INFO-VAX Wed, 09 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 17 Contents: "USE" statement in Fortran Re: "USE" statement in Fortran Re: "USE" statement in Fortran Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Building libxml2 on OpenVMS/VAX Re: Carl J. Lydick Re: Carl J. Lydick Re: Carl J. Lydick Re: decnet setup problem Dictionay attacks on VMS (was Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ?) Re: Dictionay attacks on VMS (was Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ?) Re: Dictionay attacks on VMS (was Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ?) Re: Dictionay attacks on VMS (was Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ?) /G Re: Leopard improves SIMH performance New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Re: New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Re: New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Re: New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Re: New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Re: Perl issues? (was Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo) Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ? Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ? Re: SOT: (somewhat off topic) driver for LK250 keyboard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:02:55 -0800 (PST) From: RLFitch Subject: "USE" statement in Fortran Message-ID: If I try to compile some code that has a 'USE' statment the module file must be in the same directory as the program code. Is it possible to direct the 'USE' statment to use a file in some other directory? PROGRAM T USE MOD1 write (*,6) 'test' END PROGRAM T $ fort t USE MOD1 ....^ %F90-E-ERROR, Error in opening the Library module file. [MOD1] at line number 2 in file USER:[RFITCH.DEV.DISLIN]T.F90;2 Ransom Fitch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:19:30 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: "USE" statement in Fortran Message-ID: <47844b48$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> RLFitch wrote: > If I try to compile some code that has a 'USE' statment the module > file must be in the same directory as the program code. Is it > possible to direct the 'USE' statment to use a file in some other > directory? > PROGRAM T > USE MOD1 > > write (*,6) 'test' > > END PROGRAM T > > $ fort t > > USE MOD1 > ....^ > %F90-E-ERROR, Error in opening the Library module file. [MOD1] > at line number 2 in file USER:[RFITCH.DEV.DISLIN]T.F90;2 /MODULE=dir maybe. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:28:46 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: "USE" statement in Fortran Message-ID: <08010822284695_20611B2D@antinode.org> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= > RLFitch wrote: > > If I try to compile some code that has a 'USE' statment the module > > file must be in the same directory as the program code. Is it > > possible to direct the 'USE' statment to use a file in some other > > directory? > > PROGRAM T > > USE MOD1 > > > > write (*,6) 'test' > > > > END PROGRAM T > > > > $ fort t > > > > USE MOD1 > > ....^ > > %F90-E-ERROR, Error in opening the Library module file. [MOD1] > > at line number 2 in file USER:[RFITCH.DEV.DISLIN]T.F90;2 > > /MODULE=dir > > maybe. Or /INCLUDE=(dir[,...]). See HELP FORTRAN /INCLUDE: [...] Specifies an additional directory for the HP Fortran compiler to search for module files or include files: o Module files are specified by a USE statement. The module files have a file type of F90$MOD and are created by the HP Fortran compiler. [...] (It's amazing how out-of-date my Fortran knowledge is.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 20:41:15 +0000 (UTC) From: JKB Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: Le 08-01-2008, à propos de Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS?, Michel HERRSCHER écrivait dans comp.os.vms : > Dans un message yyyc186 disait : > >> On Jan 8, 5:38 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >>> >>> And then get sued by HP if any of the code looks anything like that in >>> VMS since the Engineers you poached had access to the VMS sources. >>> >> >> That would be a court case the underdog would win. HP has both >> demonstrated and allowed documentation to be created stating they have >> abandoned the OpenVMS platform. Suing a company who ported it to a >> completely different platform AMD rather than Titanic with no HP or >> Intel components anywhere in the developed system would win the day in >> court. You forget that OpenVMS is used heavily by military and >> military contractors. In the past it was under a Strategic Supplier >> contract, breach of which is an act of treason and all acts of treason >> are eligible for the death penalty. We've just tended to hand life in >> prison out lately. >> >> Porting OpenVMS to a non-Intel non-HP platform would give the DOD a >> second source and a real hardware vendor. > > There is a project running on that matter (X86 platform): > http://www.freevms.org/ > > I know the team is looking for developpers ;-)) Yes, isn't it ? ;-) But 0.3.9 was released... Regards, JKB -- Le cerveau, c'est un véritable scandale écologique. Il représente 2% de notre masse corporelle, mais disperse à lui seul 25% de l'énergie que nous consommons tous les jours. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:04:27 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4783f3d9$0$15789$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> John wrote: > So the Department of Defense is going to buy a Chinese-written > operating system? Correct me if I'm wrong but that seems unlikely to > me. I'd rather lose that one defence customer and gain widespread aoppeal and growth for VMS than be stuck with just the military as customer at which point VMS becomes a custom built application for just one customer. When you look at the current mentality, the few resources left in VMS engineering are focused on catering to the remaining installed base. So in may ways, VMS is already a custom built product for a small group of customers. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:21:19 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4783f83f$0$16164$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > Please provide links to that HP documentation. In any case they definitely have > not placed OpenVMS into the public-domain ie open-sourced it. > Hence they could and would sue. Do you really think HP would notice ? Most people within HP probably don't even know they own VMS. (in act they don't, "VMS" was abandonned a long time ago. Consider that many concepts within VMS have been implemented in other operating sytems. The concept of a "mailbox" had been part of the PSION EPOC OS since the 1990s for its PDAs to provide for inter process communications. Was Microsoft sued because Cutler re-used many concepts of VMS when he started to try to fix Windows ? And when you look at "Clustering", this has been implented by many people to varying degrees. And HP hasn't sued anyone. In fact, didn't Digital donate the code to Microsoft in exchange for the privilege to sell Wintel boxes ? On the "soft" side, it can easily be argued that HP does not care for VMS. They aren't marketing it, they aren't trying to grow its installed base, and you can get various statements from Stallard and Livermore that clearly stated that their goal is to get VMS customers to move to HP-UX. (remember the may 7 2002 memo ?) So if HP is not taking any actions to grow this product and acs as if it is willing to give it up, it is a little harder for it to claim danmages. Furthermore, lets look at clustering. Tru64 got it from VMS. HP had promised to move the Tru64 clustering to HP-UX, but then decided it wasn't an asset worth the effort and went instead with a 3rd party product from Veritas. Where I see some issues is if someone copies files from the old VMS to the free VMS (for instance the help libraries, and many command procedures). But even then, it is likely HP wouldn't notice. Also, as long as the new VMS doesn't steal any of the remaining customers, HP probably wouldn't care. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:03:57 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <4784015D.2060400@comcast.net> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <841c744b-5f3a-48b6-9c08-9dfc589948ef@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, yyyc186 writes: > >>On Jan 8, 5:38 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> >>>And then get sued by HP if any of the code looks anything like that in VMS >>>since the Engineers you poached had access to the VMS sources. >>> >> >>That would be a court case the underdog would win. HP has both >>demonstrated and allowed documentation to be created stating they have >>abandoned the OpenVMS platform. > > > Please provide links to that HP documentation. In any case they definitely have > not placed OpenVMS into the public-domain ie open-sourced it. > Hence they could and would sue. If it was someone big and powerful like > Microsoft doing the port then HP would probably be bought off for a pittance > but if it was anyone smaller then the porters would probably either lose the > case very quickly or be held up in court for long enough for them to go > bankrupt. > > > Even the suspicion of not using clean-room reverse engineering in porting could > cause problems as in the allegation of 17th January 2006 that the Free ReactOS > contained code obtained by disassembling Microsoft Windows see > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS > > > >>Suing a company who ported it to a >>completely different platform AMD rather than Titanic with no HP or >>Intel components anywhere in the developed system would win the day in >>court. > > > The problem isn't with hardware components it is with software components ie > the code which belongs to HP as the successor to Compaq and Digital. > You can't just pinch someone's proprietary code and port it to another > platform. You can though reverse-engineer that code and port it. But you need > to be able to show that you have done the latter not the former otherwise you > will face the full force of the law. > You would need to use the "clean" procedure that was used to create third party BIOS for the PC clones. This procedure requires two teams: the first to analyze the original and determine exactly what the code to be produced must be and do and produce a specification. The second team, having NEVER seen the original code, takes the specification and writes new software. It could be done but it would probably be an economic disaster! Thirteen years of non-marketing and mismanagement have taken their toll. . . . I'd guess somewhere between two hundred and five hundred man years to produce NewVMS and then who would buy it? Who would put up the fifty million or so to pay the salarys and benefits for the developers? There would probably be several more millions required for office space, computer equipment, etc. Even before Robert Palmer, the world was not beating a path to DEC's door to buy VMS. The world was buying Unix! It crashed a lot but it booted real fast. . . . And Unix ran on relatively cheap hardware. The seeds of disaster were sown in the early 1980s! DEC could not or would not compete with the vendors of cheap Unix workstations. . . . They wanted to compete with IBM for the big data center business and they didn't have what it took to compete in that market either. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:14:27 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: In article <4784015D.2060400@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article <841c744b-5f3a-48b6-9c08-9dfc589948ef@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, yyyc186 writes: >> >>>On Jan 8, 5:38 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >>> >>>>And then get sued by HP if any of the code looks anything like that in VMS >>>>since the Engineers you poached had access to the VMS sources. >>>> >>> >>>That would be a court case the underdog would win. HP has both >>>demonstrated and allowed documentation to be created stating they have >>>abandoned the OpenVMS platform. >> >> >> Please provide links to that HP documentation. In any case they definitely have >> not placed OpenVMS into the public-domain ie open-sourced it. >> Hence they could and would sue. If it was someone big and powerful like >> Microsoft doing the port then HP would probably be bought off for a pittance >> but if it was anyone smaller then the porters would probably either lose the >> case very quickly or be held up in court for long enough for them to go >> bankrupt. >> >> >> Even the suspicion of not using clean-room reverse engineering in porting could >> cause problems as in the allegation of 17th January 2006 that the Free ReactOS >> contained code obtained by disassembling Microsoft Windows see >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS >> >> >> >>>Suing a company who ported it to a >>>completely different platform AMD rather than Titanic with no HP or >>>Intel components anywhere in the developed system would win the day in >>>court. >> >> >> The problem isn't with hardware components it is with software components ie >> the code which belongs to HP as the successor to Compaq and Digital. >> You can't just pinch someone's proprietary code and port it to another >> platform. You can though reverse-engineer that code and port it. But you need >> to be able to show that you have done the latter not the former otherwise you >> will face the full force of the law. >> > >You would need to use the "clean" procedure that was used to create >third party BIOS for the PC clones. This procedure requires two teams: >the first to analyze the original and determine exactly what the code to >be produced must be and do and produce a specification. > >The second team, having NEVER seen the original code, takes the >specification and writes new software. > I don't think you need go quite that far see the above link to the ReactOS case. Reverse engineering is done all the time - you just need to make sure that those writing the code haven't seen the original source. They can analyze the functionality and any public documentation on interfaces they just can't copy code. They probably also need to be a little careful with the look and feel of the user interface. From your discussion of the third party BIOS production it sounds like the first team were looking at the source code and using that to write the specification for the second team. I would have thought that a single company doing that would be acting illegally but then I'm not a Lawyer. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >It could be done but it would probably be an economic disaster! >Thirteen years of non-marketing and mismanagement have taken their toll. >.. . . I'd guess somewhere between two hundred and five hundred man >years to produce NewVMS and then who would buy it? Who would put up the >fifty million or so to pay the salarys and benefits for the developers? > There would probably be several more millions required for office >space, computer equipment, etc. > >Even before Robert Palmer, the world was not beating a path to DEC's >door to buy VMS. The world was buying Unix! It crashed a lot but it >booted real fast. . . . And Unix ran on relatively cheap hardware. > >The seeds of disaster were sown in the early 1980s! DEC could not or >would not compete with the vendors of cheap Unix workstations. . . . >They wanted to compete with IBM for the big data center business and >they didn't have what it took to compete in that market either. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:04:35 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <478439C3.AA56CC89@spam.comcast.net> gaoshan.wang@gmail.com wrote: > [snip] > If you are interested, please send me your resumes etc, we can talk > from there, don't worry about compensation stuff ( we can pay you as > much as you could imagine as long as you can delivery ) telecommunting > should be fine as well. my email address > gaoshan.wang_no_spam_please@gmail.com I notice that he OP has not returned to collect "responses". I wonder if anyone e-mailed him back directly... David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:39:48 -0600 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Building libxml2 on OpenVMS/VAX Message-ID: In article <2UxR5LiUDSYl@wvnvms>, cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) wrote: > In article > , "Andreas > W. Wylach" writes: > > On 7 Jan., 14:02, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> In article > >> , > >> "Andreas W. Wylach" writes: > >> >On 7 Jan., 11:58, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > >> >> From: "Andreas W. Wylach" > >> > >> >> > To my problem: Since 2 days I try to build the libxml2 library on my > >> >> > Vax (a VaxStation 4000/96 with > >> >> > OpenVMS 7.3 with Compaq C V6.4-005). libxml2 is an outstanding hunk of software. If you don't need a validating parser, though, also consider expat. > >> >> > CC/NAMES=(SHORTENED)/FLOAT=D_FLOAT/object=DKA300: > >> >> > [AW.LIBXML2-2_6_30.DEBUG]HTMLTR > >> >> > EE.OBJ; HTMLTREE.C > >> >> > typedef long double trio_long_double_t; > >> >> > ........^ > >> >> > %CC-I-LONGDOUBLENYI, In this declaration, type long double has the > >> >> > same > >> >> > representation as type double on this platform. > >> >> > At line number 156 in DKA300: > >> >> > [AW.LIBXML2-2_6_30]TRIODEF.H;1. > >> > >> >> So? Whether that's a real problem depends on now many bits it > >> >> really > >> >> uses for trio_long_double_t variables. Without looking at the code, I > >> >> have no idea. > >> > >> >Well, I can't tell. I've never dealed with the fp/fp_class stuff in my > >> >life so I just changed that > >> >long double to double (like it stated in the compiler message). I know > >> >it sounds naive, but > >> >I have no other clue yet. > >> > >> $ HELP CC LANGUAGE DATA_TYPES... > >> > >> float 32-bit (single-precision) floating-point number > >> double 64-bit (double-precision) floating-point number > >> long float Interchangeable with double, but usage is > >> obsolete You left out: long double 128-bit (double-precision) floating-point number which appears when I use the same help command you did with HP C V7.3-009 on OpenVMS Alpha V8.3 installed. For whatever reason, I don't think VAX C or DEC C on OpenVMS VAX ever implemented long double as an H_FLOAT, which would have been the natural thing to do (REAL*16 for you FORTRAN folks). But on 64-bit OpenVMS platforms with IEEE floating point enabled, long double does produce an X_FLOAT, which is twice as big as an ordinary double. > >> > >> Perhaps, it's just an old coding hangover from when the datum was changed > >> from long float (which this above says is obsolete usage) to double. I'd > >> remove the 'long' or, if you want, conditionalize that for the VMS build. If it's conditionalized you definitely want to conditionalize it for VAX, not VMS, seeing as long double does give a double that twice as long as an ordinary double on 64-bit OpenVMS platforms. > Just recently I finished getting libxml2-2_4_27 to build on VAX with > both DEC C and VAX C for use with VMS Mosaic. The main issue I ran > into was the need for IEEE floating point; several functions depend > on IEEE behaviors which are not available on VAX. Fortunately, I do > not think Mosiac's usage of libxml2 will be affected by the lack of > these behaviors. I can zip up what I have and put it out for FTP. > > If your application depends on the unavailable IEEE behaviors, then > you could be in for major problems. I'm not sure how much (or when) > libxml2 actually makes use of these behaviors. > > As far as D_FLOAT vs. G_FLOAT, I used G_FLOAT because it is the closest > match for libxml2's use of IEEE floating point. Agreed. You'd almost certainly be better off with G_FLOAT since its range is much closer to IEEE than D_FLOAT's is. However, you should build with the same option that was used to build whatever you'll be linking with, such as Perl or WASD. And there is nothing corresponding to IEEE exception handling, NaNs, etc. Whether that causes trouble depends entirely on what XML you end up parsing. Validating against data-oriented schemas that do range checking or enforce other numeric rules will probably cause your parser to blow up spectacularly. But if you never see such schemas or attempt to do validation you'll probably be fine. On the fp_class problem: $ help crtl fp_class CRTL fp_class Determines the class of IEEE floating-point values. This function is OpenVMS Alpha and I64 only. In other words, its absence is important, but you can't get it on VAX, or at least not unless you want to roll your own IEEE floating point in software, including standard run-time library support for same. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:30:57 GMT From: "PL" Subject: Re: Carl J. Lydick Message-ID: Yeah, I liked that disclaimer too, he once helped me out when I was stuck with something that made me blind, he could be quite polite, I think I have his answer somewhere too. ^P "Andreas W. Wylach" skrev i meddelandet news:c504ad3b-3ac0-4c4d-8337-83431c746cf3@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > On 8 Jan., 05:15, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > > yyyc186 wrote: > > > None of you can give me the answer I was looking for from him. > > > > > I'm in the process of finishing the last few chapters of "The Minimum > > > You Need to Know About SOA" and wanted to include his > > > GENTMPFILENAME.COM in the chapter where a DCL port service will be > > > receiving XML messages it dumps to files so they can be queued to ACMS > > > tasks. > > > > > Since it was posted publicly, I will add an author tag in the comments > > > and attribute it to him. It was a nice little piece of code and I > > > don't believe in re-inventing the wheel. > > > > I don't think Carl would mind as long as you give him proper credit and > > don't publish anything you haven't tested!! > > Carl was ok. Had lots of good conversations and he helped out a lot. > All one > had to do is explaining the problem/questions as best as possible > along providing > details. > > I liked his disclaimer: This is comp.os.vms , not > alt.read.my.mind. ;-))) > > Andreas W Wylach ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:31:10 -0800 (PST) From: res0o7il@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Carl J. Lydick Message-ID: <4e1b4f63-ff4f-466d-8151-2f3775d39066@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com> PL wrote: > Yeah, I liked that disclaimer too, he once helped me out when I was stuck > with something that made me blind, > he could be quite polite, I think I have his answer somewhere too. > > ^P > > "Andreas W. Wylach" skrev i meddelandet > news:c504ad3b-3ac0-4c4d-8337-83431c746cf3@l32g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > > On 8 Jan., 05:15, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > > > yyyc186 wrote: > > > > None of you can give me the answer I was looking for from him. > > > > > > > I'm in the process of finishing the last few chapters of "The Minimum > > > > You Need to Know About SOA" and wanted to include his > > > > GENTMPFILENAME.COM in the chapter where a DCL port service will be > > > > receiving XML messages it dumps to files so they can be queued to ACMS > > > > tasks. > > > > > > > Since it was posted publicly, I will add an author tag in the comments > > > > and attribute it to him. It was a nice little piece of code and I > > > > don't believe in re-inventing the wheel. > > > > > > I don't think Carl would mind as long as you give him proper credit and > > > don't publish anything you haven't tested!! > > > > Carl was ok. Had lots of good conversations and he helped out a lot. > > All one > > had to do is explaining the problem/questions as best as possible > > along providing > > details. > > > > I liked his disclaimer: This is comp.os.vms , not > > alt.read.my.mind. ;-))) > > > > Andreas W Wylach Carl and I were regular sparring partners. I'd be lying if I said we were friends, but I did respect him greatly and raised a rare glass to his memory when he passed. Rest in peace, Carl. Shane Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:22:43 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Carl J. Lydick Message-ID: In article <4e1b4f63-ff4f-466d-8151-2f3775d39066@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, res0o7il@yahoo.com writes: >{...snip...} >Carl and I were regular sparring partners. I'd be lying if I said we >were friends, but I did respect him greatly and raised a rare glass to >his memory when he passed. Rest in peace, Carl. > >Shane Smith Shane, long time no see in these parts. I almost didn't recognize you ##### #-O-O-# # L # #===# ### without your picture. :) Drop me a line when you have bit of free time. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:15:07 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: decnet setup problem Message-ID: <47843C3B.AB56CDCA@spam.comcast.net> Kenny wrote: > > Hello, > > Can anybody help me setup decnet node on Alpha server? > > I try to do that with command: " set network "decnet" / > manufacturer="compaq" /node="nodename" ..... etc ". After that on > command "show network" everything seems ok, just like I want. > Problem is that it last only till next reboot. After reboot all > decnet values are reset to default (node = class1, address=9.9 ) > > I tried also to do that with "@sys$system:net$configure.com" but it > keeps confusing me with many options that I don't understand (domain, > mop...). I simply need to set node name and denet address. > > It is Alpha ds-10, open vms V 7.3-1 and network type DNA V. > > Any help or advice is highly appreciated As Bob Kohler points out, SET NETWORK does -NOT- configure DECnet! It only configures the output from SHOW NETWORK. This info is refereshed from the actual DECnet configuration at boot time. (*Sigh*!) David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:20:08 -0500 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: Dictionay attacks on VMS (was Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ?) Message-ID: <151301c8523c$3f731080$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP> >... > It's very easy for the system manager to spot attempts at password > guessing or dictionary attacks. The system gives you plenty of notice if > you are paying any attention at all. I used to see such things two ... Unless you are running HP's TCPIP Services for OpenVMS and you have POP or IMAP enabled. If you have either of these enabled the only thing you can do to stop a dictionary attack is watch the OPERATOR.LOG and hope that you catch the attack in process since nothing seems to even log the address the attack is coming from. If someone in your company knows that you are going to be away on vacation then hope the SYSTEM password is too long and too random to guess. I hope someone in HP paid attention to JF's report of this problem. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial Hardware ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:29:52 -0000 From: "John Wallace" Subject: Re: Dictionay attacks on VMS (was Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ?) Message-ID: <13o7ub686nv655c@corp.supernews.com> "Peter Weaver" wrote in message news:151301c8523c$3f731080$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP... > >... > > It's very easy for the system manager to spot attempts at password > > guessing or dictionary attacks. The system gives you plenty of notice if > > you are paying any attention at all. I used to see such things two ... > > Unless you are running HP's TCPIP Services for OpenVMS and you have POP or > IMAP enabled. If you have either of these enabled the only thing you can do > to stop a dictionary attack is watch the OPERATOR.LOG and hope that you > catch the attack in process since nothing seems to even log the address the > attack is coming from. If someone in your company knows that you are going > to be away on vacation then hope the SYSTEM password is too long and too > random to guess. > > I hope someone in HP paid attention to JF's report of this problem. > > Peter Weaver > www.weaverconsulting.ca > CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial > Hardware > The UCX POP/IMAP routes to avoid breakin evasion just happen to be the ones which have emerged recently, does that mean they're also the only ones? How non-trivial would it be to bodge a short term fix, e.g. a user-written application to selectively monitor OPERATOR.LOG (or programmatic equivalent) as a filler-in until HP get their official fix(es) out? Regards John ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jan 2008 16:53:42 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Dictionay attacks on VMS (was Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ?) Message-ID: <0yXo0tPXnYOd@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <13o7ub686nv655c@corp.supernews.com>, "John Wallace" writes: > The UCX POP/IMAP routes to avoid breakin evasion just happen to be the ones > which have emerged recently, does that mean they're also the only ones? The best way to enforce compliance is with common code, which is what SYS$ACM provides. HP (and third party) products that do not have to run on older versions of VMS should perform their authentication by calling SYS$ACM. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:10:23 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Dictionay attacks on VMS (was Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ?) /G Message-ID: <478402DF.1060404@comcast.net> Peter Weaver wrote: >> ... >> It's very easy for the system manager to spot attempts at password >> guessing or dictionary attacks. The system gives you plenty of notice >> if you are paying any attention at all. I used to see such things two >> ... > > > Unless you are running HP's TCPIP Services for OpenVMS and you have POP > or IMAP enabled. If you have either of these enabled I've never had either enabled nor is it likely that I ever will! I don't need or want either and since nobody pays me, they can't require me to do so. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:53:18 -0600 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Leopard improves SIMH performance Message-ID: In article <757e775c-5ace-4543-a9b1-b6ad4d6c398c@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Rich Jordan wrote: > On Jan 4, 7:14 pm, "Craig A. Berry" > wrote: > > Since a number of folks here use Mac OS X, I thought I'd mention that > > after upgrading to 10.5 (aka Leopard), my simulated VAX hosted on a > > dual 2.0 GHz Power Mac G5 running OpenVMS v7.3 on SIMH v3.7-3 sped up > > by over a third. A long-running job that took just over three days > > before the upgrade took just under two days after. I did not recompile > > SIMH, so whatever made the difference is available at run time. ISTR > > that SIMH does a lot with 64-bit integers, so the increased 64-bitness > > of Leopard may be a factor. > Thanks for posting that. I've been thinking about running that on my > wife's Mac at home (dual 2.5GHz G5) to take the VS3100m76 offline (it > eats power and the Mac is always on anyway). Can you provide a rough > equivalency to a real VAX on the performance you are getting? After the Leopard upgrade I'm getting just under 7 VUPs using a very simple DCL test procedure that's been posted more than once in this forum (and reposted below). I don't know what it was before the upgrade. It's worth noting that the benefits of the host system's disk and file caching make a pure CPU comparison less than the full story. It boots OpenVMS v7.3 in 80 seconds. I've got TCP/IP Services but no DECWindows installed. $ type calculate_vups.com $! CALCULATE_VUPS: $! $ set noon $ orig_privs = f$setprv("ALTPRI") $ process_priority = f$getjpi(0,"PRIB") $ cpu_multiplier = 10 ! VAX = 10 - Alpha/AXP = 40 $ cpu_round_add = 1 ! VAX = 1 - Alpha/AXP = 9 $ cpu_round_divide = cpu_round_add + 1 $ init_counter = cpu_multiplier * 525 $ init_loop_maximum = 205 $ start_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ loop_index = 0 $ 10$: $ loop_index = loop_index + 1 $ if loop_index .ne. init_loop_maximum then goto 10$ $ end_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ init_vups = ((init_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + - cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_divide $ loop_maximum = (init_vups * init_loop_maximum) / 10 $ base_counter = (init_counter * init_vups) / 10 $ vups = 0 $ times_through_loop = 0 $ 20$: $ start_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ loop_index = 0 $ 30$: $ loop_index = loop_index + 1 $ if loop_index .ne. loop_maximum then goto 30$ $ end_cputime = f$getjpi(0,"CPUTIM") $ new_vups = ((base_counter / (end_cputime - start_cputime) + - cpu_round_add) / cpu_round_divide) * cpu_round_divide $ if new_vups .eq. vups then goto 40$ $ vups = new_vups $ times_through_loop = times_through_loop + 1 $ if times_through_loop .le. 5 then goto 20$ $ 40$: $ new_privs = f$setprv(orig_privs) $ set message /nofacility/noidentification/noseverity/notext $ ASSIGN/SYSTEM/EXEC 'vups' MACHINE_VUPS_RATING $ set message /facility/identification/severity/text $ write sys$output "Approximate System VUPs Rating : ", - vups / 10,".", vups - ((vups / 10) * 10) $ exit -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:44:24 GMT From: "Alistair J. Ross" Subject: New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Message-ID: Hi All, This is my first post to this newsgroup so please don't flame me (too much) if I've got the wrong group. I'm really excited this week because I'm a big collector of all old kit and I have, until now, never owned *any* Digital Equipment other than a crazy old line printer which went bust many years ago. I now am the proud owner of a MicroVAX 3300, and also a VAXStation 3100. Unfortunately the 3100 has no hard drive so I'll need to work out something later with that. I have therefore concentrated my efforts to the MV and noticed that the boot indicator went to 3, not 0, meaning it wasn't booting fully. I didn't have a compatible console cable, so it sat there for 4 lonely weeks unused until I could get my hands on an MMJ to RJ11 cable (which I then plugged into an RJ11 -> RS232 converter). I opened up minicom on my Linux boxen, figured out how to boot the thing at the '>>>' prompt (>>>boot dia0) and here I am - a fresh user into the world of VMS. It works! I'm amazed the hard drives still spin fresh after all these years. I've seen many MFM/RLL & SCSI drives of similar vintage die horrible deaths at less years than this. Next problem: I've been googling for a while today trying to find out if VMS has such a thing as a single user mode (like in Unix so I can circumvent the login prompt), or even a default system password. At the moment, all that greets me is the following: +�������������������������������+ | | | VAX 3300 | | | | Welcome To GSi Exel II | | | | Ashdown Garage | | | +�������������������������������+ Username: GUEST Password: User authorization failure I have no idea what GSi Exel II and Ashdown Garage are, but I'm guessing this is some sort of motd file and not some specialist shell. Can anyone point me in the right direction of a FAQ or provide suitable instructions as to a) how I might log/break in to this system and b) where I can find a VMS manual for 'Completely Hapless User'/Unix User that has no clue about VMS? I am so interested in the world of VMS & Digital, and now, finally I have my first bit of kit - I've always wanted to find out why all the VMS Admins I've spoken to in years gone by laughed at my love for UNIX! Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Ali Ross ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:58:15 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Message-ID: <08010816581546_206002CA@antinode.org> From: "Alistair J. Ross" > I now am the proud owner of a MicroVAX 3300, and also a VAXStation 3100. "VAXStation 3100" is less complete than it could be. If it doesn't say "Mxx" on the front, it's probably a 30 or 40 (the oldest). > Next problem: I've been googling for a while today trying to find out if > VMS has such a thing as a single user mode (like in Unix so I can > circumvent the login prompt), or even a default system password. Not really, but you can break in if you have physical access. > At the > moment, all that greets me is the following: > [...] > Username: GUEST > Password: > User authorization failure You're putting in "GUEST", right? > I have no idea what GSi Exel II and Ashdown Garage are, but I'm guessing > this is some sort of motd file and not some specialist shell. Most likely. (Look into SYS$WELCOME later.) > Can anyone point me in the right direction of a FAQ or provide suitable > instructions as to a) how I might log/break in to this system and b) > where I can find a VMS manual for 'Completely Hapless User'/Unix User > that has no clue about VMS? http://www.hoffmanlabs.com/vmsfaq/ It explains the break-in procedure, among other things. Eventually, you may wish to get a Hobbyist CD-ROM kit and licenses, and do a fresh installation, instead of using whatever was left by the previous owner. (See the FAQ.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:27:54 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Message-ID: <_FTgj.3$o92.1@newsfe11.lga> In article , "Alistair J. Ross" writes: > > >Hi All, > > This is my first post to this newsgroup so please don't flame me (too >much) if I've got the wrong group. > >I'm really excited this week because I'm a big collector of all old kit >and I have, until now, never owned *any* Digital Equipment other than a >crazy old line printer which went bust many years ago. > >I now am the proud owner of a MicroVAX 3300, and also a VAXStation 3100. >Unfortunately the 3100 has no hard drive so I'll need to work out >something later with that. I have therefore concentrated my efforts to >the MV and noticed that the boot indicator went to 3, not 0, meaning it >wasn't booting fully. I didn't have a compatible console cable, so it sat >there for 4 lonely weeks unused until I could get my hands on an MMJ to >RJ11 cable (which I then plugged into an RJ11 -> RS232 converter). I >opened up minicom on my Linux boxen, figured out how to boot the thing at >the '>>>' prompt (>>>boot dia0) and here I am - a fresh user into the >world of VMS. It works! I'm amazed the hard drives still spin fresh after >all these years. I've seen many MFM/RLL & SCSI drives of similar vintage >die horrible deaths at less years than this. > >Next problem: I've been googling for a while today trying to find out if >VMS has such a thing as a single user mode (like in Unix so I can >circumvent the login prompt), or even a default system password. At the >moment, all that greets me is the following: > +�������������������������������+ > | | > | VAX 3300 | > | | > | Welcome To GSi Exel II | > | | > | Ashdown Garage | > | | > +�������������������������������+ Looks like some message from the former owner of the box. >Username: GUEST >Password: >User authorization failure > > >I have no idea what GSi Exel II and Ashdown Garage are, but I'm guessing >this is some sort of motd file and not some specialist shell. > >Can anyone point me in the right direction of a FAQ or provide suitable >instructions as to a) how I might log/break in to this system and b) >where I can find a VMS manual for 'Completely Hapless User'/Unix User >that has no clue about VMS? > >I am so interested in the world of VMS & Digital, and now, finally I have >my first bit of kit - I've always wanted to find out why all the VMS >Admins I've spoken to in years gone by laughed at my love for UNIX! > >Thanks in advance for any help. Search for the OpenVMS FAQ, many bits in there about breaking in. Since you have the machine and access to the console, you can do it. Easiest way, push the little button on the MV which has a circle with a triangle inside. This should drop you to the console prompt. Enter: >>> B/1 You should eventually set a SYSBOOT> prompt. At the SYSBOOT> enter SYSBOOT> SHOW STARTUP Remember this file for use possible use later. Now, enter: SYSBOOT> SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 SYSBOOT> SET/STARTUP OPA0: and... SYSBOOT> CONTINUE This will run until you get a DCL prompt: $ At this point, things are very *unforgiving*. I usually recommend typing $ SPAWN This creates a subprocess so that if you make an error you will not be logged out immediately. at the $ after spawn: $ @SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP You should be in SYS$SYSTEM IIRC, if not: $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM Then... $ MCR AUTHORIZE UAF> MODIFY SYSTEM/PASSWORD=newpassword/NOPWDEXP UAF> EXIT Now you can reboot and you should be able to get into the system account. From that point, you can do most anything. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:25:05 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Message-ID: <47840651.3050206@comcast.net> Alistair J. Ross wrote: > Hi All, > > This is my first post to this newsgroup so please don't flame me (too > much) if I've got the wrong group. > > I'm really excited this week because I'm a big collector of all old kit > and I have, until now, never owned *any* Digital Equipment other than a > crazy old line printer which went bust many years ago. > > I now am the proud owner of a MicroVAX 3300, and also a VAXStation 3100. > Unfortunately the 3100 has no hard drive so I'll need to work out > something later with that. I have therefore concentrated my efforts to > the MV and noticed that the boot indicator went to 3, not 0, meaning it > wasn't booting fully. I didn't have a compatible console cable, so it sat > there for 4 lonely weeks unused until I could get my hands on an MMJ to > RJ11 cable (which I then plugged into an RJ11 -> RS232 converter). I > opened up minicom on my Linux boxen, figured out how to boot the thing at > the '>>>' prompt (>>>boot dia0) and here I am - a fresh user into the > world of VMS. It works! I'm amazed the hard drives still spin fresh after > all these years. I've seen many MFM/RLL & SCSI drives of similar vintage > die horrible deaths at less years than this. > > Next problem: I've been googling for a while today trying to find out if > VMS has such a thing as a single user mode (like in Unix so I can > circumvent the login prompt), or even a default system password. At the > moment, all that greets me is the following: > +�������������������������������+ > | | > | VAX 3300 | > | | > | Welcome To GSi Exel II | > | | > | Ashdown Garage | > | | > +�������������������������������+ > > > Username: GUEST > Password: > User authorization failure > > > I have no idea what GSi Exel II and Ashdown Garage are, but I'm guessing > this is some sort of motd file and not some specialist shell. > > Can anyone point me in the right direction of a FAQ or provide suitable > instructions as to a) how I might log/break in to this system and b) > where I can find a VMS manual for 'Completely Hapless User'/Unix User > that has no clue about VMS? > > I am so interested in the world of VMS & Digital, and now, finally I have > my first bit of kit - I've always wanted to find out why all the VMS > Admins I've spoken to in years gone by laughed at my love for UNIX! > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > Regards, > > Ali Ross The breakin procedure is documented. You boot with the flags to stop in SYSBOOT. I'm not certain I recall all the details but you do a "SET STARTUP OPA0:" and continue. The system finishes booting and leaves the system console open with privileges available. You run authorize, give yourself a privileged account and/or set the SYSTEM password and the system is yours. I's been many years since I last needed to do this. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:41:24 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: New Member to newsgroup: Hi and All about VMS on MV 3300 Message-ID: <4784182a$0$90276$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Steven M. Schweda wrote: > From: "Alistair J. Ross" >> Next problem: I've been googling for a while today trying to find out if >> VMS has such a thing as a single user mode (like in Unix so I can >> circumvent the login prompt), or even a default system password. > > Not really, but you can break in if you have physical access. Conversational boot & startup minimum is close. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:47:29 -0600 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Perl issues? (was Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo) Message-ID: In article , etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Perl: > I was attempting to upgrade from VMS v7.3 on Alpha to VMS v8.3. > Using the Perl v5.8.6 build on the HP website, the VMS::Mail module > (from David North IIRC) wouldn't build. There were errors at compile > time relating to the version of Perl it would run under (it was > hardcoded to 5.6 and needed the source editing to put 5.8 in there > instead). Details! > It'd be easier for me if the Mail module was included in the Perl > build! :o( Any problems you have building the extension against an installed Perl would almost certainly also occur when simply inserting the extension into the main Perl build process. I haven't built VMS::Mail myself in quite awhile, but I believe it's included in the Perl 5.8.4 kit here: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware70/perl/ I should know, since I built it, but there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then and I'm overdue to put together a new kit. > Bernd Ulmann did suggest doing my own Perl build, but I'm a little > nervous about doing that. It's not that tough and there is help available. It's currently the only way to get Perl 5.10.0, with its large file, hard link, symlink, and other recent goodness. But there's also no urgent reason to go that route if you have a lot based on the HP 5.8.6 kit. While technical content on c.o.v is welcome, albeit a bit shocking at this point, you may also want to consider the low-volume and more targeted mailing list specifically for Perl on VMS issues. Just send any old message to vmsperl-subscribe AT perl DOT org. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:58:21 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ? Message-ID: <4783f26b$0$15789$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > view of these generated passwords ? How safe are they > against hacking/probing/directory-attacs ? Most internet attempts tend to use obvious passwords. But from a directory attack itself where one attempts all possible permutations, I would say that the are no different. The syetem gererated passwords require the user write them down on a post-it note that is permanently attached to their monitor. In the early days of ATMs, Banks many banks had chosen to not pay for the ability to have user generated passwords for ATM cards. Most changed rather quickly when people would be forced to write their pin down on the back of their card. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:17:54 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Security level of SET PASS /GENERATE ? Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > The syetem gererated passwords require the user write them down on a > post-it note that is permanently attached to their monitor. Realy ??? Well, I *did* browse the docs, so I must have missed that... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:11:23 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: SOT: (somewhat off topic) driver for LK250 keyboard Message-ID: <47843B5B.8A040EF3@spam.comcast.net> VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article <4781892B.F317A192@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > > > [snip] > >It's taken me a while to get used to PC keyboards with Reflection, but > >once you get it, its not so bad. Like VAXman, I must remember that EDT's > >"DEL CHAR" key is the ALT+KP+ key. > > I didn't know that. I don't like the layout nor the feel of the IBM style > keyboards; thus, I have not used many of them not used them for any length > of time. In most newer Reflection versions, Setup -> Keyboard Map displays graphic representations of the PC and LK keyboards. Use your mouse to "press" an LK key and see the PC equivalent. Conversely, click ALT on the PC keybaord graphic, and notice how the highlights change. Now, Click the KP+ key on the PC keyboard graphic and see which LK key it corresponds to, David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.017 ************************