INFO-VAX Sun, 20 Apr 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 220 Contents: April 18 Boot Camp Update ONE MONTH TO GO DBusted.INFO | Unblock MySpace | Unblock Youtube | Works very fast! Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Re: OpenVMS Boot Camp Update Re: OT: IBM looking at Macintosh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:02:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Subject: April 18 Boot Camp Update ONE MONTH TO GO Message-ID: <1ff619df-09c2-45ee-aaa6-ee25801b5fec@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> Dear Newsgroup, I did not forget, her is this weeks Boot Camp update. We usually have a newsgroup photo in front of the OpenVMS quilt some time during the week. Lets make it early this year (Sunday or Monday) so everyone knows everyone at the start of the week. We have one month to go before the OpenVMS Advanced Technical Boot Camp. And I am truly excited to give you this weeks update. http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/bootcamp - Overall website Agenda: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/symposium/may_2008/agenda.html this page will allow you connect to all session abstracts, bio, hotel floor plan and registration information. Please note the agenda is 12 pages long AM,PM its much easier if you print it. Current Registration is at 162 (155+7) we have 38 seats remaining. If you are planning on attending you should register now. Pre-seminars week of May 12th for attendees only. If you have registered you are confirmed. 1. CIFs/SAMBA session is now FULL. Thank you very much for your interest in this two day seminar. Your engineers will also be speakers during the boot camp. 2. Disaster Proof - How to Design, Test and Build a Disaster Tolerant OpenVMS Cluster. This two day seminar is held twice Monday and Tuesday and Thursday Friday (same seminar both times). Monday and Tuesday session has seven seats remaining. Thursday and Friday is FULL. 3. TCP/IP Exposed in response to attendees we have added one day to this session because there is so much information Wed-Fri. Your engineers will also be giving sessions at the boot camp but obviously not three days worth we have four seats left. 4. Storage - This is a four day seminar that will present the Theory of Storage Performance Management, Setup and Management of OpenVMS SAN based storage, Tools for Performance Data Collection, Analysis and Reporting, and then detailed presentations on the design, data collection, analysis and best practices for OpenVMS hosts, SANs, MSA storage, EVA storage arrays and XP disk arrays. Plenty of seats remaining 5. RTR - This training introduces you to the key concepts of RTR, i.e. the different objects making up RTR, but also how to install, manage, and to do simple troubleshooting. Lab-exercises is also provided to further reinforce the training. In the end the student should be able to install and manage an RTR-environment. No prior knowledge is needed, but familiarity of middleware and/or messaging/transaction concepts is useful. Plenty of seats remaining ---------------------------- So where are the attendees for the Boot Camp from? From 20 different countries. Approximately 50% of the audience have never been to a boot camp before, 84 attendees are coming from outside the US. In no special order England - 8 Russia - 11 Sweden - 24 Austria - 3 Argentina 1 Scotland - 1 Canada - 5 Switzerland - 6 Netherlands - 6 Singapore - 1 Lithuania - 1 Germany - 8 Australia - 1 Belgium - 1 Ireland - 2 Barbados - 1 Norway - 1 France - 2 Australia - 1 US - 71 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:00:55 -0700 (PDT) From: papi Subject: DBusted.INFO | Unblock MySpace | Unblock Youtube | Works very fast! Message-ID: DBusted.INFO is new proxy and only proxy with which you can't get busted. Its very fast and you can easily use it in school, work and very simple you can unblock MYSPACE & YouTube and many other sites http://dbusted.info ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:59:14 -0400 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: <4809FAB2.11578.3450A2A@infovax.stanq.com> On 17 Apr 2008 at 11:27, Marty Kuhrt wrote: > Can you put more than 127G on it, or are the blocks reported the only > ones you get? It's a 200 GB disk, but VMS shows only the 127 GB. Here are the complete details: $ sh dev/full dqa1 Disk FAST$DQA1:, device type Maxtor 4G160J8, is online, mounted, file-oriented device, shareable, served to cluster via MSCP Server, error logging is enabled. Error count 0 Operations completed 1493 Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM] Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W Reference count 1 Default buffer size 512 Total blocks 268435455 Sectors per track 128 Total cylinders 16384 Tracks per cylinder 128 Logical Volume Size 268435455 Expansion Size Limit 271589376 Volume label "VMS_DIST" Relative volume number 0 Cluster size 258 Transaction count 1 Free blocks 46469928 Maximum files allowed 518215 Extend quantity 5 Mount count 1 Mount status System Cache name "_FAST$DKA100:XQPCACHE" Extent cache size 64 Maximum blocks in extent cache 4646992 File ID cache size 64 Blocks in extent cache 7998 Quota cache size 0 Maximum buffers in FCP cache 4600 Volume owner UIC [CRISP] Vol Prot S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD Volume Status: ODS-2, subject to mount verification, write-back caching enabled. --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: 19 Apr 2008 21:23:34 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: <480a62d6$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <4809FAB2.11578.3450A2A@infovax.stanq.com>, "Stanley F. Quayle" writes: >On 17 Apr 2008 at 11:27, Marty Kuhrt wrote: >> Can you put more than 127G on it, or are the blocks reported the only >> ones you get? > >It's a 200 GB disk, but VMS shows only the 127 GB. Here are the complete details: > >$ sh dev/full dqa1 > >Disk FAST$DQA1:, device type Maxtor 4G160J8, is online, mounted, file-oriented That seems to be a MAXTOR Diamond Max 160GB (not 200GB) disk (which I also had). My pair (yes, both) died shortly after I put DNEWS on the disk (the first died - in the first month - the day after I started running DNEWS on it, the second disk died - in the last month of the 3y warranty - 2 days after I started running DNEWS on it). They may work well as data cemeteries for years, but if you use them just like SCSI disks, they die almost immediately. -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:42:39 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: > > My pair (yes, both) died shortly after I put DNEWS on the disk (the first > died - in the first month - the day after I started running DNEWS on it, > the second disk died - in the last month of the 3y warranty - 2 days after > I started running DNEWS on it). They may work well as data cemeteries for > years, but if you use them just like SCSI disks, they die almost immediately. My guess is that the IDE disks are more sensitive to heat, so if you do not have good ventilation on them, or are in a warmer room, you can expect a higher failure rate. As I understand the issue, accessing the IDE devices past the 127 GB limit requires putting the device in UDMA mode. UDMA mode has stricter cabling requirements than DMA mode. I have seen DS10s with UDMA cables and ones with normal DMA cables. My DS10 at home has a UDMA cable. HP never qualified UDMA mode on the Alpha Servers with built in IDE controllers, as production of Alpha Servers is over, I do not expect it to happen. It is possible that a hobbyist or a third party may supply a DQDRIVER that will support larger IDE drives, but I would not count on that. It takes quite a bit of tests to really qualify a disk driver. And it appears with IDE disk devices that they have programmable settings, which are negotiated between the driver an the device. As with SCSI, particularly early SCSI, not all devices negotiate in good faith. So some disks will work and some will not. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:31:51 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: Stanley F. Quayle wrote: > On 17 Apr 2008 at 11:27, Marty Kuhrt wrote: >> Can you put more than 127G on it, or are the blocks reported the only >> ones you get? > > It's a 200 GB disk, but VMS shows only the 127 GB. Here are the complete details: > > $ sh dev/full dqa1 > > Disk FAST$DQA1:, device type Maxtor 4G160J8, is online, mounted, file-oriented > device, shareable, served to cluster via MSCP Server, error logging is > enabled. > > Error count 0 Operations completed 1493 > Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM] > Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W > Reference count 1 Default buffer size 512 > Total blocks 268435455 Sectors per track 128 > Total cylinders 16384 Tracks per cylinder 128 > Logical Volume Size 268435455 Expansion Size Limit 271589376 > > Volume label "VMS_DIST" Relative volume number 0 > Cluster size 258 Transaction count 1 > Free blocks 46469928 Maximum files allowed 518215 > Extend quantity 5 Mount count 1 > Mount status System Cache name "_FAST$DKA100:XQPCACHE" > Extent cache size 64 Maximum blocks in extent cache 4646992 > File ID cache size 64 Blocks in extent cache 7998 > Quota cache size 0 Maximum buffers in FCP cache 4600 > Volume owner UIC [CRISP] Vol Prot S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD This appears to be a common limitation in older IDE host bus adapters. Sun Microsystems IDE controllers share this limitation, often to the amazement of their customers. It was not until the last three or four years that IDE drives big enough to reveal this limitation existed. Truly modern hardware; e.g. any PC of recent manufacture, can support drives of 300 GB or more! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:34:43 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: <480a7381$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Truly modern hardware; e.g. any PC of recent manufacture, can support > drives of 300 GB or more! 750 GB and 1 TB disks are out there. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:42:57 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: <57idndT-ft0O6JfVnZ2dnUVZ_vninZ2d@comcast.com> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> Truly modern hardware; e.g. any PC of recent manufacture, can support >> drives of 300 GB or more! > > 750 GB and 1 TB disks are out there. > > Arne > Far in excess of my modest needs, and probably my budget as well! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:54:54 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: <480a864b$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>> Truly modern hardware; e.g. any PC of recent manufacture, can support >>> drives of 300 GB or more! >> >> 750 GB and 1 TB disks are out there. > > Far in excess of my modest needs, and probably my budget as well! You can buy a 750 GB SATA disk for 140 USD. Not super cheap but I will not call it expensive. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 00:44:41 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: "John E. Malmberg" writes: >As I understand the issue, accessing the IDE devices past the 127 GB >limit requires putting the device in UDMA mode. UDMA mode has stricter >cabling requirements than DMA mode. I have seen DS10s with UDMA cables >and ones with normal DMA cables. My DS10 at home has a UDMA cable. >HP never qualified UDMA mode on the Alpha Servers with built in IDE >controllers, as production of Alpha Servers is over, I do not expect it >to happen. It also requires driver changes, to use different transfer modes to access the higher blocks. >It is possible that a hobbyist or a third party may supply a DQDRIVER >that will support larger IDE drives, but I would not count on that. >It takes quite a bit of tests to really qualify a disk driver. I started looking at doing this to keep my skills up but didn't get hardly anywhere. (I once did disk driver work for VMS Engineering). I would have to start with the rather out-of-date DQDRIVER source on the freeware. I also heard (apparently incorrectly) that VMS Engineering was going to upgrade DQDRIVER themselves, and quit then. >And it appears with IDE disk devices that they have programmable >settings, which are negotiated between the driver an the device. As >with SCSI, particularly early SCSI, not all devices negotiate in good >faith. So some disks will work and some will not. That also depends on exactly what chips are used are used with the DS10(L) and other IDE-aware alphas. An add-on PCI board should take care of that if necessary. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:49:12 -0700 From: Marty Kuhrt Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: <-oydnV9EVprUVpfVnZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@speakeasy.net> Michael Moroney wrote: > "John E. Malmberg" writes: > >> As I understand the issue, accessing the IDE devices past the 127 GB >> limit requires putting the device in UDMA mode. UDMA mode has stricter >> cabling requirements than DMA mode. I have seen DS10s with UDMA cables >> and ones with normal DMA cables. My DS10 at home has a UDMA cable. > >> HP never qualified UDMA mode on the Alpha Servers with built in IDE >> controllers, as production of Alpha Servers is over, I do not expect it >> to happen. > > It also requires driver changes, to use different transfer modes to access > the higher blocks. > >> It is possible that a hobbyist or a third party may supply a DQDRIVER >> that will support larger IDE drives, but I would not count on that. >> It takes quite a bit of tests to really qualify a disk driver. > > I started looking at doing this to keep my skills up but didn't get hardly > anywhere. (I once did disk driver work for VMS Engineering). I would > have to start with the rather out-of-date DQDRIVER source on the freeware. > I also heard (apparently incorrectly) that VMS Engineering was going to > upgrade DQDRIVER themselves, and quit then. While HP engineers understood how to update the DQDRIVER to handle the 48 bit addressing necessary to get past 128G, they could not get the OK to validate it. No validation means no "support". No support means they would not be allowed to release it into the wild. Got some spare time? You could rewrite the DQDRIVER to do it. I have not done any driver work for a decade, and don't really care to do this one to make a point. If I wanted to make this 500G drive work on my test/dev hobbyist VMS systems, I'd get a SCSI to SATA adapter and try again. For me it is not worth the time, or energy, to make a new DQDRIVER for this one time test. I have too many projects that I work on that make no money to take on another one, thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 01:11:21 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ? Message-ID: <480ad0b5$0$12307$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Marty Kuhrt wrote: > While HP engineers understood how to update the DQDRIVER to handle the > 48 bit addressing necessary to get past 128G, they could not get the OK > to validate it. On the MaC side, the OS drivers support bigger IDE disks, but my old mAc's hardware doesn't. (or so I was told) Would it really make a difference if they upgraded the DQDRIVER to support 48 bits if the hardware didn't support it ? Or is this an issue similar to the Vaxstation 3100 where only the first disk is stuck with the limit, and subsequent drives have greater independance from the hardware and can support bigger disks ? ------------------------------ Date: 19 Apr 2008 20:13:15 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Message-ID: <480a525b@news.langstoeger.at> In article <480a1a19$0$31244$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >But of course, we all know that HP isn't going to magically allocate the >development budgets and rehire the poeple it laid off. And iff they fix FTP, then it won't help sFTP (which we're all using now instead of FTP) either. Sigh -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:26:00 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Message-ID: <1208629068_265@isp.n> JF Mezei wrote: > Jeff Campbell wrote: > >> ftp> dir >> A^.B^.C.D;2 1/16 19-APR-2008 06:12:44 [xxxx] (RWED,RWED,RE,) > >> ftp> get "a.b.c.d" > > > If you are to do an NLIST (the official command to get the filenames), > you will also see "A^.B^.C.D;2" > NLIST does not work from the command prompt: C:\>ftp n8wxs.com Connected to n8wxs.com. 220 pws600.n8wxs.com FTP Server (Version 5.6) Ready. User (n8wxs.com:(none)): xxxx 331 Username xxxx requires a Password Password: 230 User logged in. ftp> list Invalid command. ftp> nlist Invalid command. ftp> ? Commands may be abbreviated. Commands are: ! delete literal prompt send ? debug ls put status append dir mdelete pwd trace ascii disconnect mdir quit type bell get mget quote user binary glob mkdir recv verbose bye hash mls remotehelp cd help mput rename close lcd open rmdir ftp> ftp> bye 221 Goodbye. C:\> > The problem is that NLIST is meant to provide a list of files in the > exact representation that can be used to request that file. No FTP > client will know to translate the NLIST output of A^.B^.C.D;2 into > "a.b.c.d" in the request. Agreed. The TCPIP FTP server should deal with 'illegal' characters both directions - inbound using the extended file name specification escape sequences, and - outbound replacing the escape sequences with the original characters. Seems like a no brainer to me. > > If HP is no longer going to release TCPIP Services for VAX, then it > should come out and officially say so, then then allocate mega > development budget to get TCPIP Services to adopt the stuff to support > not only ODS5, but also those ACME services for user authentication and > logging/intrusion detection. > > As long as Tcpip Services was still developped for VAX, one could argue > that they couldn't start using Alpha only system services since they > weren't available VAX. That excuse is now wearing quite thin. > > But of course, we all know that HP isn't going to magically allocate the > development budgets and rehire the poeple it laid off. Jeff ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:40:17 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Message-ID: <480a3c91$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Jeff Campbell wrote: > NLIST does not work from the command prompt: > > C:\>ftp n8wxs.com > Connected to n8wxs.com. > 220 pws600.n8wxs.com FTP Server (Version 5.6) Ready. > User (n8wxs.com:(none)): xxxx > 331 Username xxxx requires a Password > Password: > 230 User logged in. > ftp> list > Invalid command. > ftp> nlist > Invalid command. LIST and NLST are not commands to the FTP utility but commands in the FTP protocol. In the windows FTP utility you use dir and ls. dir -> LIST ls -> NLST Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:02:05 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Mozilla (et al.) v. TCPIP FTP server Message-ID: <08041915020593_2020CE0A@antinode.org> From: Jeff Campbell > JF Mezei wrote: > > [...] > > If you are to do an NLIST (the official command to get the filenames), > > you will also see "A^.B^.C.D;2" > > NLIST does not work from the command prompt: First, it's NLST, not NLIST. Second, it's an FTP server command, not an FTP client command. Sadly, it's more complicated than some, so you can't use "quote NLST" to see it work. Turning on "debug", however, will show you the commands being used, and then DIRECTORY /BRIEF (on a TCPIP client) or "ls" (almost anywhere) might show you NLST in action. > ftp> ? For a good time, try "quote help". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:49:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Subject: Re: OpenVMS Boot Camp Update Message-ID: <0fd90257-024b-46ad-91e0-b466e44c39ec@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com> On Apr 17, 8:21=A0pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Sue wrote: > > On Apr 17, 1:40 pm, "johnhreinha...@yahoo.com" > > wrote: > >> On Apr 17, 11:39 am, Rich Jordan wrote: > > >>> On Apr 16, 7:42 pm, Sue wrote: > >>>> On Apr 11, 10:24 am, Sue wrote: > >>>>> As promised here is theBootCampupdate for this week which we are > >>>>> happy with. > >>>>> Session Abstracts, Keynotes are on the web site. > >>>>>http://h71000.www7.hp.com/symposium/index.html > >>>>> Current Registration is 135 > >>>>> Scholarships Available HP 5 > >>>>> Scholarship Available Partners 2 > >>>>> Seats remaining 58 > >>>>> Pre-Seminars > >>>>> Thursday - Friday DT Pr-Seminar - =A0two seats - 18 People > >>>>> Monday and Tuesday DT seminar (same session) - 9 seats > >>>>> CIFs Seminar - one seat remaining - Thursday and Friday > >>>>> TCP/IP -Wed Friday - 5 seats remaining > >>>>> Storage session - plenty of seats > >>>>> RTR - plenty of seats. > >>>>> Where are the customers coming from > >>>>> Sweden 20 > >>>>> Russia 19 > >>>>> Netherlands 7 > >>>>> Switzerland 7 > >>>>> England 6 > >>>>> Germany 6 > >>>>> Austria 3 > >>>>> Canada 3 > >>>>> France 2 > >>>>> Ireland 2 > >>>>> Argentina 1 > >>>>> Australia 1 > >>>>> Barbados 1 > >>>>> Belgium 1 > >>>>> Lithuania 1 > >>>>> Norway 1 > >>>>> Scotland 1 > >>>>> US - everyone else > >>>> Just an update for everyone we have 42 seats remaining for the Boot > >>>> Camp > >>> Wish I could go. > >> Ditto- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > This is to anyone that would care to respond. And you can respond > > either here or to my hotmail account or HP account. =A0What would be > > your reason for not attending the Boot Camp or if you =A0can not attend > > the HPTF. =A0No one is asking me to do a survey it just matters to me > > what the issue is. > > > Thanks, > > Sue > > > . > > It seems an extravagance for a retired System Manager who is now only a > =A0 hobbyist! =A0I used to enjoy going to DECUS symposia in the days when = I > had an employer to pay for it.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Thank you Richard and to the folks that sent email (Dave, Norm and Tad) Sue ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:37:22 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: IBM looking at Macintosh Message-ID: On Apr 19, 12:05 pm, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <$yqIL4$wm...@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > > In article <66q19aF2ks2a...@mid.individual.net>, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > >> What could possibly make IBM want to do anything at all with VMS? > > > IBM knows good stuff when they see it. And they know how to market. > > And? Has IBM ever expressed an interest in being the owner of VMS? > I didn't think so. > > And, of course, even if they did, the point still remains that VMS is not > now and probably never will be for sale. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > billg...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include C'mon, Bill, be fair. The question wasn't whether IBM was likely or interested in VMS. The question was > >> What could possibly make IBM want to do anything at all with VMS? and the answer was quite appropriate. As you say, that is apparently not enough for them to show interest, and your last point, while it may well be true, does not invalid Bob's answer in the least. So I'm not saying your points are wrong. I'm just saying that Bob's answer was a good answer. Now if the question were, instead, "What would be enough for IBM to actually attempt a purchase of VMS?" then your criticisms would be quite appropriate. But that wasn't the question. The fact that IBM apparently does support at least some VMS installations means that it already does have something to do with VMS. So the premise of the (original) question isn't even right in the first place. AEF UPPERCASE AND PROUD OF IT! ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.220 ************************