INFO-VAX Sun, 14 Sep 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 504 Contents: Re: HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Re: HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Re: HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Re: Installing VMS onto USB disk on an Itanium Re: Installing VMS onto USB disk on an Itanium Re: Installing VMS onto USB disk on an Itanium Re: Installing VMS onto USB disk on an Itanium License generator... Re: License generator... Re: License generator... Re: License generator... Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:36:47 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Message-ID: <48cc24ba$0$9673$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > For a business standpoint, VMS must be one of the > worst choises for the desktop today. I disagree. If HP put its weight behind VMS, you'd see VMS quickly gain the various Linux graphic/X software and it would make it easy to get new modern software onto VMS. (there had been some attempt at this when they ported Mozilla to VMS with all the underlying middleware that is required for this bloated piece of software, but unfortunatly, it did not become a on-going project). Consider the clustering capabilities and the ability to use CPU power of people's PCs when they are at lunch or in a meeting etc etc. Consider the clustering capabilities in terms of disk storage, software upgrades, security etc etc. Consider VMS's superior intrusion detection and logging. It wouldn't become defactor standard overnight. But I think it would become an interesting solution for corporate sites where not only would they get a robust OS, but also robust support from HP. And if maintenance costs were really much lower with VMS, then that would be an advantage too. (fewer people needed to maintain a fleet of desktops and servers). Where there is a will, there is a way. HP's CTO (is it still that Robison guy?) probably doesn't know VMS still exists and doesn't know VMS' full capabilities. The question is whether it would be cheaper to add VMS features to Linux, or update VMS to support modern applications. Now, consider if Apple were to license its OS so that Dell and HP could build MACs. This would make for a a very intersting marketplace. And it would put pressure on Microsoft to convert Windows to EFI based systems (OS-X is based on EFI). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:08:18 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Message-ID: <6a6dnSHIpf3YsVHVnZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@comcast.com> JF Mezei wrote: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > >> For a business standpoint, VMS must be one of the >> worst choises for the desktop today. > > I disagree. > > If HP put its weight behind VMS, you'd see VMS quickly gain the various > Linux graphic/X software and it would make it easy to get new modern > software onto VMS. (there had been some attempt at this when they ported > Mozilla to VMS with all the underlying middleware that is required for > this bloated piece of software, but unfortunatly, it did not become a > on-going project). > > Consider the clustering capabilities and the ability to use CPU power of > people's PCs when they are at lunch or in a meeting etc etc. Consider > the clustering capabilities in terms of disk storage, software upgrades, > security etc etc. > > Consider VMS's superior intrusion detection and logging. > > It wouldn't become defactor standard overnight. But I think it would > become an interesting solution for corporate sites where not only would > they get a robust OS, but also robust support from HP. And if > maintenance costs were really much lower with VMS, then that would be an > advantage too. (fewer people needed to maintain a fleet of desktops and > servers). > > Where there is a will, there is a way. > > HP's CTO (is it still that Robison guy?) probably doesn't know VMS still > exists and doesn't know VMS' full capabilities. The question is whether > it would be cheaper to add VMS features to Linux, or update VMS to > support modern applications. > It has been obvious for years that DEC/Compaq/HP did not, do not, and will not care about VMS! The handwriting has been on the wall for at least the last thirteen years and I think a case could be made for twenty-five years! The only remedy that I can see is for someone to buy the rights to VMS and try to market it. I suspect that anyone who did so would lose his shirt! If HP gave you VMS for free, you would have to employ the developers, the technical writers, and the hardware and software support people. That means a fairly large payroll. You would have to provide software support for the VAX, Alpha, and Itanic platforms. HP just MIGHT give you the rights to VMS if you would take over the support. Remember, there are commitments to DOD and perhaps other government agencies that would come with the package and would have to be honored. Some of those commitments run through the year 2020 or perhaps even longer. -- draco vulgaris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:28:05 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: HP to market a new OS for their PCs? Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert schrieb: > HP just MIGHT give you the rights to VMS if you would take over the > support. Remember, there are commitments to DOD and perhaps other > government agencies that would come with the package and would have to > be honored. Some of those commitments run through the year 2020 or > perhaps even longer. I wonder how many of those DOD committments literally require VMS. E.g. that JSTARS (sp ?) contract involved a couple of alphas with a particular software functionality, maybe not necessarily involving VMS. And even if so, HP might fulfill the contract by devoting a handful of support engineers to that project and dump VMS as far as the rest of the world is concerned. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:21:13 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Installing VMS onto USB disk on an Itanium Message-ID: In article , "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" writes: > At the simplest level you need a FLASH drive large enough to hold you > system disk. Shouldn't be a problem these days. A few years ago, I noted that my mobile phone had more memory than some of my VAXes. A few months ago, I bought a digital camera---2- or 4-GB memory cards are common. > If you want to make a bootable installation kit you will need at least > 3 GB. For a useable vms 4 or 5 GB is more the size you will need. That much? OK, maybe Itanium takes more space. On ALPHA, I've found a 4-GB system disk to be enough, even if a lot of stuff is installed. On VAX, I use 2-GB disks, but they are only about half full, even though a lot of stuff is installed. I suppose a minimal VAX installation would be about 500 MB. On much earlier versions of VMS, maybe 250, and really VMSTAILORed down, 125 or so. (I think there was a variant of the RZ-23 disk which was a bit larger specifically so that it would hold a very minimal VMS installation.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:45:16 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Installing VMS onto USB disk on an Itanium Message-ID: <48cc26b7$0$9653$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > I suppose a minimal VAX installation would be about 500 MB. I managed to install VMS on a 250 meg drive. I didn't have X, I had the XUI installed. Can't recall the version, probably 7.2. This was on a VS 3100-30. The installation itself was quite tricky because the procedure wouldn't normally allow it. Had to load the B saveset, then delete many files to pair it down, edit the installation kit's equivalet to KITINSTAL (the B saveset creates a system where the stsratup procedure points to the installation procedure so it doesn't use kitinstal) to bypass the disk size checks. Once all installed, I deleted unused stuff, made sure all library files still on disk were compressed, and then restored the B saveset again to bring back the files I had originally deleted. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:16:04 +0200 From: "H Vlems" Subject: Re: Installing VMS onto USB disk on an Itanium Message-ID: <48cc3ba4$0$2294$bf4948fe@news.tele2.nl> "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" schreef in bericht news:gah7bp$h44$2@online.de... > In article , > "forrret.kenney@hp.com_nospam" writes: > >> At the simplest level you need a FLASH drive large enough to hold you >> system disk. > > Shouldn't be a problem these days. A few years ago, I noted that my > mobile phone had more memory than some of my VAXes. A few months ago, I > bought a digital camera---2- or 4-GB memory cards are common. > >> If you want to make a bootable installation kit you will need at >> least >> 3 GB. For a useable vms 4 or 5 GB is more the size you will need. > > That much? OK, maybe Itanium takes more space. On ALPHA, I've found a > 4-GB system disk to be enough, even if a lot of stuff is installed. On > VAX, I use 2-GB disks, but they are only about half full, even though a > lot of stuff is installed. > > I suppose a minimal VAX installation would be about 500 MB. On much > earlier versions of VMS, maybe 250, and really VMSTAILORed down, 125 or > so. (I think there was a variant of the RZ-23 disk which was a bit > larger specifically so that it would hold a very minimal VMS > installation.) > VMS V4.7 with DECwindows fitted on an RD54, alongside DECnet and a couple of compilers. Before that, an RA80 was a supported boot disk, at 121 MB. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:29:09 GMT From: Roger Ivie Subject: Re: Installing VMS onto USB disk on an Itanium Message-ID: On 2008-09-13, JF Mezei wrote: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > >> I suppose a minimal VAX installation would be about 500 MB. > > I managed to install VMS on a 250 meg drive. I once tailored 5.mumble down to fit on an RD32 drive (40MB). This let me build a MicroVAX 2000 with an RD32 and TZ30 in the main system box for travel. Took a bit of nibbling on the hardware because the TZ30 has a flex circuit that goes around outside its 5.25" drive footprint and I had to make room for it. I had MACRO and FORTRAN on it, but no DECwindows. -- roger ivie rivie@rigenet.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:47:11 +0200 From: "Zibri" Subject: License generator... Message-ID: <48cc42e8$0$40307$4fafbaef@reader5.news.tin.it> I just use SIMH with VMS 5.5 for "amarcord" puposes.. Obviously I have hobbyist licenses... But I use vms very rarely and everytime i forget to renew licenses.. I wonder if there is any licence generator or a simple patch... not for evil.. There are keygens for everything.. I wonder why no vms keygens :( ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:13:51 +0100 From: Mark McIntyre Subject: Re: License generator... Message-ID: Zibri wrote: > I just use SIMH with VMS 5.5 for "amarcord" puposes.. > Obviously I have hobbyist licenses... > But I use vms very rarely and everytime i forget to renew licenses.. > > I wonder if there is any licence generator or a simple patch... not for > evil.. > There are keygens for everything.. I wonder why no vms keygens :( Hobbyist licenses cost 12.5p per day, and include a huge number of products. Hobbyist use of VMS is also small-scale and has a loyal user-base. Cracks typically exist for products which are expensive yet widely used by people with no loyalty to the maker. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:19:16 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: License generator... Message-ID: Zibri schrieb: > I just use SIMH with VMS 5.5 for "amarcord" puposes.. > Obviously I have hobbyist licenses... > But I use vms very rarely and everytime i forget to renew licenses.. > > I wonder if there is any licence generator or a simple patch... not for > evil.. > There are keygens for everything.. I wonder why no vms keygens :( They call it PAKGEN. But as long as there are cheap hobbyist licenses, there is no reason to cheat. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:24:31 -0500 From: BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: License generator... Message-ID: In article <48cc42e8$0$40307$4fafbaef@reader5.news.tin.it>, Zibri wrote: >I just use SIMH with VMS 5.5 for "amarcord" puposes.. >Obviously I have hobbyist licenses... >But I use vms very rarely and everytime i forget to renew licenses.. > >I wonder if there is any licence generator or a simple patch... not for >evil.. >There are keygens for everything.. I wonder why no vms keygens :( If you have hobbyist licenses, it's easy to renew. The registration database at openvmshobbyist.org should have retained your information. Look at your "current" hobbyist license like so: $lic list *hobby* Issuer: OPENVMS_HOBBYIST Authorization: DECUS-USA-XXXXXX-1222913 Product Name: OPENVMS-HOBBYIST Producer: DEC Units: 0 Version: 0.0 Release Date: (none) PAK Termination Date: 19-JUN-2009 Availability: 0 Activity: 000000100 Options: Hardware ID: Revision Level: 1 Status: Active Command: REGISTER Modified by user: SYSTEM Modified on: 7-JUN-2008 16:42:39.88 Your "DECUS" number is represented by the six-digit field that I have obscured with "XXXXXX". You should be able to renew licenses with that number, and the other information needed at this page: Good luck, and if you are able to renew your licenses, set yourself a reminder with some kind of calendaring software to renew your licenses each year. I use a batch job running on VMS to send me an email message at several different email addresses a week or so before I need to renew. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:04:33 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <8660a3a10809131104o530a40f5x1da7ce0e1c74a70@mail.gmail.com> ------=_Part_14734_4652112.1221329074524 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > >> The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00 >> Central European Time (GMT + 2). >> >> It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC >> (lasting an eternity for the people in it, but mere millionth of a >> second for us) and it is possible that it will also create a black hole >> that will suck up the earth (like the vaccuum cleaner that sucks the >> pink panther and then sucks itself out of existance) >> >> It is unclear what effect the LHC experiment may have on the connection >> between my universe and the one where most of comp.os.vms lives in. >> >> BBC said that they won't have it at full power today and it will take a >> year before they risk running at at full power. >> >> >> www.cern.ch is the official website. As in any modern event, they are to >> have a live webcast. It is not clear what's we'll see in it. It is not >> clear if we will actually hear a "big bang". >> >> Good luck to all those who worked on that project, and lets hope that >> they doN't rely on Windows to run it. And remember that, as in any >> science fiction movie, all the lights in the world will dim when they >> turn the power on to the collider :-) :-) :-) :-) >> > > Well, the world has clearly survived. Unless, of course, I'm hallucinating > all this! > Your post looks kind of skinny. Are you sure we're not being drawn into a black hole? :-) WWWebb ------=_Part_14734_4652112.1221329074524 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline


On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
JF Mezei wrote:
The Large Hadron Collider will first be activated this morning at 09:00
Central European Time (GMT + 2).

It is expected that a new universe will be created inside the LHC
(lasting an eternity for the people in it, but mere millionth of a
second for us) and it is possible that it will also create a black hole
that will suck up the earth (like the vaccuum cleaner that sucks  the
pink panther and then sucks itself out of existance)

It is unclear what effect the LHC experiment may have on the connection
between my universe and the one where most of comp.os.vms lives in.

BBC said that they won't have it at full power today and it will take a
year before they risk running at at full power.


www.cern.ch is the official website. As in any modern event, they are to
have a live webcast. It is not clear what's we'll see in it. It is not
clear if we will actually hear a "big bang".

Good luck to all those who worked on that project, and lets hope that
they doN't rely on Windows to run it. And remember that, as in any
science fiction movie, all the lights in the world will dim when they
turn the power on to the collider :-) :-) :-) :-)

Well, the world has clearly survived.  Unless, of course, I'm hallucinating all this!
 
 
Your post looks kind of skinny.  Are you sure we're not being drawn into a black hole?
 
:-)
WWWebb
------=_Part_14734_4652112.1221329074524-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:27:42 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <031775f9$0$2159$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> AEF wrote: > As for running the accelerator itself and its detectors and what not > -- I really don't know. I know that people in the physics group I was > in at graduate school used to use VAX/VMS and recently (if not still) > use Linux to analyze their data. Places where I did experiments used Particle accelerators is not something you buy at Walmart. How much of the hardware they have can be "off the shelf" ? Would they require special custom built PCI cards to stuff into 8086s running whatever to control (for instance) the magnets all around the vacuum tube where particles travel ? Or would they be able to use fairly standard lab equipment to have some computer very precisely control the magnets ? (and whatever else). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:43:57 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: > >> As for running the accelerator itself and its detectors and what not >> -- I really don't know. I know that people in the physics group I was >> in at graduate school used to use VAX/VMS and recently (if not still) >> use Linux to analyze their data. Places where I did experiments used > > Particle accelerators is not something you buy at Walmart. I think Walmart might sell equipment that could be classified as a particle accelerator. (But the particles involved are not subatomic!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:36:36 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert schrieb: > I think Walmart might sell equipment that could be classified as a > particle accelerator. (But the particles involved are not subatomic!) Well, a CRT based TV set of yore already qualifies as a particle sccelerator. Although the particles are just electrons, and the energy range is keV, not GeV or above. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:51:26 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: AEF schrieb: > > As for running the accelerator itself and its detectors and what not > -- I really don't know. I know that people in the physics group I was > in at graduate school used to use VAX/VMS and recently (if not still) > use Linux to analyze their data. Places where I did experiments used > VAX/VMS to analyze data. What did they use to run the accelerators? > Some places, like the lab at Ohio U., used their own contraptions. In > fact, many of them may be like that. I think the actual equipment in > use is more important. It's been a long time since I was involved with > such stuff. > > So I wouldn't read too much into this. Well, I happen to work in a lab similar to Cern, though somewhat smaller. IT evolution in sites like that is not that much different from the rest of the world. VMS and mainframes were ubiquitous at the end of the 1980s, but that changed rapidly in the course of the 1990s in favour of Unix and later Linux. In such organisations, the various divisions may have different preferences as far as their IT is concerned, so the science divisions might run some *X, while the PR guys run M$. Accelerator controls usually have several IT levels, where the lowest level runs some realtime OS (e.g. VME-based), whilst monitoring / visualization may well run on M$ (or even VMS in days gone by). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:00:54 -0500 From: BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: In article <48c79086$0$12394$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote: BTW, sorry to hear about your accident - no permanent damage, I trust? Did the eggs survive? I hear you have to break a lot of them to make an omelet. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:51:41 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: The end of the world in roughly 3 hours Message-ID: <48cc6e89$0$9638$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Brad Hamilton wrote: > In article <48c79086$0$12394$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote: > BTW, sorry to hear about your accident - no permanent damage, I trust? Rear wheel's rim is a goner. Haven't checked yet, but I think no spokes broke. The car's bumper hit my rear wheel and seems to have "locked in" and just pushed the wheel on the wet road. At one point, I started to go sideways and my backpack landed on the guy's hood and I guess I then just slid down to the ground. I was *completely* unhurt. (perhaps a bit of a state of shock). The backpack probably took the brunt of any impact. > Did the eggs survive? Yes they did ! All of them intact ! But the tiramisu cake (frozen) was squashed, so I have a pretty good idea where on the backpack the impact occured. The juice carton survived, but showed some signs of "stress" (for lack of better word). ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.504 ************************