INFO-VAX Sat, 09 Aug 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 432 Contents: Re: Example: VMS to Web Browser "push" technology Re: Expiration date on Files Re: Expiration date on Files Re: Expiration date on Files Re: Expiration date on Files Re: Expiration date on Files Re: SSH ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 10:59:26 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Example: VMS to Web Browser "push" technology Message-ID: Hi again, > 2) Telnet to manson.vistech.net. (If you don't already have an account on > the Deathrow cluster then please use Username: DEMO Password: USER) and > then: > > $set term/width=132 > $run sys$users:[users.tier3.web]demo_udp_msg > For those of you who have tried, please let me point out that you cannot use the DEMO username on MANSON to access either: - http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/demo_client_web.html or http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/demo_client_flash.html as a RighsList identifier (TIER3_QUEUE_DEMO) is needed for access. To view those two examples you need to use the following credentials: - Username: TIER3_DEMO Password: QUEUE Your existing account (or the DEMO account) is valid for running (and viewing) the "pusher" part of the push-technology demonstration as well as T3$EXAMPLES. Sorry for the confusion. Cheers Richard Maher PS. If you're a Hobbyist and would much prefer to try this stuff out on your own boxes, then please contact me for a Hobbyist installation kit. (An updated version of which we hope to cut this week) "Richard Maher" wrote in message news:g7g0i0$qm1$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au... > Hi Jan-Erik, > > > OK, tested sucessfuly. Some comments below. > > Thanks. I knew I could rely on you. > > > Interesting... :-) > > Don't forget that with subnets you can also use the UDP "broadcast" > capability (and not have to subscribe directly to the server at all) and > Multicasting would be even better (If you are using Signed-Applets or > stand-alone applications on the client. Why an UNsigned-applet can't join a > Multicast group and receive messages from the codebase is a mystery to me.) > > > Now I logged into my DSL/NAT router and forwarded port 1234 > > to my office PC client NAT'ed address (a 192.168.x.x address). > > You're a champion! Thanks for letting me know, I'll pass it on to someone > else who was asking. > > > Entered my dyndns-domain for my office DSL router. > > Worked like charm... :-) > > > > Stock prices begun to arrive and the "Tier3 Messages" > > popup poped up... > > Result! > > > Yep, just a few 10's of a second delay from Deathrow to my > > "Tier3 Messages" popup. Nice. > > > > I'm using a public ISP in Sweden, b.t.w... > > Yep, I have to admit to being impressed with the performance of traffic > emanating from a crappy VAX (in Florida I believe?) A more impressive > demonstration being the auto-suggest for the VMS Queue Names in > http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/demo_client_web.html but this is still > pretty cool nonetheless! Just goes to show what can be achieved when all the > http/webserver/interpreter/process-management crud is removed. > > > What is the "Bid for the Stock" button supposed to do ? > > It's just a stub to say "This is where you'd put the code to do something > useful". It is also a demonstration of how the Event Dispatching Thread > (EDT) has not been blocked or hindered by the behind the scenes stock-price > and message processing! > > In a real-world example I'd see things happening something like this: - > > . You'd logon to your Tier3 application as illustrated in > http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/demo_client_flash.html > . Your server application would offer Message-Subscription as one of it's > services and tell a detached VMS process to include your client's IP > Address/port in its list of customers > . Your user is now free to perform normal Application-X processing > . If the user sees something like a stock-price that they want to bid on, > they click on the button and the buy/sell order is sent via your Tier3 pipe. > . UDP messages having no SSL protection or sequencing or reliability > gurantees. things such as Sequence Numbers, Heart Beats etc need to be > incorporated into the design > . OPCOM or adhoc messages are relayed to all users/subscribers by sending > the messages via a mailbox to the local VMS detached process > > Obviously the above is just one suggestion, and I didn't wish to clutter up > a simple example with application-specific idiosyncrasies, so what I tried > to convey with DEMO_UDP_MSG.COB is just how easy this is from the VMS side, > and with Tier3Pager.java and Tier3Talk.java just how easy the client side is > to develope! Stock-Prices? Chat-Sessions? WhiteBoards? OPCOM messages? It's > all good! And you don't need Tier3 (or any other middleware at all) to > obtain this functionality. Obviously the sensible among you will see where > Tier3 comes in (Click that button :-) but it is an option pack. > > In a nutshell, UDP tells you when there is something to do, and your Tier3 > TCP/IP persistent connection is used to verify what's going on and perform > the work if need be. > > Obviously with Intranets, or now more importantly with IPsec, a whole lot > more in the way of functionality and options is available to all of us! > > Cheers Richard Maher > > "Jan-Erik Söderholm" wrote in message > news:FjCmk.1547$U5.901@newsb.telia.net... > > OK, tested sucessfuly. Some comments below. > > > > Interesting... :-) > > > > Best Regards, > > Jan-Erik. > > > > Richard Maher wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > If you'd like to see an example of a bog-standard VMS server that sends > UDP > > > messages to Web-client subscribers, then please follow these > instructions: - > > > > > > 1) Click on the following link and read the instructions: > > > http://manson.vistech.net/~tier3/tier3pager.html > > > > OK, that bringed up the "Tier3 push Integration Demo" page in > > a new tab in my Firefox. So far so good... > > > > > 2) Telnet to manson.vistech.net. (If you don't already have an account > on > > > the Deathrow cluster then please use Username: DEMO Password: USER) and > > > then: > > > > > > $set term/width=132 > > > $run sys$users:[users.tier3.web]demo_udp_msg > > > > No problem, got the address/domain prompt. > > > > Now I logged into my DSL/NAT router and forwarded port 1234 > > to my office PC client NAT'ed address (a 192.168.x.x address). > > > > > 3) Enter the IP address of your client node. Your "stock-monitor" from > step > > > 1 should now spring into life with ransom stock-prices generated at 2sec > > > intervals. (NATed clients will find this bit problematic :-) > > > > Entered my dyndns-domain for my office DSL router. > > Worked like charm... :-) > > > > Stock prices begun to arrive and the "Tier3 Messages" > > popup poped up... > > > > > > > > 4) Enter any adhoc messages that you wish to appear in the seperate Java > > > Frame on the client. > > > > Yep, just a few 10's of a second delay from Deathrow to my > > "Tier3 Messages" popup. Nice. > > > > I'm using a public ISP in Sweden, b.t.w... > > > > What is the "Bid for the Stock" button supposed to do ? > > > > Jan-Erik. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:25:34 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Expiration date on Files Message-ID: <2Z1nk.1576$U5.919@newsb.telia.net> BHall wrote: > I just noticed my "Google Groups" post got a little mangled. The > syntax is /volume_characteristics=access_dates, don't know where the > "3D" came from. "=3D" is the "Content-Transfer-Encoding=quoted-printable" representation of "=" in mails. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoted-printable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME#Content-Transfer-Encoding ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:27:47 -0800 From: glen herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: Expiration date on Files Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: (snip) > For volumes not using retention, setting the expiration date to the > 0 value mimics part of the UNIX touch command, since this updates the > modified date: > $ touch == "set file/expiration_date=17-nov-1858 I remember some years ago working with VMS on a system that used expiration dates. I would once in a while do something like set file/expiration_date=31-dec-1999 *.*;* (that was about 1986 so 1999 was far enough in the future.) What I never figured out was why I was allowed to do that. If they are trying to expire files that aren't accessed often enough, then I shouldn't be allowed to set it. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 02:27:52 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Expiration date on Files Message-ID: glen herrmannsfeldt writes: >Bob Koehler wrote: >(snip) >> For volumes not using retention, setting the expiration date to the >> 0 value mimics part of the UNIX touch command, since this updates the >> modified date: >> $ touch == "set file/expiration_date=17-nov-1858 >I remember some years ago working with VMS on a system >that used expiration dates. I would once in a while >do something like >set file/expiration_date=31-dec-1999 *.*;* >(that was about 1986 so 1999 was far enough in the future.) >What I never figured out was why I was allowed to do that. >If they are trying to expire files that aren't accessed often >enough, then I shouldn't be allowed to set it. That wouldn't be a problem for a smart system manager. The same batch job that deletes 'expired' files could also delete without mercy (or backup :-) any file whose expiration date was far enough into the future that it could not be set via "normal" means. I think the expiration field was just never well thought out. Other operating systems I used had a simple 'last access' date field, and batch jobs to free disk space could just delete files whose last access date was before a certain time ago. There was no need to "hack" that with the volume retention to get the expiration date ~= the last access date. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:35:48 -0500 From: Chris Scheers Subject: Re: Expiration date on Files Message-ID: Michael Moroney wrote: > glen herrmannsfeldt writes: > >> Bob Koehler wrote: >> (snip) > >>> For volumes not using retention, setting the expiration date to the >>> 0 value mimics part of the UNIX touch command, since this updates the >>> modified date: > >>> $ touch == "set file/expiration_date=17-nov-1858 > >> I remember some years ago working with VMS on a system >> that used expiration dates. I would once in a while >> do something like > >> set file/expiration_date=31-dec-1999 *.*;* > >> (that was about 1986 so 1999 was far enough in the future.) > >> What I never figured out was why I was allowed to do that. >> If they are trying to expire files that aren't accessed often >> enough, then I shouldn't be allowed to set it. > > That wouldn't be a problem for a smart system manager. The same batch job > that deletes 'expired' files could also delete without mercy (or backup :-) > any file whose expiration date was far enough into the future that it > could not be set via "normal" means. > > I think the expiration field was just never well thought out. Other > operating systems I used had a simple 'last access' date field, and batch > jobs to free disk space could just delete files whose last access date was > before a certain time ago. There was no need to "hack" that with the > volume retention to get the expiration date ~= the last access date. The way I see it, expiration dates were well thought out. A "last access" field needs to be updated any time the file is touched, even if it is just read. Remember that directory lookups can be cached, but writing an access time can not. This means that reading a lot of files results in a lot of writes to the disk. Since the expiration is defined as a range, the disk only needs to be updated when the access falls outside of that range. For certain mixes of I/O, this can result in a considerable reduction in disk writes. Also remember that this was implemented when disks were much slower than they are now. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com Fax: 817-237-3074 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:35:20 -0500 From: Chris Scheers Subject: Re: Expiration date on Files Message-ID: <489D1078.1090000@applied-synergy.com> Michael Moroney wrote: > glen herrmannsfeldt writes: > >> Bob Koehler wrote: >> (snip) > >>> For volumes not using retention, setting the expiration date to the >>> 0 value mimics part of the UNIX touch command, since this updates the >>> modified date: > >>> $ touch == "set file/expiration_date=17-nov-1858 > >> I remember some years ago working with VMS on a system >> that used expiration dates. I would once in a while >> do something like > >> set file/expiration_date=31-dec-1999 *.*;* > >> (that was about 1986 so 1999 was far enough in the future.) > >> What I never figured out was why I was allowed to do that. >> If they are trying to expire files that aren't accessed often >> enough, then I shouldn't be allowed to set it. > > That wouldn't be a problem for a smart system manager. The same batch job > that deletes 'expired' files could also delete without mercy (or backup :-) > any file whose expiration date was far enough into the future that it > could not be set via "normal" means. > > I think the expiration field was just never well thought out. Other > operating systems I used had a simple 'last access' date field, and batch > jobs to free disk space could just delete files whose last access date was > before a certain time ago. There was no need to "hack" that with the > volume retention to get the expiration date ~= the last access date. The way I see it, expiration dates were well thought out. A "last access" field needs to be updated any time the file is touched, even if it is just read. Remember that directory lookups can be cached, but writing an access time can not. This means that reading a lot of files results in a lot of writes to the disk. Since the expiration is defined as a range, the disk only needs to be updated when the access falls outside of that range. For certain mixes of I/O, this can result in a considerable reduction in disk writes. Also remember that this was implemented when disks were much slower than they are now. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com Fax: 817-237-3074 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:11:26 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: SSH Message-ID: Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Steven M. Schweda wrote: >> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= >> >> >>> Just setup SSH on my system. VMS 8.2, TCPIP 5.6 >>> >>> Using "Reflection for UNIX and VMS" >>> version 14.0 on the client (Win-XP). >>> >>> One session is just fine, but when I open a new >>> reflection Windows and try to login, both >>> sessions are logged off. >> >> What happens if you use some other SSH client (like, say, SSH on the >> VMS system or on some handy UNIX-like system)? Does the fault lie with >> the VMS SSH server or with the Reflection client? >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info >> 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 >> Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 > > > I enabled SSH Client also. > > Then made some "SSH localhost" to create new > SSH sessions localy, and *that* worked at least... > > But as sson as as tried to create a second > Relfection session, they all "died". Reflection > says "". > > Tomorrow I'll try with the Putty emulator which I > think also supports SSH. Just tried with PuTTY. *It* can open multiple SSH sessions to my 8.2 VMS system. No problem. Reflections still terminates the first session when the second is started, ends up with both sesions terminated. The PyTTY sessions are uneffected and are still connected and logged in. The SSH log files still have : > Thu 07 23:02:30 ERROR: FATAL ERROR: GETPTY ast_pending:1 > dsa10:[sys0.syscommon.][sysexe]tcpip$ssh_sshd2.exe[38229]: > FATAL: GETPTY ast_pending:1 > %TCPIP-F-SSH_FATAL, non-specific fatal error condition Well, I'm lost, I guess. I'll try to see if it's possible to find some mail address to Attachemate... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.432 ************************