Sharon Elewa GoogleBong

INFO-VAX Fri, 15 Aug 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 444 Contents: Avoid printing of SYS$ANNOUNCE ? comp.os.vms information Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Re: DSPP & OpenVMS Re: DSPP & OpenVMS Re: DSPP & OpenVMS Re: Example: VMS to Web Browser "push" technology RE: Example: VMS to Web Browser "push" technology Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Re: NFS - OpenVMS to OpenVMS Re: NFS - OpenVMS to OpenVMS OT: Central Repository - File Distribution Question (AIX) Re: OT: Central Repository - File Distribution Question (AIX) Re: problem to backup and delete files Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses, was: Re: OpenVMS in the media Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000? Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:23:26 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Avoid printing of SYS$ANNOUNCE ? Message-ID: I used the SYSMAN ALF feature to set up a hardwired terminal line to automatically log into a captive account (no Username: prompt) that automatically runs an application when someone presses return on the terminal. There are UAF flags to do things like disable the SYS$WELCOME message, but none for disabling SYS$ANNOUNCE. (Since SYS$ANNOUNCE normally gets displayed before the Username: prompt, it makes sense that there can't be a NOANNOUNCE flag). Does anyone know of a way to disable the display of SYS$ANNOUNCE on a terminal-by-terminal basis? Related question: Is there a way to disable the "logged out" message at the end when a process is logged out? Actually I know an answer to this, $ STOP/ID=0. But that seems so crude, is there _another_ way to do that? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:20:18 GMT From: Laura.Verjan@Gmail.com Subject: comp.os.vms information Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --41939260582251119560693817742027425639702603618491 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://para.googlebong.com --41939260582251119560693817742027425639702603618491 Content-type: text/html; name="kvwcpo.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="kvwcpo.htm" Sharon Elewa GoogleBong --41939260582251119560693817742027425639702603618491-- should come to Queen Hortense's maid-of-honor, as he was in the habit of doing from time to time, for the purpose of discussing the queen's interests with her. "Sire," said she to the czar, "the Faubourg St. Germain regards your majesty's zeal in the queen's behalf with great jealousy. It has even caused Count Nesselrode much concern. 'Our emperor,' said he to me, recently, 'goes to Malmaison much too often; the high circles of society, and the diplomatic body, are already in dismay about it; it is feared that he is there subjected to influences to which policy requires he should not be exposed.'" "This is characteristic of my Nesselrode," replied the emperor, laughing, "he is so easily disquieted. What do I care for the Faubourg St. Germain? It speaks ill enough for these ladies that they have not made a conquest of me! I prefer the noble qualities of the soul to all outward appearances; and I find united in the Empress Josephine, in the Queen of Holland, and in Prince Eugene, all that is admirable and lovable. I am better pleased to be here with you in quiet, confidential intercourse, than with those who really demean themselves as though they were crazed, and who, instead of enjoying the triumph we have prepared for them, are only intent on destroying their enemies, and have commenced with those who formerly accorded th ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:52:21 -0700 (PDT) From: bugs@signedness.org Subject: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Message-ID: <488fbb7a-2459-4753-904a-7ecd5193bdc4@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 14, 2:42=A0am, "Tim E. Sneddon" wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article <9781c047-761a-4923-9aab-8c1a32ff7...@x35g2000hsb.googlegrou= ps.com>, samp...@gmail.com writes: > >>> I would have thought a CLI overflow to have been tried by at least a = few > >>> at DEFCON9 because the system automagically created service-rich user > >>> accounts with of course DCL which the hackers were then free to abuse= . > > >>> We were not scrutinizing buffers however and any such overflow may in > >>> our case have done nothing harmful (by luck or design). I think it wa= s > >>> version 7.1-? if it makes a difference. Did the gentleman specify any > >>> versions? > >> Default 8.3 install on an Alpha according to the presentation notes. > >> To reproduce this, apparently one is to enter exactly 511 characters > >> of input, then press the up arrow three times and wait - a core dump > >> follows. > > > I know you didn't make the claim but you should first test it out befor= e > > brandishing bullshit here. > > > I've tried to reproduce the claimed results from your posted instructio= n > > and it does NOT produce a "core dump". > > This isn't entirely bullshit. I reported it, case number AH800710. > > I saw the original post regarding the "execution of priviledged code" > and was tempted to reply, but I didn't bother. However, I am now :-) > > The issue never allowed execution of priv. code (certainly not as > far as I could see). The issue was simply a miss calculation in the > RECALL ring buffer that resulted in an access violation. This seemed > to coincide with the extension of the DCL command line buffer. Yes, > the process does crash. Yes, it was a pain. However, it happened so > infrequently and never actually did anything serious that I didn't > report it for the first few months. > > The version of VMS is also incorrect. I reported the problem under > OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 in June, 2004. > > Tim. I googled the case number but didn't find anything except this thread, so I'm not 100% sure what it refers to. But not entirely bullshit and never exploitable? Well if you are talking about our bugs then you may want to watch these videos: http://www.signedness.org/misc/openvms_local_install_exploit.avi http://www.signedness.org/misc/openvms_local_tcpip_exploit.avi http://www.signedness.org/misc/openvms_local_telnet_exploit.avi Can't be bothered to upload the finger video atm, and its easy enough to reproduce. Just fingering a users whose .plan file contains %n%n%n%n %n%n%n or something similar should do it. and while I'm on the topic of the finger exploit, there seem to be some confusion about it. We exploited it on VAX but Alpha is vulnerable too (and I'm guessing Itanium too but not verified). The command line bug may or may not be exploitable on VAX (too jet lagged to go into that atm) PS. There are many many many more things to be explored / exploited for those interested in OpenVMS security.. But there is only so much you can fit into 50mins.. Cheers, signedness.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:18:54 -0400 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Message-ID: <48A4CB6E.2070903@comcast.net> bugs@signedness.org wrote: [...] > Well if you are talking about our bugs then you may > want to watch these videos: > > http://www.signedness.org/misc/openvms_local_install_exploit.avi > http://www.signedness.org/misc/openvms_local_tcpip_exploit.avi > http://www.signedness.org/misc/openvms_local_telnet_exploit.avi > There is no sound on the videos. I can't reproduce these "exploits" because I don't have access to FILE.EXE. > Can't be bothered to upload the finger video atm, and its easy enough > to reproduce. Just fingering a users whose .plan file contains %n%n%n%n > %n%n%n or something similar should do it. Like this (on an Alpha)? brad@coyote:~$ finger brad@xxx.xxx.xxx [xxx.xxx.xxx] BRAD brad 20A18427 *DCL* FTA1680ssh/x.x.x.x. Plan: mangiD kcirtaP regnaD kciN Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker Anna Livia Plurabelle %n%n%n%n%n%n%n Sorry, I'm not impressed, at least not without more detail than has been provided so far. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:26:35 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Message-ID: <00A7E1D4.8320BEEA@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <488fbb7a-2459-4753-904a-7ecd5193bdc4@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com>, bugs@signedness.org writes: >On Aug 14, 2:42=A0am, "Tim E. Sneddon" wrote: >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> > In article <9781c047-761a-4923-9aab-8c1a32ff7...@x35g2000hsb.googlegrou= >ps.com>, samp...@gmail.com writes: >> >>> I would have thought a CLI overflow to have been tried by at least a = >few >> >>> at DEFCON9 because the system automagically created service-rich user >> >>> accounts with of course DCL which the hackers were then free to abuse= >.. >> >> >>> We were not scrutinizing buffers however and any such overflow may in >> >>> our case have done nothing harmful (by luck or design). I think it wa= >s >> >>> version 7.1-? if it makes a difference. Did the gentleman specify any >> >>> versions? >> >> Default 8.3 install on an Alpha according to the presentation notes. >> >> To reproduce this, apparently one is to enter exactly 511 characters >> >> of input, then press the up arrow three times and wait - a core dump >> >> follows. >> >> > I know you didn't make the claim but you should first test it out befor= >e >> > brandishing bullshit here. >> >> > I've tried to reproduce the claimed results from your posted instructio= >n >> > and it does NOT produce a "core dump". >> >> This isn't entirely bullshit. I reported it, case number AH800710. >> >> I saw the original post regarding the "execution of priviledged code" >> and was tempted to reply, but I didn't bother. However, I am now :-) >> >> The issue never allowed execution of priv. code (certainly not as >> far as I could see). The issue was simply a miss calculation in the >> RECALL ring buffer that resulted in an access violation. This seemed >> to coincide with the extension of the DCL command line buffer. Yes, >> the process does crash. Yes, it was a pain. However, it happened so >> infrequently and never actually did anything serious that I didn't >> report it for the first few months. >> >> The version of VMS is also incorrect. I reported the problem under >> OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 in June, 2004. >> >> Tim. > > >I googled the case number but didn't find anything except this thread, >so I'm not 100% sure what it refers to. But not entirely bullshit and >never exploitable? Well if you are talking about our bugs then you may >want to watch these videos: > >http://www.signedness.org/misc/openvms_local_install_exploit.avi >http://www.signedness.org/misc/openvms_local_tcpip_exploit.avi >http://www.signedness.org/misc/openvms_local_telnet_exploit.avi Videos of several minutes of black and silence. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:26:56 -0700 (PDT) From: bugs@signedness.org Subject: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Message-ID: <6e77d46c-8fd3-4b11-be3b-64f53ae4598b@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Aug 15, 3:12 am, "Tim E. Sneddon" wrote: > b...@signedness.org wrote: > > On Aug 14, 2:42 am, "Tim E. Sneddon" wrote: > >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >>> In article <9781c047-761a-4923-9aab-8c1a32ff7...@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, samp...@gmail.com writes: > >>>>> I would have thought a CLI overflow to have been tried by at least a few > >>>>> at DEFCON9 because the system automagically created service-rich user > >>>>> accounts with of course DCL which the hackers were then free to abuse. > >>>>> We were not scrutinizing buffers however and any such overflow may in > >>>>> our case have done nothing harmful (by luck or design). I think it was > >>>>> version 7.1-? if it makes a difference. Did the gentleman specify any > >>>>> versions? > >>>> Default 8.3 install on an Alpha according to the presentation notes. > >>>> To reproduce this, apparently one is to enter exactly 511 characters > >>>> of input, then press the up arrow three times and wait - a core dump > >>>> follows. > >>> I know you didn't make the claim but you should first test it out before > >>> brandishing bullshit here. > >>> I've tried to reproduce the claimed results from your posted instruction > >>> and it does NOT produce a "core dump". > >> This isn't entirely bullshit. I reported it, case number AH800710. > > >> I saw the original post regarding the "execution of priviledged code" > >> and was tempted to reply, but I didn't bother. However, I am now :-) > > >> The issue never allowed execution of priv. code (certainly not as > >> far as I could see). The issue was simply a miss calculation in the > >> RECALL ring buffer that resulted in an access violation. This seemed > >> to coincide with the extension of the DCL command line buffer. Yes, > >> the process does crash. Yes, it was a pain. However, it happened so > >> infrequently and never actually did anything serious that I didn't > >> report it for the first few months. > > >> The version of VMS is also incorrect. I reported the problem under > >> OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 in June, 2004. > > >> Tim. > > > I googled the case number but didn't find anything except this thread, > > so I'm not 100% sure what it refers to. But not entirely bullshit and > > never exploitable? Well if you are talking about our bugs then you may > > want to watch these videos: > > It refers to the HP case number. I merely offered it as proof that > I logged the job and that it closed with a successful result. > > Does anybody bother actually reading what I posted or are they so > busy with their heads up their arses that they seem to miss the > finer points? > > I don't care about the finger exploit. I don't care about the videos. > There was a claim that this bug in the RECALL code would allow one > to run arbitrary priv. code. I know first hand that it doesn't. Why? > Because I'm the guy who found it. It lets you crash your process, > when you're at DCL! Holy shit, stop the press! It's an exploit! > I don't think so. As Bob Gezelter pointed out. There are plenty of > other ways to kill your process from DCL. It is *not* a security > vulnerability. It certainly was an annoying bug though. > > Tim. LOL The bug is not in DCL, and if you care to watch the videos you will see that an arbitrary program can be run with higher privileges. As an example we wrote FILE.EXE (since we can not get any output to the terminal from 'show proc/priv' when exploiting) which simply writes the privileges of the current process to PRIVS.TXT. We first execute FILE.EXE from the shell to show that the user has the default privileges. FILE.EXE is then executed with higher privileges from the program that we are exploiting (install, tcpip and telnet, but there are others as well). Oh, and you need the vmware codecs installed to watch the videos. Cheers, signedness.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:37:43 -0400 From: bradhamilton Subject: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Message-ID: <48A4DDE7.3020506@comcast.net> bugs@signedness.org wrote: [...] > > LOL > The bug is not in DCL, and if you care to watch the videos you will > see that an arbitrary program can be run with higher privileges. > As an example we wrote FILE.EXE (since we can not get any output to > the terminal from 'show proc/priv' when exploiting) which simply > writes the privileges of the current process to PRIVS.TXT. > We first execute FILE.EXE from the shell to show that the user has the > default privileges. > FILE.EXE is then executed with higher privileges from the program that > we are exploiting (install, tcpip and telnet, but there are others as > well). > > Oh, and you need the vmware codecs installed to watch the videos. > > Cheers, > signedness.org Thanks for the additional information. I was curious as to why you ran FILE.EXE, as opposed to a simple "show proc/priv" before and after your exploit. I can see that you have gained privilege after the "exploit", but the "exploit" itself seems to be another EXE (SHELLCODE?) itself. Why all the "mystery"? Without the source code, we can't "see" what's going on, and reproduce it ourselves; we are left to trusting that you are not playing some kind of bizarre, behind-the-scenes tricks to pretend that you are elevating privileges. Sorry to be so mistrustful, but that's just a common attitude here. I was able to "view" the videos on a linux laptop using "Movie Player". I tried to view the videos on an XP box, but both Media Player and Quicktime show dark screens, as reported by Brian. Media player claims that a codec is corrupt (I assume that this is the vmware codec referred to above). As for the finger "exploit", can you be more specific? As I've shown, seven "%n" in my plan file is not enough to trigger bizarre, unwanted behavior. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:35:31 -0700 (PDT) From: bugs@signedness.org Subject: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS Message-ID: On Aug 15, 3:03=A0am, patrick jankowiak wrote: > Forgive me, but all this "enter exactly 511 characters and press the up > arrow three times" business reminds me of the old Dick Van Dyke episode > schtick that started with a telephone call and ended with "..then swing > the bag over your head and scream like a chicken" > > Vaxman -please e-mail me your shipment receiving address.. I am a couple > years remiss in sending you something. > > Patrick J We are not going to release the exploits for some time.. Seven "%n" should be more than enough to hit something you cant write to and crash the finger client (provided that HP has not patched it, we have not heard from them in weeks even though we asked for updates) System service numbers seems to move around between releases (like windows system calls), since all our payloads assumes 8.3 (alpha) and 7.3 (vax) it would probably just mean that we get another bunch of replies saying "it only crashes the binary and won't get "SYSTEM"". Another thing is that at least the VAX shellcode was written purely for demo purposes and got my username hardcoded into it (uses a system service to enable all privs on my account) If anybody is in or around London I'd be happy to settle whether or not we are bullshitting with a live demo at a dc4420 meeting or similar event.. The alpha exploits uses the sys$creprc system service to execute the file FILE.EXE that happens to show the privs of the process. The reason we took that route instead of spawning a new "shell" with higher privs is that it was easier to test/debug. btw for those of you who doubt us, check this out http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/495207 either we set a new trend making it fashionable to bullshit about OpenVMS bugs or maybe it is possible that VMS is pretty exploitable.. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:45:48 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: DSPP & OpenVMS Message-ID: <00A7E1AD.491C93B4@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article <00A7E17B.48A1842E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >Save for the yearly nuisance renewals of OpenVMS PAKs and the occasional >unreadable email, what benefits do DSPP provide to the OpenVMS community? Off the top of my head: Significant discounts on hardware (which must be dedicated to development, not production, for some period of time). Downloadable binaries. Access to employee pricing on HP consumer products. -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:21:20 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: DSPP & OpenVMS Message-ID: <00A7E1D3.C74CB129@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <00A7E1AD.491C93B4@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes: >In article <00A7E17B.48A1842E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>Save for the yearly nuisance renewals of OpenVMS PAKs and the occasional >>unreadable email, what benefits do DSPP provide to the OpenVMS community? > >Off the top of my head: > >Significant discounts on hardware (which must be dedicated to development, not >production, for some period of time). > >Downloadable binaries. My c.o.v. posting got me the answer I was seeking. ;) Seems I always need to go this route to get a response. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:23:08 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: DSPP & OpenVMS Message-ID: <8660a3a10808142123y6bd344c5ydde2f7ec6225f37@mail.gmail.com> ------=_Part_75538_30152316.1218774188564 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:21 PM, wrote: > In article <00A7E1AD.491C93B4@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) > writes: > >In article <00A7E17B.48A1842E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- > @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > >>Save for the yearly nuisance renewals of OpenVMS PAKs and the occasional > >>unreadable email, what benefits do DSPP provide to the OpenVMS community? > > > >Off the top of my head: > > > >Significant discounts on hardware (which must be dedicated to development, > not > >production, for some period of time). > > > >Downloadable binaries. > > My c.o.v. posting got me the answer I was seeking. ;) > > Seems I always need to go this route to get a response. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional > protection > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. > (NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article > outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this > copyright > notice, disclaimer and quotations. > Perhaps you just don't know the right people at HP to ask. WWWebb ------=_Part_75538_30152316.1218774188564 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 8:21 PM, <VAXman-@sendspamhere.org> wrote:

In article <00A7E1AD.491C93B4@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes:
>In article <00A7E17B.48A1842E@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>>Save for the yearly nuisance renewals of OpenVMS PAKs and the occasional
>>unreadable email, what benefits do DSPP provide to the OpenVMS community?
>
>Off the top of my head:
>
>Significant discounts on hardware (which must be dedicated to development, not
>production, for some period of time).
>
>Downloadable binaries.

My c.o.v. posting got me the answer I was seeking. ;)

Seems I always need to go this route to get a response.

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
notice, disclaimer and quotations.

Perhaps you just don't know the right people at HP to ask.

WWWebb

------=_Part_75538_30152316.1218774188564-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:52:40 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Example: VMS to Web Browser "push" technology Message-ID: Hi Graham, My first reaction to your post(s) is to ask "What has your graffiti got to do with *push* technology in the first place?" or my example, at all, for that matter. The clue is in the title mate! This is all very puzzling. Look, if you need to proclaim you love publicly for http, WASD, Mark, or simply "I kissed ajax, and I liked ii-a-it!", then more power to you; just please stop shitting on my doorstep. Start up your own thread (Burley-labs blog perhaps?), run amok; whatever it is, just not here eh? > I couldn't resist enduring some crud-wading Hey, and I'm compelled to indulge in some pompous-arse management (Beats Oz coverage of the Olympics :-) > demonstrate an alternate approach (AJAX polling), I see your point (I think?) in so much as chalk is an "alternative" to cheese or night is an "alternative" to day or a horse is an "alternative" to a Ferrari? Graham you've helped me immensely over the last 12 months, and I know you have no interest in giving me the shits just for the hell of it, so I can only conclude that you (sadly like so many here) cannot tell the difference between my real-time, event-driven, PUSH example and your resource-hungry, inefficient, lag-prone PULL(polling) example. If that is the case, then let me put it in other peoples words for you rather than mine: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Push http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pull_technology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(programming) What's it all about hey? Whaddaya reakon they're trying to do in milking some sort of PUSH technology out of the architected piece o' shit, sow's-ear that is http? Honestly, what could the UDP Broadcast and Multicast architects have possibly been thinking? Too many drugs at Uni perhaps? OK, if I speak in parables maybe that'll help others out? Someone has just suggested an "alternative" to an asynchronous $QIO with an AST, he sees nothing wrong in polling a mailbox constantly to check if someone has written a message. I mean "What's the big deal?". We -could- introduce a delay so theres' no tight CPU loop; maybe 2 secs? But what if nothing happens for 2 hours or if a stock-price has changed *now*, but you make me wait 2 secs till everyone else has done the deal? Or, to take Graham's Ajax example, you could change the onreadystatechange callback just to set a flag VAR and then poll for it constantly in the mainline untill it is set to "1". Sound like a good idea? If not *why* not? Here's a few more thinks for any frustrated-programmers (nee System Managers who "do a bit of scripting") that appear to constitute the entire COV demographic: - http://cometdaily.com/2008/07/04/html5-websocket/ [Great Idea! Woeful implementation :-(] http://cometdaily.com/2008/08/07/comet-gazing-websocket/ http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#network WebSockets eh! Who'd of thought? When I spoke to Digital about it 12 years ago who could've known what trend-setters we might've been? Then that's why they *still* get paid the big-bucks I guess? How's VMS going anyway? Size of the disillusioned installed-base worth a mention? How many did we lose last year? And for any who may be wondering what the real (Java) Socket interface mechanism was up to, why not have a gander at this: - http://weblogs.java.net/blog/joshy/archive/2008/05/java_doodle_cro.html https://jdk6.dev.java.net/plugin2/ Yep, just ask Ann McQuaid; it's all Java(5), Axis2, Web services, and NetBeans (or is it eclipse?) over there :-( Finger on the pulse as always (just a shame it's the carotid artery or a corpse!) But getting back to Graham's example, maybe he wanted to reply to Jan-Erik as a solution to his "factory dashboard" requirement (and fair-enough too). > and iirc DCL script process re-use is the default WASD setting. Wow! "process re-use" whatever next? Imagine: - Image-Reuse, only having to open channels to files and databases once at image/process startup, local-cache-preservation, the ability for a completely unprivileged process to assume the VMS persona of the requesting client at anytime in order for VMS to enforce secutity checks and auditing. Imagine all this with a true TP Monitor capability (I mean what were those (silly?) ACMS guys thinking all those years ago? Early crystal meth users?) Min Servers, Max Servers, Idle Timeouts, *Application-based* tuning and configuration to cater individually for a broad spectrum of business requirements. (But not nearly as much fun as a quick 'n' dirty bit of Perl or DCL hey?) Anyway, I'll leave you now to get back to your eval(query_string) or was it $'query_string' and mysql (transactions? referential-integrity? more piffle!) But if anyone ever gets bothered enough to discuss the *technology* behind an Apache, tomcat, WASD (and perhaps Graham's example) when it comes to thousands of users and true update-intensive TP configurations then that would make a welcome change. Yes, web-services are shit for many reasons (not least of which is that the crap sits on top of http!) But please look at all the alternatives, before you throw good money after bad. Maybe we can start several *new* threads to discuss the Oyster card replacement with a http smartcard, or mobile phones using http POSTs for SMS messaging - Surely you could knock that up in a lunch-time with a bit of Perl or Python? And it would be remiss of me not to point out, to those long suffering VMS users that are *still* screaming out for a simple way to put a GUI on their existing (and new) 3GL applications or to integrate their rich herritage of code, business-rules and data into their web-facing *nix architecture, that with Tier3 you *don't* need a VMS-based web-server at all! . No Apache, WASD, OSU . No Java (or its garbage-collector) . No WSIT, BridgeWorks, DCE/RPC, ONC/RPC . No ACMS (or its rediculous workspaces/restrictions) . No Tomcat . No XML (Unless you want to) . No JSP, ASP, Perl, PHP, Python, CGI, Ruby, RoR . No ODBC, JDBC, OCI . No cma, pthreads, or any other threads . No NetBeans or Eclipse And the results: - http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/demo_client_flash.html http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/demo_client_web.html Username: TIER3_DEMO Password: QUEUE All code to be found at: - http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/ 'nuff said Cheers Richard Maher "Graham Burley" wrote in message news:48a2c1a5$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > In article , "Richard Maher" writes: > > > Just goes to show what can be achieved when all the > > http/webserver/interpreter/process-management crud is removed. > > I couldn't resist enduring some crud-wading to demonstrate an > alternate approach (AJAX polling), the example can be seen at: > > http://deathrow.vistech.net/~spider/ajaxpoll.html > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:56:08 -0400 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: Example: VMS to Web Browser "push" technology Message-ID: <00be01c8fe69$52f6b420$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP> > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham Burley [mailto:burley@Encompasserve.org] > > In article <0bd501c8fda5$72137c90$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP>, "Peter Weaver" > writes: > > >$ monitor process/end="+00:00:03"/inter=1 /'query_string' > > You should never use (substitute) a query string like this, it's not safe. Right I never thought of that but I do need to add a few IF statements in there to make it safe. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com Winner of the 2007 OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System Management/Performance ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:59:36 -0400 From: John Sauter Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: Wilm Boerhout wrote: > This is on VAX/VMS 7.3, COBOL 5.7-63 > > I need to extend some program's functionality and came up with an idea > to let an AST routine do periodic reporting. I was brutally ACCVIO'd by > the program, and made a small reproducer. I'm sure I don't understand > all about AST programming (it's relatively new to me), but why it would > fail in exactly this manner baffles me. > > The real program will have a network listener instead of a > DISPLAY/ACCEPT loop, but you'll get the general idea. Also, the MIS area > will have really useful data, trust me. > > The reproducer ACCVIO's in the compute statement marked with two > asterisks (**) below. > Two questions: > - can you reproduce the error? > - if yes, can you tell me why it ACCVIOs, and how to avoid it? > > TIA, > Wilm [COBOL program text snipped] I am not familiar with the VAX COBOL run-time library, but I had a similar experience with the VAX BASIC run-time library. I found that doing I/O in an AST routine would cause an ACCVIO. Fortunately, I was developing the VAX BASIC run-time library at the time, so I was able to fix the problems. I speculate that the VAX COBOL run-time library is not AST-reentrant. That said, however, I don't see how your program is getting an access violation on the compute statement. Perhaps the reporting of the access violation is mangled, and the error was actually happening somewhere else, such as in the display statement being executed as AST level, and not reported until the compute statement executed. Can you provide more information about the error message? Does the problem still happen when you run the program under the debugger? If so, can you pinpoint the failing VAX instruction? John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:10:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: <2d63548a-9a10-4207-9e51-0db622b2efc3@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> Wilm, Main problems: 1) Testing for SS$_NORMAL when a simple "IF FAILURE" should be used. 2) SYS$SETAST does NOT return a status, but a flag setting SS$_WASCLR (1) or SS$_WASSET (9) Fix: call "SYS$SETAST" using by value 0 giving SYSTAT. display "set ast returned : ", SYSTAT with conversion. 3) Trusting a line number when compiled with optimizer. Fix: $COBOL/NOOPT [/DEBUG] This will report line 45 as the offending line. 4) Using a pic s9(9) to hold an address, when cobol has a 'usage POINTER' Met vriendelijke groetjes, Hein ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:27:39 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: <48a4791e$0$6006$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 14-8-2008 20:10 Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote... > Wilm, > > Main problems: > > 1) Testing for SS$_NORMAL when a simple "IF FAILURE" should be used. Programming practice carried over from my Fortran days. Not sure whether fixing this would help. > > 2) SYS$SETAST does NOT return a status, but a flag setting SS$_WASCLR > (1) or SS$_WASSET (9) > > Fix: > call "SYS$SETAST" using by value 0 giving SYSTAT. > display "set ast returned : ", SYSTAT with conversion. Ah, I missed that one. > 3) Trusting a line number when compiled with optimizer. > > Fix: > $COBOL/NOOPT [/DEBUG] > This will report line 45 as the offending line. I would never have guessed this one. Since optimizing is carried out entirely by the compiler, I would have thought it could count. > 4) Using a pic s9(9) to hold an address, when cobol has a 'usage > POINTER' This is in all the examples I found in respectable places, including HP docs. > Met vriendelijke groetjes, > > Hein Ook zo! En bedankt... Wilm (It must be a combination of 2 above and trying to DISPLAY in the AST routine) -- Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, NL remove OLD PAINT from return address to reply ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:02:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: <7cacdaf7-7748-4f0b-97e7-202e9af721dc@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Aug 14, 1:27 pm, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > on 14-8-2008 20:10 Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote... > > > Wilm, > > > Main problems: > > > 1) Testing for SS$_NORMAL when a simple "IF FAILURE" should be used. > > Programming practice carried over from my Fortran days. Not sure whether > fixing this would help. > > > > > 2) SYS$SETAST does NOT return a status, but a flag setting SS$_WASCLR > > (1) or SS$_WASSET (9) > > > Fix: > > call "SYS$SETAST" using by value 0 giving SYSTAT. > > display "set ast returned : ", SYSTAT with conversion. > > Ah, I missed that one. > > > 3) Trusting a line number when compiled with optimizer. > > > Fix: > > $COBOL/NOOPT [/DEBUG] > > This will report line 45 as the offending line. > > I would never have guessed this one. Since optimizing is carried out > entirely by the compiler, I would have thought it could count. > > > 4) Using a pic s9(9) to hold an address, when cobol has a 'usage > > POINTER' > > This is in all the examples I found in respectable places, including HP > docs. > > > Met vriendelijke groetjes, > > > Hein > > Ook zo! En bedankt... > Wilm > > (It must be a combination of 2 above and trying to DISPLAY in the AST > routine) > > -- > Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, NL > remove OLD PAINT from return address to reply Wilm, I have not had a chance to digest your sample, but you may find my DECUS presentation on "Introduction to AST Programming" (slides available at http://www.rlgsc.com/cets/2000/435.html ). - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:03:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: On Aug 14, 2:27=A0pm, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > on 14-8-2008 20:10 Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote... > > > Wilm, > > > Main problems: > > > 1) Testing for SS$_NORMAL when a simple "IF FAILURE" should be used. > > Programming practice carried over from my Fortran days. Not sure whether > fixing this would help. OpenVMS Cobol (and pascal , and...) have a nice 'IF SUCCES/FAILURE' test which just looks for the low bit to be set. The WASSET and WASCLR values both have those set (no conicidence). > > 3) Trusting a line number when compiled with optimizer. > > > Fix: > > =A0 =A0 =A0 $COBOL/NOOPT [/DEBUG] > > This will report line 45 as the offending line. > > I would never have guessed this one. Since optimizing is carried out > entirely by the compiler, I would have thought it could count. It can count, but it can not decide... Check it out with COBOL/LIST/MACHINE and look for 00049 with the editor. You'll see it being partly executed in many places. Too many to keep a full inventory for runtime usage. > > 4) Using a pic s9(9) to hold an address, when cobol has a 'usage > > POINTER' > > This is in all the examples I found in respectable places, including HP d= ocs. I realize that. I should have listed is as a recommendation, not a problem. My own example for cobol AST's, published in 'Ask the Wizard' (amongst others) uses the COMP S9(9) hack. That's what we all used to do, http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/wiz_8137.html Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:04:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: On Aug 14, 1:27 pm, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > on 14-8-2008 20:10 Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote... > > > Wilm, > > > Main problems: > > > 1) Testing for SS$_NORMAL when a simple "IF FAILURE" should be used. > > Programming practice carried over from my Fortran days. Not sure whether > fixing this would help. > > > > > 2) SYS$SETAST does NOT return a status, but a flag setting SS$_WASCLR > > (1) or SS$_WASSET (9) > > > Fix: > > call "SYS$SETAST" using by value 0 giving SYSTAT. > > display "set ast returned : ", SYSTAT with conversion. > > Ah, I missed that one. > > > 3) Trusting a line number when compiled with optimizer. > > > Fix: > > $COBOL/NOOPT [/DEBUG] > > This will report line 45 as the offending line. > > I would never have guessed this one. Since optimizing is carried out > entirely by the compiler, I would have thought it could count. > > > 4) Using a pic s9(9) to hold an address, when cobol has a 'usage > > POINTER' > > This is in all the examples I found in respectable places, including HP > docs. > > > Met vriendelijke groetjes, > > > Hein > > Ook zo! En bedankt... > Wilm > > (It must be a combination of 2 above and trying to DISPLAY in the AST > routine) > > -- > Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, NL > remove OLD PAINT from return address to reply Wimn, It is also generally not safe to call RTL routines from both AST/ regular threads, unless one has specific knowledge that the RTL routine does not have any static data areas). - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:19:01 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: <48a48528$0$6000$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 14-8-2008 21:04 Bob Gezelter wrote... [snip] > It is also generally not safe to call RTL routines from both AST/ > regular threads, unless one has specific knowledge that the RTL > routine does not have any static data areas). That is why I avoid it. The $DCLAST system service is used for that purpose. I'm under the impression that this is the recommended way to "run" an AST routine immediately. -- Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, NL remove OLD PAINT from return address to reply ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:20:39 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: <48a4858a$0$6000$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 14-8-2008 21:02 Bob Gezelter wrote... [snip] > I have not had a chance to digest your sample, but you may find my > DECUS presentation on "Introduction to AST Programming" (slides > available at http://www.rlgsc.com/cets/2000/435.html ). Thanks. This is good stuff. -- Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, NL remove OLD PAINT from return address to reply ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:23:46 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: Hi Wilm, > - if yes, can you tell me why it ACCVIOs, and how to avoid it? As Hein pointed out, it's the ss$_wasset/ss$_wasclr i.e. LIB$STOPping with ss$_wasset will look like an accvio. You should check "not = ss$_wasset and ss$_wasclr." also you probably don't want to turn it back on again if it was clear in the first place. Apart from that, feel free to keep checking your status values for known results (especially if you're interested in warning statii such as data truncations), lower-case is really good, and "add" can often beat compute in many areas. Cheers Richard Maher PS. You can use a small MACRO file to achieve compile-time initialization of MIS if you're into that? "Wilm Boerhout" wrote in message news:48a465f3$0$6003$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl... > This is on VAX/VMS 7.3, COBOL 5.7-63 > > I need to extend some program's functionality and came up with an idea > to let an AST routine do periodic reporting. I was brutally ACCVIO'd by > the program, and made a small reproducer. I'm sure I don't understand > all about AST programming (it's relatively new to me), but why it would > fail in exactly this manner baffles me. > > The real program will have a network listener instead of a > DISPLAY/ACCEPT loop, but you'll get the general idea. Also, the MIS area > will have really useful data, trust me. > > The reproducer ACCVIO's in the compute statement marked with two > asterisks (**) below. > Two questions: > - can you reproduce the error? > - if yes, can you tell me why it ACCVIOs, and how to avoid it? > > TIA, > Wilm > *-------------------------------------------- cut here ----------- > identification division. > program-id. TESTIMR initial. > > data division. > working-storage section. > 01 SS$_NORMAL pic S9(9) comp value external SS$_NORMAL. > 01 ASTSERV pic S9(9) comp value external ASTSERV. > 01 SYSTAT pic S9(9) comp. > > 01 TELLER pic 9. > > 01 MIS external. > 02 SOM pic 9(6) occurs 10 times. > > procedure division. > TEST-TIMER section. > 00. > move zeroes to TELLER, SOM(8). > > * fire the AST routine once: > call "SYS$DCLAST" using > by value ASTSERV, > omitted, omitted > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > * schedule the AST routine after defined interval: > call "ASTFIRE". > 01. > display "Getal: " with no advancing > accept TELLER > if TELLER = zero then go to 02. > > * suspend AST delivery while adding: > call "SYS$SETAST" using > by value 0 > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > compute SOM(8) = SOM(8) + TELLER. (**) > > * resume AST delivery: > call "SYS$SETAST" using > by value 1 > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > go to 01. > 02. > exit program. > end program TESTIMR. > / > identification division. > program-id. ASTFIRE. > > data division. > working-storage section. > 01 AMINUTE pic X(13) value "0 00:00:10.00". > 01 BMINUTE pic S9(11) comp. > 01 SYSTAT pic S9(9) comp. > > 01 SS$_NORMAL pic S9(9) comp value external SS$_NORMAL. > 01 ASTSERV pic S9(9) comp value external ASTSERV. > > procedure division. > AST-FIRE section. > 00. > call "SYS$BINTIM" using > by descriptor AMINUTE, > by reference BMINUTE > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > call "SYS$SETIMR" using > omitted, > by reference BMINUTE, > by value ASTSERV, > omitted, omitted > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > end program ASTFIRE. > / > identification division. > program-id. ASTSERV. > > data division. > working-storage section. > > 01 MIS external. > 02 SOM pic 9(6) occurs 10 times. > > procedure division. > AST-SERV section. > 00. > display "Som = ", SOM(8) > move zeroes to SOM(8). > > * reschedule AST > call "ASTFIRE". > > end program ASTSERV. > > -- > Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, NL > remove OLD PAINT from return address to reply ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:48:56 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: <1218761031_27@isp.n> Wilm Boerhout wrote: > This is on VAX/VMS 7.3, COBOL 5.7-63 > > I need to extend some program's functionality and came up with an idea > to let an AST routine do periodic reporting. I was brutally ACCVIO'd by > the program, and made a small reproducer. I'm sure I don't understand > all about AST programming (it's relatively new to me), but why it would > fail in exactly this manner baffles me. > > The real program will have a network listener instead of a > DISPLAY/ACCEPT loop, but you'll get the general idea. Also, the MIS area > will have really useful data, trust me. > > The reproducer ACCVIO's in the compute statement marked with two > asterisks (**) below. > Two questions: > - can you reproduce the error? > - if yes, can you tell me why it ACCVIOs, and how to avoid it? > > TIA, > Wilm > *-------------------------------------------- cut here ----------- > identification division. > program-id. TESTIMR initial. > > data division. > working-storage section. > 01 SS$_NORMAL pic S9(9) comp value external SS$_NORMAL. > 01 ASTSERV pic S9(9) comp value external ASTSERV. > 01 SYSTAT pic S9(9) comp. > > 01 TELLER pic 9. > > 01 MIS external. > 02 SOM pic 9(6) occurs 10 times. > > procedure division. > TEST-TIMER section. > 00. > move zeroes to TELLER, SOM(8). > > * fire the AST routine once: > call "SYS$DCLAST" using > by value ASTSERV, > omitted, omitted > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > * schedule the AST routine after defined interval: > call "ASTFIRE". > 01. > display "Getal: " with no advancing > accept TELLER > if TELLER = zero then go to 02. > > * suspend AST delivery while adding: > call "SYS$SETAST" using > by value 0 > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > compute SOM(8) = SOM(8) + TELLER. (**) > > * resume AST delivery: > call "SYS$SETAST" using > by value 1 > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > go to 01. > 02. > exit program. > end program TESTIMR. > / > identification division. > program-id. ASTFIRE. > > data division. > working-storage section. > 01 AMINUTE pic X(13) value "0 00:00:10.00". > 01 BMINUTE pic S9(11) comp. > 01 SYSTAT pic S9(9) comp. > > 01 SS$_NORMAL pic S9(9) comp value external SS$_NORMAL. > 01 ASTSERV pic S9(9) comp value external ASTSERV. > > procedure division. > AST-FIRE section. > 00. > call "SYS$BINTIM" using > by descriptor AMINUTE, > by reference BMINUTE > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > call "SYS$SETIMR" using > omitted, > by reference BMINUTE, > by value ASTSERV, > omitted, omitted > giving SYSTAT > if SYSTAT not = SS$_NORMAL call "LIB$STOP" > using by value SYSTAT. > > end program ASTFIRE. > / > identification division. > program-id. ASTSERV. > > data division. > working-storage section. > > 01 MIS external. > 02 SOM pic 9(6) occurs 10 times. > > procedure division. > AST-SERV section. > 00. > display "Som = ", SOM(8) > move zeroes to SOM(8). > > * reschedule AST > call "ASTFIRE". > > end program ASTSERV. > Here is a different example, which does nothing 8-) , of using an AST in COBOL. ------------------------------------------ identification division. program-id. x. environment division. data division. working-storage section. 01 ast-proc-addr pointer value external ast_routine. 01 delta-time pic s9(9) comp value -50000000. 01 return-value pic s9(9) comp. * the SYS$SETIMR call returns these condition values: 88 ss$_accvio value external ss$_accvio. 88 ss$_exquota value external ss$_exquota. 88 ss$_illefc value external ss$_illefc. 88 ss$_insfmem value external ss$_insfmem. 88 ss$_normal value external ss$_normal. 88 ss$_unasefc value external ss$_unasefc. procedure division. call-set-timer-service. call "sys$setimr" using omitted by reference delta-time by value ast-proc-addr omitted omitted giving return-value end-call if ss$_normal display "Sleeping for 5 seconds" call "sys$hiber" giving return-value end-call display "Awakened!" else evaluate true when ss$_accvio display "Expiration time not readable" when ss$_exquota display "Process AST or timer quota exceeded" when ss$_illefc display "Illegal event flag number specified" when ss$_insfmem display "Not enough dynamic memory to allocate timer element" when ss$_unasefc display "Process does not have the specified event flag" end-evaluate end-if stop run . end program x. identification division. program-id. ast_routine. environment division. data division. working-storage section. 01 return-value pic s9(9) comp. procedure division. ast-fired. call "sys$wake" using omitted omitted giving return-value end-call exit program . end program ast_routine. --------------------------------- Jeff ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:14:31 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: <48a510bc$0$6000$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 14-8-2008 23:23 Richard Maher wrote... [snip] > PS. You can use a small MACRO file to achieve compile-time initialization of > MIS if you're into that? Thanks for joining Richard. I inherited this COBOL program recently (it's 20 years old now) and am still struggling with the finer details of the language. Apparently, an EXTERNAL data area cannnot be initialized by VALUE clauses. What would your macro look like? /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:19:17 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: Help needed with / confused by AST routine (VAX,COBOL) Message-ID: <48a511da$0$6006$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 15-8-2008 2:48 Jeff Campbell wrote... [snip] > evaluate true > when ss$_accvio > display "Expiration time not readable" Jeff, I learn something new every day. Please explain the "evaluate true" construction. How can comapring "true" with the condition codes do the switching? COBOL never ceases to amaze me. -- Wilm Boerhout Zwolle, NL remove OLD PAINT from return address to reply ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:36:03 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: NFS - OpenVMS to OpenVMS Message-ID: <48A4EB93.8010580B@spam.comcast.net> Ingi wrote: > > Hi all > > I'm working on migrating source code from Alpha to Itanium. The > source code is in CMS on a single node Alpha. The new dev-env. Itanium > will also be a single node. Both the Alpha and Itanium only have TCP/ > IP installed, that is NO DECnet and that is not an option either (at > least for now). [snip] Well, rather than mess with NFS, what I recommend - if you have some extra disk space - is to use the ZIP utility to create an archive of the entire source tree: $ ZIP/VMS/KEEP/NODIR/LEVEL=8 SOURCE.ZIP [...]*.*;* ..., FTP the .ZIP file over to the target machine, then UNZIP it on the target: $ UNZIP/VERS SOURCE.ZIP The UN*X equivalent would be a GZIPped tarball. Dunno if that can help you, but it may be something to consider. D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:47:28 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: NFS - OpenVMS to OpenVMS Message-ID: <08081421472880_20200492@antinode.info> From: David J Dachtera > $ ZIP/VMS/KEEP/NODIR/LEVEL=8 SOURCE.ZIP [...]*.*;* -V -w -D -8 I get the first two. Why only "8" instead of "9"? Why /NODIRNAMES (-D)? Since version 6.0d, UnZip on VMS will try (with some success, I believe[*]) to restore directory attributes, but it won't have much to work with if the directories are not included in the archive. > $ UNZIP/VERS SOURCE.ZIP -V Related to above, I'd add /RESTORE (-X) (or /RESTORE = OWNER_PROT, depending on the version). [*] One recently reported bug afflicts a case where only directories (no plain files) are restored, but version 6.0e (and up) should be completely bug-free. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 The UN*X equivalent would be a GZIPped tarball. Dunno if that can help you, but it may be something to consider. D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:03:41 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: OT: Central Repository - File Distribution Question (AIX) Message-ID: <48A4F20D.6E51E5D1@spam.comcast.net> Apologies for the OT post. I know some of my fellow VMSers also deal with AIX. What are other AIX sites using to keep scripts, cron jobs, printer definitions, etc. in-sync across multiple LPARs? We have 10 LPARs right now, not counting a NIM server which has yet to be built. When I've asked in other fora, about the only response I got involved RSYNC. We don't want to deal with NFS on that scale, so I'm looking for something uses RSH, SSH, RCP, SCP or ??? instead (preferably some SSL implementaion). The Central Repository could be on Windows or UN*X - doesn't matter to us. Anyone have any ideas? D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:17:59 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: OT: Central Repository - File Distribution Question (AIX) Message-ID: <08081423175987_20200492@antinode.info> From: David J Dachtera > What are other AIX sites using to keep scripts, cron jobs, printer > definitions, etc. in-sync across multiple LPARs? We have 10 LPARs right > now, not counting a NIM server which has yet to be built. Files? Rsync seems to be popular on UNIX (-like) systems. > When I've asked in other fora, about the only response I got involved > RSYNC. We don't want to deal with NFS on that scale, so I'm looking for > something uses RSH, SSH, RCP, SCP or ??? instead (preferably some SSL > implementaion). I know nothing, but what does rsync have to do with NFS? http://www.samba.org/ftp/rsync/rsync.html [...] There are two different ways for rsync to contact a remote system: using a remote-shell program as the transport (such as ssh or rsh) or contacting an rsync daemon directly via TCP. The remote-shell transport is used whenever the source or destination path contains a single colon (:) separator after a host specification. Contacting an rsync daemon directly happens when the source or destination path contains a double colon (::) separator after a host specification, OR when an rsync:// URL is specified (see also the "USING RSYNC-DAEMON FEATURES VIA A REMOTE-SHELL CONNECTION" section for an exception to this latter rule). [...] I search in vain for any reference to NFS. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:30:27 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: problem to backup and delete files Message-ID: <48A4EA43.77027BC8@spam.comcast.net> chewep@gmail.com wrote: > > Dear Sir, > > I just got a refurbished Tape drive to replace a broken one. When I > was doing backup for OpenVMS. The system prompted me something like > MKA400 not ready or not mounted. MKA400 is the Tape drive. > > Secondly, When I wanted to delete archived files. The system prompted > me some errors, none of the files were deleted on the system. The > error messages are as below. > > %DELETE-W-FILNOTDELETE , error deleting USER:[.....] > -RMS-E-MKD, ACP could not mark file for deletion .... > -SYSYEM-F-DIRNOTEMPTY, directory file is not empty .... > > I would very much appreciated if someone can instruct me to solve the > above mentioned problems. Thank You. As others have mentioned, you need to empty the directories first before you can delete them. This command will delete all the files in the tree without complaining about non-empty directories: $ DELETE [...]*.*;*/EXCLUDE=*.DIR Then, you can try deleting the directories. Since it always starts from the top of the tree, you really can't avoid the DIRNOTEMPTY errors without doing some scripting. I can post my DELTREE.COM file, if you want it, or Google this group for DELTREE to find multiple options. David J Dachtera (formerly dba) DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 2008 12:58:33 -0500 From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: Re: VMS Hobbyist licenses, was: Re: OpenVMS in the media Message-ID: In article , johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: > > *Assuming* problems such as availability of your time and availability > of compatible devices were sorted, then > you could (if you were feeling so inclined) look at a Tadpole > Alphabook, or its close but differently-packaged relative, an Alpha > Multia. Also assuming that you don't need much in the way of compute > power. But that only addresses the hardware, the real problem sounds > like time available for doing the software, which isn't so easy to > fix, and when the underlying software is mostly already out there on > x86, what's the home brewer with limited resources supposed to do? Exactly. :-) The tools are just that: tools. They are not the project, but just a means to help achieve that project, so if they are already available on a platform that I am comfortable with, then there isn't a lot of motivation to spend a lot of time trying to get them to work on another platform, especially when there's no guarantee that you would be able to achieve the port in a reasonable amount of time. Sadly, the reality is that there's a whole ecosystem of design tools available for Linux, and the thing that really interests me are the projects I am using those tools on, and not the tools themselves. Anyway, to bring this back on topic: I had a quick look at the Encompass US website at http://www.encompassus.org/ and it appears that associate memberships don't appear to exist for new members any more, although they are carried over for existing associate members like myself. However, when you go to the joining page, you are given a Guest option. Does anyone know if that still allows someone like John to obtain a free hobbyist license ? Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:27:22 -0500 From: "***** charles" Subject: Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000? Message-ID: "David" wrote in message news:wgGok.10470$vX2.9219@bignews6.bellsouth.net... >I have some sitting in boxes - 128MB if you want it it's yours if you pay >shipping I think I missunderstood you. You said 128M total (4x32) and I thought you ment 8x128M=1G. please clarify, if they are the 32Meggers I only can handle 4 more. thanks, charles..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:54:42 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: What to do now with a DEC Server 3000? Message-ID: <1218757777_24@isp.n> ***** charles wrote: > > >> The only difference is the damage done to the white box firmware to >> prevent them booting VMS or Tru64. >> A very simple procedure remedies this defect :-) >> One note however: DEC/HP/Compaq will never service nor support a white >> box Alpha that runs VMS or Tru64. > > I would be inclined to do this if I could get it to insall/run OpenVMS. > When I was in school "a long time ago" the computer science dept. > had a vax cluster and I have used VMS before. Might be interesting. > If you have the customization procedure to turn a white box into a > blue box please point. > > thanks, > charles..... > > To run VMS on a white box DS330x do the following: 1) Change the machine to use the SRM console. 2) At the SRM >>> prompt, type the following: >>> set os_type vms >>> cat nvram (to see what, if anything, is in it) >>> edit nvram 10 set srm_boot on 20 set boot_reset on 30 e >>> init 4) Install VMS and have fun! Change the line numbers, 10 and 20 above, if your nvram file happens to have other commands in it already. The edit command above runs a simple line numbered editor. Type a ? in it to see a list of it's commands: >>> edit nvram ? Jeff ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.444 ************************