INFO-VAX Tue, 26 Feb 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 114 Contents: 6-core CPU on the horizon Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon RE: 6-core CPU on the horizon Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon Adobe Flex SDK now Open Source - Which Server? Re: anal/disk/shadow weirdnes Buying disks for DS10s Re: Buying disks for DS10s Re: Buying disks for DS10s Re: Buying disks for DS10s Re: Buying disks for DS10s Re: Buying disks for DS10s Re: Buying disks for DS10s Re: Documentation Colors (was: Re: VMS 5.0 - VMS 5.5) Eunice (was: Wollogong TCP/IP stack) Re: Eunice (was: Wollogong TCP/IP stack) Re: Eunice (was: Wollogong TCP/IP stack) FREE ANTIVIRUS DOWNLOAD!!! Re: how to use ^UP^/ from DCL ? Re: how to use ^UP^/ from DCL ? Re: how to use ^UP^/ from DCL ? RE: how to use ^UP^/ from DCL ? INIT/ERASE & DELETE/ERASE vs DOD erase/format standard Re: INIT/ERASE & DELETE/ERASE vs DOD erase/format standard newgroup decline RE: newgroup decline Re: newgroup decline Re: Samba and text files Re: Samba and text files Re: The "World's First" MicroVAX II Museum is now Open What do you have? User profiles please Re: Wollogong TCP/IP stack Re: Wollogong TCP/IP stack Re: Wollogong TCP/IP stack ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:33:27 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: 6-core CPU on the horizon Message-ID: <353ea4c5-2e15-49e4-89be-97137d71d800@71g2000hse.googlegroups.com> For anyone watching competing technologies, Intel has a 6-core CPU on the horizon. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080226-details-slip-on-upcoming-intel-dunnington-six-core-processor.html Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:57:46 +0000 (UTC) From: JKB Subject: Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon Message-ID: Le 26-02-2008, à propos de 6-core CPU on the horizon, Neil Rieck écrivait dans comp.os.vms : > For anyone watching competing technologies, Intel has a 6-core CPU on > the horizon. > > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080226-details-slip-on-upcoming-intel-dunnington-six-core-processor.html Yes and ? My Sparc T1000 uses 8-cores CPU (and 4 threads by core) for a long time... JKB -- Le cerveau, c'est un véritable scandale écologique. Il représente 2% de notre masse corporelle, mais disperse à lui seul 25% de l'énergie que nous consommons tous les jours. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:01:36 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: 6-core CPU on the horizon Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Neil Rieck [mailto:n.rieck@sympatico.ca] > Sent: February 26, 2008 7:33 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: 6-core CPU on the horizon > > For anyone watching competing technologies, Intel has a 6-core CPU on > the horizon. > > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080226-details-slip-on-upcoming- > intel-dunnington-six-core-processor.html > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ Well, with regards to the HW, one needs to remember that without the SW to support these new capabilities i.e. App's written to support multi-threadin= g and SMP etc. then these new capabilities are moot. As an example, my young lad has part time job working in an Internet gaming lounge and one of the first things they typically do when they receive a new PC is disable the 2nd core as it negatively impacts most of the current games on the market today. This may be a select niche, but how many applications out there today have really been designed with 2 way multi-threading, cache thrashing and SMP in mind, let alone 4-way and 8-way? Note this is not a new issue. When VMS V4.7 was out, it was asymmetrical processing and some applications actually ran better if you halted the secondary. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:43:58 -0800 From: "jo jimbo" Subject: Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon Message-ID: >As an example, my young lad has part time job working in an Internet gaming >lounge and one of the first things they typically do when they receive a >new PC is disable the 2nd core as it negatively impacts most of the current >games on the market today. This is also common practice in the Linux high performance cluster world. At my current employer, on dual socket/dual core systems we run finite element simulations using only one core per socket. May seem like a waste, but we get better performance. Regards, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:38:59 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon Message-ID: <3f30ed31-a1c6-4f41-bfb0-d8886719471f@71g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Feb 26, 7:33=A0am, Neil Rieck wrote: > For anyone watching competing technologies, Intel has a 6-core CPU on > the horizon. > > http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080226-details-slip-on-upcomin... > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ More info: http://gizmodo.com/360476/intels-6+core-nehalem-and-xeon-dunnington-processo= rs-leaked Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:51:28 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon Message-ID: On Feb 26, 9:01=A0am, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > [...snip...] > > Well, with regards to the HW, one needs to remember that without the SW to= > support these new capabilities i.e. App's written to support multi-threadi= ng > and SMP etc. then these new capabilities are moot. > > As an example, my young lad has part time job working in an Internet gamin= g > lounge and one of the first things they typically do when they receive a > new PC is disable the 2nd core as it negatively impacts most of the curren= t > games on the market today. > > This may be a select niche, but how many applications out there today have= > really been designed with 2 way multi-threading, cache thrashing and SMP i= n > mind, let alone 4-way and 8-way? > > Note this is not a new issue. When VMS V4.7 was out, it was asymmetrical > processing and some applications actually ran better if you halted the > secondary. > > Regards > > Kerry Main > Don't take this the wrong way because I'm a big fan of OpenVMS but OpenVMS it is not the only OS capable of supporting SMP. I just purchased an HP-Pavilion A6245N Quad-core (Q6600) from FutureShop for $650. It came with Windows-Vista preinstalled (which I'm not thrilled about) and all 4 cores are up and running. This is a personal WINDOZ computer which means that some of the cores maybe doing mundane things like virus and malware scans but they also are contributing to folding@home http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/folding_at_home.html I have always worried that with various UNIX + Linux offerings being able to run on these multi-core Intel machines, that OpenVMS (which has not been ported to x86-64) might be priced out of the market place. Just my two cents worth. Neil Rieck ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:43:53 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: 6-core CPU on the horizon Message-ID: <47c45e32$0$30973$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Neil Rieck wrote: > For anyone watching competing technologies, Intel has a 6-core CPU on > the horizon. Is this Moore's law that is coming to an end ? If increased capacity comes via more and more CPUs, it no longer makes each CPU faster as was the case in the past. Seems to me that anything between now and when CSI becomes available is just stop gap measures. Once CSI comes to the 8086, then the real future will start to happen. Will HP start to build superdome-type systems based on the 8086 ? Will Dell start to enter the real enterprise computing market by building some large "mainframe" type servers ? And if so, how quickly. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:53:36 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Adobe Flex SDK now Open Source - Which Server? Message-ID: Hi, This might be of interest to any forward-looking VMSers: - http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Flex+SDK Could be an opportunity for a "Powered By" or "Which Server?" promotion. I'm sure VMS Middle Management already have the Apache/VMS performance and throughput stats to position us favourably as the power-house of choice, supplying all those data-bound Flex components! I should've known they'd be playing their cards close to their chests. I'm sure it's bigger than Ben Hur - Let it rip! Or "The most reliable, disaster tolerant, cluster configuration your context-devoid, http, RESTful, anorexic-clients will ever need!"? Just as well your not recomending a secure, high-performance, connection-oriented, and context-rich Application Server; I mean we wouldn't want anything to differentiate us from the pack now would we? (Apart from expense, ancient software versions, and poor performance) Not sure exactly what drives the mass market but FYI "Go Daddy" is offering to host your virtual Linux server for $28/month. (And that's *with* backup!) MySQL, PHP, whatever you want to put on it. I'm sure VMS Middle Management are right to chase that market. Margins - Smargins. BTW, when I said Flex Sockets don't support connection timeout or OOB data I neglected to point out a plus side - You can have a Socket Listener that presumably is an easier way of outputing asynch broadcasts than Java/thread/JSObject.call. (No UDP though so not all that great) Cheers Richard Maher PS. Why have they made it so that you *need* Flex Builder to get Flex Charting? What was wrong with the old idea of a watermark that said it was a demo-only produced chart? Eclipse just eats my PC (especially with Java) and doesn't anyone ise a command line anymore? (Yes, I know there is the free command-line version if you don't need charting) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:10:42 -0800 (PST) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: anal/disk/shadow weirdnes Message-ID: <51d2315a-216a-4214-877c-a6abf00f0fb2@n77g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Feb 25, 5:29=A0pm, John Santos wrote: > In article <2bf2c280-5ed6-47e4-8855-ed0065a6bbd0 > @q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, tadams...@yahoo.com says... > > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2:25=A0pm, John Santos wrote: > > > In article <87e22c1f-ca1a-4fb3-95be-1395b828a415 > > > @e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, volker_ha...@hotmail.com says... > > > > > ANAL/DISK/SHADOW > > > > > Examines the entire contents of a shadow set or a specified range > > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0of blocks in a shadow set for discrepancies. > > > > > ANAL/DISK/READ only reads blocks allocated to files. > > > > > So the bad blocks are NOT in a file. > > > > > Volker. > > > > $ anal/disk/shad/blocks=3Dfile_system > > > > apparently does what the OP claims ana/disk/shadow is supposed > > > to do. > > > > (I've never had occasion to use this.) > > > > -- > > > John > > > What do you mean by OP. > > OP =3D=3D Original Poster, I.e. You! > > > Blocks=3Dfile is the default, according to help. > > I don't see anywhere where it says it's the default on either Alpha > V7.3-2 or on Alpha V8.3. =A0Maybe it used to say that, and was wrong, > and an ECO fixed the help text? =A0... =A0Oh, wait, under FILE_SYSTEM > under /BLOCKS, it does say: This is the default. =A0But I think that > only applies if you say anal/disk/shadow/blocks without specifying > either =3Dall or =3Dfile_system... =A0But /BLOCKS *is not* the default for= > anal/disk/shadow, so it doesn't matter what the default style of > /blocks is if you don't specify it at all. > > In my experience, it (without the /blocks) has always compared > everything. > > > But I will try it. > > -- > John- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I tried /blocks=3Dfile got the same result. It failed with a parity error. It produced an error on each disk in the error log at the same LBN. But the LBN for the error is not in a file according to DFU. So the explanation of you and Volker don't hold water. Still a mystery why anal/disk/shad/block=3Dfile get a parity error on a block that is not in a file according to DFU. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:05:09 -0800 (PST) From: tadamsmar Subject: Buying disks for DS10s Message-ID: We have DS10s with SCSI drives. What is a good source for those drives? Can you switch to IDE? ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2008 08:03:46 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Buying disks for DS10s Message-ID: In article , tadamsmar writes: > We have DS10s with SCSI drives. > > What is a good source for those drives? > > Can you switch to IDE? Not to derail the topic, but isn't SCSI more robust ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:15:15 -0800 (PST) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Buying disks for DS10s Message-ID: <9ea5538d-ac0f-48c5-9c5f-83c4a13a0e9c@p43g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Feb 26, 9:03=A0am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: > In article , tadamsmar writes: > > > We have DS10s with SCSI drives. > > > What is a good source for those drives? > > > Can you switch to IDE? > > Not to derail the topic, but isn't SCSI more robust ? I don't know. I run shadow sets anyway, so I'd probably be robust regardless. I think we switched some AS400s in the past, but a hardware guy did it. I would only switch if the SCSI drives were had to find. Seem to be 80-pin SCSI disk drives out there, but do all 80-pin SCSI drives work with all controllers. What's the "3" in SCSI 3 all about. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:24:15 -0800 (PST) From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Buying disks for DS10s Message-ID: <36b04794-ed27-47e8-9361-15f94b8d0d08@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com> On Feb 26, 8:05 am, tadamsmar wrote: > We have DS10s with SCSI drives. > > What is a good source for those drives? It depends if this is a "supported" configuration or not. If it's a hobbyist system then just about any modern SCSI drive will work okay. There might be heat/power problems if you go to a monster 300GB or such. If you're expecting HP hardware support contracts then obviously you have a much more limited choice as to what can be used. i.e. HP supplied and warrantied drives. > > Can you switch to IDE? You can, but be aware that the IDE driver/hardware combination is S-L- O-W compared to almost any SCSI HBA you can put in a DS10. Disclaimer: I don't have a DS10, though I did manage one back around 2000. I do have a couple DS10L's with IDE hard drives and disk access is relatively slow. I'm making the assumption that the DS10 main board is nearly the same as the DS10L's. John H. Reinhardt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:55:56 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: Buying disks for DS10s Message-ID: tadamsmar wrote in news:9ea5538d-ac0f-48c5-9c5f-83c4a13a0e9c@p43g2000hsc.googlegroups.com: > On Feb 26, 9:03 am, Kilgal...@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: >> In article >> , >> tadamsmar writes: >> >> > We have DS10s with SCSI drives. >> >> > What is a good source for those drives? >> >> > Can you switch to IDE? >> >> Not to derail the topic, but isn't SCSI more robust ? > > I don't know. I run shadow sets anyway, so I'd probably be robust > regardless. I think we switched some AS400s in the past, but a > hardware guy did it. > > I would only switch if the SCSI drives were had to find. > > Seem to be 80-pin SCSI disk drives out there, but do all 80-pin SCSI > drives work with all controllers. What's the "3" in SCSI 3 all > about. Without researching this all again, I remember that IDE allowed one I/O operation on the bus at a time, i.e. a read request to a device on the IDE bus had to be completed before another I/O request could begin. SCSI supported at least one I/O per device on the SCSI bus, and more if the SCSI device supported it, so you could have "overlapping" I/O. The other consideration is the speed of an I/O operation. IDE made it up to about 100 or maybe 150 megabytes per second. The new common interface for PCs changed to serial ATA, which is 150 MB/second and SATA-II which is 300 MB/second. SCSI had some variety in connector sizes, but basically had 50 and 68 conductor interfaces (with 80 conductors supplying SCSI ID, power, and settings like termination.) The speed has made it up to 320 MB/second, the last I noted. (I'm sure someone here has better information on this, so please correct me where I'm wrong.) I've judged SCSI to be quite a bit better, but it does cost more. Individuals usually purchase based on price. Corporations usually purchase based on performance and reliability. If you examine warranties provided by drive manufacturers, you will note that many are covered for 1 year; At least 1 has coverage for 3 years; There may be only 1 that has coverage for 5 years. I suggest looking up the model of your current drive and verify it no longer is covered by a manufacturer warranty before making a purchase. If it's not covered, check its specifications and look for something comparable (on the manufacturer web site.) Once you've made a list of possible replacement drives, start your search for reasonable pricing. Check: ebay.com, craigslist.org, pricewatch.com, bizrate.com, epinions.com, shopping.com, Google's product search, etc. Finally, you're ready to get your best deal. The more time you have to monitor the market, the better price you can get. Good luck, and let us know how you do. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:39:49 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Buying disks for DS10s Message-ID: On Feb 26, 7:05 am, tadamsmar wrote: > We have DS10s with SCSI drives. > > What is a good source for those drives? > > Can you switch to IDE? John is correct about IDE performance. Its usable but slow; why run a nice machine like a DS10 and cripple it with slow disks? I'm running Fujitsu 36GB 80 pin drives on a DS10-L with a KZPBA-CA adapter (Ultra-SCSI 40MBps); it always generates one error during system POST but works 100% error free under VMS (and it has been tested under heavy load). There are inexpensive 80 to 68 pin adapters available. However you may have some problems using them internally in a DS10; it depends on how much room you have behind the drive. I also have two IDE drives with ACARD SCSI-IDE adapters that provide Ultra-Wide SCSI interfaces; its an inexpensive way to get much larger drives online. VMS V7.3-2 and VMS V8.2 each report a single error on the drive at mount time, but again, in running they have been 100% reliable so far (not counting one drive failure; what do you expect from cheap consumer peecee drives?). They are very close to the 7200RPM SCSI drives in performance, but not as fast under heavy loads (when playing with an exerciser, a 9GB 7200 RPM Barracuda was about 20% faster at peak load, going from memory). Much much faster than using straight IDE though. If your DS10s have the hot-swap front drive cage, those drives should be readily available and not too expensive from numerous resellers, like Islandco. In fact, given the avalanche of SATA drives, I wouldn't be surprised if its no harder to find real SCSI drives than parallel IDE drives in a year or two... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:47:44 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Buying disks for DS10s Message-ID: <47c45f18$0$30973$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> tadamsmar wrote: > We have DS10s with SCSI drives. > > What is a good source for those drives? > > Can you switch to IDE? DS10 and DS10L have support for IDE. YOu can put at least 2 IDE drives in even a DS10L. SCSI is better performance though. Island Computers can probably sell yur some SCSI drives or point you to some place that carries them. They are good folks who will ensure that what you buy will fit into what you have. And they are loyal to the VMS community. (*) (*) Disclaimer: I was so satisfied with the free DS10L I won from Island that I bought another one from them. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2008 13:53:37 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Documentation Colors (was: Re: VMS 5.0 - VMS 5.5) Message-ID: <62ijv1F23nhf1U1@mid.individual.net> In article <47c35f65$1@flight>, Malcolm Dunnett writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >>> The RSTS documentation I remember came with the books stapled >>> together, with a "sunset" coloured cover that had a hole in it that you >>> could read the title through. >> >> Yup. I have Version 7 in Blue and Version 9 in Orange. > > Ah, We only got as far as RSTS 6B before we got rid of the PDP-11. > > Does anyone still run RSTS? Fairly certain there are places still using it. I understand that Mentec still sells it so someone must be running it. I always did and still do like it. Although I doubt it would have any commercial value nowadays, I always thought it would be fun to port it to the PC and then with the additional memory available modernize it with things like TCP/IP networking and even X-windows. Would make a nice change from all the differnt versions of Unix out there today. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:24:07 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Eunice (was: Wollogong TCP/IP stack) Message-ID: <47C3DAB7.26446.4B20EAF@infovax.stanq.com> On 26 Feb 2008 at 13:59, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Just how much of a real Unix environment would it provide? I remember building some open-source stuff about 15 years ago on a Unix machine. The config script came up with the message, "Thank God you're not running Eunice". Why Eunice instead of GNV? Yes, GNV doesn't exist for VAX, but it's already on Alpha and Itanium. And always looking for more developers to join the party, if you have some spare time. --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2008 16:05:25 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Eunice (was: Wollogong TCP/IP stack) Message-ID: <62irm5F23528uU1@mid.individual.net> In article <47C3DAB7.26446.4B20EAF@infovax.stanq.com>, "Stanley F. Quayle" writes: > On 26 Feb 2008 at 13:59, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> Just how much of a real Unix environment would it provide? > > I remember building some open-source stuff about 15 years ago on a Unix machine. The > config script came up with the message, "Thank God you're not running Eunice". > > Why Eunice instead of GNV? Yes, GNV doesn't exist for VAX, but it's already on Alpha and > Itanium. And always looking for more developers to join the party, if you have some > spare time. I used Eunice on a VAX 20-some years ago. Considering that the VAX was often used to compile Ada making VMS slow as well, Eunice was indistinguishable from real Unix of the time. I have not even looked at GNV for quite some time, but I don't remember it ever being a case of not knowing it wasn't Unix. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:35:45 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: Eunice (was: Wollogong TCP/IP stack) Message-ID: <47C415B1.31098.5986F9D@infovax.stanq.com> On 26 Feb 2008 at 16:05, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > I have not even looked at GNV for quite some time, but I don't remember it > ever being a case of not knowing it wasn't Unix. Back in 2003, I used GNV for user accounts to provide a "friendly" environment for *nix users. If you prevent them from escaping to the VMS command line, it works pretty well. There are more and more things being ported from the open-source world to VMS by using GNV. I just wish that we could the newest bash shell working there. A true "fork" function would go a long way, too. --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 00:02:52 -0800 (PST) From: bek2399@gmail.com Subject: FREE ANTIVIRUS DOWNLOAD!!! Message-ID: <686e058e-3031-4b20-9cae-5c05d9fbff24@v3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> http://freeantiviruscom.page.tl/ Obtain Free Antivirus download to protect and eliminate viruses desktops and networks to fight against internet threats using Comodo AntiVirus Software. http://freeantiviruscom.page.tl/ Free download of leading antivirus software package. Well suited for Windows XP, 2000. It detects over 250000 viruses. http://freeantiviruscom.page.tl/ Download antivirus for free, as well as other free AVG products, join the millions of home users that trust AVG to protect their computers. http://freeantiviruscom.page.tl/ Antivirus software for home or business. The world's fastest antivirus updates. Free virus scan and antivirus trial downloads. http://freeantiviruscom.page.tl/ Develops, markets and supports anti-virus software and management solutions for corporate computer systems and personal computers, primarily in Japan. http://freeantiviruscom.page.tl/ Norton AntiVirus 2008 has the advanced protection you need to shield your computer from today's evolving internet threats. http://freeantiviruscom.page.tl/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:02:35 -0800 (PST) From: Pierre Subject: Re: how to use ^UP^/ from DCL ? Message-ID: <2d394d5c-6b24-4cdd-9fc9-db0a0103c91c@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> > If the command SHOW ROOT gives you the [MNT] directory then I think you need > > $ type "^UP^/TEST/foobar.txt" the posix root is one level up of mnt, so /mnt is needed. IMHO, if the absolute path was wrong, bash would not have found the file anyway, after the N-th @sys$startup:gnv$starup, the type works. duno why :( > In my case SHOW ROOT points to [0000000] on my SYS$SYSDEVICE so > > "^UP^/vms$common/sysmgr/login.com" is the same as > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[VMS$COMMON.SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM. > > One thing that can help you track down where ^UP^ is pointing to is to try > > $ DIR /FULL "^UP^/*" $ DIR/FUL "^UP^/" "^UP^/" no such file $ DIR/FUL "^UP^" "^UP^" no such file $ DIR/FUL "^UP^/mnt/" "^UP^/mnt/" no such file $ DIR/FUL "^UP^/mnt" "^UP^/mnt" File ID: (7224,1,0) Size: 1/9 Owner: [SYSTEM] Created: 20-JAN-2008 06:22:05.31 Revised: 20-JAN-2008 06:22:05.31 (0) ... :( BTW I found how to create symlink to a file ($ create/sym ...). after that, I can use the symlink as I would use the real file. is it possible to create symlink to a directory ? Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2008 07:20:32 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: how to use ^UP^/ from DCL ? Message-ID: In article <7bff3774-3109-441f-91fa-3b12229e6689@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Pierre writes: > > $ dir "^UP^/mnt/TEST/foobar.txt" > %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found > > where am I wrong with the ^UP^/ syntax ?... Maybe its because there's no such syntax in DCL? Is there such a thing in bash? I've never seen it. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2008 07:45:03 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: how to use ^UP^/ from DCL ? Message-ID: In article <7bff3774-3109-441f-91fa-3b12229e6689@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Pierre writes: > > $ dir "^UP^/mnt/TEST/foobar.txt" > %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found > > where am I wrong with the ^UP^/ syntax ?... Most likely DCL processing is stripping the " before RMS gets it. Try: $ dir """^UP^/mnt/TEST/foobar.txt""" (I'm assuming you've set up the logical names and root in the required manner, I didn't spend a lot of time studying those). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:45:24 -0500 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: how to use ^UP^/ from DCL ? Message-ID: <038001c8788e$9ac351c0$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP> > > $ DIR/FUL "^UP^/mnt" > > "^UP^/mnt" File ID: (7224,1,0) > Size: 1/9 Owner: [SYSTEM] > Created: 20-JAN-2008 06:22:05.31 > Revised: 20-JAN-2008 06:22:05.31 (0) > ... Does (7224,1,0) point to the file that you think it should? How about trying; $ DIR/FULL "^UP^/mnt/T*" $ DIR/FULL "^UP^/mnt/TEST/*" $ DIR/FULL "^UP^/mnt/TEST/f*" and check the FIDs you get to make sure they point to where you think they should. One other thing that you can do is; $ EDIT/READ "^UP^/mnt" This will be the same as EDIT/READ SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]MNT.DIR so whatever you do please do not make any changes and save it since you may corrupt your directory. If that just brings up an empty directory then try EDIT/READ "^UP^/" - in my case that is the same as EDIT/READ SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]000000.DIR. For some reason DUMP "^UP^/" gives "%SYSTEM-F-IVDEVNAM, invalid device name." I think I recall reporting that to HP when I noticed it. > BTW I found how to create symlink to a file ($ create/sym ...). > after that, I can use the symlink as I would use the real file. > is it possible to create symlink to a directory ? No idea on that one, I never played with it. The only reason I played with the ^UP^ syntax was that I noticed it in a manual a few years ago and I could not figure out what on Earth it was doing so I tried a bunch of things. I never did find anything useful that I could do with it though. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca CHARON-VAX CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail HP Commercial Hardware ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:05:11 -0800 (PST) From: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" Subject: INIT/ERASE & DELETE/ERASE vs DOD erase/format standard Message-ID: Hello Does anybody know how the ERASE option compares to the DOD standard? Does the /ERASE option meet the DOD standard?? IF the /erase option doesnot is there a DOD format program for VMS?? tks phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:25:42 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: INIT/ERASE & DELETE/ERASE vs DOD erase/format standard Message-ID: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" wrote in news:e44756bb-7ce5-4f7c-9805-25a4d04a6081@q33g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > Hello > Does anybody know how the ERASE option compares to the DOD standard? > Does the /ERASE option meet the DOD standard?? IF the /erase option > doesnot is there a DOD format program for VMS?? > tks > phil > I can't exactly answer that, but let me say that a perticular piece of software, dban, claims to offer disk erasure that meets DOD standards and offers another erasure method that makes far more passes. I looked up the quoted DOD standard, and it provided no details on erasing, merely that it had to completely overwrite the data to be considered erasure. There was no real meat to it. The second method, was an implementation of the writings of someone who clearly denies actually writing any program to perform disk erasure. His "algorithm" just addresses overcoming possible failure to effectively overwrite data on a whole range of early disk layouts, in addition to the more modern standards. A company for whom I worked, subscribed to the idea that dban was the only acceptable program for overwriting disks, and that those which weren't overwritten with dban, or couldn't be overwritten with dban, needed to be physically destroyed. They blindly accepted the claims of a program written by someone from another country, who claimed implementation of a standard, which didn't really exist. For my part, I used RZDISK to return the disk to a state of only having bad blocks as it came from the factory and then used analyze/media/exercise=full to overwrite as much as possible with three patterns. (Check the help on this command.) In a few cases, the RZDISK wouldn't do what I wanted, so I would then use the console command of the MicroVAX 3100 to perform a disk format before I used the ANALYZE command. I couldn't see the point in detroying perfectly good SCSI disk drives, many of them SBBs. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:21:55 -0800 (PST) From: tadamsmar Subject: newgroup decline Message-ID: <4c3207ab-5f96-49a6-880d-a80d7a2afe54@60g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> Looks like the peak year for posts was 2002. Declining since then. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:12:24 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: newgroup decline Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: tadamsmar [mailto:tadamsmar@yahoo.com] > Sent: February 26, 2008 9:22 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: newgroup decline > > Looks like the peak year for posts was 2002. Declining since then. Not sure if this is a valid measurement as 2002 posts were likely 50% relat= ed to Alpha cancellation and all of the stuff associated with that. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:20:29 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: newgroup decline Message-ID: <8bfd5fc0-0928-466a-92a8-c2e86522c2b3@n75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Feb 26, 11:12 am, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tadamsmar [mailto:tadams...@yahoo.com] > > Sent: February 26, 2008 9:22 AM > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: newgroup decline > > > Looks like the peak year for posts was 2002. Declining since then. > > Not sure if this is a valid measurement as 2002 posts were likely 50% related to Alpha cancellation and all of the stuff associated with that. > > Regards > > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-254-8911 > Fax: 613-591-4477 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT) > > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. Not only that, did you account for off-topic threads? One or two really long ones could skew the data. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:42:16 -0800 (PST) From: Dean Woodward Subject: Re: Samba and text files Message-ID: On Feb 24, 2:50 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > >{...snip...} > >This may actually not be an issue after all. I've been checking regular > >(created with EDT) text files with Notepad from a PC to see if things > >worked. I read that Notepad is rather brain damaged when working with > >Samba-served files so I opened a file with Wordpad, and it works correctly. > >Other tools seem to work as well. > > Something brain damaged in Weendoze? Who'd of thunk it? Yeah, well, I bet nobody's seriously looked at notepad since Windows 3.1. It works for them, why fix it? Myself, I use PSPad, a decent free text editor. I digress. Serendipitously, I've got a file transfer issue, sending files to (apparently) a PC-based sftp server, and I'm having the same issue, and google led me to this thread. The 'administrator' (sic) lo on the other side wants me to "turn word wrap off on my word processor". There are no words to explain to him that none of the 30+ submitters are constructing hundreds of fixed-length records by typing them into a word processor. *sigh*. So, meanwhile, I'm poking at CONVERT to get it to add CR/LF to the end of my data files... ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2008 18:22:19 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Samba and text files Message-ID: <62j3mrF244bipU1@mid.individual.net> In article , Dean Woodward writes: > On Feb 24, 2:50 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article , moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >> >{...snip...} >> >This may actually not be an issue after all. I've been checking regular >> >(created with EDT) text files with Notepad from a PC to see if things >> >worked. I read that Notepad is rather brain damaged when working with >> >Samba-served files so I opened a file with Wordpad, and it works correctly. >> >Other tools seem to work as well. >> >> Something brain damaged in Weendoze? Who'd of thunk it? > > Yeah, well, I bet nobody's seriously looked at notepad since Windows > 3.1. It works for them, why fix it? Myself, I use PSPad, a decent free > text editor. I digress. You can't believe how funny this sounds. No wonder the industry has stopped taking VMS people seriously. Notepad isn't btoken, people. It does exactly what it was designed to do. The fact that it can not deal with non MSDOS files is not a bug. Other editors suffer the same kinds of problems like opening a MSDOS file in (real) vi. Ever notice all those ^M at thend of every line? Of course, EMACS automatically converts all of these formats but that's probably because it's internal format is linked-list rather than record format. > > Serendipitously, I've got a file transfer issue, sending files to > (apparently) a PC-based sftp server, and I'm having the same issue, > and google led me to this thread. The 'administrator' (sic) lo on the > other side wants me to "turn word wrap off on my word processor". > > There are no words to explain to him that none of the 30+ submitters > are constructing hundreds of fixed-length records by typing them into > a word processor. *sigh*. > > So, meanwhile, I'm poking at CONVERT to get it to add CR/LF to the end > of my data files... > Gees.... At least in the early days of IT we knew enough not to expect systems automagically convert all our files for us. We had to know what the differences were and usually write our own utilities (which were usually shared and this is long before the FSF and GNU) to handle it. Anybody remember getting C programs over BITNET on an IBM mainframe and receiving a file with all the "{" and "}" changed into some thing else? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:04:01 GMT From: Christine Ricketts/Andrew Stewart Subject: Re: The "World's First" MicroVAX II Museum is now Open Message-ID: <47c40022@news.mel.dft.com.au> Greetings Milton, Yes, still lurking on comp.os.vms and collecting/recycling DEC stuff. :-) I'm trying to reduce my collection now by expelling the ancient PC bits and pieces from the factory. More modern PC stuff type that comes my way gets sent across the Yarra river to Altona where the CADSS group recycles it. -- Regards, Andy. 03-9808-9584 AH, 04140-76667 reasonable hours only. If this is an news group posting and you want to email me then substitute "darkstar" and "carringbush" appropriately. "With enough lubrication, we can do anything." Motto of the Mythbuster team. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:23:45 -0800 (PST) From: tadamsmar Subject: What do you have? User profiles please Message-ID: <46580234-1d76-4f68-b468-fdbc37c961cd@41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> I was wondering what systems people have now. I manage 4 DS10s and an AS800. Still have an AS400 in storage that could be trucked out in a pinch. All 5 systems have 2 shadowed disks and UPSes. The app is a research lab. Run 7.3.2 on all of them. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2008 12:58:50 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Wollogong TCP/IP stack Message-ID: <47c40d0a$0$8081$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , "Bob Blum" writes: >What version of Wollongong are they running? > >I seem to recall using version 3.x and upgrading to 5.0 around the late >1980s. I don't recall when they transitioned to Attachmate, but I have a >copy of the Attachmate PathWay 3.1 documentation and CD. It supports UCX >emulation, and still appears to use the TWG$* logicals and directories. > >I'd be afraid to run a newer version of DCPS on an old version UCX emulation >IP stack, but then again, I've done stranger things! > >What version of VMS are they running? What versions are they running? None. What versions were they running, I don't recall. This was almost 20 years ago. All I know is that I was happy to dump it and install Multinet. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2008 13:59:38 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Wollogong TCP/IP stack Message-ID: <62ikaaF23nhf1U2@mid.individual.net> In article <47c34d44$0$8063$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <47C2C324.7124.6DF980@infovax.stanq.com>, "Stanley F. Quayle" writes: >>I have a client running the very-ancient Wollogong IP stack. While it works just fine, >>they'd like to add DCPS for printing, but DCPS doesn't support that stack. >> >>I vaguely remember that Wollogong became TCPware. Is that correct? > > I would opin that that is INCORRECT. BTW, it's Wollongong. Wollongong, > IIRC, became Attachmate. > Speaking of Wollongong, I still have two tapes of Eunice for the VAX (onre says bin the other says src. I wonder how much source is actually there?) hanging in my tape locker. Anybody know what the status of Eunice might be? Anybody around who might know? Eunices biggest shortcoming was its speed (actually, its lack thereof!) and if it could be re-done today it might not perform all that bad on an Alpha or even an Itanium under VMS. Which then brings up the question, "Just how much of a real Unix environment would it provide?" So many questions, so few answers!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:18:20 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: Wollogong TCP/IP stack Message-ID: <47C3D95C.1764.4ACC55A@infovax.stanq.com> On 25 Feb 2008 at 19:04, Bob Blum wrote: > What version of Wollongong are they running? How can they tell? (I have no access, it being a classified system.) > I have a copy of the Attachmate PathWay 3.1 documentation and CD. It > supports UCX emulation, and still appears to use the TWG$* logicals and > directories. I'd be interested in getting a copy of what you have. Please call me at 888-VAX-VMS-8 to discuss. > What version of VMS are they running? V5.5-2H4 (and, yes, they're stuck on that version) --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.114 ************************