INFO-VAX Mon, 27 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 580 Contents: Re: AS200 and DE500 Re: AS200 and DE500 Re: AS200 and DE500 Re: AS200 and DE500 Re: AS200 and DE500 Re: Bell Labs closes Re: Bell Labs closes RE: Bell Labs closes Re: Bell Labs closes Re: Bell Labs closes Re: Bell Labs closes Re: Bell Labs closes Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net OT: Spam Re: OT: Spam SYSMAN Problem Re: SYSMAN Problem Re: SYSMAN Problem Re: SYSMAN Problem SYSMAN PROBLEM Re: SYSMAN Problem Re: SYSMAN PROBLEM Re: SYSMAN PROBLEM Re: SYSMAN Problem Re: When was "Line editing" introduced? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:59:12 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: AS200 and DE500 Message-ID: <4904AFF0.FAF43ECF@spam.comcast.net> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > > Steven M. Schweda wrote: > > From: David J Dachtera > > > >> I acquired a DE500 ethernet card recently and was wondering if anyone > >> knows will it work in my AlphaStation 200? > > > > How long would it take to try it? > > > > There's more than one "-xx" in "DE500-xx". As I recall, I used a -BA > > in my AlpSta 200 4/233 systems (back when I used my AlpSta 200 4/233 > > systems). I'm too far away to check at the moment. I'd expect the SPD > > or some other official document to have an authoratative answer. A > > search of comp.os.vms over the past decade might offer some hints, too. > > > > What's wrong with the built-in (slower) interface? Not very many PCI > > slots to waste in there. > > > > The built in interface is 10/100, the same as the DE500. Installing a > DE500 is pointless unless you need a second Ethernet interface or you > somehow fried the built in interface. I've tried the built-in at the "fastfd" setting and got nowhere. Could be faulty, I suppose... D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 14:29:03 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: AS200 and DE500 Message-ID: <08102614290334_202032E4@antinode.info> From: David J Dachtera > I've tried the built-in at the "fastfd" setting and got nowhere. Could > be faulty, I suppose... 1. If you think that "got nowhere" is a useful description of what happened, think again. 2. If it's a 10Mb/s interface, which seems to be the consensus, then I wouldn't expect "fast" to work. And if it's not fast, then I wouldn't expect "fd" to work, either. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:39:03 -0000 From: "John Wallace" Subject: Re: AS200 and DE500 Message-ID: "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in message news:08102614290334_202032E4@antinode.info... > From: David J Dachtera > > > I've tried the built-in at the "fastfd" setting and got nowhere. Could > > be faulty, I suppose... > > 1. If you think that "got nowhere" is a useful description of what > happened, think again. > > 2. If it's a 10Mb/s interface, which seems to be the consensus, then > I wouldn't expect "fast" to work. And if it's not fast, then I wouldn't > expect "fd" to work, either. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 Indeed, "got nowhere" provides little in the way of troubleshooting info. Anyhow, wrt DE500: there were various flavours of DE500, and VMS patches may be required for correct operation, depending on VMS version in use. These are described in 14.23 of the VMS FAQ, findable at http://hoffmanlabs.org/vmsfaq/vmsfaq_025.html ps apologies for the delayed reply, Google groups is seemingly on holiday again today, and as I write this it does not appear to have had any new posts since Mark Daniel's post dated Oct 25th, 22:49:10 +9:30 Message-ID: 011308d4$0$20645$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com . Which is a shame for folks like me who use Google Groups because my home news provider isn't accessible from work, and vice versa, but that's a story for another topic. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:32:44 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: AS200 and DE500 Message-ID: <4905284C.F2141F18@spam.comcast.net> John Wallace wrote: > > "Steven M. Schweda" wrote in message > news:08102614290334_202032E4@antinode.info... > > From: David J Dachtera > > > > > I've tried the built-in at the "fastfd" setting and got nowhere. Could > > > be faulty, I suppose... > > > > 1. If you think that "got nowhere" is a useful description of what > > happened, think again. > > > > 2. If it's a 10Mb/s interface, which seems to be the consensus, then > > I wouldn't expect "fast" to work. And if it's not fast, then I wouldn't > > expect "fd" to work, either. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info > > 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 > > Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 > > Indeed, "got nowhere" provides little in the way of troubleshooting info. If anyone has a suggestion to better express "no link, no data transfer, no diagnostic messages" than "doesn't work", I'm all ears. ...or are there extensive diagnostics built into SRM that either remain little known / undocumented or otherwise osbcure? I've never seen anything similar to the following in SRM: >>> set ewa0 fastfd %SRM-E-UNSUPP, EWA0 hardware does not support "fastfd" D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:45:09 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: AS200 and DE500 Message-ID: <7s6dnXOlvOUhtpjUnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast.com> David J Dachtera wrote: > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: >> Steven M. Schweda wrote: >>> From: David J Dachtera >>> >>>> I acquired a DE500 ethernet card recently and was wondering if anyone >>>> knows will it work in my AlphaStation 200? >>> How long would it take to try it? >>> >>> There's more than one "-xx" in "DE500-xx". As I recall, I used a -BA >>> in my AlpSta 200 4/233 systems (back when I used my AlpSta 200 4/233 >>> systems). I'm too far away to check at the moment. I'd expect the SPD >>> or some other official document to have an authoratative answer. A >>> search of comp.os.vms over the past decade might offer some hints, too. >>> >>> What's wrong with the built-in (slower) interface? Not very many PCI >>> slots to waste in there. >>> >> The built in interface is 10/100, the same as the DE500. Installing a >> DE500 is pointless unless you need a second Ethernet interface or you >> somehow fried the built in interface. > > I've tried the built-in at the "fastfd" setting and got nowhere. Could > be faulty, I suppose... > > D.J.D. I dug out my "User Information" manual and it does not support my recollection that 100MB was an option. I was either remembering a different machine or hallucinating. Sorry about that. Full or Half Duplex is the only settable option. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:00:14 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: <4904bf4f$0$9630$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Neil Rieck wrote: > the UNIX operating system and the C programming language), Bell Labs > is closing. What has happened to the sputnik society? As I read the article, it made it look much more like what Hurd did to HP's R&D department (HP Labs ?) than "closing". The article says that Alcatel will get Bell Labs to focus on marketable products instead of toy around with esoteric concepts. The USA has so far survived because of R&D allowing it to be first to market with new products (especially in IT and telecom), and asia eventually manufacturing them at lower cost under contract. When the chinese start to get their own R&D efforts like Bell Labs, watch out. They will truly rule the world. And world economics will have to change. The current system is based on some balanced flow of goods/money between countries. Not sure it can support a very large country like the USA living almost entirely on imported goods and exporting very little. In the case of Cars, the USA may have been importing lots of cars from Canada, but the profits from making cars in Canada all went back to the USA (because GM/Chrysler/Ford are based in USA). So it is a fairly balanced exchange. When Kraft Australia exports cheese to Japan, profits end up eventually flowing back to Kraft's USA headquarters and shareholders. So while it doesn't affect USA trade numbers, it does help the balance of payments. But when you have chinese owned industries exporting goods to the USA, the profits stay in China and the trade imbalance is very big. Companies like Digital lived because they thought they could charge a premium for their products. Instead of trimming down and charging less to be competitive, they got fat and charged a bigger premium. And when they charges a premium, they were profitable and had spare cash to fund esoteric projects similar to Bell Labs. Those companies that decided to survive, will be trimming down to become more competitive and may no longer afford to have just esoteric projects. And this poses an interesting problem: will the western company be able to compete head to head with China on a cost basis ? The lack of esoteric research basically ensures that the western company won't come up with something *totally* new that China won't have. For instance, just speculating here, but if HP's Labs are now focused on building a better plastic box for its ink (and better ink), it won't produce anything really new. Just allow HP to start adding "new and improved" labels on its ink boxes for a few months. But if the chinese sell ink for 1/10 the price of HP's highly marked up prices, HP won't last very long because it depends so much on its ability to sell overpriced plastic boxes filled with coloured mix of alchool/water. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:22:01 +0100 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: JF Mezei schrieb: > And this poses an interesting problem: will the western > company be able to compete head to head with China on a cost basis ? The > lack of esoteric research basically ensures that the western company > won't come up with something *totally* new that China won't have. This kind of projections of the future are mostly flawed, since they assume that things will just go on indefinitely like they did in the past. For China this would mean to assume, that they always will be more cost effective and at the same time more inventive than the West. I don't think so. Wages will increase, as will transport costs, making it increasingly unattractive to import from there. This has happened in Eastern Europe, which a decade ago was seen a big threat to Western Europe employees. No more. I've seen reports that e.g. Estonian constructors hire german companies because they are cheaper, more dependable, and work at fixed prices. And China has a lot of problems on its own, repeating all mistakes of western industrialization in record time. Gigantic pollution with associated costs (health, environment), a rapidly aging population, and social problems of all kinds. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:19:15 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED8166CDF@GVW1158EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Kraemer [mailto:M.Kraemer@gsi.de] > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:22 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes > > JF Mezei schrieb: > > > And this poses an interesting problem: will the western > > company be able to compete head to head with China on a cost basis ? > The > > lack of esoteric research basically ensures that the western company > > won't come up with something *totally* new that China won't have. > > This kind of projections of the future are mostly flawed, since > they assume that things will just go on indefinitely like they did > in the past. For China this would mean to assume, that they always > will be more cost effective and at the same time more inventive than > the West. [snip ..] Darwin theory - "it's not the strong that will survive, but rather the most adaptable to change ..." Some good lessons in this theory. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:26:38 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: <490526DE.4CA399@spam.comcast.net> "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > [snip ..] > > Darwin theory - "it's not the strong that will survive, but rather the > most adaptable to change ..." Well, no - not quite. The essence of Darwin is that those species which are BEST ADAPTED to their environment are the most able/likely to survive. If the environment changes, it can take many generations for adaptations to appear that will help a species to continue/recover. For example, "drug resistant" microbes did not "respond"to antibiotics, rather they simply continued their natural proclivities for mutation. Those that survive in the greatest numbers are those least susceptible to antibiotics. I understand what you were trying to say. My point is that Darwin is not a good source for appropriate citations in that context. In and of itself, change is neither good nor bad. "It depends". Change for the sake of change rarely produces anything positive. Change where change is appropriate usually leads to a more desirable result than the status quo. D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:04:45 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > Neil Rieck wrote: > >> the UNIX operating system and the C programming language), Bell Labs >> is closing. What has happened to the sputnik society? > > As I read the article, it made it look much more like what Hurd did to > HP's R&D department (HP Labs ?) than "closing". The article says that > Alcatel will get Bell Labs to focus on marketable products instead of > toy around with esoteric concepts. > > The USA has so far survived because of R&D allowing it to be first to > market with new products (especially in IT and telecom), and asia > eventually manufacturing them at lower cost under contract. > > When the chinese start to get their own R&D efforts like Bell Labs, > watch out. They will truly rule the world. > > And world economics will have to change. The current system is based on > some balanced flow of goods/money between countries. Not sure it can > support a very large country like the USA living almost entirely on > imported goods and exporting very little. > > In the case of Cars, the USA may have been importing lots of cars from > Canada, but the profits from making cars in Canada all went back to the > USA (because GM/Chrysler/Ford are based in USA). So it is a fairly > balanced exchange. > > When Kraft Australia exports cheese to Japan, profits end up eventually > flowing back to Kraft's USA headquarters and shareholders. So while it > doesn't affect USA trade numbers, it does help the balance of payments. > > > But when you have chinese owned industries exporting goods to the USA, > the profits stay in China and the trade imbalance is very big. > When the Chinese get their house in order to the point where no one would even think of adulterating milk with melmine, they will become a commercial power. Right now I'd be VERY careful with ANYTHING "Made in China". It's a shame that they, and other countries, have to learn the hard way, lessons that the rest of the world takes for granted! I read, five or six years ago, about a hotel fire in Singapore. Only the desk clerk survived! There were bars on all the windows, no fire escapes, no sprinkler system, etc, etc! No building codes or fire codes? Officials "on the take"? Even though humans CAN learn from the experience of others, it seems that we don't do it very well! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:34:13 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: <490537c7$0$9620$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Michael Kraemer wrote: > I don't think so. Wages will increase, as will transport costs, > making it increasingly unattractive to import from there. On the surface yes. But if , by the time Chain's costs/wages rise, the western economy will be decimated and without viable manufacturing infrastructure ? Rebuilding it will be very hard. Look at Russia. Were it not for their oil and gas, they wouldn't have any money to try to rebuild from their heydays bafore their decline and they are still stuck with ancient infrastructure. The other issue here is that while you accept that people in Asia will enentually get higher wages and better living conditions, nobody accepts that the western world would have to lower its standard of living in order to remain competitive. This could be done in a controlled way, or there could be a depression that really forces wages way down abruptly in the western world. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 23:41:28 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Bell Labs closes Message-ID: <1ISdnc9N28typZjUnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@comcast.com> JF Mezei wrote: > Michael Kraemer wrote: > >> I don't think so. Wages will increase, as will transport costs, >> making it increasingly unattractive to import from there. > > On the surface yes. But if , by the time Chain's costs/wages rise, the ^^^^^^^ It's not easy being dyslexic! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 14:24:41 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net Message-ID: <4904b7ed$0$10448$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Brad Hamilton wrote: > OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup > access, and here I am, still posting... When Bell Canada did the same some years ago, the NNTP service remained available for a number of months afterwards. The civil servant/paper pushers at Bell may have made some decision, but implementing it required someone actually find which box on a rack provided NNTP service :-) :-) ;-) Seriously, it also has to do with commercial customers who may depend on that service and Comcast has to find ways to continue to provide this service to them while blocking retail customer's IPs. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:42:40 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:24:41 -0700, JF Mezei wrote: > Brad Hamilton wrote: > >> OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup >> access, and here I am, still posting... > > When Bell Canada did the same some years ago, the NNTP service remained > available for a number of months afterwards. The civil servant/paper > pushers at Bell may have made some decision, but implementing it > required someone actually find which box on a rack provided NNTP service > :-) :-) ;-) > > Seriously, it also has to do with commercial customers who may depend on > that service and Comcast has to find ways to continue to provide this > service to them while blocking retail customer's IPs. News.Individual.NET costs 10€/annum latency immediate -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:15:02 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net Message-ID: <49050804$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Tom Linden wrote: > On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:24:41 -0700, JF Mezei > wrote: >> Brad Hamilton wrote: >>> OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup >>> access, and here I am, still posting... >> >> When Bell Canada did the same some years ago, the NNTP service remained >> available for a number of months afterwards. The civil servant/paper >> pushers at Bell may have made some decision, but implementing it >> required someone actually find which box on a rack provided NNTP service >> :-) :-) ;-) >> >> Seriously, it also has to do with commercial customers who may depend on >> that service and Comcast has to find ways to continue to provide this >> service to them while blocking retail customer's IPs. > > News.Individual.NET costs 10€/annum latency immediate http://news.aioe.org/ is free - it does have a few restrictions, but my guess is that many can live with those. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:21:57 -0500 From: BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net Message-ID: In article <49050804$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Arne Vajhøj wrote: >Tom Linden wrote: >> On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:24:41 -0700, JF Mezei >> wrote: >>> Brad Hamilton wrote: >>>> OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup >>>> access, and here I am, still posting... [...] >>> Seriously, it also has to do with commercial customers who may depend on >>> that service and Comcast has to find ways to continue to provide this >>> service to them while blocking retail customer's IPs. >> >> News.Individual.NET costs 10€/annum latency immediate > >http://news.aioe.org/ is free - it does have a few restrictions, >but my guess is that many can live with those. Both good backup choices - and thanks for the advice. I've prepared myself to use either one, if Comcast's NG feed goes away. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:33:45 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: newsgroups.comcast.net Message-ID: Brad Hamilton wrote: > In article <3eudnZAZ2IUbymPVnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com>, Richard B. Gilbert > wrote: > [...] >> I might be among the missing soon! >> >> Comcast has decided it does not want to provide access to newsgroups as >> part of "High Speed Internet" service. They want me to get it from some >> third party for more money! >> >> It DOES seem like a conspiracy! > > OK - here it is, day one after Comcast was supposed to disable newsgroup > access, and here I am, still posting... > > I don't have a Giganews subscription (the only way that Comcast subscribers are > supposed to remain unaffected by the change). > > So for now, Richard, it looks "safe" to continue using Comcast for newsgroup > posting. Better have a backup, though, just in case... The effective date that Comcast announced in their message to me was 28 October! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 11:37:22 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: OT: Spam Message-ID: Not complaining,:-) but am seeing quite a reduction is spam I wonder if this has anything to do with the recent financial meltdown, or is zen.spamhaus.org working better? -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:07:57 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: OT: Spam Message-ID: <00A81B0D.795BA884@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >Not complaining,:-) but am seeing quite a reduction is spam >I wonder if this has anything to do with the recent financial >meltdown, or is zen.spamhaus.org working better? Now that all of those MBS derivatives that were being marketed in SPAM campaigns have all gone broke, there's no more need to market them, so fewer SPAMs. However, there still seems to be an epidemic of men with inadequately sized sexual organs, so you won't see much of a reduction in those SPAMs. As long as the world is chock full of lawyers, there will still be plenty of "little pricks". -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:49:44 -0700 (PDT) From: lee.morgan@o2.com Subject: SYSMAN Problem Message-ID: <9b4d6626-0559-4b18-ba6e-e02b60c9941a@e2g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Hello All I use SYSMAN to connect to many of my VMS nodes to run generic commands and I'm having problems with one specific node. My setup is as follows: $ ASSIGN/TABLE=SYSMAN$NODE_TABLE/NOLOG - ABSLIV,ABSUAT,ABSDEV,ABSTST,ABSMSI,SPTEST,ABSCUK ABS I then SYSMAN set env/node=ABS which works fine and I put my password in without issue. I then run SYSMAN> do show system/process=*dec* which works across all nodes except on one for which I get the following message: %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node SPTEST OpenVMS V7.3-2 on node SPTEST 26-OCT-2008 17:46:49.96 Uptime 45 08:58:51 Pid Process Name State Pri I/O CPU Page flts Pages 0013FE43 DECevent_SPTEST HIB 6 909 0 00:00:00.20 1939 1045 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ABSCUK %SYSMAN-I-NODERR, error returned from node ABSCUK -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node I can run standard decnet commands between the target and source node without any issues so I don't think it's a uaf problem. Also, decnet_register is correct for both nodes when looking at each other. If anyone can shed any light on this I'd be really grateful. Thanks very much. Lee. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 13:07:06 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: SYSMAN Problem Message-ID: <4904B1CA.1C3E9A5E@spam.comcast.net> lee.morgan@o2.com wrote: > > Hello All > > I use SYSMAN to connect to many of my VMS nodes to run generic > commands and I'm having problems with one specific node. > > My setup is as follows: > > $ ASSIGN/TABLE=SYSMAN$NODE_TABLE/NOLOG - > ABSLIV,ABSUAT,ABSDEV,ABSTST,ABSMSI,SPTEST,ABSCUK ABS > > I then SYSMAN set env/node=ABS which works fine and I put my password > in without issue. > > I then run SYSMAN> do show system/process=*dec* which works across all > nodes except on one for which I get the following message: > > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node SPTEST > OpenVMS V7.3-2 on node SPTEST 26-OCT-2008 17:46:49.96 Uptime 45 > 08:58:51 > Pid Process Name State Pri I/O CPU Page > flts Pages > 0013FE43 DECevent_SPTEST HIB 6 909 0 00:00:00.20 > 1939 1045 > > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ABSCUK > %SYSMAN-I-NODERR, error returned from node ABSCUK > -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node > > I can run standard decnet commands between the target and source node > without any issues so I don't think it's a uaf problem. > > Also, decnet_register is correct for both nodes when looking at each > other. > > If anyone can shed any light on this I'd be really grateful. > > Thanks very much. > > Lee. "decnet_register", eh? Sounds like DECnet-V. Unless there's something about DECnet-V you absolutely, positively cannot live without, I'd "upgrade" to the earlier DECnet-IV so you can "set it and forget it" and it "just works". D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:47:06 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: SYSMAN Problem Message-ID: <00A81B02.2E41A552@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <4904B1CA.1C3E9A5E@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: >lee.morgan@o2.com wrote: >> >> Hello All >> >> I use SYSMAN to connect to many of my VMS nodes to run generic >> commands and I'm having problems with one specific node. >> >> My setup is as follows: >> >> $ ASSIGN/TABLE=SYSMAN$NODE_TABLE/NOLOG - >> ABSLIV,ABSUAT,ABSDEV,ABSTST,ABSMSI,SPTEST,ABSCUK ABS >> >> I then SYSMAN set env/node=ABS which works fine and I put my password >> in without issue. >> >> I then run SYSMAN> do show system/process=*dec* which works across all >> nodes except on one for which I get the following message: >> >> %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node SPTEST >> OpenVMS V7.3-2 on node SPTEST 26-OCT-2008 17:46:49.96 Uptime 45 >> 08:58:51 >> Pid Process Name State Pri I/O CPU Page >> flts Pages >> 0013FE43 DECevent_SPTEST HIB 6 909 0 00:00:00.20 >> 1939 1045 >> >> %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ABSCUK >> %SYSMAN-I-NODERR, error returned from node ABSCUK >> -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node >> >> I can run standard decnet commands between the target and source node >> without any issues so I don't think it's a uaf problem. >> >> Also, decnet_register is correct for both nodes when looking at each >> other. >> >> If anyone can shed any light on this I'd be really grateful. >> >> Thanks very much. >> >> Lee. > >"decnet_register", eh? Sounds like DECnet-V. > >Unless there's something about DECnet-V you absolutely, positively >cannot live without, I'd "upgrade" to the earlier DECnet-IV so you can >"set it and forget it" and it "just works". David, I been running Phase-V for years (a decade+) and it's just as "set it and forget it" for me and it "just works". One thing that's been helpful in a number of circumstances is DECnet over IP. It has saved much time and pain with a couple of VMS client/customers in the past. I really don't think it's all that much of a pain or difficult to use. Understandably, there are those that still haven't weened themselves off of the old NCP syntax, so it seems much more difficult. Verbosity aside, NCL is not all that bad. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:54:22 +0100 From: "H Vlems" Subject: Re: SYSMAN Problem Message-ID: <4904bbf8$0$28985$bf4948fe@news.tele2.nl> schreef in bericht news:9b4d6626-0559-4b18-ba6e-e02b60c9941a@e2g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > Hello All > [snip] > Pid Process Name State Pri I/O CPU Page > flts Pages > 0013FE43 DECevent_SPTEST HIB 6 909 0 00:00:00.20 > 1939 1045 > > %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ABSCUK > %SYSMAN-I-NODERR, error returned from node ABSCUK > -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node > > I can run standard decnet commands between the target and source node > without any issues so I don't think it's a uaf problem. > > Also, decnet_register is correct for both nodes when looking at each > other. > > If anyone can shed any light on this I'd be really grateful. > > Thanks very much. > > Lee. There are several things that surprise me: 1) the remote command does return some information, though not everything if I understand you well 2) ABSCUK *is* the remote node, right, so the required network object was/is defined at ABSCUK. 3) but the example seems to indicate that the remote command runs on node SPTEST Observations 2 and 3 can't both be true, so that's why I'm puzzled. Is it possible to give us the equivalent of SHO OBJECT CHAR and SHO EXEC CHAR (I agree that phase 4 is a lot less structured but q a lot easier to remember) for all three nodes (ABSCUK, SPTEST and the local node). Hans ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:01:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Morgan Subject: SYSMAN PROBLEM Message-ID: Hello I define a logical to be able to connect to remote nodes using SYSMAN and then run generic commands across all of the afore mentioned servers but I'm having a problem with one of them. The logical defined is as follows: ASSIGN/TABLE=SYSMAN$NODE_TABLE/NOLOG - ABSLIV,ABSUAT,ABSDEV,ABSTST,BACC01,BACC02,SPTEST,ABSCUK ABS I then run SYSMAN> SET ENV/NODE=ABS I then run SYSMAN> do show system/process=*DEC* This works on all of the servers apart from one for which I get the error: %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ABSCUK %SYSMAN-I-NODERR, error returned from node ABSCUK -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node I can however, run remote DECnet commands on both servers to each other and the DECNET_REGISTER info looks correct on both nodes. Can anyone shed any light on this at all please? Thanks in advance. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:08:22 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: SYSMAN Problem Message-ID: <4904c1b1$0$12358$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> lee.morgan@o2.com wrote: > $ ASSIGN/TABLE=SYSMAN$NODE_TABLE/NOLOG - > ABSLIV,ABSUAT,ABSDEV,ABSTST,ABSMSI,SPTEST,ABSCUK ABS > > I then SYSMAN set env/node=ABS which works fine and I put my password > in without issue. > > I then run SYSMAN> do show system/process=*dec* which works across all > nodes except on one for which I get the following message: > -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node SYSMAN uses SCS to communicate when SET ENV/CLUSTER But when SET ENV/NODE=xxx then SYSMAN uses DECNET to create decnet tasks on each node with the username/password that was supplied. It depends on an object called SMISERVER existing on remote nodes. The failing node probably doesn't have that object configured [properly] SMISERVER appears to be a decnet object created dynamically by the process "SMISERVER". (it isn't in the DECNET permanent object database). Do you have the process SMISERVER running on that node ? Has it created the SMISERVER decnet object ? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:29:06 GMT From: "Colin Butcher" Subject: Re: SYSMAN PROBLEM Message-ID: Does node ABSCUK have SMISERVER as a defined "object" (SESSION CONTROL APPLICATION in Phase V)? I'd be slightly surprised if it didn't, but it's worth checking. It it a co-incidence that node ABSCUK is the last in your list? Have you tried adding a "," or another (fake) node at the end of the list? What happens if you use SYSMAN> SET ENVIRONMENT/NODE=(ABSCUK) on its own? What happens if you use SET ENV/NOD=(ABS) [with the brackets]? -- Cheers, Colin. Legacy = Stuff that works properly! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 18:06:22 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: SYSMAN PROBLEM Message-ID: <4904eb6a$0$12409$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Colin Butcher wrote: > Does node ABSCUK have SMISERVER as a defined "object" (SESSION CONTROL > APPLICATION in Phase V)? I'd be slightly surprised if it didn't, but it's > worth checking. On Phase 4, the SMISERVER decnet object is created dynamically by the SMISERVER process. So it is not "defined" in some permanent database. Either SMISERVER process is unable to create the decnet object, or the decnet is not defined to accept calls from ither nodes, or SMISERVER has disapeared from that node. I think you can attempt to restart SMISERVER from the SYSTEM account with: (if SMISERVER is no longer running) @SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP SMISERVER ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:38:08 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: SYSMAN Problem Message-ID: <49052990.17C66B88@spam.comcast.net> VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > In article <4904B1CA.1C3E9A5E@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > >lee.morgan@o2.com wrote: > >> > >> Hello All > >> > >> I use SYSMAN to connect to many of my VMS nodes to run generic > >> commands and I'm having problems with one specific node. > >> > >> My setup is as follows: > >> > >> $ ASSIGN/TABLE=SYSMAN$NODE_TABLE/NOLOG - > >> ABSLIV,ABSUAT,ABSDEV,ABSTST,ABSMSI,SPTEST,ABSCUK ABS > >> > >> I then SYSMAN set env/node=ABS which works fine and I put my password > >> in without issue. > >> > >> I then run SYSMAN> do show system/process=*dec* which works across all > >> nodes except on one for which I get the following message: > >> > >> %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node SPTEST > >> OpenVMS V7.3-2 on node SPTEST 26-OCT-2008 17:46:49.96 Uptime 45 > >> 08:58:51 > >> Pid Process Name State Pri I/O CPU Page > >> flts Pages > >> 0013FE43 DECevent_SPTEST HIB 6 909 0 00:00:00.20 > >> 1939 1045 > >> > >> %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node ABSCUK > >> %SYSMAN-I-NODERR, error returned from node ABSCUK > >> -SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHOBJ, network object is unknown at remote node > >> > >> I can run standard decnet commands between the target and source node > >> without any issues so I don't think it's a uaf problem. > >> > >> Also, decnet_register is correct for both nodes when looking at each > >> other. > >> > >> If anyone can shed any light on this I'd be really grateful. > >> > >> Thanks very much. > >> > >> Lee. > > > >"decnet_register", eh? Sounds like DECnet-V. > > > >Unless there's something about DECnet-V you absolutely, positively > >cannot live without, I'd "upgrade" to the earlier DECnet-IV so you can > >"set it and forget it" and it "just works". > > David, I been running Phase-V for years (a decade+) and it's just as > "set it and forget it" for me and it "just works". One thing that's > been helpful in a number of circumstances is DECnet over IP. It has > saved much time and pain with a couple of VMS client/customers in the > past. > > I really don't think it's all that much of a pain or difficult to use. > Understandably, there are those that still haven't weened themselves > off of the old NCP syntax, so it seems much more difficult. Verbosity > aside, NCL is not all that bad. It's not that great, either. I haven't seen NCL for years, but I do remember that the "non-volatile database" is the .NCL files which are read during startup of DECnet. I also recall that device counters can only be zeroed by rebooting. I don't think there's an equivalent of "TELL ", either. That's saved my skin a few times, also. As I said, if there's something about DECnet-V you absolutely, positively cannot live without, than run DECnet-V. Otherwise, I don't recommend it. YMMV... D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:15:16 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: When was "Line editing" introduced? Message-ID: <4904c1c1$0$90269$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Rob Brooks wrote: > tadamsmar writes: >> When was SET TERM/LINE (Line editing) introduced? >> >> I don't think is was in VMS back in the early eighties. >> >> But I don't recall when it was first introduced. > > Probably when SMG was released, which was either V4.4 or V4.2, but > I'd bet on V4.4. I don't think it is using SMG$. (but 4.4 sound correct) Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:54:40 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <4904AEE0.9DA56B80@spam.comcast.net> Neil Rieck wrote: > [snip] > You are correct that there are fewer people working in OpenVMS > engineering. On the flip side, I am in private contact with some > OpenVMS developers and maintainers who toldf me they never post here > because of the constant bickering and negativity. One HP employee told > me that the "comp" in "comp.os.vms" stands for "complain" and > sometimes I agree with them. Lets hope those same "non posters" are > still lurking. To them I say this: Suppose YOU run a business, and your staff cause your customers to become irate. There are two choices here: 1. Ignore the complaints = conditions and/or the product/business stagnate or continue to deteriorate. 2. Address the complaints = conditions and/or the product/business improve. It's -YOUR- choice. Suppose you have pain and inflammation in an appendage. 1. You can ignore the pain and possibly lose the effected appendage, possibly your life. 2. You can address the pain and save the effected appendage, possibly your life. "Complaints" are like pain: they tell us when something is wrong. Our response to that warning determines the quality of our results. Again, it's -YOUR- choice. Either you want things to improve, or you are willing to let things go to the point of destruction / necrosis, etc. "Although its been said, many times, many ways", choose wisely. David J Dachtera formerly dba DJE Systems (Emphasis on: "formerly" - not by my choice) ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.580 ************************