INFO-VAX Thu, 20 Mar 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 159 Contents: Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Divining the full pathname of a file, all logicals translated Re: Divining the full pathname of a file, all logicals translated Re: Divining the full pathname of a file, all logicals translated Re: Divining the full pathname of a file, all logicals translated Re: Hobbyist Licenses Re: MediaWiki on VMS Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Problem with SEARCH /WILDCARD_MATCHING? RE: Problem with SEARCH /WILDCARD_MATCHING? Re: RIP Arthur C. Clarke Re: VMS Backup reverse date order restore Re: VMS Backup reverse date order restore Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Mar 2008 14:12:07 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Message-ID: <5Pa2mMWjpaOA@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <47E106CD.20504@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > I had a problem once with a DECServer 200 that wouldn't boot. They will > boot using either DECnet/MOP or TCP/IP bootp. I've never seen any IP support on something as old as a 200. Are you sure it wasn't a later model? ------------------------------ Date: 19 Mar 2008 14:13:27 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Message-ID: In article <7cc8c443-d810-4796-b796-671a24694f79@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, geoffrey.ive@eskom.co.za writes: > Hi - My Decserver 200's are not getting there image loaded from Vax > Server. The Decservers carry on working but if I power one off its > image is not loaded. I have not changed any parameters in the > dsvconfig file. Any suggestions? > Geoff I have a problem with a DECserver that gives up before the VAX or Alpha it could boot from comes up after a building power outage. My solution is to reboot it sometime later when I notice it's out. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Mar 2008 14:15:45 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Message-ID: In article , geoffrey.ive@eskom.co.za writes: > On Mar 19, 4:32 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > Koehler) wrote: >> In article <7cc8c443-d810-4796-b796-671a24694...@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, geoffrey....@eskom.co.za writes: >> >> > Hi - My Decserver 200's are not getting there image loaded from Vax >> > Server. The Decservers carry on working but if I power one off its >> > image is not loaded. I have not changed any parameters in the >> > dsvconfig file. Any suggestions? >> > Geoff >> >> Are you using the LANCP or NCP to manage the MOP database? > > I'm using ncp > Geoff Check "show node xx.yyy characteristics" or "show node name characteristics" to make sure the parameters are set up correctly. Also check "show circuit xxx-n" to make sure service is enabled. If either is wrong, both "set" and "define" the changes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:56:48 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Message-ID: <47E161F0.1020804@comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <47E106CD.20504@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > >>I had a problem once with a DECServer 200 that wouldn't boot. They will >>boot using either DECnet/MOP or TCP/IP bootp. > > > I've never seen any IP support on something as old as a 200. Are > you sure it wasn't a later model? > I could have been a later model. This was many years ago and my memory grows DIMM. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:37:58 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Uusim=E4ki?= Subject: Re: Decserver 200 - Not getting its image loaded Message-ID: <47e16b49$0$8160$9b536df3@news.fv.fi> geoffrey.ive@eskom.co.za wrote: > Hi - My Decserver 200's are not getting there image loaded from Vax > Server. The Decservers carry on working but if I power one off its > image is not loaded. I have not changed any parameters in the > dsvconfig file. Any suggestions? > Geoff Has there been any modifications of the LAN? New (routing) switches installed? I recommend you to do like JF suggested: log in to the VMS machine and issue the command REPLY/ENABLE then power cycle a DECserver 200 and look at the OPCOM messages you get on your terminal. If you can see messages about the MOP load requests, then the LAN doesn't affect the loading for that DECserver. If everything works normally, you should also see when the loading was completed. It would be good to look what is happening with the DECserver at the same time. The port #1 is the "console" port by default. Connect a terminal to it and then power cycle the DECserver and see what messages you get. There you should see that the DECserver is trying to load its software. By following the VMS messages on both the VMS server and the DECserver you should find out where the problem is. Good luck. Regards, Kari ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:41:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Divining the full pathname of a file, all logicals translated Message-ID: <6b38b736-8561-4322-b96c-f7509ac0970f@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> I'm looking at ways to generate the full "low level" pathname to a file with no logicals, concealed, terminal, or otherwise involved, and in standard format. So far the way that seems to work closest to what I need using only VMS provided tools follows. THis is (currently) a DCL command procedure searching multiple directories (using F$SEARCH with a wildcard, and generally with a logical in the search term): - F$SEARCH returns the filename. - The return from F$SEARCH will already have translated non- terminal logicals; for example in the SYSTEM account searching for SYS $LOGIN:LOGIN.COM returns SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 - Take the output of F$SEARCH and feed it to F$PARSE with argument "NO_CONCEAL" as the parse type. This returns: NODE$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 Thats workable but I really need it to be normalized as NODE$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 I can put in conditional code to clean up the f$parse output but I'd rather find a way to have the clean pathname returned. Is there a way to do this using normal lexical functions? ===== One other alternative seems to be to use one of the FID to NAME programs; since I can locate the file in question I have its FID and can run it through a program (seen online here in COV, also perhaps on freeware) and get the full raw pathname back. That would be acceptable too but if anyone's done it and has recommendations I'd appreciate hearing back. It would mean many thousands of image activations running the FID to Name program. Thanks for any thoughts. Yes I checked the FAQ first but didn't see anything that appeared relevant. Rich CCS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:15:11 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Divining the full pathname of a file, all logicals translated Message-ID: <47E19E7F.6090206@comcast.net> Rich Jordan wrote: > I'm looking at ways to generate the full "low level" pathname to a > file with no logicals, concealed, terminal, or otherwise involved, and > in standard format. > > So far the way that seems to work closest to what I need using only > VMS provided tools follows. THis is (currently) a DCL command > procedure searching multiple directories (using F$SEARCH with a > wildcard, and generally with a logical in the search term): > > - F$SEARCH returns the filename. > - The return from F$SEARCH will already have translated non- > terminal logicals; for example in the SYSTEM account searching for SYS > $LOGIN:LOGIN.COM returns SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 > > - Take the output of F$SEARCH and feed it to F$PARSE with > argument "NO_CONCEAL" as the parse type. > > This returns: > > NODE$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 > > Thats workable but I really need it to be normalized as > > NODE$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 > > I can put in conditional code to clean up the f$parse output but I'd > rather find a way to have the clean pathname returned. Is there a way > to do this using normal lexical functions? > > ===== > > One other alternative seems to be to use one of the FID to NAME > programs; since I can locate the file in question I have its FID and > can run it through a program (seen online here in COV, also perhaps on > freeware) and get the full raw pathname back. That would be > acceptable too but if anyone's done it and has recommendations I'd > appreciate hearing back. It would mean many thousands of image > activations running the FID to Name program. > > Thanks for any thoughts. Yes I checked the FAQ first but didn't see > anything that appeared relevant. > > Rich > CCS > How about just appending a -"][" to the F$SEARCH statement? It may be ugly but it should get the job done! For that matter, the ugly original should work. Is "pretty" worth the effort required? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:23:04 GMT From: Antonio Carlini Subject: Re: Divining the full pathname of a file, all logicals translated Message-ID: On 19 Mar 2008, you wrote in comp.os.vms: > > This returns: > > NODE$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 > > Thats workable but I really need it to be normalized as > > "NODE$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 When I've needed to do this I've used lexical functions: Given string = "NODE$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12" loc = F$LOCATE(".][", string) len = F$LENGTH(string) IF loc .GT. len THEN string = F$EXTRACT(0,loc,string) + "." + F$EXTRACT(loc+3,len,string) ENDIF Not terribly concise, but no image activation involved! I don't recall if it's possible to get more than one ".][" sequence in a string ... if it is then you may need a loop. Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:47:10 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Divining the full pathname of a file, all logicals translated Message-ID: <47E1C21E.953D8662@spam.comcast.net> Rich Jordan wrote: > > I'm looking at ways to generate the full "low level" pathname to a > file with no logicals, concealed, terminal, or otherwise involved, and > in standard format. > > So far the way that seems to work closest to what I need using only > VMS provided tools follows. THis is (currently) a DCL command > procedure searching multiple directories (using F$SEARCH with a > wildcard, and generally with a logical in the search term): > > - F$SEARCH returns the filename. > - The return from F$SEARCH will already have translated non- > terminal logicals; for example in the SYSTEM account searching for SYS > $LOGIN:LOGIN.COM returns SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 > > - Take the output of F$SEARCH and feed it to F$PARSE with > argument "NO_CONCEAL" as the parse type. > > This returns: > > NODE$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 > > Thats workable but I really need it to be normalized as > > NODE$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSMGR]LOGIN.COM;12 > > I can put in conditional code to clean up the f$parse output but I'd > rather find a way to have the clean pathname returned. Is there a way > to do this using normal lexical functions? > > ===== > > One other alternative seems to be to use one of the FID to NAME > programs; since I can locate the file in question I have its FID and > can run it through a program (seen online here in COV, also perhaps on > freeware) and get the full raw pathname back. That would be > acceptable too but if anyone's done it and has recommendations I'd > appreciate hearing back. It would mean many thousands of image > activations running the FID to Name program. > > Thanks for any thoughts. Yes I checked the FAQ first but didn't see > anything that appeared relevant. Antonio's solution will work, of course. Myself, I'd lean toward Rich Gilbert's idea of simply reducing "][" out of the string unconditionally: $ target = F$PARSE( source,,,,, "NO_CONCEAL" ) - "][" David J Dachtera (formerly dba) DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:23:30 -0500 From: DanS Subject: Re: Hobbyist Licenses Message-ID: <190320081623305200%djlstewart@TAKE-OUTmac.com> In article , wrote: > On Mar 19, 11:05 am, DanS wrote: > > In article > > <1c753b8b-a52d-4144-82e1-1be0d5bd5...@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > > > > IanMiller wrote: > > > Best ask this in the hobbyist forums > > > > I wasn't aware there was a VMS hobbyist forum - what is it called as I > > didn't see it in my full newsgroup list. > > > > Dan > > On the OpenVMS Hobbyist web site itself. It's not part of the USENET > groups. The link is http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/forum/index.php > My mistake - you DID say forum and I was thinking Usenet for some reason. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Mar 2008 21:30:07 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: MediaWiki on VMS Message-ID: issinoho wrote: > I managed to get MediaWiki running on OpenVMS but it wasn't without > problems. I know there was at least one enquiry about this in the past > so I have documented the process here, > http://vamp.issinoho.com/viewforum.php?f=19 > Hope this helps a few people. Very cool, I'll try to find time to take another look at this. I got stalled on this about a year ago. As you note, we really need PHP5. At the time I opted for PmWiki, which works pretty good on VMS. Zane ------------------------------ Date: 19 Mar 2008 20:55:36 -0600 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Microvax II + 9-Track Message-ID: In article , Chuck Forsberg writes: > It's a Kennedy 9000 800/1600 9 track with tension arms > two Unibus style cables to a large board in the VAX Thanks, Chuck, but I think I'm going to have to pass on it. The tape drive would be very handy (although I really need a 6250), but I just can't come up with a reason for a trip out your way and I suspect I would be quite shocked at the cost for shipping a tape drive like that to the upper Midwest. I'm just going to have to wait for something closer and maybe something that matches my needs a bit better. If you do decide you are going to strip it down at some point I would be interested in the ethernet board and perhaps the hard drive and controller. -- George Cornelius Remove BEGIN/END to reply ------------------------------ Date: 19 Mar 2008 18:43:57 GMT From: DAVISM@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis) Subject: Problem with SEARCH /WILDCARD_MATCHING? Message-ID: We're running OpenVMS v8.2 on an AlphaServer DS15. I have observed some odd SEARCH behavior with the /WILDCARD_MATCHING qualifier. Say you have a simple text file named TEST.LIS with the following content: jones smith Guess what happens with... $ SEARCH/WILD TEST.LIS J%,S% The logical conclusion is that you'd see... jones smith Instead, all you see is jones If you reverse the order of the search strings... $ SEARCH/WILD TEST.LIS S%,J% ...all you see is... smith SEARCH is not (re)defined with a symbol definition of any kind. ...Bug? ...Documented (mis-)behavior? Regards, Mike -- | Systems Specialist: CBE,MSE Michael T. Davis (Mike) | Departmental Networking/Computing http://www.ecr6.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ | The Ohio State University | 197 Watts, (614) 292-6928 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:08:03 -0400 From: "Farrell, Michael" Subject: RE: Problem with SEARCH /WILDCARD_MATCHING? Message-ID: <8330CD39B64C934DBE63CB6D4CEE37D052B552@NJ103EX2.EAST.VIS.COM> I just tried this on VMS v8.3, and I got the following: HYDRA::GD2:[FARRELL_SPB.WORK]>type test.lis jones smith HYDRA::GD2:[FARRELL_SPB.WORK]>SEARCH/WILD TEST.LIS J%,S% jones smith =20 Files searched: 1 Buffered I/O count: 7 Records searched: 2 Direct I/O count: 1 Characters searched: 10 Page faults: 21 Records matched: 2 Elapsed CPU time: 0 00:00:00.00 Lines printed: 2 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.00 Seems to work the way you want it Regards, Mike Farrell -----Original Message----- From: Michael T. Davis [mailto:DAVISM@ecr6.ohio-state.edu]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:44 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Subject: Problem with SEARCH /WILDCARD_MATCHING? We're running OpenVMS v8.2 on an AlphaServer DS15. I have observed some odd SEARCH behavior with the /WILDCARD_MATCHING qualifier. Say you have a simple text file named TEST.LIS with the following content: jones smith Guess what happens with... $ SEARCH/WILD TEST.LIS J%,S% The logical conclusion is that you'd see... jones smith Instead, all you see is jones If you reverse the order of the search strings... $ SEARCH/WILD TEST.LIS S%,J% ..all you see is... smith SEARCH is not (re)defined with a symbol definition of any kind. ...Bug? ...Documented (mis-)behavior? Regards, Mike -- | Systems Specialist: CBE,MSE Michael T. Davis (Mike) | Departmental Networking/Computing http://www.ecr6.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ | The Ohio State University | 197 Watts, (614) 292-6928 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:20:34 GMT From: "PL" Subject: Re: RIP Arthur C. Clarke Message-ID: One of my big fans, I got a copy of a Discovery program when he unveils fake ghost pictures using a pdp11/70 (modern computers), a graphic terminal and software to manipulate photo's. ^P skrev i meddelandet news:47e05beb$0$15182$607ed4bc@cv.net... > Subject says it all. > > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" > > http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:59:04 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: VMS Backup reverse date order restore Message-ID: In article , Dave Gullen writes: > Hi, > > I've recently discovered that a semicolon in the output file spec of a > backup command results in file versions restored in reverse date > order. I found this when trying to work out why a colleague's restore > command was doing this - it was just a typo, so a completely > serendipitous discovery. > > I've been trying to work out the 'VMS Logic' of this. Any > suggestions? Anyone seen this before? How does it work without the semicolon? It does it correctly, i.e. the newest file dates have the highest version numbers. If you specify a semicolon, you override the default version number. Presumably, it restores them starting with the highest version number, and the semicolon gives this ;1 when no files are there. The next highest version number gets ;2 etc. When restoring from a backup saveset, I normally just give a directory (and perhaps disk) as the output file spec. Occasionally, I might want to give a file name, but why just a version number (or *, since it has the same effect as no file spec in this case)? Note that you cannot restore just the highest version file from a saveset: BACKUP_Command /SELECT /SELECT /SELECT=(file-spec[,...]) Input Save-Set Qualifier Selects the specified files for processing. If you specify more than one file, separate the file specifications with commas and enclose the list in parentheses. Do not use a device specification when you define the files to be selected. You can use most standard wildcard characters, but you cannot use wildcard characters denoting latest version of files (;) and relative versions of files (;-n). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:43:36 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: VMS Backup reverse date order restore Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > How does it work without the semicolon? It does it correctly, i.e. the > newest file dates have the highest version numbers. If you specify a > semicolon, you override the default version number. Presumably, it > restores them starting with the highest version number, and the > semicolon gives this ;1 when no files are there. The next highest > version number gets ;2 etc. BACK/LOG will show that files are created and restored in reverse order if no file spec forcing another behaviour (like ;) is specified. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:30:06 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: In article , Fred Bach writes: > This one caught me by surprise. Apparently the problem has > been around for at least a year, looking back into old mail. > > Let's hope none of you are reading this on VMS Mail. ;-) > > On the other hand, if you are reading this on VMS mail, > and if the following text all reads correctly, please tell > me how you set up your VMS mail. > > We are running > Process Software MultiNet V5.1 Rev A-X, AlphaServer DS10 > 617 MHz, OpenVMS AXP V8.3 > > SYNOPSIS: > > VMS Mail translates tilde characters ("~") in the body of > the mail, into dollar sign characters for incoming mail. > > I think it is REALLY BAD FORM for an email program to > translate any legitimate incoming characters in a text > message into other text characters. > > In fact, unless we can turn this off, this 'feature' > makes me think that VMS Mail has, sadly, at last become > effectively unusable as a reliable communications tool. I don't think this is a VMS MAIL issue. I just tested it: #28 19-MAR-2008 21:28:19.31 WASTEBASKET From: ELIJAH::HELBIG "Phillip Helbig" To: HELBIG CC: HELBIG Subj: ~test~ ~test~ MAIL> I've certainly never noticed it, receive lots of mails with URLs including tildes, and have been using VMS MAIL for 16 years for practically all my email. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:30:52 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: Note that it IS a documented feature that ESCAPE SEQUENCES are translated to $ signs, at least when reading interactively in the character-cell interface. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:32:11 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: In article <47d9b9b3$0$5604$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > Not on V7.3-2 but V8.3 does exhibit your reported behavior. That might be it. Have V7.3-2 at home. Will test with V8.3 at work tomorrow. This is definitely wrong. It DOES show that VMS MAIL is still being "developed". While they're at it, maybe they can get rid of the bugs introduced when it was rewritten in C from BLISS. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Mar 2008 20:35:42 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <64dbouF2b27agU1@mid.individual.net> In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > Note that it IS a documented feature that ESCAPE SEQUENCES are > translated to $ signs, at least when reading interactively in the > character-cell interface. And since when is a tilde by itself or contained within a URL: an escape sequence? Why can't people just admit when they screw up? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:00:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <78532ccc-d291-4485-ab74-b4353e1ddc66@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Mar 19, 4:30=A0pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article , Fred Bach writes: > > =A0 =A0This one caught me by surprise. =A0Apparently the problem has > I don't think this is a VMS MAIL issue. =A0I just tested it: > > =A0 =A0 #28 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 19-MAR-2008 21:28:19.31 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 So what OpenVMS version did you use? It is an 8.3 bug. And if you say 8.3, then please tell us which MAIL.EXE (ident, link date, size). I just tried on EISNER and it look butt-ugly. MAIL> #1 19-MAR-2008 15:54:50.08 NEWMAIL From: "Hein van den Heuvel" To: CC: Subj: tilde $ test tilde $ test tilde $ test Those $ signs were all ~ when I send them out (and they still are) in the file. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:10:01 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: <47E18129.4040107@comcast.net> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article , Fred Bach writes: > > >> This one caught me by surprise. Apparently the problem has >> been around for at least a year, looking back into old mail. >> >> Let's hope none of you are reading this on VMS Mail. ;-) >> >> On the other hand, if you are reading this on VMS mail, >> and if the following text all reads correctly, please tell >> me how you set up your VMS mail. >> >> We are running >> Process Software MultiNet V5.1 Rev A-X, AlphaServer DS10 >> 617 MHz, OpenVMS AXP V8.3 >> >>SYNOPSIS: >> >> VMS Mail translates tilde characters ("~") in the body of >> the mail, into dollar sign characters for incoming mail. >> >> I think it is REALLY BAD FORM for an email program to >> translate any legitimate incoming characters in a text >> message into other text characters. >> >> In fact, unless we can turn this off, this 'feature' >> makes me think that VMS Mail has, sadly, at last become >> effectively unusable as a reliable communications tool. > > > I don't think this is a VMS MAIL issue. I just tested it: > > #28 19-MAR-2008 21:28:19.31 > WASTEBASKET > From: ELIJAH::HELBIG "Phillip Helbig" > To: HELBIG > CC: HELBIG > Subj: ~test~ > > ~test~ > > MAIL> > > I've certainly never noticed it, receive lots of mails with URLs > including tildes, and have been using VMS MAIL for 16 years for > practically all my email. > What version of VMS are you testing with? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:20:15 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org says... > In article , John Santos writes: > > > It seems to me if there is a terminal emulator (or a real physical terminal) > > that is having problems with escape sequences, the right place to fix this > > problem (assuming you want to) is in the terminal driver, and not in each > > individual application, such as MAIL. Maybe as an extension of the character > > set replacement stuff that is *already* in the terminal driver... > > Isn't that what TFF is for? > > That's what I was thinking of, but couldn't remember the name. I've never actually used it, so I don't know if it already does everything you would need to fix the broken terminal emulator, but it is probably pretty close. -- John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 01:37:30 -0400 From: Robert Deininger Subject: Re: VMS Mail translates incoming tilde character into a dollar sign. Message-ID: In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <022a67c3$0$5073$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > writes: > >Robert Deininger wrote: > > > >> Patch kits were requested today for these versions: > >> V8.2-1 I64 > >> V8.3 I64 and Alpha > >> > >> These kits would make the V8.3-1H1 functionality available on the > >> earlier VMS versions: > >> $ DEFINE/PROCESS MAIL$FILTER 1 > >> to keep "}" and "~" from being filtered out. > > > > > >Wouldn't it have been simpler for you guys and better for customers to > >provide a MAIL.EXE image that just didn't do that filtering ? Customers > >who don't need the filtering could then install that image and not have > >to worry about that truly pesky /PROCESS logical. > > Seconded. > > And then for the next VMS version that version which didn't filter printable > ASCII characters could be the default. > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University Way more interest in this topic than I expected! It's been fun reading all the speculations. Reality is quite a bit more boring. :-) Paul Anderson keeps walking past my cube and muttering about tildes scattered around on the floor... A bit of an update... Today I retrieved the supporting files from the original problem report from back in 2004. (I didn't have those files when I first looked at the problem last week.) The original problem was that terminals misbehaved when MAIL displayed some sample messages. I found those message files today. VMS was at V7.3-2 or so at the time, and we verified that V7.3-2 MAIL behaves badly with the sample files. Some common emulators that aren't considered particularly broken behave differently. The actual problem seems to be that some REAL control codes weren't being filtered out before sending the output to the terminal. I don't find any evidence of an actual "broken" terminal emulator in the original report, or in the supporting files. I think that was a red herring. But it generated enough confusion that the engineer added the right brace character, ASCII 7D, to the filtered character list. That was an intentional, but probably misguided, change. I think the tilde character, ASCII 7E, was an innocent bystander. It was in the wrong place at the wrong time -- namely, between "}" and DEL in the ASCII table. This set of changes also added filtering for the control codes that should have been removed all along. This "fixed" the original problem. I think the right brace was filtered out because it was incorrectly thought to be part of the problem. In reality, it probably just made the problem look different on different emulators. These changes eventually shipped in V8.2-1 and V8.3. The MAIL$FILTER logical name "workaround" was added later, and eventually shipped in V8.3-1H1. The workaround is tied to the process logical name table instead of LNM$FILE_DEV. This is peculiar and annoying, but was probably intentional. There was still the mistaken assumption that "}" really mattered for _some_ terminal emulator(s), and so a narrow, process-focused switch was needed. The original problem was reported as a potential security threat -- another red herring -- which may have led to excessive caution. That likely contributed to the bad decision to change the long-standing behavior for printable characters. The current workaround, with MAIL$FILTER, has been sitting around waiting for someone to want it since 2006 or so. It works around the only symptoms that anyone has actually noticed and reported, and can be shipped fairly quickly. That justifies sending it out, even though it's ugly and doesn't really fix the whole problem. I expect the whole thing will be cleaned up before the next VMS release, and MAIL$FILTER will just be an amusing bit of history. The tildes will go back on the screen where they belong, and Paul won't trip over them when he wanders the halls. -- Robert ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.159 ************************