed to fix a hole if something bad does turn up; if the vendor chooses to ignore it, you just need the co-operation of the Linux community. Try that with Windows, or even (these days) with VMS. 2p John ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 13:57:12 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 and a RD54 Message-ID: In article <47804118.3050705@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >{...snip..} > >All right! Only the VAX 11/750, 11/730, 11/725 and, perhaps, the >MicroVAX I were slower. It's pretty sorry company to be in! I had a >number of VAXen at Princeton including: two VAXstation 2000, VAX 11/750, >MicroVAX II, VAX 8200, VAXSstation 3100, VAXStation II, etc. I can't >really say I miss them. They were great in their day but their day is >long gone! The intervening twenty-three years have spoiled me rotten; >I've grown used to getting my prompt back before I can go to the >refrigirator for a fresh Coke! Lay off that Coke stuff. It's bad! Just how much *are* RD54s going for on ebay? As for response, while computers in the past 20 years were speeding up according to Moore's Law, the software they run was bloating at a rate proportional to 1/(Moore's Law). In the case of Micro$oft, that would be more like 1/[(Moore's Law)**n] ;) There are certain tasks that I can perform _much_ faster on an old VAX than I can on the newest GUI slicked out apps on the latest processors. If the apps are on a Micro$oft box, don't forget to factor in mandatory reboots when configuring and supplying input to said apps. {1} {1} No less than 9 reboots over NYD to change some TCP/IP and security settings on a Weendoze box. I don't see why Weendoze forces a reboot for a TCP/IP setting but at least let me batch all of the changes and reboot only once. Greetings Professor Faulken... Weendoze! The only winning move is not to plug-and-pray. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.012 ************************