INFO-VAX Fri, 24 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 574 Contents: RE: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Re: OpenVMS Book Wins award Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on Re: What does this mean? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:18:02 +0200 From: "OpenVMS @ Martinnovations" Subject: RE: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: <000901c93554$da530a50$8ef91ef0$@nl> On 22 october 2008 20:36 H Vlems wrote: [SNIP] > JF, I still have my original DECUS Holland membership card. Would that > still work too you think? > Hans Mine still does. Regards Martin Hoogenboom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:49:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Nolan Hamilton Subject: Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: <7cb39870-36c3-484a-8dc6-68496777c1c9@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> Yes, 50$ is too much for someone who is less than 18 yrs old and does not have a job. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:13:29 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: <00A818CB.E59E20D1@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <7cb39870-36c3-484a-8dc6-68496777c1c9@y79g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, Nolan Hamilton writes: >Yes, 50$ is too much for someone who is less than 18 yrs old and does Yes, 50$ is too much for someone who is more than 18 yrs old and does not have a job. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:13:30 -0700 (PDT) From: FrankS Subject: Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: <32895960-102c-4022-a279-5a074725b13d@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 23, 6:49=A0pm, Nolan Hamilton wrote: > Yes, 50$ is too much for someone who is less than 18 yrs old and does > not have a job. I don't have the info, but wasn't there a way to get free access to some OpenVMS systems for development, testing, and/or hacking purposes, someplace? Like maybe HP? Deathrow? Maybe someone else can fill in the details. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:46:05 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: <00A818D8.D5146FAE@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <32895960-102c-4022-a279-5a074725b13d@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, FrankS writes: >On Oct 23, 6:49=A0pm, Nolan Hamilton >wrote: >> Yes, 50$ is too much for someone who is less than 18 yrs old and does >> not have a job. > >I don't have the info, but wasn't there a way to get free access to >some OpenVMS systems for development, testing, and/or hacking >purposes, someplace? Like maybe HP? Deathrow? > >Maybe someone else can fill in the details. Eisner has a large accoutrement of language compilers. Get an account there. If not there, I think Deathrow is a good bet. The program announcement boxes that HP put up are no longer available, at least, not with IPs that I have on record. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:54:29 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: <08102319542918_202004F1@antinode.info> From: FrankS > I don't have the info, but wasn't there a way to get free access to > some OpenVMS systems for development, testing, and/or hacking > purposes, someplace? Like maybe HP? Deathrow? If you hurry, perhaps: http://www.testdrive.hp.com/current.shtml Why you'd need to hurry: http://www.testdrive.hp.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:42:42 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: Nolan Hamilton wrote: > Yes, 50$ is too much for someone who is less than 18 yrs old and does > not have a job. Get a job! You are talking about expensive toys. Computers, Operating Systems, Compilers, . . . . Pretty soon you'll be wanting an Oracle database. This stuff all costs money, even for hobbyist use. For commercial use, we are talking about thousands or tens of thousands of dollars for software licenses! I don't know what a Basic compiler/interpreter for Windows would cost but that's not cheap either. My guess would be $300 - $500. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:38:18 -0700 (PDT) From: PR Subject: Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: <673330bb-9d64-4b11-9626-4e540684b907@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Oct 23, 8:42=A0pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Nolan Hamilton wrote: > > Yes, 50$ is too much for someone who is less than 18 yrs old and does > > not have a job. > > Get a job! =A0You are talking about expensive toys. =A0Computers, Operati= ng > Systems, Compilers, . . . . =A0 Pretty soon you'll be wanting an Oracle > database. =A0This stuff all costs money, even for hobbyist use. =A0For > commercial use, we are talking about thousands or tens of thousands of > dollars for software licenses! > > I don't know what a Basic compiler/interpreter for Windows would cost > but that's not cheap either. =A0My guess would be $300 - $500. While I absolutely agree with the get-a-job sentiment, I must point out that depending how much under 18 you are, it may not be possible. And one should talk to Mom and Dad. One should also call Encompass and be very polite and explain the situation. Also, Basic on Windows is - free. Just a download from MS. Oracle on Windows is, yes, free. Intel Fortran on Linux is - free. And GCC on any platform is - free. There is a enormous amount of free software out there for other platforms. VMS is basically free too- just a wee bit of cost from Encompass. About what the average teenager spends on a date these days. -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:50:10 -0600 From: David Miller Subject: Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: <490137E2.20808@att.net> I have a CSLG pack from 2002 with all sort of "retired" licenses; CORAL, BLISS, DIBOL, LISP for instance. What is the legal status of those? David. FrankS wrote: > On Oct 23, 6:49 pm, Nolan Hamilton > wrote: >> Yes, 50$ is too much for someone who is less than 18 yrs old and does >> not have a job. > > I don't have the info, but wasn't there a way to get free access to > some OpenVMS systems for development, testing, and/or hacking > purposes, someplace? Like maybe HP? Deathrow? > > Maybe someone else can fill in the details. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:06:40 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Can I get a basic compiler without a license? Message-ID: David Miller wrote: > I have a CSLG pack from 2002 with all sort of "retired" licenses; CORAL, > BLISS, DIBOL, LISP for instance. What is the legal status of those? > > David. It depends on whether or not YOU purchased the licenses from DEC/Compaq/HP. If YOU purchased the licenses, they are yours to use subject to the terms of the license. If, for example, you retrieved the license PAKs from a dumpster somewhere, they are legally "waste paper" and do not entitle you to use the software. As a practical matter, they will unlock the software and allow you to use it but it's not legal. You don't even need license PAKs; it's extremely easy to defeat the licensing; it was meant to "keep honest people honest" but, again, it's not legal. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:47:06 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Message-ID: <3f757357-d4b1-494e-a28d-cd6cb354d834@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com> On Oct 22, 2:03=A0pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <829f6820-1ba5-4787-86d9-36a149df4...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups= .com>, tadamsmar writes: > > > > > > >On Oct 22, 10:42=3DA0am, tadamsmar wrote: > >> On Oct 22, 9:57=3DA0am, VAXman- =3D...@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > >> > In article >ps.com>, tadamsmar writes: > > >> > >On Oct 22, 8:28=3D3DA0am, tadamsmar wrote: > >> > >> On Oct 21, 4:58=3D3DA0pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org= (Bob > > >> > >> Koehler) wrote: > >> > >> > In article <6e8b50bf-00b8-4085-aaf6-0c1d382b3...@u65g2000hsc.go= ogl=3D > >egrou=3D3D > >> > >ps.com>, tadamsmar writes: > > >> > >> > > This solution is useful but not 100% reliable. =3D3DA0Only on= e AST=3D > > is > >> > >> > > established and it has to run to re-establish another. =3D3DA= 0If y=3D > >ou jam =3D3D > >> > >the > >> > >> > > F6 key down then I find that the F6 key eventually wins the r= ace=3D > > with > >> > >> > > the re-establishment of the AST and causes an interrupt. > > >> > >> > =3D3DA0 =3D3DA0Can't the AST re-establish itself before exiting= ? > > >> > >> Yep, and mine does. > > >> > >> But the program would need to re-establish the AST before any oth= er > >> > >> code was executed, like the code that delivers the next F6 key > >> > >> interrupt. > > >> > >> My theory is that next F6 key interrupt gets processed be for the= AS=3D > >T > >> > >> is re-established. =3D3DA0 I guess I am assuming that an AST can = be > >> > >> interrupted by the next F6 Key interrupt. =3D3DA0Is that impossib= le? > > >> > >> Perhaps the AST can be run at some kind of higher level to ensure= it > >> > >> is not interrupted. =3D3DA0I have not had to deal with this kind = of st=3D > >uff in > >> > >> a long time, there are cobwebs on what little I know about it. > > >> > >Higher mode, not higher level. =3DA0Maybe I need to run the AST at = a > >> > >higher mode than the default mode? > > >> > Simple... > > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 .PSECT =3DA0DATA,WRT,NOEXE,5 > >> > CTRL_C_AST: > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 .LONG =3DA0 3 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 = =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0=3D > > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 ; 3 arguments > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 .ADDRESS your_ctrl_c_ast_routine =3DA0 =3DA0= =3DA0 =3DA0; DCLAS=3D > >T$_ASTADR > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 .LONG =3DA0 0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 = =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0=3D > > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 ; DCLAST$_ASTPRM > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 .LONG =3DA0 0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 = =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0=3D > > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 ; DCLAST$_ACMODE > > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 .PSECT =3DA0CODE,NOWRT,EXE,5 > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 .ENTRY =3DA0some_name,0 > > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 $CMEXEC_S =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 ROUTIN=3D3DSYS$D= CLAST,- > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 = =3DA0 ARGLST=3D3DCTRL_C_AST > > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 RET > >> > =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 .END =3DA0 =3DA0 > > >> > This will queue the AST for execution in EXECUTIVE mode. =3DA0You wi= ll > >> > need CMEXEC privilege to test this out. =3DA0If this works, you'll n= eed > >> > to implement a user written system service or install your program > >> > with the CMEXEC privilege to allow this to function for the average > >> > non-privileged user. > > >> > -- > >> > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0VA= Xman(at)T=3D > >MESIS(dot)COM > > >> > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional = pro=3D > >tection > >> > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may = be.=3D > > (NJSC) > > >> > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. =3DA0Publication of _this_ usenet a= rticl=3D > >e outside > >> > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this= co=3D > >pyright > >> > notice, disclaimer and quotations.- Hide quoted text - > > >> > - Show quoted text - > > >> So, in what context do I execute this function? =3DA0Looks like it jus= t > >> queues the AST. =3DA0But, I need to specify the AST in the prevously > >> referenced SYS$QIO so it will queue when the F6 is pressed.- Hide quot= ed =3D > >text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >What is "your_ctrl_c_ast_routine"? > > >Is it the ast that is suppose to run when ctrl/c is hit? =A0I don't see > >how that would address the issue. > > >However if I run the routine that executes the QIO in executive mode, > >and I specify in the QIO call that the > >AST is to be run in executive mode then that should work. > > >That is, I need to run this (enanulirp) in executive mode: > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0integer*4 function enanulirp () > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0implicit none > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 ONE-LINE DESCRIPTION > > >CT =A0 =A0 =A0Enable null AST for CTRL/C (ENANULIRP) > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 FUNCTION (transformation on inputs to outputs) > > >CF =A0 =A0 =A0 The ENANULIRP procedure disables the interrupt > >CF =A0 =A0 =A0caused by CTRL/C by replacing it with an AST that > >CF =A0 =A0 =A0does nothing except re-establish the AST. > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS > > >CD =A0 =A0 =A0ENANULIRP is not 100% successful if CTRL/C or the F6 key i= s > >CD =A0 =A0 =A0held down, since the next interrupt may arrive before the > >CD =A0 =A0 =A0AST is re-established. > > >CD =A0 =A0 =A0ENANULIRP disables the CTRL/C that is delivered by the F6 = key > >CD =A0 =A0 =A0when line editing is enabled for the terminal. > >CD =A0 =A0 =A0SMG$SET_OUT_OF_BAND_ASTS fails to do this. > > >CD =A0 =A0 =A0ENANULIRP does not interfere with SMG$SET_OUT_OF_BAND_ASTS= ; > >any > >CD =A0 =A0 =A0CTRL/C defined by SMG$SET_OUT_OF_BAND_ASTS will still run. > > >C*********************************************************************** > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 INCLUDE FILES > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0INCLUDE '($SYSSRVNAM)' =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0! System > >services > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0INCLUDE '($IODEF)' =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0! $QIO > >function codes > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0include '($psldef)' =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 !PSL symbolic names > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 PARAMETER DECLARATIONS > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 ARGUMENT DECLARATIONS > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 VARIABLE DECLARATIONS > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0integer*4 =A0 =A0 =A0 iosb(2) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 !I/O Status block > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0integer*2 =A0 =A0 =A0 chn =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 !Channel > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0save chn > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0integer*4 =A0 =A0 =A0 sts =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 !Completion status > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 SUBPROGRAM DECLARATIONS > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 EXTERNAL DECLARATIONS > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0external =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0nulirpast > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0external =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ss$_normal > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 PROGRAM LOGIC > > >CL.le; =A0Initialize the status variable. > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0sts =3D3D %loc(ss$_normal) > > >CL.le; =A0Enable AST so that NULIRPAST is called when Ctrl/C is pressed. > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0if (chn .eq. 0) then > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 sts =3D3D sys$assign ('tt:', chn,,,) > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0end if > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0if (sts) then > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 sts =3D3D sys$qiow > >(, =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0! =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(3) > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 %val(chn), > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 %val(IO$_S= ETMODE .or. IO$M_CTRLCAST), > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 iosb,,, > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A01 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 nulirpast,= ,%val(psl$c_exec),,,) > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0end if > > >CL.le; =A0Set the return status. > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0enanulirp =3D3D sts > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0return > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0end > > >And that will cause nulirpast to be called: > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0subroutine nulirpast () > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0implicit none > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 INCLUDE FILES > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 PARAMETER DECLARATIONS > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 ARGUMENT DECLARATIONS > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 VARIABLE DECLARATIONS > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0integer*4 =A0 =A0 =A0 sts =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 !Completion status > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 SUBPROGRAM DECLARATIONS > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0integer*4 enanulirp > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 EXTERNAL DECLARATIONS > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0external =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ss$_normal > > >C =A0 =A0 =A0 PROGRAM LOGIC > > >CL.le; =A0Initialize the status variable. > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0sts =3D3D %loc(ss$_normal) > > >CL.le; =A0Re-establish the AST > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0sts =3D3D enanulirp() > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0if (.not. sts) then > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0call lib$signal(%val(sts)) > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0end if > > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0return > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0end > > OK. =A0You can't pass PSL$C_EXEC as the AST mode and expect it to fire of= f > in EXECUTIVE mode if you are calling the $QIO from USER mode. =A0You need > to invoke the $QIO from EXECUTIVE mode. =A0The CTRL-C AST is a one-timer! > You need to reenable it in the AST. =A0You can, since your AST will be in > EXECUTIVE mode, invoke the $QIO there to reenable the AST. =A0I suspected > that you ALREADY had this AST routine coded in this fashion and suggest- > ed that you use the $DCLAST to invoke the AST the first time out. > > You also have NOT specified an event flag. =A0Thus, you get the default o= f > EFN=3D0. =A0This can cause all sorts of strange issues for other bits of = your > code waiting on event flags. =A0Include ($EFNDEF) and pass EFN$C_ENF in t= he > $QIO (first arg) by %VAL. Thank you so much for mentioning the efn issue. It caused serious problems for VMS when I tried to start the app from a batch file (but no problem for interactive startups during testing.) I would really be stumped if you had not mentioned this. > > I'd answer sooner if I didn't have to read quoted-pukeable Fortran code. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =A0 =A0 =A0VAXman(at)TME= SIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional prote= ction > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (= NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. =A0Publication of _this_ usenet article = outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copy= right > notice, disclaimer and quotations.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:45:17 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: On Oct 22, 9:23=A0pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > Alan, > > I copied a file to your EISNER account default. =A0It is called: > > GET_COMMAND_LINE_RECALL.COM > > It uses SYMBOL (which is installed on EISNER) and gets the DCL > command line recall info similar to RECALL/ALL. =A0This procedure > shows how easy it is to get this using DCL. =A0You can modify the > procedure to do what you may want in addition to its accessing > the recall buffer. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =A0 =A0 =A0VAXman(at)TME= SIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional prote= ction > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (= NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. =A0Publication of _this_ usenet article = outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copy= right > notice, disclaimer and quotations. Thanks, VAXMAN. I tried it today and it works great! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:20:21 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: <00A818B3.B607F132@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , AEF writes: >On Oct 22, 9:23=A0pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> Alan, >> >> I copied a file to your EISNER account default. =A0It is called: >> >> GET_COMMAND_LINE_RECALL.COM >> >> It uses SYMBOL (which is installed on EISNER) and gets the DCL >> command line recall info similar to RECALL/ALL. =A0This procedure >> shows how easy it is to get this using DCL. =A0You can modify the >> procedure to do what you may want in addition to its accessing >> the recall buffer. >> >> -- >> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =A0 =A0 =A0VAXman(at)TME= >SIS(dot)COM >> >> ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional prote= >ction >> no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (= >NJSC) >> >> Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. =A0Publication of _this_ usenet article = >outside >> of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copy= >right >> notice, disclaimer and quotations. > >Thanks, VAXMAN. I tried it today and it works great! I put a slight modified version in your directory a little while ago. I didn't handle cases where a command string can get broken into two pieces in the recall buffer. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:12:38 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Message-ID: I have a system ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:14:27 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Message-ID: <1ea80856-22b5-497a-8474-6e3d86956659@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Oct 23, 4:12=A0pm, AEF wrote: > I have a system Uh, I fat fingered an premature Send. Stay tuned for the full question. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:27:54 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Message-ID: On Oct 23, 4:14=A0pm, AEF wrote: > On Oct 23, 4:12=A0pm, AEF wrote: > > > I have a system Boy, I wish I could have seen the looks on your faces when you saw that the line above was the entire post! > > Uh, I fat fingered an premature Send. Stay tuned for the full > question. > > AEF Uh, that should have been: "Uh, I fat-fingered a premature Send. Stay tuned for the full question." Anyway, here's my question: I have a system with four RZ28 disks installed. I want to use one of them as a target for on-disk backups of the other disks which will then be FTPed to another, possibly remote, system. So this means that I will primarily have just one large file on this disk at any given time, and maybe a few small files for whatever reason (and a few directories, of course). What params should I use to INITIALIZE this disk? (For those of you who are too young to remember, these disks are 2 GB in size. Or more accurately: 4110480 TOTAL BLOCKS.) OK, so I was thinking of large value for /CLUSTER large value for /EXTEND, maybe 10000 small value for /HEADERS medium value for /MAXIMUM_FILES What do y'all think? Is it even worth bothering with? Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:49:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Message-ID: <97dcb29d-fd36-46b0-ba5f-b9e99764a3b2@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 23, 4:27=A0pm, AEF wrote: : > I will primarily have just one large file on this disk at any given : > disk? (For those of you who are too young to remember, these disks are > 2 GB in size. Or more accurately: 4110480 TOTAL BLOCKS.) I'm old enough... 7200 rpm, narrow scsi, big then, very small now. You are better of with a $99 500GB USB drive if you can hook that up! > OK, so I was thinking of large value for /CLUSTER. Yeah sure... like 512. > large value for /EXTEND, maybe 10000 Certainly, line 64000 > small value for /HEADERS Sure... 100? > medium value for /MAXIMUM_FILES Sure... 1000? And maybe add /INDEX=3DBEG > What do y'all think? Is it even worth bothering with? I would, but I would not expect much from it other then no longer having the think whether I should have tweaked it some. :-). Piece of mind. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:52:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Message-ID: On Oct 23, 3:27 pm, AEF wrote: > On Oct 23, 4:14 pm, AEF wrote: > > > On Oct 23, 4:12 pm, AEF wrote: > > > > I have a system > > Boy, I wish I could have seen the looks on your faces when you saw > that the line above was the entire post! > > > > > Uh, I fat fingered an premature Send. Stay tuned for the full > > question. > > > AEF > > Uh, that should have been: > > "Uh, I fat-fingered a premature Send. Stay tuned for the full > question." > > Anyway, here's my question: > > I have a system with four RZ28 disks installed. I want to use one of > them as a target for on-disk backups of the other disks which will > then be FTPed to another, possibly remote, system. So this means that > I will primarily have just one large file on this disk at any given > time, and maybe a few small files for whatever reason (and a few > directories, of course). What params should I use to INITIALIZE this > disk? (For those of you who are too young to remember, these disks are > 2 GB in size. Or more accurately: 4110480 TOTAL BLOCKS.) > > OK, so I was thinking of > > large value for /CLUSTER > > large value for /EXTEND, maybe 10000 > > small value for /HEADERS > > medium value for /MAXIMUM_FILES > > What do y'all think? Is it even worth bothering with? > > Thanks! AEF, Since it is a temporary disk, it always can be redone. The [effective] OP, does not mention the version of the system. It may matter. Extension is important. This is similar to the situation which caused me to use RMS transparent file access, to gain the multibuffering advantage. FAL honors the RMS buffering and blocking parameters, BACKUP has not always done so. The DECnet overhead is far less in that session than the repeated extends and real time delays. Remember that the allocations for the directories are minimally one cluster, thus a truly large cluster factor is not necessarily efficient. Also consider whether it is wise to ZIP the resuling save sets (and verify that thy UNZIP correctly). - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:39:20 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Message-ID: AEF wrote: > I have a system Congratulations! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:51:00 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Message-ID: <2ZidnQxN_eHab53UnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@comcast.com> AEF wrote: > On Oct 23, 4:14 pm, AEF wrote: >> On Oct 23, 4:12 pm, AEF wrote: >> >>> I have a system > > Boy, I wish I could have seen the looks on your faces when you saw > that the line above was the entire post! > >> Uh, I fat fingered an premature Send. Stay tuned for the full >> question. >> >> AEF > > Uh, that should have been: > > "Uh, I fat-fingered a premature Send. Stay tuned for the full > question." > > Anyway, here's my question: > > I have a system with four RZ28 disks installed. I want to use one of > them as a target for on-disk backups of the other disks which will > then be FTPed to another, possibly remote, system. So this means that > I will primarily have just one large file on this disk at any given > time, and maybe a few small files for whatever reason (and a few > directories, of course). What params should I use to INITIALIZE this > disk? (For those of you who are too young to remember, these disks are > 2 GB in size. Or more accurately: 4110480 TOTAL BLOCKS.) > > OK, so I was thinking of > > large value for /CLUSTER > OK! > large value for /EXTEND, maybe 10000 OK > small value for /HEADERS > OK > medium value for /MAXIMUM_FILES Try SMALL! You are proposing to put THREE files on this disk; a Master File Directory, INDEXF.SYS and a BACKUP saveset. The smallest INDEXF.SYS you could have would be one block (I think). The BACKUP saveset could be less than a GB and you might manage to have two or three of them. I'd try something like /MAXIMUM_FILES=10. > > What do y'all think? Is it even worth bothering with? > > Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:56:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Message-ID: <26e02b21-95a3-4ad2-89db-2709bb4a8e74@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Oct 23, 4:51 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > AEF wrote: > > On Oct 23, 4:14 pm, AEF wrote: > >> On Oct 23, 4:12 pm, AEF wrote: > > >>> I have a system > > > Boy, I wish I could have seen the looks on your faces when you saw > > that the line above was the entire post! > > >> Uh, I fat fingered an premature Send. Stay tuned for the full > >> question. > > >> AEF > > > Uh, that should have been: > > > "Uh, I fat-fingered a premature Send. Stay tuned for the full > > question." > > > Anyway, here's my question: > > > I have a system with four RZ28 disks installed. I want to use one of > > them as a target for on-disk backups of the other disks which will > > then be FTPed to another, possibly remote, system. So this means that > > I will primarily have just one large file on this disk at any given > > time, and maybe a few small files for whatever reason (and a few > > directories, of course). What params should I use to INITIALIZE this > > disk? (For those of you who are too young to remember, these disks are > > 2 GB in size. Or more accurately: 4110480 TOTAL BLOCKS.) > > > OK, so I was thinking of > > > large value for /CLUSTER > > OK! > > large value for /EXTEND, maybe 10000 > > OK > > > small value for /HEADERS > > OK > > medium value for /MAXIMUM_FILES > > Try SMALL! You are proposing to put THREE files on this disk; a Master > File Directory, INDEXF.SYS and a BACKUP saveset. > > The smallest INDEXF.SYS you could have would be one block (I think). The > BACKUP saveset could be less than a GB and you might manage to have two > or three of them. I'd try something like /MAXIMUM_FILES=10. > > > > > What do y'all think? Is it even worth bothering with? > > > Thanks! Richard, With the cluster sizes proposed, the maximum files (and file headers) might as well be one or two clusters each. Anything less just does not use the space allocated. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 23:10:10 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: INIT params for disk to build on-disk save sets Message-ID: <00A818CB.6EBE2203@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <26e02b21-95a3-4ad2-89db-2709bb4a8e74@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter writes: >On Oct 23, 4:51 pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" >wrote: >> AEF wrote: >> > On Oct 23, 4:14 pm, AEF wrote: >> >> On Oct 23, 4:12 pm, AEF wrote: >> >> >>> I have a system >> >> > Boy, I wish I could have seen the looks on your faces when you saw >> > that the line above was the entire post! >> >> >> Uh, I fat fingered an premature Send. Stay tuned for the full >> >> question. >> >> >> AEF >> >> > Uh, that should have been: >> >> > "Uh, I fat-fingered a premature Send. Stay tuned for the full >> > question." >> >> > Anyway, here's my question: >> >> > I have a system with four RZ28 disks installed. I want to use one of >> > them as a target for on-disk backups of the other disks which will >> > then be FTPed to another, possibly remote, system. So this means that >> > I will primarily have just one large file on this disk at any given >> > time, and maybe a few small files for whatever reason (and a few >> > directories, of course). What params should I use to INITIALIZE this >> > disk? (For those of you who are too young to remember, these disks are >> > 2 GB in size. Or more accurately: 4110480 TOTAL BLOCKS.) >> >> > OK, so I was thinking of >> >> > large value for /CLUSTER >> >> OK! >> > large value for /EXTEND, maybe 10000 >> >> OK >> >> > small value for /HEADERS >> >> OK >> > medium value for /MAXIMUM_FILES >> >> Try SMALL! You are proposing to put THREE files on this disk; a Master >> File Directory, INDEXF.SYS and a BACKUP saveset. >> >> The smallest INDEXF.SYS you could have would be one block (I think). The >> BACKUP saveset could be less than a GB and you might manage to have two >> or three of them. I'd try something like /MAXIMUM_FILES=10. >> >> >> >> > What do y'all think? Is it even worth bothering with? >> >> > Thanks! > > >Richard, > >With the cluster sizes proposed, the maximum files (and file headers) >might as well be one or two clusters each. Anything less just does not >use the space allocated. Exactly. However, for a couple of files, is this going to be an enormous storage saving? I am not fond of stuffing a drive close to its capacity in some cases as there's the potential of inadequate space for the task at hand. Wipe out the File Systems Internals and look up the calculations if you're not familiar with them to use the space most wisely. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:42:28 +0930 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: OpenVMS Book Wins award Message-ID: <01110d0c$0$20616$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> yyyc186 wrote: > The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Orieted Architecture by > Roland Hughes > > Award-Winner in the Business: Technology/Computers/Internet category > of the National Best Books 2008 Awards, sponsored by USA Book News Congratulations Roland! (I purchased it when AU$ was almost at US$ parity :-) > You can find this book in Island Computer's Web store. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:15:06 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on Message-ID: <00A818A2.3676A903@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating >> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person >> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture >> of. > >Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being >produced. > >But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what >a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are >some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-) I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't be so sure they're not blade enclosures. ;) >If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing >15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-) ...and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Oct 2008 16:58:39 -0400 From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on Message-ID: JF Mezei writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating >> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person >> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture >> of. > Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being > produced. Hey! There's an ex-MS employee (as in, that's where we hired him away from) currently working on systems in the collection for which I'm responsible, who has just finished up putting our 11/785's into running condition, and who has 4000 and 6000 systems in his own private collection. He's less than 10 years younger than I, and trust me, is old enough to know RA drives first hand. -- Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:38:43 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: VMS SIG discovers what Billy really relies on Message-ID: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <4900b9c3$0$1556$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>> Actually, I expect it is an old piece of clipart that MS had floating >>> around when they needed a picture of a computer. I doubt the person >>> who put it ont he web page even had a clue what it was actually a picture >>> of. >> Correct. Microsoft weenies weren't born when RA drives were still being >> produced. >> >> But it is still interesting to see those weenies not have a clue on what >> a modern data centre looks like. They probably think those RA drives are >> some sort of blade enclosure :-) :-) > > I cut my hands many times pulling RAs out on their rails, so I wouldn't > be so sure they're not blade enclosures. ;) > > >> If only they knew that those were likely 400 or 600 meg drives, drawing >> 15 amps of power with 1/3 HP motor that was outside the HDA :-) :-) :-) > > ...and just what's wrong with belt-driven mass storage? :P > ISTR seeing some IBM hardware in a McGraw-Hill data center. There was a double width cabinet, dimensions 6'x6'x3' which contained a 3HP electric motor and a belt driven HDA whose storage was measured in megabytes. I could and did, fit more storage in my jacket pocket in the form of an RZ26/28/29! To be fair, I think they were scrapping it out. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:28:25 -0700 From: Fred Bach Subject: Re: What does this mean? Message-ID: <4900DE69.50903@triumf.ca> David B Sneddon wrote: > On Oct 16, 8:00 pm, tadamsmar wrote: >> The VMS 7.3-2 command: >> >> HELP DEFINE /KEY PARA >> >> Provides this in the text: >> >> "You can also press Ctrl/V to enable keys F7 to F14. Note that Ctrl/V >> will not enable the F6 key." >> >> What does this mean? >> >> Ctrl/V appears to do nothing. > > > example: (on my keyboard) > pressing F8 does nothing > $ define/key F8 help > pressing F8 does nothing > pressing ctrl/V THEN F8 does something > > Dave Yes, I reproduced this exactly on my PC keyboard (X-windowed to a VMS machine). But there must be a bigger picture. What's behind it all? What's the idea? Thanks. . fred bach . music at triumf dot c a ------------------------------ Date: 23 Oct 2008 16:51:26 -0400 From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <7YILk.51592$rD2.28765@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, > islandco.com" writes: >> Software is free on Linux so .... > How dare you suggest hosting comp.os.vms on anything but VMS! 8-) An interesting notion, "hosting" a Usenet newsgroup. That would imply a centralized database of postings, would it not? Net.news is of course quite intentionally *not* centralized, to avoid 1. Single point of failure issues b) Censorship of views differing from those of the owner(s) of the host comp.os.vms <> info-vax ! -- Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:22:50 GMT From: John Santos Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <_O6Mk.3211$Rx2.3186@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Rich Alderson wrote: > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > > >>In article <7YILk.51592$rD2.28765@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "David Turner, >>islandco.com" writes: > > >>>Software is free on Linux so .... > > >> How dare you suggest hosting comp.os.vms on anything but VMS! 8-) > > > An interesting notion, "hosting" a Usenet newsgroup. That would imply a > centralized database of postings, would it not? Net.news is of course quite > intentionally *not* centralized, to avoid > > 1. Single point of failure issues > b) Censorship of views differing from those of the owner(s) of the host > > comp.os.vms <> info-vax ! > I took David to mean that he was willing to set up a nntp server that would include comp.os.vms (and hopefully the other DEC/VMS related news groups, such as the vmsnet tree, comp.sys.dec, etc.) Comcast has apparently dropped (or is about to drop) all of usenet. Verizon has dropped all but the big 8, including vmsnet.* I think a free news server that gathered all the VMS/DEC/Compaq*/HP* groups in one place would be a worthy enterprise (* if there are any Compaq or HP groups that specifically relate to VMS and other inherited DEC hardware or software, I don't think anyone here is particularly interested in any of the HP-UX, Compaq PC. etc. groups unless they also own one of them, and there are other sources for those.) If he is really just proposing "yet another web site catering to the usual bunch of VMS suspects" (YAWSCTTUBOVS), there are already openvms.org, ITRC, Encompass, Eisner, Death-Row, and a bunch of other places. I think distributed consolidation (usenet) would be better than dispersal. -- John Santos Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 01:18:22 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <8660a3a10810232218m78de8169i8b0bc3057e8c2257@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: >> >> I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one >> by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone >> does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he >> is no longer aboard. >> >> Anyone else having similar feelings ? >> >> Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no >> longer participating here ? > > I might be among the missing soon! > > Comcast has decided it does not want to provide access to newsgroups as part > of "High Speed Internet" service. They want me to get it from some third > party for more money! > > It DOES seem like a conspiracy! > Only if you're paranoid. Subscribe to Info-VAX. That's what it's there for. WWWebb ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.574 ************************