INFO-VAX Thu, 14 Feb 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 90 Contents: Adobes's Flex FABridge example Re: Adobes's Flex FABridge example An update for PHP on VMS [was:Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS] Re: An update for PHP on VMS [was:Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on Re: An update for PHP on VMS [was:Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Re: DIBOL to Re: DIBOL to Re: DIBOL to Re: DIBOL to Re: DIBOL to Re: Dilbert Does Virtualization Re: Dilbert Does Virtualization Re: Dilbert Does Virtualization Re: Dilbert Does Virtualization RE: FW: VMS license fees? HP OpenVMS Tele-Marketing?!? Re: HP OpenVMS Tele-Marketing?!? Q: OPCOM and OPC$xyzzy logicals Re: Q: OPCOM and OPC$xyzzy logicals Re: SPAM detection for freeware MX 4.2 Re: SPAM detection for freeware MX 4.2 Re: Testing new rewired "cable adapters" for lights-out console use Re: Testing new rewired "cable adapters" for lights-out console use Re: Testing new rewired "cable adapters" for lights-out console use Urgently need VAX UCX V4.2 Re: Urgently need VAX UCX V4.2 Re: Urgently need VAX UCX V4.2 Re: VEST Re: VMS Audio Update on your iPOD (or whatever player you have) Re: VMS Audio Update on your iPOD (or whatever player you have) Re: VMS Audio Update on your iPOD (or whatever player you have) Re: VMS license fees? Re: VMSINSTAL Message Re: Xerox 7760 on DCPS? Re: Xerox 7760 on DCPS? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:47:58 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Adobes's Flex FABridge example Message-ID: Hi, For those who wish to know more about FABridge, I suggest you run the following example to see how easy it is to get the full benefits of Flash and Flex-Charting without having to know almost anything about ActionScript: - http://flexapps.macromedia.com/labs/fabridge/samples/FABridgeSample.html If JavaScript is what your team are used to then that's all you have to know. For more details on FABridge see: - http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Flex-Ajax_Bridge On the subject of the various server-options that can back-end all of these lovely Adobe offerings, I wondering if anyone else has stumbled accross the claim that Flex Data Services promises to keep all client screens in synchronization with all database updates from any client(s)! I, for one, remain sceptical and am curious as to what algorithms they use and if they're more sophisticated than the usual polling that one sees so much of here and on the web in general? Once again, I'd like to see an example of a seperate thread in the browser instantiated by a Java Applet listening for UDP broadcast messages on a known port and the using JSObject to push the results (perhaps an OPCOM message) through to Javascript for presentation! I for one see that as functionality worth investing in - and it has absolutely nothing to to with Tier3. (OK, you could use Tier3 to register the clients desire to receive said messages (unfortunately applets appear not to be too keen on Multicast messages) but what I'm talking about is a standard VMS detached process/daemon that, upon, receiving a trigger from a database or a mailbox message, distributes the results to all subscribed clients.) I like it!!! Cheers Richard Maher PS. As JFP hasn't provided any clues as to the start date for the inspiration and timing ow his wonderful Flex VMS Monitor example I went looking for my old SVG-Silverlight->FAbridge pilgrimage and found this circa Oct 16th: - http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/301ea939417d66d5/58ba941e24aa6bff A couple of interesting lines from DEC 2nd:- > Why isn't a Flex Charting version of "$monitor system" downloadable from the > HP Web site? (Use INETd servers if they're too pig-headed to use Tier3) Why was it left to JFP to do this? Isn't looking after PHP and MySQL on VMS enough? Oct '07 to Feb '08 - God I'm slack - but then I can tell you a lot more now about Linux SOAP and Eclipse (I think today's WSDL effort was "Duplicate body parts" :-) "Richard Maher" wrote in message news:fonts8$m0u$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au... > Hi Mark, > > > Ok, you've mentioned Silverlight. Not trying to teach you how to suck > > eggs (not knowing myself) but you must have considered how a .NET > > Framework front-end might provide an infrastructure for all that Tier3 > > offers? Arguably it has a greater installed and developer base than > > Java. There are also open-source compatibility environments available > > and in-development. And it answers that ubiquitous question, "Is is > > supported on Win32?" Just my AU$0.05 FWIW. > > Now I'm dissappointed :-( If someone with your abilities, attention to > detail, and seeming fathomless desire to read anything and everything, > cannot understand one of the basic tenets of the Tier3 architecture then the > documentation must be in a sorry shape indeeed. Please (re)read chapter 2 in > the Tier3 Client/Server Development manual > http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/tier3_031.pdf and get back to me. I > think the key words are *No client-specific software required!*. > > If you want to use .NET then go crazy! Anyone, and everyone, can talk to > Tier3 application servers using standard TCP/IP Sockets (or DECnet > interface) with whatever tools they require or desire. ActiveX controls? I > love it! - Java Sockets? Can't get enough of it! C+ BSD Sockets? Mad for it! > VMS System Services? I'm over the moon! > > I ( with heaps of help from the likes of the very talented Bojan Nemec's and > Arne's of the world) provided a Java Applet example because I thought it > might be useful for VMS sites to be able to automatically distribute their > client GUI application over the web at the click of a button. No more > cumbersome client-software rollouts and upgrades. (As well as the usual > Tier3 benefits of complete integration with the VMS security model, > transparent multi-threading, and TP load-balancing) Silly me, hey? > > Now, the Flex SDK has rudimentary Socket support but as I don't see Adobe > ever dropping the requirement for a JRE anytime real soon, I see no problem > with using the Java code (or something like it) that you'll also find in the > t2$examples directory. > > I *really, really, really* want to provide an Asynchronous Socket client > example using JSObject (maybe tick over a stock-price, or perhaps an OPCOM > message) and I *really, really, really* want to incorporate the Flex-Ajax > Bridge to deliver Flex Charting examples, but with absolutely bugger-all > help from HP/VMS (as usual) it's having to go on the back-burner as I am > fortunate enough to be involved with a Linux/Java/SOAP development that with > be talking to one of the main travel CRSs. (And of course an IA64 version > if HP would sell me an Itanium box at the same price they are forcing them > on others) > > Anyway, gotta go. . . > > Cheers Richard Maher > > PS. WRT Silverlight, please search this group for why I (FWIW) think it is > definitely *not* the way to go. Microsoft for one (and I'm sure there's > more) know that HTTP is a poorly performing, insecure, piece of shit when it > comes to an application middleware protocol, and now with Silverlight's "I > can't believe it's not butter (or AJAX in this case)" perhaps they'll be > able to deliver a high-performance propritary solution under the covers > after the initial handshake. > > On Jan 12, 12:07 pm, Mark Daniel wrote: > > Richard Maher wrote: > > > Hi Mark, > > > > >>Hmmm. Perhaps > > > > >> Daughter-of-Tier3 - DoT3. > > > > >>or > > > > >> Tier3 Services Integration Toolkit - T3SIT > > > > >>:-) > > > > >>Something to keep the bloatware where it belongs - on *x - and leave VMS > > >>an unsullied, peer-to-peer, binary interaction? > > > > >>Keep suggesting this sort of heterodox technology and you'll end up > > >>finding yourself excommunicated from the Exclusive 3GL Brethren. > > > > > My God, I'm transparent! How long has this been going on? > > > > > Look, at the end of the day, I can't believe I'm having to defend the > > > concept of "logging-on" to some people! Or the fact that having a 1:M > > > relationship between Application Server Connections and Messages > Exchanged > > > is also a good thing. (Here's an idea for an additional stats field for > > > WASD; "HTTP 1.1 requests per connection". > > > > HTTPd ...uma.es:80 > > Server Statistics (HTTPe:80) > > Saturday, 12-JAN-2008 03:59:50 > > 8< snip 8< > > Request Processing > > ------------------ > > 8< snip 8< > > Connection Request HTTP > > ---------- ------- ---- > > Total: 1956677 Total: 7625722 1.1: 5953591 (84%) > > Current: 7 Current: 1 1.0: 1133162 (16%) > > Peak: 735 Peak: 586 0.9: 91 (0%) > > 8< snip 8< > > Persistent /Total: 5219968 > > /Max: 509 > > Pipeline /Total: 12971 > > /Max: 60 > > 8< snip 8< > > > > > (Internet bloody Explorer gives me > > > 3 connections to receive a single Applet :-( bizarre)) > > > The browser *is* the GUI (maybe even the OS?) but that does not mandate > a > > > http web-server being the application middleware back-bone! Expedient, > > > ubiquitous, "easy" - yes, but "right" no way! (Leaving to one side > security > > > and high-performance for the moment) > > > > > Just watch what Microsoft is doing with SilverLight and control of > server > > > interaction, and also Adobe, Oracle, IBM and BEA. Web-Servers are great > at > > > serving up files and pimping for applications, but once the > introductions > > > have been made, you should put the Sow's ear down and start sowing with > > > silk! > > > > Ok, you've mentioned Silverlight. Not trying to teach you how to suck > > eggs (not knowing myself) but you must have considered how a .NET > > Framework front-end might provide an infrastructure for all that Tier3 > > offers? Arguably it has a greater installed and developer base than > > Java. There are also open-source compatibility environments available > > and in-development. And it answers that ubiquitous question, "Is is > > supported on Win32?" Just my AU$0.05 FWIW. > > > > > Whether you choose to call it a Portal, a Consolidator, or a Broker, > your > > > application server *is* something that you'll log-on and maintain a > > > connection to. I just see no reason why that Application Server isn't > VMS. > > > VMS has the security, reliability, disaster tolerence, and clustering > > > superiority that could give it the-edge in the server arena; it's just a > > > shame it's not happening (and hasn't been for over 10 years :-() Call me > > > crazy, but if Tier3 can give you Context-Rich, Connection-Oriented, > > > client-interaction coupled with Transparent Load-Balancing and Network > > > Communication, and Integrated VMS Authentication on the server-side, > then I > > > also think that's a good thing! All any Application Server that you > write > > > (in any 3GL) will consist of is 6 User Action Routines built into a > > > Shareable Image - That's it! No aditional privileges reqd, your > server(s) > > > run a a VMS detached process under the username that you select, a > Persona > > > matching the client's credentials is made available to your 3GL routines > in > > > order to aid in access control, and full VMS Debugger faciliities are at > > > your disposal. Add to that the fact that each Application can be tuned > and > > > configured independantly by your System Manager, and it's all gravy!!! > > > > > Anyway, you and the cast of thousands at the IMM team are free to persue > VMS > > > Middle Management's "Year Zero" program and send all the corrupt legacy > > > 3GL/DCL/SystemService/Macro coders out of the decadent cities and into > the > > > pure, unsullied, Java-OO-and-http paddy-fields. Sooner or later those > > > wankers have to realize that it's the revenue that the cities generate > > > that's keeping them, and VMS, afloat? Sadly, by that stage, I suspect > we'll > > > all be lying in those paddy fields with plastic bags over our heads :-( > > > > >>(suggested in the Spirit of good humour - and making a *little* fun of > > >>your sometime glossolalia Richard :-) > > > > > I've found it best to err on the side of caution when it comes to > slagging > > > people off with your reckless throw away lines :-) A bit of empathy > never > > > hurt anyone you know. I'm mean next you'll be saying something like > > > "Sachin's (pick a close relative)'s an Untouchable"; and where will it > all > > > end then eh? > > > > > Cheers Richard Maher > > > > > PS. I would have sworn that "glossolalia" was a word you just made up; > and > > > yet how appropriate, humorous, and still cutting on so many levels. > > > > High praise indeed! Received with due humility. ;-) > > > > > I suggest you drink more and read less :-) > > > > Sage advice at the end of my annual leave! Prosit!! > > > > > > > > > "Mark Daniel" wrote in message > > >news:13ob3863rj19iaf@corp.supernews.com... > > 8< snip 8< > > >>Credulity kills. > > >>[Carl Sagan; The Demon-Haunted World] > > > > -- > > The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion or in > > politics, but it is not the path to knowledge, and there's no place for > > it in the endeavor of science. We do not know beforehand where > > fundamental insights will arise from about our mysterious and lovely > > solar system. The history of our study of our solar system shows us > > clearly that accepted and conventional ideas are often wrong, and that > > fundamental insights can arise from the most unexpected sources. > > [Carl Sagan; quotation from the Cosmos television series] > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:57:16 -0800 (PST) From: palm123 Subject: Re: Adobes's Flex FABridge example Message-ID: >>>Why was it left to JFP to do this? Isn't looking after PHP and MySQL on VMS enough? JFP supports Python and Mysql, not PHP. It is a pity that nobody at HP cares about PHP, that a recent version has not been released... Regards ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:32:16 -0800 (PST) From: Grant Croker Subject: An update for PHP on VMS [was:Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS] Message-ID: <06950337-b93b-420d-8eda-9f72486b8002@d68g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Dec 17 2007, 6:34 pm, Grant Croker wrote: > Hi, > > I have over the last year or so tried to build thePHPsource provided > by HP[1] on OpenVMS. The driver for this is a client request to have > thePHPIngres extension[2] built on the same platform. Unfortunately > I have encountered problems buildingPHPusing the supplied source. > Whilst I realize the source code has been provided as-is and "The save > sets do not include complete build procedures...", I was wondering if > any brave soul had managed to buildPHPon their VMS system? > > regards > > grant > > [1]http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html > [2]http://pecl.php.net/ingres For those of you interested in PHP on VMS I have some information that might be of interest. HP will be releasing an ECO kit based on the current code that brings in some missing internal functions (required for building PHP extensions on VMS). This update is scheduled for April this year. There are also plans to bring PHP 5 support to VMS towards the end of this year, version 5.2.5 was mentioned to me but this could change depending on the latest PHP release available. regards grant -- Grant Croker - Software Engineer - http://ingres.com The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. -- (Terry Pratchett, Diggers) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:49:21 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: An update for PHP on VMS [was:Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on Message-ID: <13r91k8lm5j828b@corp.supernews.com> Grant Croker wrote: > On Dec 17 2007, 6:34 pm, Grant Croker wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>I have over the last year or so tried to build thePHPsource provided >>by HP[1] on OpenVMS. The driver for this is a client request to have >>thePHPIngres extension[2] built on the same platform. Unfortunately >>I have encountered problems buildingPHPusing the supplied source. >>Whilst I realize the source code has been provided as-is and "The save >>sets do not include complete build procedures...", I was wondering if >>any brave soul had managed to buildPHPon their VMS system? >> >>regards >> >>grant >> >>[1]http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html >>[2]http://pecl.php.net/ingres > > > For those of you interested in PHP on VMS I have some information that > might be of interest. HP will be releasing an ECO kit based on the > current code that brings in some missing internal functions (required > for building PHP extensions on VMS). This update is scheduled for Excellent (for PHP leveraging sites). Thanks Grant. > April this year. There are also plans to bring PHP 5 support to VMS > towards the end of this year, version 5.2.5 was mentioned to me but > this could change depending on the latest PHP release available. > > regards > > grant > -- > Grant Croker - Software Engineer - http://ingres.com > The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will > insist > on coming along and trying to put things in it. > -- (Terry Pratchett, Diggers) This *might* (I don't 'know' as such) be indicative of HP being sufficiently responsive to end-users. I do know there have been a number of vocal advocates for PHP effort in Europe also over the past twelve months or so. FWIW I still think it would be better for PHP on VMS if it's development and support was in the hands of the community; the enormous effort notwithstanding. -- Over the centuries, we've moved on from Scripture to accumulate precepts of ethical, legal and moral philosophy. We've evolved a liberal consensus of what we regard as underpinnings of decent society, such as the idea that we don't approve of slavery or discrimination on the grounds of race or sex, that we respect free speech and the rights of the individual. All of these things that have become second nature to our morals today owe very little to religion, and mostly have been won in opposition to the teeth of religion. [Richard Dawkins; quoted in Natalie Angier, "Confessions of a Lonely Atheist," New York Times Magazine] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:50:42 -0500 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: An update for PHP on VMS [was:Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on Message-ID: <7dd80f60802140850v6d45695dg384bcfa420a4d2f8@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Grant Croker wrote: > For those of you interested in PHP on VMS I have some information that > might be of interest. HP will be releasing an ECO kit based on the > current code that brings in some missing internal functions (required > for building PHP extensions on VMS). This update is scheduled for > April this year. There are also plans to bring PHP 5 support to VMS > towards the end of this year, version 5.2.5 was mentioned to me but > this could change depending on the latest PHP release available. > This is great news. I hope it comes to pass sooner rather than later. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:38:38 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Message-ID: On Dec 18 2007, 7:46=A0am, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <7ea7c2ce-9f2b-4492-a30d-a10315e88...@18g2000hsf.googlegroups.c= om>, > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Rob writes: > > > > > > > On Dec 17, 5:34 pm, Grant Croker wrote: > >> Hi, > > >> I have over the last year or so tried to build the PHP source provided > >> by HP[1] on OpenVMS. The driver for this is a client request to have > >> the PHP Ingres extension[2] built on the same platform. Unfortunately > >> I have encountered problems building PHP using the supplied source. > >> Whilst I realize the source code has been provided as-is and "The save > >> sets do not include complete build procedures...", I was wondering if > >> any brave soul had managed to build PHP on their VMS system? > > >> regards > > >> grant > > >> [1]http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.ht= ml > >> [2]http://pecl.php.net/ingres > > > Unfortunately, the situation is a little worse than that. > > > Some of the 'supported' and compiled code released by HP doesn't work, > > such as SSL (I have a patch for this now). > > > I agree with Mark, in that it would be nice to have someone take this > > role. The reality is that it's very unlikely that someone would do > > this of their own free will. > > > I for one, would be happy to pay a fixed fee each year for someone to > > be employed to keep VMS PHP up to date. If enough like-minded people > > got on board, it might just be enough to employ someone. > > > Having said that, I think HP should really be supporting PHP to a much > > higher level. There's an awful lot of talk about PHP5 at the moment, > > including all of the new OOP and Classes revisions. I can only see PHP > > growing as a business language. > > Considering the security model (or lack thereof) of PHP one can only > hope you are wrong. =A0I have had our web server attacked via PHP in > the past and I was just notified by the University's Network Security > Guru that a concentrated attack of .edu's using PHP is currently underway > and I should keep an eye on my web server. =A0Perl was bad but PHP is much= , > much worse. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0| =A0de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. = =A0Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu =A0 =A0 | =A0and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.= > University of Scranton =A0 | > Scranton, Pennsylvania =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 #include = =A0- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - why not just use dibol for scripts and that would eliminate those hacks ... :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:34:51 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: Compiling PHP and/or any PHP Extension on VMS Message-ID: <13r90p392fspf96@corp.supernews.com> ultradwc@gmail.com wrote: > On Dec 18 2007, 7:46 am, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >>In article <7ea7c2ce-9f2b-4492-a30d-a10315e88...@18g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, >> Rob writes: >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>On Dec 17, 5:34 pm, Grant Croker wrote: >>> >>>>Hi, >> >>>>I have over the last year or so tried to build the PHP source provided >>>>by HP[1] on OpenVMS. The driver for this is a client request to have >>>>the PHP Ingres extension[2] built on the same platform. Unfortunately >>>>I have encountered problems building PHP using the supplied source. >>>>Whilst I realize the source code has been provided as-is and "The save >>>>sets do not include complete build procedures...", I was wondering if >>>>any brave soul had managed to build PHP on their VMS system? >> >>>>regards >> >>>>grant >> >>>>[1]http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_source.html >>>>[2]http://pecl.php.net/ingres >> >>>Unfortunately, the situation is a little worse than that. >> >>>Some of the 'supported' and compiled code released by HP doesn't work, >>>such as SSL (I have a patch for this now). >> >>>I agree with Mark, in that it would be nice to have someone take this >>>role. The reality is that it's very unlikely that someone would do >>>this of their own free will. >> >>>I for one, would be happy to pay a fixed fee each year for someone to >>>be employed to keep VMS PHP up to date. If enough like-minded people >>>got on board, it might just be enough to employ someone. >> >>>Having said that, I think HP should really be supporting PHP to a much >>>higher level. There's an awful lot of talk about PHP5 at the moment, >>>including all of the new OOP and Classes revisions. I can only see PHP >>>growing as a business language. >> >>Considering the security model (or lack thereof) of PHP one can only >>hope you are wrong. I have had our web server attacked via PHP in >>the past and I was just notified by the University's Network Security >>Guru that a concentrated attack of .edu's using PHP is currently underway >>and I should keep an eye on my web server. Perl was bad but PHP is much, >>much worse. >> >>bill >> >>-- >>Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >>b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >>University of Scranton | >>Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include - Hide quoted text - >> >>- Show quoted text - > > > why not just use dibol for scripts and that would > eliminate those hacks ... :) Don't know how many sites would be interested in producing the likes of http://www.uma.es/ and all it portals to using PIC A(4)9(5)X(7) though it could be done. I have seen text editors written in Fortran (at the risk of starting a mine's bigger than your's thread). Tools appropriate to the task. -- Not a single one of your ancestors died young. They all copulated at least once. [Richard Dawkins; The New Yorker, "Richard Dawkins's Evolution"] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:21:20 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: DIBOL to Message-ID: <5e64910e-de1f-4a5b-ab38-cd3b0678c5ae@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Feb 14, 1:49=A0am, Tad Winters wrote: > ultra...@gmail.com wrote innews:918112b7-97c1-452a-9585-1e11e2a9589d@s13g2= 000prd.googlegroups.com: > > > > > > > On Feb 13, 7:49=A0pm, Tad Winters > > wrote: > >> Doug Phillips wrote > >> innews:eebcffae-f4a5-4df2-b84e-7a213c405caf@s12g2000prg.googlegroups > >> .com: > > >> =A0[..snip..] > > >> > I've become so accustomed to the power of DBL that using any > >> > other language for business apps seems painful, so I guess I am a > >> > bit biased. 8^O > > >> So you're still coding in DBL? =A0If I could find some more companies > >> in my area in need of someone to maintain their DBL code, I'd be > >> pretty happy. =A0 The 2 companies I do occasional work for right now > >> just ask for minor changes or minor new features. =A0The last "large" > >> projects were implementing faxing of invoices (a failure since they > >> counted on using a VOIP line), emailing invoices (CSV file created > >> and transferred to a *nix box at an ISP to be converted to PDF), > >> and parsing a tab delimited file, received via ftp from an ISP > >> hosted web server, into an order. > > > goldfax and dibol work together quite well ... T1s fail as well as > > other > > IP based solutions, but good old copper lines are solid for fax > > uptime ... > > I suggested looking at other faxing software before the project > started, but the lead said he wanted to stick with what he'd used > before. > > > why not run their own web server? =A0purveyor/wasd and dibol/dcl as > > script languages work terrific ... > > The system is already overloaded. > > > txt2pdf runs under perl on vms ... they could create their own pdfs > > on vms and send them out as attachments with pmdf ... and vms > > makes the perfect mail server with precisemail antispam and sophos > > antivirus along with Mark Daniels soymail webmail freeware ... > > I looked into txt2pdf and wanted to use it, but I couldn't get them to > make the necessary changes with their ISP, i.e. MX record for their IP > address, DNS IP addresses for the VMS system to do lookups for sending > email and preferably letting the VMS system do zone transfers (to be a > secondary.) > PMDF would be more software on an already overloaded system, more > money, and would require them to open port 25 on their firewall. =A0Since > they're managing the firewall themselves, I don't think I could get > them to do it. =A0Also, anti-spam would be more load and more money. > > > sounds like they need to hire a dibol/vms person full time to > > put everything under their own roof ... letting your business > > be run by other companies is a bad situation ... > > Once again, more money. =A0Someone else mentioned they must not be > spending enough, based on what their revenues must be for having 150 > concurrent users. =A0I don't know what their revenues are, though I could > look, since I have access to their system, but it's not my business. =A0 > If I really need to know, I'll ask. =A0If it's only to tell them they're > not spending enough, then it's just as easy to tell them what is called > for in the industry. > > > > > vms does not get viruses or trojans or hacked either ... > > they are on the perfect os to do everything in house > > inexpensively ... why are they not taking advantage > > of it ...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - put pmdf on a separate DS10L ... they only cost $200 plus memory and disks from island ... a ds10l is cheap and would make a great mailserver or webserver ... you do not have to run everything on one system ... alphas are cheap enough to load balance with multiple systems ... ds20e systems were on ebay for $800 last year ... for $1500 you could have bought another 667mhz cpu card and 4gb mem ... just last week there was an es40 with 4 833mhz cpus for only $3000 ... can't they afford $200 for another alpha? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:30:07 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: DIBOL to Message-ID: <799880cc-0955-49f4-a0cb-0dfe3f33543f@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com> On Feb 14, 1:49=A0am, Tad Winters wrote: > ultra...@gmail.com wrote innews:918112b7-97c1-452a-9585-1e11e2a9589d@s13g2= 000prd.googlegroups.com: > > > > > > > On Feb 13, 7:49=A0pm, Tad Winters > > wrote: > >> Doug Phillips wrote > >> innews:eebcffae-f4a5-4df2-b84e-7a213c405caf@s12g2000prg.googlegroups > >> .com: > > >> =A0[..snip..] > > >> > I've become so accustomed to the power of DBL that using any > >> > other language for business apps seems painful, so I guess I am a > >> > bit biased. 8^O > > >> So you're still coding in DBL? =A0If I could find some more companies > >> in my area in need of someone to maintain their DBL code, I'd be > >> pretty happy. =A0 The 2 companies I do occasional work for right now > >> just ask for minor changes or minor new features. =A0The last "large" > >> projects were implementing faxing of invoices (a failure since they > >> counted on using a VOIP line), emailing invoices (CSV file created > >> and transferred to a *nix box at an ISP to be converted to PDF), > >> and parsing a tab delimited file, received via ftp from an ISP > >> hosted web server, into an order. > > > goldfax and dibol work together quite well ... T1s fail as well as > > other > > IP based solutions, but good old copper lines are solid for fax > > uptime ... > > I suggested looking at other faxing software before the project > started, but the lead said he wanted to stick with what he'd used > before. > > > why not run their own web server? =A0purveyor/wasd and dibol/dcl as > > script languages work terrific ... > > The system is already overloaded. > > > txt2pdf runs under perl on vms ... they could create their own pdfs > > on vms and send them out as attachments with pmdf ... and vms > > makes the perfect mail server with precisemail antispam and sophos > > antivirus along with Mark Daniels soymail webmail freeware ... > > I looked into txt2pdf and wanted to use it, but I couldn't get them to > make the necessary changes with their ISP, i.e. MX record for their IP > address, DNS IP addresses for the VMS system to do lookups for sending > email and preferably letting the VMS system do zone transfers (to be a > secondary.) > PMDF would be more software on an already overloaded system, more > money, and would require them to open port 25 on their firewall. =A0Since > they're managing the firewall themselves, I don't think I could get > them to do it. =A0Also, anti-spam would be more load and more money. > > > sounds like they need to hire a dibol/vms person full time to > > put everything under their own roof ... letting your business > > be run by other companies is a bad situation ... > > Once again, more money. =A0Someone else mentioned they must not be > spending enough, based on what their revenues must be for having 150 > concurrent users. =A0I don't know what their revenues are, though I could > look, since I have access to their system, but it's not my business. =A0 > If I really need to know, I'll ask. =A0If it's only to tell them they're > not spending enough, then it's just as easy to tell them what is called > for in the industry. > > > > > vms does not get viruses or trojans or hacked either ... > > they are on the perfect os to do everything in house > > inexpensively ... why are they not taking advantage > > of it ...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - why have IP and be afraid of using it? have they ever heard of internal networks? vms doesn't get viruses or trojans or hacked when properly configured ... they are not getting the most out of their vms investment ... how are these guys even in business if they are afraid to use IP? tell them just to go back to phones and paper and just manually fax stufff ... unbelievable ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:38:57 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: DIBOL to Message-ID: <3806db2b-9c50-43e6-9858-c8ceaaf68061@a75g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Feb 14, 1:49=A0am, Tad Winters wrote: > ultra...@gmail.com wrote innews:918112b7-97c1-452a-9585-1e11e2a9589d@s13g2= 000prd.googlegroups.com: > > > > > > > On Feb 13, 7:49=A0pm, Tad Winters > > wrote: > >> Doug Phillips wrote > >> innews:eebcffae-f4a5-4df2-b84e-7a213c405caf@s12g2000prg.googlegroups > >> .com: > > >> =A0[..snip..] > > >> > I've become so accustomed to the power of DBL that using any > >> > other language for business apps seems painful, so I guess I am a > >> > bit biased. 8^O > > >> So you're still coding in DBL? =A0If I could find some more companies > >> in my area in need of someone to maintain their DBL code, I'd be > >> pretty happy. =A0 The 2 companies I do occasional work for right now > >> just ask for minor changes or minor new features. =A0The last "large" > >> projects were implementing faxing of invoices (a failure since they > >> counted on using a VOIP line), emailing invoices (CSV file created > >> and transferred to a *nix box at an ISP to be converted to PDF), > >> and parsing a tab delimited file, received via ftp from an ISP > >> hosted web server, into an order. > > > goldfax and dibol work together quite well ... T1s fail as well as > > other > > IP based solutions, but good old copper lines are solid for fax > > uptime ... > > I suggested looking at other faxing software before the project > started, but the lead said he wanted to stick with what he'd used > before. > > > why not run their own web server? =A0purveyor/wasd and dibol/dcl as > > script languages work terrific ... > > The system is already overloaded. > > > txt2pdf runs under perl on vms ... they could create their own pdfs > > on vms and send them out as attachments with pmdf ... and vms > > makes the perfect mail server with precisemail antispam and sophos > > antivirus along with Mark Daniels soymail webmail freeware ... > > I looked into txt2pdf and wanted to use it, but I couldn't get them to > make the necessary changes with their ISP, i.e. MX record for their IP > address, DNS IP addresses for the VMS system to do lookups for sending > email and preferably letting the VMS system do zone transfers (to be a > secondary.) > PMDF would be more software on an already overloaded system, more > money, and would require them to open port 25 on their firewall. =A0Since > they're managing the firewall themselves, I don't think I could get > them to do it. =A0Also, anti-spam would be more load and more money. > > > sounds like they need to hire a dibol/vms person full time to > > put everything under their own roof ... letting your business > > be run by other companies is a bad situation ... > > Once again, more money. =A0Someone else mentioned they must not be > spending enough, based on what their revenues must be for having 150 > concurrent users. =A0I don't know what their revenues are, though I could > look, since I have access to their system, but it's not my business. =A0 > If I really need to know, I'll ask. =A0If it's only to tell them they're > not spending enough, then it's just as easy to tell them what is called > for in the industry. > > > > > vms does not get viruses or trojans or hacked either ... > > they are on the perfect os to do everything in house > > inexpensively ... why are they not taking advantage > > of it ...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - put the vms mail or web servers outside of the useless firewall ... vms does not need no firewall ... it is its own firewall! have they ever heard of captive accounts, acls? vms configured properly is better than any firewall they could ever buy ... sounds like someone does not know what they are doing ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:57:22 -0800 (PST) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: DIBOL to Message-ID: <455b24ed-0d8b-4cb2-9d76-3ca5ee8b7258@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Feb 13, 10:36=A0pm, ultra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Feb 13, 7:49=A0pm, Tad Winters > > > > > > wrote: > > Doug Phillips wrote innews:eebcffae-f4a5-4df2-b8= 4e-7a213c405caf@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com: > > > =A0[..snip..] > > > > I've become so accustomed to the power of DBL that using any other > > > language for business apps seems painful, so I guess I am a bit > > > biased. 8^O > > > So you're still coding in DBL? =A0If I could find some more companies in= my > > area in need of someone to maintain their DBL code, I'd be pretty happy.= =A0 > > The 2 companies I do occasional work for right now just ask for minor > > changes or minor new features. =A0The last "large" projects were > > implementing faxing of invoices (a failure since they counted on using a= > > VOIP line), emailing invoices (CSV file created and transferred to a *ni= x > > box at an ISP to be converted to PDF), and parsing a tab delimited file,= > > received via ftp from an ISP hosted web server, into an order. > > goldfax and dibol work together quite well ... T1s fail as well as > other > IP based solutions, but good old copper lines are solid for fax > uptime ... > > why not run their own web server? =A0purveyor/wasd and dibol/dcl as > script languages work terrific ... > > txt2pdf runs under perl on vms ... they could create their own pdfs > on vms and send them out as attachments with pmdf ... and vms > makes the perfect mail server with precisemail antispam and sophos > antivirus along with Mark Daniels soymail webmail freeware ... > > sounds like they need to hire a dibol/vms person full time to > put everything under their own roof ... letting your business > be run by other companies is a bad situation ... > > vms does not get viruses or trojans or hacked either ... > they are on the perfect os to do everything in house > inexpensively ... why are they not taking advantage > of it ...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - then with your vms mailserver front end outside the firewall, you connect your internal vms box with decnet and MCR NCP SET NODE node ACCESS OUTGOING and even if you let someone on the mail or web server, you could get to that box with decnet but they could never log on to your internal system ... so lets recap ... putting a $200 ds10l as your mail server outside of that useless firewall using mail accounts that only had mailbox privs would be TOTALLY secure ... and you could download Mark Daniels WASD webserver and SOYMAIL webmail and have FREE webmail! putting PURVEYOR/WASD on a $200 ds10l outside the firewall would allow them to have their web apps run using dibol/dcl scripts and then update or access the web data from an internal alpha over a ONE WAY decnet connection ... and purveyor runs on alpha or vax ... it this simple and cheap enough? and if you have a vax internally you could run an alpha for the mail/web stuff and VEST develop you dibol scripts on the vax and VEST them over to run on the alpha mail/web server ... so you would not even have to buy synergy dbl ... what a totally secure, cheap, virus free, unhackable and simple solution ... now if you could only find someone at these companies who could understand it ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:09:54 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: DIBOL to Message-ID: <642ee80e-dfef-4774-a89f-9a72f28a5dfd@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com> On Feb 13, 6:49 pm, Tad Winters wrote: > Doug Phillips wrote innews:eebcffae-f4a5-4df2-b84e-7a213c405caf@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com: > > [..snip..] > > > I've become so accustomed to the power of DBL that using any other > > language for business apps seems painful, so I guess I am a bit > > biased. 8^O > > So you're still coding in DBL? From a fairly typical DBL customer's source directory: $ search/stat *.dbl;0 "~all~the~code~" Files searched: 2091 Records searched: 757326 Characters searched: 16122920 Records matched: 0 $ search/stat/since=1-jan *.dbl;0 "~the~new~stuff~" Files searched: 36 Records searched: 37208 Characters searched: 943955 Records matched: 0 > If I could find some more companies in my > area in need of someone to maintain their DBL code, I'd be pretty happy. It looks like you're "out east" and I'm in the mid-west. You might want to call Synergex and talk to them. Not saying they will help, and they'll likely want to tell you about their reseller program, but it never hurts to get to know the people who drive the bus. If nothing else, they might put you in touch with someone in your area. > The 2 companies I do occasional work for right now just ask for minor > changes or minor new features. The last "large" projects were > implementing faxing of invoices (a failure since they counted on using a > VOIP line), emailing invoices (CSV file created and transferred to a *nix > box at an ISP to be converted to PDF), and parsing a tab delimited file, > received via ftp from an ISP hosted web server, into an order. Sounds familiar. Minor changes and new features take much of my time, too. Many of those lead to larger projects if I can spend time with the right people. It does depend on the level of IT knowledge within the company, and whether "the boss" has realistic expectations. Keeping in contact with the customers is important. Having an old reliable VAX can give the company a distorted view of what they should be (and once were) spending on IT as a percent of their budget, even though some of the real costs of keeping the old system aren't as apparent. It's like paying off your car loan and keeping the car. You get used to not having the car payment and don't really mind that your maintenance expense has crept up (because it's still less than buying a new car) while your gas mileage has crept down. At some point you decide not to take a 2,000 mile driving vacation because of the old car... but boy those new cars are sure expensive and maybe you'll hold off just a bit longer. Then it falls apart and you're forced to spend the money, and it hurts. Or, maybe you trade in the car every two years because it's important to you to have a new car or because the models you keep buying aren't reliable. You're used to the expense so it doesn't bother you. Like all those PC's the company keeps replacing while the VAX just sits there running and doing all of the mission critical work. Anyway, life's peculiar like that. Now if only my old car holds up for another year... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:29:45 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Dilbert Does Virtualization Message-ID: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > On 13 Feb, 18:57, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <47b33bcf$0$13999$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >> >>> Wilm Boerhout wrote: >>>> on 12-2-2008 14:48 Larry Kilgallen wrote... >>>>> http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert201833620... http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20080212.html >>>> I have already included it in one of my presentations! >>> Anyone surprised that Kerry Main hasn't yet jumped into this >>> conversation ? Since virtualisation is a pet subject of his, I expected >>> him to provide some comments in this accurate documentary of >>> virtualisation projects. >> He's busy unplugging something. :) > > Why unplug it when you can crash^H^H^H^Hsoftware disable it and your > pointy-haired manager can wonder what takes all the time? :o) http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20080213.html -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2008 15:09:50 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Dilbert Does Virtualization Message-ID: <47b459be$0$25051$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <82adb887-cfb2-4618-9af5-c7b961ccf1e4@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk writes: >On 13 Feb, 18:57, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <47b33bcf$0$13999$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei ..spam...@vaxination.ca> writes: >> >> >Wilm Boerhout wrote: >> >> on 12-2-2008 14:48 Larry Kilgallen wrote... >> >>>http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert201833620..= >.. >> >> >> I have already included it in one of my presentations! >> >> >Anyone surprised that Kerry Main hasn't yet jumped into this >> >conversation ? Since virtualisation is a pet subject of his, I expected >> >him to provide some comments in this accurate documentary of >> >virtualisation projects. >> >> He's busy unplugging something. :) >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =A0 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)= >COM >> >> =A0 "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" >> >> http://tmesis.com/drat.html > >Why unplug it when you can crash^H^H^H^Hsoftware disable it and your >pointy-haired manager can wonder what takes all the time? :o) You're obvioulsy not reading Dilbert. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2008 09:15:18 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Dilbert Does Virtualization Message-ID: In article , "John E. Malmberg" writes: > etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >> On 13 Feb, 18:57, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> In article <47b33bcf$0$13999$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >>> >>>> Wilm Boerhout wrote: >>>>> on 12-2-2008 14:48 Larry Kilgallen wrote... >>>>>> http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert201833620... > http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20080212.html >>>>> I have already included it in one of my presentations! > >>>> Anyone surprised that Kerry Main hasn't yet jumped into this >>>> conversation ? Since virtualisation is a pet subject of his, I expected >>>> him to provide some comments in this accurate documentary of >>>> virtualisation projects. > >>> He's busy unplugging something. :) >> >> Why unplug it when you can crash^H^H^H^Hsoftware disable it and your >> pointy-haired manager can wonder what takes all the time? :o) > > http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20080213.html http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20080214.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Dilbert Does Virtualization Message-ID: On 14 Feb, 15:09, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <82adb887-cfb2-4618-9af5-c7b961ccf...@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.= com>, etmsr...@yahoo.co.uk writes: > > > > > > >On 13 Feb, 18:57, VAXman- =A0@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> In article <47b33bcf$0$13999$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei >..spam...@vaxination.ca> writes: > > >> >Wilm Boerhout wrote: > >> >> on 12-2-2008 14:48 Larry Kilgallen wrote... > >> >>>http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert20183362= 0..=3D > >.. > > >> >> I have already included it in one of my presentations! > > >> >Anyone surprised that Kerry Main hasn't yet jumped into this > >> >conversation ? Since virtualisation is a pet subject of his, I expecte= d > >> >him to provide some comments in this accurate documentary of > >> >virtualisation projects. > > >> He's busy unplugging something. :) > > >> -- > >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =3DA0 VAXman(at)TMESIS= (dot)=3D > >COM > > >> =3DA0 "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > >>http://tmesis.com/drat.html > > >Why unplug it when you can crash^H^H^H^Hsoftware disable it and your > >pointy-haired manager can wonder what takes all the time? :o) > > You're obvioulsy not reading Dilbert. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =A0 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)= COM > > =A0 "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I wasn't at the time. I have now... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:48:57 -0500 From: "Dan Allen" Subject: RE: FW: VMS license fees? Message-ID: <007a01c86f07$f6e77fc0$1f3a0681@sdct.nist.gov> > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.company] > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:03 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: FW: VMS license fees? > > On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:23:14 -0800, Dan Allen wrote: > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG] > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 5:49 PM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> Subject: Re: VMS license fees? > >> > >> In article <47B363C7.6010706@comcast.net>, "Richard B. > >> Gilbert" writes: > >> >Dan Allen wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>>-----Original Message----- > >> >>>From: Stanley F. Quayle [mailto:infovax@stanq.com] > >> >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:36 PM > >> >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > >> >>>Subject: Re: VMS license fees? > >> >>> > >> >>>On 13 Feb 2008 at 17:02, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>>Not the way I read it: "Paying for licenses? > >> >>>> I encounter customers all the time > >> >>> > >> >>>that don't know > >> >>> > >> >>>> that HP owns VMS. They're > >> >>> > >> >>>certainly not paying anyone > >> >>> > >> >>>> license fees for their VAX." > >> >>>> > >> >>>>Hard to interpret that as anything short of running > VAX without a > >> >>>>valid license. > >> >>> > >> >>>What I meant was that the licenses that came with their > VAX, good > >> >>>forever, stay good for, well, forever. > >> >>> > >> >>>--Stan Quayle > >> >>>Quayle Consulting Inc. > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Indeed. I have a file cabinet drawer full of license PAKS > >> originally > >> >> purchased for an 11/780 in the early eighties > (including a host of > >> >> unlimited VMS and layerd product licenses) that were > >> transferred as > >> >> part of an Alpha upgrade and are still good. Too bad > >> there's no interest in the Alpha aside from me.... > >> > > >> >I think your dates are a little off Dan. In 1984 there were > >> licenses > >> >but no License PAKs. You did need a software "patch" to > >> enable DECnet > >> >but that was not the same thing as a PAK. > >> > > >> >Paper license PAKs came along a couple of years later! > >> > >> 1987/88 time frame when VMS V5.0 and the LMF were introduced. > >> > >> -- > >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > >> VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > >> > >> "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > >> > >> http://tmesis.com/drat.html > >> > > > > Well I transfered into "The Bureau" in 1986 so it wouldn't be any > > earlier than that. I guess "early Eighties" is a stretch. Still > > beaucoup $$$$ worth of PAKS in that drawer - Fortran, C, Pascal, > > Cobol, Basic, RDB - all unlimited usage and > > You forgot PL/I. Oddly enough that's one we never had although I did miss GKS, PHIGS, OPEN3D, CLUSTER, DECNET, ADL, DTR, DCE, and a few others.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:01:17 -0800 (PST) From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: HP OpenVMS Tele-Marketing?!? Message-ID: <5d74b1f9-224d-4f91-a46d-7d4b7b76c31b@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com> I just got an interesting call. It was a young man wanting to talk to me about my server situation since I had requested a copy of the OpenVMS 30th Anniversary CD. I was so shocked I didn't talk to him long enough to find out if he was trying to sell me more OpenVMS gear or migrate me away. I was sorry to have to tell him that I'm merely a hobbyist and all my servers came from Ebay rather than HP. Maybe one of you will get a call too and have more presence of mind to find out what's up. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:22:02 -0500 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: HP OpenVMS Tele-Marketing?!? Message-ID: <7dd80f60802140922r62e47943p4203f27e8b2e44e6@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:01 PM, johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com wrote: > I just got an interesting call. It was a young man wanting to talk to > me about my server situation since I had requested a copy of the > OpenVMS 30th Anniversary CD. I was so shocked I didn't talk to him > long enough to find out if he was trying to sell me more OpenVMS gear > or migrate me away. I was sorry to have to tell him that I'm merely a > hobbyist and all my servers came from Ebay rather than HP. > > Maybe one of you will get a call too and have more presence of mind to > find out what's up. > I got it also. I mentioned that I was always interested in HP doing more advertising for VMS. He wanted to know our plans and when I said we were investigating moving from Alpha to Itanium Blades he want to know if we needed assistance from HP. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:57:56 -0800 (PST) From: Ken.Fairfield@gmail.com Subject: Q: OPCOM and OPC$xyzzy logicals Message-ID: <864a6c34-7131-4fdf-a8b1-67ab31eea153@d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> Quick one: If I define one of the OPC$ logicals to a non-default value, e.g., $ Define/System OPC$ALLOW_INBOUND FALSE does the OPCOM process on the node need to be restarted for that new setting to take effect (as opposed to being set at boot time in SYLOGICALS)? Thanks, Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield Who: Ken dot and dot Ann Where: gmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:40:48 -0800 (PST) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: Q: OPCOM and OPC$xyzzy logicals Message-ID: <9331ced8-f071-42f0-bf79-fb872096192c@d68g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Ken, this logical is checked in module [OPCOM]OPCOMINI routine OPCOM_INIT and just this naming implies, that it's only done once during OPCOM startup. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 01:08:41 -0800 From: Vance Haemmerle Subject: Re: SPAM detection for freeware MX 4.2 Message-ID: <2vTsj.260$Mw.177@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com> Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > Vance Haemmerle wrote: >=20 >> I've been using MX 4.2 for almost a decade, with the >> latest patches and the Anti-open relay modifications. >> Is there anyone else out there still using MX 4.2? >=20 >=20 > Well, yes, I'm "still" using MX 4.2 since installing > it about 2 weeks ago... :-) >=20 > (I have been using the 3.x version(s) about 15 yrs ago, > but that's another story.) >=20 > I'd be intrerested in your changes. http://toyvax.glendale.ca.us/www/mx_spam.html -- Vance ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:25:57 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: SPAM detection for freeware MX 4.2 Message-ID: Vance Haemmerle wrote: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> Vance Haemmerle wrote: >> >>> I've been using MX 4.2 for almost a decade, with the >>> latest patches and the Anti-open relay modifications. >>> Is there anyone else out there still using MX 4.2? >> >> >> Well, yes, I'm "still" using MX 4.2 since installing >> it about 2 weeks ago... :-) >> >> (I have been using the 3.x version(s) about 15 yrs ago, >> but that's another story.) >> >> I'd be intrerested in your changes. > > > http://toyvax.glendale.ca.us/www/mx_spam.html > > -- > Vance > OK, fine. I have also fetched the 6.0 kit, so we'll see which way I'll go. Thanks anyway ! Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:45:13 -0800 From: glen herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: Testing new rewired "cable adapters" for lights-out console use Message-ID: AEF wrote: (snip) > The old terminal server (a MOXA CN 2100) has the > problem that power-ups and power-downs cause it to emit break signals, > so I never leave cables plugged into any VAX systems when I'm done > with console sessions. But with the lights-out scneario, I need > something better. I believe that if you put a resistor to an appropriate negative voltage you can keep it from sending a break. When the terminal server powers down, it floats the signal line, or even worse puts a positive voltage on it. A negative voltage through a resistor will work during the time the output floats. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:28:34 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Testing new rewired "cable adapters" for lights-out console use Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:45:13 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote: > AEF wrote: > (snip) > >> The old terminal server (a MOXA CN 2100) has the >> problem that power-ups and power-downs cause it to emit break signals, >> so I never leave cables plugged into any VAX systems when I'm done >> with console sessions. But with the lights-out scneario, I need >> something better. > > I believe that if you put a resistor to an appropriate negative voltage > you can keep it from sending a break. > > When the terminal server powers down, it floats the signal line, or > even worse puts a positive voltage on it. A negative voltage > through a resistor will work during the time the output floats. > > -- glen > OTOH, you could buy a used Xyplex for $200 and leave the soldering iron in the drawer. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:40:40 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: Testing new rewired "cable adapters" for lights-out console use Message-ID: <4eeec227-1864-410e-93c0-d82f9c5113cb@c23g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Feb 14, 9:28 am, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:45:13 -0800, glen herrmannsfeldt > > > > wrote: > > AEF wrote: > > (snip) > > >> The old terminal server (a MOXA CN 2100) has the > >> problem that power-ups and power-downs cause it to emit break signals, > >> so I never leave cables plugged into any VAX systems when I'm done > >> with console sessions. But with the lights-out scneario, I need > >> something better. > > > I believe that if you put a resistor to an appropriate negative voltage > > you can keep it from sending a break. > > > When the terminal server powers down, it floats the signal line, or > > even worse puts a positive voltage on it. A negative voltage > > through a resistor will work during the time the output floats. > > > -- glen > > OTOH, you could buy a used Xyplex for $200 and leave the soldering iron > in the drawer. > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com Thanks guys. I'm going with the Cisco because the MOXA periodically hangs for no apparent reason. (Don't think I ever mentioned that.) The Cisco doesn't seem to have that problem. AEF AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:53:57 -0800 (PST) From: "mb301@hotmail.com" Subject: Urgently need VAX UCX V4.2 Message-ID: It would appear that the "old" australian site, doesn't give you the full kit. What I urgently need is v4.2 so that I apply this patch, Could anyone e-mail the kit? please please please! http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/patches/vms/vax/v7.1/ucx/4.2/ $ @sys$update:vmsinstal UCXVAX_E04042 SYS$SYSDEVICE:[KITS] * Do you want to continue anyway [NO]? yes * Are you satisfied with the backup of your system disk [YES]? The following products will be processed: UCXVAX_E04 V4.2 Beginning installation of UCXVAX_E04 V4.2 at 23:49 . . * Do you wish to continue this installation [YES]? Installing Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Kernel Updates Installing Telnet Client Updates Installing FTP Updates Installing SMTP Mail Updates %UCXVAX_E04-E-NOSUCHFILE, File VMI$ROOT:[SYSEXE]UCX$SMTP_SFF.EXE not found - Dig ital TCP/IP Services image not found %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of UCXVAX_E04 V4.2 has failed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:32:03 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Urgently need VAX UCX V4.2 Message-ID: <08021410320311_2062A39A@antinode.org> From: "mb301@hotmail.com" > It would appear that the "old" australian site, doesn't give you the > full kit. What I urgently need is v4.2 so that I apply this patch, > Could anyone e-mail the kit? please please please! > > http://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/patches/vms/vax/v7.1/ucx/4.2/ Any reason not to go to a later version, say, V5.0 (which I have)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:54:57 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Urgently need VAX UCX V4.2 Message-ID: <47b4740e$0$22079$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> mb301@hotmail.com wrote: > %UCXVAX_E04-E-NOSUCHFILE, File VMI$ROOT:[SYSEXE]UCX$SMTP_SFF.EXE not > found - Dig ital TCP/IP Services image not found > %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of UCXVAX_E04 V4.2 has failed. I remember a similar complaint with some file not being present. Have you consider just creating a dummy UCX$SMTP_SFF.EXE image and then retry the installation ? In all likelyhood, the image will be replaced anyways. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:21:01 -0500 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: VEST Message-ID: FrankS wrote: > On Feb 13, 10:00 am, "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote: > >>There's no shareable image that generates Alpha or any other kind of code. There's a >>back-end tool called GEM that most VMS compilers use, but it's not something that you can >>just use. > > > I don't think it was too much of a stretch to guess that the GEM > functions common to all compilers would be located in a shareable > image. Since, to my knowledge, GEM generates the object files then > the Alpha version of the GEM code would generate Alpha objects with > Alpha instructions. > > If you VEST the DIBOL compiler and are able to mate it to the Alpha > GEM routines then one could expect it to produce Alpha code. It > wouldn't surprise me if some of Digital's earliest efforts at porting > to Alpha involved new GEM code with VESTed compilers. > > And I did say it was all theoretical and that I hadn't actually tried > it. Not knowing if the GEM entry points are the same between Alpha & > VAX (I would think they are) or how they are packaged (shareable or > linked in with each compiler) I thought I left my comments fairly open- > ended and full of the necessary disclaimers. 1) GEM doesn't exist on VAX. There is no COMMON VAX code generator shared by all the compilers. Some compilers share the VCG (or at least variants of it), but many VAX compilers (BLISS, FORTRAN, Pascal, COBOL, perhaps BASIC) have their own unique VAX code generators. I have no idea what the original VAX DIBOL compiler used as a code generator. 2) The interface to GEM isn't just an API. It is a large set of data structures (intermediate language, symbol tables, etc.) and several dozen "callbacks" from GEM back into the language frontend. 3) GEM is not packaged as a shareable. Compiler teams only get it in object form and a set of headers. It is not available for general use. 4) While GEM tries to isolate system-specific details from the compiler front-end (file I/O, command line processing, etc.), compiler front-ends still need to have specific code for certain calling standard issues. -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:35:21 -0000 From: "Iain Smith" Subject: Re: VMS Audio Update on your iPOD (or whatever player you have) Message-ID: <13r86bfbfmvid87@corp.supernews.com> "IanMiller" wrote in message news:8fa4b894-7b69-47af-9bff-864ce139bdd4@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > You can now subscribe to the VMS Audio Update and get the latest > episode whenever it is done. > > http://feeds.feedburner.com/openvms > > Any chance you could add a nice OpenVMS.org graphic to the feed, Ian? Looks better on the player that way. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 02:44:13 -0800 (PST) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: VMS Audio Update on your iPOD (or whatever player you have) Message-ID: <440e78af-81e9-4b0d-979b-0c569be76611@72g2000hsu.googlegroups.com> On 14 Feb, 10:35, "Iain Smith" wrote: > "IanMiller" wrote in message > > news:8fa4b894-7b69-47af-9bff-864ce139bdd4@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... > > > You can now subscribe to the VMS Audio Update and get the latest > > episode whenever it is done. > > >http://feeds.feedburner.com/openvms > > Any chance you could add a nice OpenVMS.org graphic to the feed, Ian? Looks > better on the player that way. I have passed your request on to Marty :-) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Feb 2008 12:22:08 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS Audio Update on your iPOD (or whatever player you have) Message-ID: <47b43270$0$25051$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <13r86bfbfmvid87@corp.supernews.com>, "Iain Smith" writes: > >"IanMiller" wrote in message >news:8fa4b894-7b69-47af-9bff-864ce139bdd4@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> You can now subscribe to the VMS Audio Update and get the latest >> episode whenever it is done. >> >> http://feeds.feedburner.com/openvms >> >> > >Any chance you could add a nice OpenVMS.org graphic to the feed, Ian? Looks >better on the player that way. Only for those with video iPods. ;) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:41:37 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: VMS license fees? Message-ID: <47B41AE1.28591.41B9DD@infovax.stanq.com> On 13 Feb 2008 at 16:20, FrankS wrote: > HP can and does issue temporary licenses. I would think they're a bit > tight-fisted about them and probably don't do it unless you're on a > support contract. Gosh, I get them for clients easily from my VMS Ambassador. And they never have support contracts... --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:17:27 -0500 From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: VMSINSTAL Message Message-ID: In article <47ADFD62.194E030F@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera wrote: ... > > Indeed. Hunter Goatley does a marvelous job of packaging software, > especially the most recent versions. All I did, really, was take his > distro. for UNZIP V5.3-2 and modify the LINK procedure so it would work > inside a KITINSTAL proc. Could probably do it again for the latest. > > PCSI is still "black magic" to me: I've yet to see a coherent > explanation of how it works or how to deal with it. I think it has some > fixed logic ala RPG, but I've never seen a flowchart or anything which > explains it as I saw for RPG which essentially was RPG's "rosetta stone" > in my case. I find I have to refer to two different documents for PCSI information... System Management Utilities Reference Manual: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/6048/6048PRO.HTML Chapter 19 describes PCSI from the system manager's viewpoint. POLYCENTER Software Installation Utility Developer's Guide: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/5952/5952PRO.html This is all about how to design and make PCSI kits. What's missing here? The PCSI developer's guide is scheduled for an update with the next VMS release. If anyone has suggestions for improvements or additions, now is a good time to send them in. Is there any need for a hands-on PCSI session for developers at the boot camp? -- Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:17:26 +0100 From: Johnny Billquist Subject: Re: Xerox 7760 on DCPS? Message-ID: JF Mezei skrev: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > >> The files are plain text 7-bit ASCII, and we need the national >> ISO-Latin "Swedish" chars in place of "[\]{|}", that is >> decimal 91,92,93 and 123,124,135. >> >> "åäöÅÄÖ" for those that can read/see them... :-) That would be ISO 646-SE, which is a 7-bit code. > Woudln't it be much simpler to just send the charcaters you want ? > > aka: for å , send 0xE4 (228) That would be ISO 8859-1, or some derivate of that. Sure it would be easier, but if the file don't have those, then it don't. From Jan-Eriks comment, they previously had a piece of code which did the translation on the fly from 646-Se to 8859-1, but that piece of code is no more. Now, DEC used to be able to deal with the national 7-bit character sets. I don't know if DCPS does it, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if it does. > DCPS *should* have no problem handling this. 8859-1? No, I wouldn't think it would have problems with that, but that's not what Jan-Erik have, so it's not entirely relevant here. :-) > Perhaps DCPS still uses the DEC multinational character set, but that > also supports the swedish characters. It differs for ISO 8859-1 by only > a few non-alphabetic charcacters. Huh? I would definitely suspect that DCPS supports 8859-1. And yes, the DEC Multinational set is almost identical. But here we're talking about the national 7-bit character sets from another standard. > Are your files just simple text files (and you expect DCPS to convert to > postscript ?) Suspect something like that is what he's looking for. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:32:20 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Xerox 7760 on DCPS? Message-ID: <8aZsj.3821$R_4.2839@newsb.telia.net> Johnny Billquist wrote: > JF Mezei skrev: >> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> >>> The files are plain text 7-bit ASCII, and we need the national >>> ISO-Latin "Swedish" chars in place of "[\]{|}", that is >>> decimal 91,92,93 and 123,124,135. >>> >>> "åäöÅÄÖ" for those that can read/see them... :-) > > That would be ISO 646-SE, which is a 7-bit code. > >> Woudln't it be much simpler to just send the charcaters you want ? >> >> aka: for å , send 0xE4 (228) > > That would be ISO 8859-1, or some derivate of that. > Sure it would be easier, but if the file don't have those, then it don't. > From Jan-Eriks comment, they previously had a piece of code which did > the translation on the fly from 646-Se to 8859-1, but that piece of code > is no more. It is, but there are support "issues" around that code... :-) > > Now, DEC used to be able to deal with the national 7-bit character sets. > I don't know if DCPS does it, but I wouldn't be totally surprised if it > does. > >> DCPS *should* have no problem handling this. > > 8859-1? No, I wouldn't think it would have problems with that, but > that's not what Jan-Erik have, so it's not entirely relevant here. :-) > >> Perhaps DCPS still uses the DEC multinational character set, but that >> also supports the swedish characters. It differs for ISO 8859-1 by only >> a few non-alphabetic charcacters. > > Huh? > I would definitely suspect that DCPS supports 8859-1. And yes, the DEC > Multinational set is almost identical. But here we're talking about the > national 7-bit character sets from another standard. > >> Are your files just simple text files (and you expect DCPS to convert to >> postscript ?) > > Suspect something like that is what he's looking for. Yes, and adding code/commands to switch the printer to the national 7-bit table for Sweden (Sweden/Finland ?) at the same time. There seemed to be a solution in another reply. Currently wating for a HP LJ to test it. I expect no major differences between a HP and a Xerox *PS* printer (as far as font/charset support). Jan-Erik. > > Johnny > ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.090 ************************