INFO-VAX Thu, 27 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 633 Contents: Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: 150 year Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Autogen params report... Re: Autogen params report... Re: Autogen params report... Re: Autogen params report... Re: Autogen params report... Re: Autogen params report... Re: Banana Republic (was Re: OpenVMS Book Wins award) Re: Banana Republic (was Re: OpenVMS Book Wins award) CIQBA & PQDRIVER Re: CIQBA & PQDRIVER Re: CIQBA & PQDRIVER Re: Emulation Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Re: forwarding email to a distribution list Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: Installing memory Integrating VMS applications, business-rules, and data Re: Integrating VMS applications, business-rules, and data Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables OpenVMS manuals available for free - Watford, UK Re: OpenVMS manuals available for free - Watford, UK Re: OpenVMS manuals available for free - Watford, UK Re: OpenVMS manuals available for free - Watford, UK Re: OpenVMS manuals available for free - Watford, UK OpenVMS NetBeans Issue OpenVMS NetBeans Issue Resolved Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop OT - Debugging Serial Communications Re: OT - Debugging Serial Communications Re: OT - Debugging Serial Communications Re: OT - Debugging Serial Communications Re: OT - Debugging Serial Communications Re: OT - Debugging Serial Communications Re: OT - Debugging Serial Communications Re: OT - Debugging Serial Communications Re: OT - Debugging Serial Communications OT righthandedness: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: OT righthandedness: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop OT: Left-handedness (was:Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop) Re: Seagate ST31051N on MicroVAX 3100 VMS User administration via LDAP Re: VMS User administration via LDAP Re: VMS User administration via LDAP Re: VMS User administration via LDAP Re: VMS User administration via LDAP Re: VMS User administration via LDAP Re: VMS, HP and the recession Re: Wget Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget Re: Wget X Windows Recommendation with OVMS Re: X Windows Recommendation with OVMS Re: X Windows Recommendation with OVMS Re: X Windows Recommendation with OVMS Re: X Windows Recommendation with OVMS Re: X Windows Recommendation with OVMS Re: X Windows Recommendation with OVMS Re: X Windows Recommendation with OVMS Re: X Windows Recommendation with OVMS Re: X Windows Recommendation with OVMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Nov 2008 08:58:43 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-vQY6NhIiuihW@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, "Bob Eager" writes: > > However, looking at BSD (FreeBSD is what I'm looking at, as it happens), > the underlying system call, gettimeofday() works down to microseconds. Returning data in milliseconds is not quite the same as "works down to microseconds." A comment in early UNIX source about not being able to get the clock accurate to milliseconds is a well known part of many critisisms of UNIX. Of course, that was early UNIX source. As far as what your particular UNIX or UNIX-like OS can do, all UNIX are different. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:07:28 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <0019fa02$0$6640$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Bob Koehler wrote: > Of course, that was early UNIX source. As far as what your > particular UNIX or UNIX-like OS can do, all UNIX are different. Wouldn't clock accuracy be tied to the hardware more than to the OS ? For instance, wouldn't there be some Unix that has better time resolution when running on platform X than on platform Y because X has a more precise clock that gives millisecond increments while Y only has seconds ? Or do all hardware platforms give extremely precise clocking (since they need it internally) and it is really the OS that "dumbs it down" to coarser resolutions ? Also, on VMS, when you look at the $QIO terminal driver, the resolution for timeout is in seconds. And if I remember correctly, there are other system services where the resolution is much coarser than what the VMS quadtime format provides. (doesn't $WAIT also have a lower limit ?). ------------------------------ Date: 24 Nov 2008 15:39:36 GMT From: "Bob Eager" Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-docJddh0v8qU@rikki.tavi.co.uk> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:58:43 UTC, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-vQY6NhIiuihW@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, "Bob Eager" writes: > > > > However, looking at BSD (FreeBSD is what I'm looking at, as it happens), > > the underlying system call, gettimeofday() works down to microseconds. > > Returning data in milliseconds is not quite the same as "works down > to microseconds." A comment in early UNIX source about not being able > to get the clock accurate to milliseconds is a well known part of > many critisisms of UNIX. > > Of course, that was early UNIX source. As far as what your > particular UNIX or UNIX-like OS can do, all UNIX are different. My point was that the resolution is almost certainly better than a second, and that the previous post was, by quoting accuracy as a second, confusing the limitations of the C library with any OS limitation. Using the C library as a measure, UNIX and VMS would both only work to a second... -- Bob Eager Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:01:36 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-vQY6NhIiuihW@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, "Bob Eager" writes: >> However, looking at BSD (FreeBSD is what I'm looking at, as it happens), >> the underlying system call, gettimeofday() works down to microseconds. > > Returning data in milliseconds is not quite the same as "works down > to microseconds." A comment in early UNIX source about not being able > to get the clock accurate to milliseconds is a well known part of > many critisisms of UNIX. > > Of course, that was early UNIX source. As far as what your > particular UNIX or UNIX-like OS can do, all UNIX are different. > On Solaris 8, the difference between two successive calls to the subroutine/function that returns the time is one microsecond. I actually tried this several years ago. The time is delivered at that precision even though it's nowhere near that accurate. -- draco vulgaris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:36:49 -0700 From: Glen Herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: (snip) > Fortran defined the DATE function as returning (in part) the > two-digit year since 1900. Obviously that definition couldn't be > adheared to in 2000. The function was redefined to return the > last two digits in the year, and a new function was added that > returns the four digit year. The only code I have that uses DATE > just wants to report the year and those two digits are fine. Fortran has the DATE_AND_TIME subroutine that returns the date in CCYYMMDD format. I think that was added relatively recently, and I don't know of any DATE function/subroutine in older versions of the Fortran standard. It might be that some compilers had a non-standard DATE function. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:00:08 -0800 (PST) From: David B Sneddon Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <37592bcd-00d7-43f8-bf52-3f9d78694931@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com> On Nov 25, 2:36=A0pm, Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote: > > Fortran has the DATE_AND_TIME subroutine that returns the date > in CCYYMMDD format. =A0I think that was added relatively recently, > and I don't know of any DATE function/subroutine in older versions > of the Fortran standard. > > It might be that some compilers had a non-standard DATE function. > > -- glen Pet peave... why do people use the format CCYYMMDD when the CC does *not* represent the century? The current date is 20081125 but the leading 20 does not mean the 20th century... The format is more correctly represented as YYYYMMDD. None of the ISO standards I have seen use the CCYY notation. Normal transmission will now be resumed. Dave ------------------------------ Date: 25 Nov 2008 08:12:19 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <+gfMHFKGnpwE@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article , Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: > > Fortran has the DATE_AND_TIME subroutine that returns the date > in CCYYMMDD format. I think that was added relatively recently, > and I don't know of any DATE function/subroutine in older versions > of the Fortran standard. > > It might be that some compilers had a non-standard DATE function. Actually, it might be the IDATE subroutine. I don't have the Fortran standard handy, but it is not marked as an extension in the VMS Fortran manual. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Nov 2008 15:12:14 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <6p2iueF5u24cU2@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , Johnny Billquist writes: >> >> I don't know about the US, but in Sweden, the frequency of the A/C mains, are >> guaranteed to be exactly 50 Hz. If the frequency drops a little during high load >> times, they make up for it during the night. So over 24h, it should be as >> accurate as anything you can think of. >> > > US line frequency of 60hz is held to a very tight standard. Your joking, right? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 25 Nov 2008 15:59:49 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: In article <6p2iueF5u24cU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Your joking, right? Nope. The standard is real and the results are, too. Voltage, however, may vary. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Nov 2008 00:32:09 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <6p3jo9F65vkgU1@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <6p2iueF5u24cU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> Your joking, right? > > Nope. The standard is real and the results are, too. > > Voltage, however, may vary. Well, it's been a long time so things may have gotten better but I once built a "digital" clock for our living room that used the line freq. for it's time standard (Heathkit). It differed from the proverbial broken clock in that it was not even correct twice a day. It has also been a long time since I was in a place that needed to monitor the powerline but I remember the chart recorder showing a lot of variance in both the voltage and frequency. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 17:29:16 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:12:22 -0800, JF Mezei wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >>> US line frequency of 60hz is held to a very tight standard. >> >> Your joking, right? > > No joke. They need perfect synchronisation so that each generating plant > provide power to the grid at the exact same phase of the 60hz. A > generator that would off by a 120th of a second (half a phase) would in > essence reduce the grid's power. > > There are , if I recall properly, 2 main grids in north america, on for > the east and one for the west. Within each region, all 60hz is > synchronised, even between different grids inside the region. And power > exchanges between east and west grids is done via AC-DC-AC converters to > ensure the power at the other end matches that grid's phase. How is it distributed on the grid? When I lived in Los Altos there were 110KV lines nearby and I thought they were 3 phase. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: 25 Nov 2008 22:32:37 EST From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: <1tyFq4TTtLLj@wvnvms> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <6p2iueF5u24cU2@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> Your joking, right? > > Nope. The standard is real and the results are, too. > > Voltage, however, may vary. Agreed. A clock running with a motor synced to 60Hz on the US grid will be extremely accurate even over a multi-year period (assuming no power outages). Voltage, however, can vary a lot (I have seen our 480V supply vary from 485 to 507) depending on time of day, day of week, season, temperature, etc. George Cook WVNET ------------------------------ Date: 25 Nov 2008 22:55:39 EST From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:12:22 -0800, JF Mezei > wrote: > >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>>> US line frequency of 60hz is held to a very tight standard. >>> >>> Your joking, right? >> >> No joke. They need perfect synchronisation so that each generating plant >> provide power to the grid at the exact same phase of the 60hz. A >> generator that would off by a 120th of a second (half a phase) would in >> essence reduce the grid's power. >> >> There are , if I recall properly, 2 main grids in north america, on for >> the east and one for the west. Within each region, all 60hz is >> synchronised, even between different grids inside the region. And power >> exchanges between east and west grids is done via AC-DC-AC converters to >> ensure the power at the other end matches that grid's phase. > > How is it distributed on the grid? When I lived in Los Altos there were > 110KV > lines nearby and I thought they were 3 phase. The lines carry three phases each of which is 60Hz. The three phases are 120 degrees out of phase with each other. Too bad oscilloscopes are no longer common because it is very easy to understand three phase power once you see it on a multi-channel oscilloscope. George Cook WVNET ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:18:45 -0700 From: Glen Herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: (snip) > Well, it's been a long time so things may have gotten better but I once > built a "digital" clock for our living room that used the line freq. for > it's time standard (Heathkit). It differed from the proverbial broken > clock in that it was not even correct twice a day. Digital clocks count the 60Hz line. There should be at least some filtering between the line and the clock logic. Otherwise, the clock can easily count high frequency noise on the power line. (TTL up to about 30MHz or so, a little less for MOS.) -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:25:18 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: 150 year Message-ID: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> Nope. The standard is real and the results are, too. >> >> Voltage, however, may vary. >Well, it's been a long time so things may have gotten better but I once >built a "digital" clock for our living room that used the line freq. for >it's time standard (Heathkit). It differed from the proverbial broken >clock in that it was not even correct twice a day. It has also been a >long time since I was in a place that needed to monitor the powerline >but I remember the chart recorder showing a lot of variance in both >the voltage and frequency. I also built a digital clock (not Heathkit) when I was a kid, that would run off the power line signal as a time source. It kept time just fine. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:38:09 -0700 From: Glen Herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: Michael Moroney wrote: > There's a company that's been selling a whole bunch of Itanium rx2600 > systems on Ebay, for as low as $100 each (without management processor > card) or $250 for ones with it. Has anyone here grabbed one and put VMS > on it? Without hard disk, but with a DVD drive and 10GB RAM. (With disk tray and screws, for easy installation.) I suppose one could run Linux live without a hard disk. (If there is an Itanic version.) I presume the management processor won't be so important for hobbyist usage. I now bought one, and will register it to the hobbyist site when it arrives. Anyone in the Seattle area have a VMS CD (or DVD?) that I could borrow? At $399 or $250 it wasn't quite low enough for hobby use, but $100 isn't so bad. I think I have enough SCSI disks around, too. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:13:15 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: >Michael Moroney wrote: >> There's a company that's been selling a whole bunch of Itanium rx2600 >> systems on Ebay, for as low as $100 each (without management processor >> card) or $250 for ones with it. Has anyone here grabbed one and put VMS >> on it? >Without hard disk, but with a DVD drive and 10GB RAM. >(With disk tray and screws, for easy installation.) >I suppose one could run Linux live without a hard disk. >(If there is an Itanic version.) >I presume the management processor won't be so important >for hobbyist usage. I now bought one, and will register >it to the hobbyist site when it arrives. Anyone in the >Seattle area have a VMS CD (or DVD?) that I could borrow? >At $399 or $250 it wasn't quite low enough for hobby use, >but $100 isn't so bad. I think I have enough SCSI disks >around, too. That's the one I got as well. I haven't gotten it going yet other than making sure it comes up to the console/boot menu. I just have older SCSI disks, I will get something that's U320/U160 that works in the tray. I believe there are Linuxes for it as well. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:55:34 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: <689571e0-fada-4e7f-bc5f-1d1da338d251@3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> On Nov 25, 5:38=A0pm, Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote: > Michael Moroney wrote: > I presume the management processor won't be so important for hobbyist usa= ge. An MP allows me to have my RX in the basement and power it on and off as I deem fit from anywhere. To me that is very important, for others that might not matter. Cheers, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:14:09 -0700 From: Glen Herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: (snip) > An MP allows me to have my RX in the basement and power it on and off > as I deem fit from anywhere. To me that is very important, for others > that might not matter. For $150 or so I would figure out how to control a relay to do that. I have a spare parallel port print servers. That and a relay and a little extra electronics should do it. I probably won't, though. Then again, most PCs will do that without a management card. (The ON requires wake-on-lan, though.) -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:27:02 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: <00A83318.74F6E0D5@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: > >>Michael Moroney wrote: >>> There's a company that's been selling a whole bunch of Itanium rx2600 >>> systems on Ebay, for as low as $100 each (without management processor >>> card) or $250 for ones with it. Has anyone here grabbed one and put VMS >>> on it? > >>Without hard disk, but with a DVD drive and 10GB RAM. >>(With disk tray and screws, for easy installation.) > >>I suppose one could run Linux live without a hard disk. >>(If there is an Itanic version.) > >>I presume the management processor won't be so important >>for hobbyist usage. I now bought one, and will register >>it to the hobbyist site when it arrives. Anyone in the >>Seattle area have a VMS CD (or DVD?) that I could borrow? > >>At $399 or $250 it wasn't quite low enough for hobby use, >>but $100 isn't so bad. I think I have enough SCSI disks >>around, too. > >That's the one I got as well. I haven't gotten it going yet other than >making sure it comes up to the console/boot menu. I just have older SCSI >disks, I will get something that's U320/U160 that works in the tray. > >I believe there are Linuxes for it as well. Debian Linux. HP shipped an enablement CD/DVD with their Itanium boxes to allow installation of Debian. $ cat /proc/version Linux version 2.4.25-hpe-9-mckinley-smp (root@biglpk) (gcc version 3.2.3 (Debian)) #1 SMP Wed Aug 11 11:59:05 UTC 2004 -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:30:14 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: >On Nov 25, 5:38=A0pm, Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote: >> Michael Moroney wrote: >> I presume the management processor won't be so important for hobbyist usage. I didn't write the above. >An MP allows me to have my RX in the basement and power it on and off >as I deem fit from anywhere. To me that is very important, for others >that might not matter. I'd like the management processor because a noisy system like this would be benished to the basement, however the systems with the MP were $150 more and didn't include the DVD unit (or a SCSI card that's apparently not supported on VMS). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:07:53 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: On Nov 26, 2:14=A0am, Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > (snip) > > > An MP allows me to have my RX in the basement and power it on and off > > as I deem fit from anywhere. To me that is very important, for others > > that might not matter. > > For $150 or so I would figure out how to control a relay to do that. And that is a route I should really go, such that I can also power up/ down my MSA, and a side-car or two with disks independently. But I have not even started to look for that. If someone happens to know of a telnet or web-page controllable 4 to 8 outlet switch please do reply. Also, the MP gives TELNET access to the console. While I have the infrastructure for serial line consoles, telnet is proferred for me. In the mean time the premium possibly dropped to $100, depending on YOU They are now listing for $199 minimum bid. Let's agree not to fight and nicely take turns? Me first! I put my $200 max bid out there for the one closing "Nov-27-08 01:10:00 PST" There is one every two hours or so. > I have a spare parallel port print servers. =A0That and a relay > and a little extra electronics should do it. =A0I probably > won't, though. Same hold true for me. I probably could wire this up, and it would be a cute excercise notably if one of our daughter would join, but I don't think I'll get aournd to it, and certainly not in a professional (safe) manner. Cheers, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:28:35 -0700 From: Glen Herrmannsfeldt Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: (snip) > But I have not even started to look for that. > If someone happens to know of a telnet or web-page controllable 4 to 8 > outlet switch please do reply. I believe they exist for just this reason. I suppose like the computers, they might appear on eBay from time to time. Many years ago (high school years) I though about building a box with relays controlled by a serial (two wire) link from a box of switches. Later, when I knew about UARTs, the idea of doing it from a serial link came up. (Latch the data byte and control eight relays.) > Also, the MP gives TELNET access to the console. > While I have the infrastructure for serial line consoles, > telnet is proferred for me. The previously mentioned print serves have both serial and parallel ports. In addition, I have a Xyplex terminal server which does reverse telnet. (I only recently found the software for that and haven't tried it yet.) 16 port and rack mountable, that would be good for a rack of servers. -- glen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:08:40 -0800 (PST) From: FrankS Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: On Nov 26, 2:07=A0pm, Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > Also, the MP gives TELNET access to the console. > While I have the infrastructure for serial line consoles, telnet is > proferred for me. DECserver 90 series, 700, and 900 (and possible others) all support reverse Telnet. You could pick one up on eBay (or Island Computer), connect up all the serial lines, and then telnet to any console. You will need DNAS software, but early versions are available on some older condist kits. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:25:33 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: <7e2ae314-be47-46c6-8ddc-02988ccfa377@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com> On Nov 26, 11:30=A0am, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: > > >On Nov 25, 5:38=3DA0pm, Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrot= e: > >> Michael Moroney wrote: > >> I presume the management processor won't be so important for hobbyist = usage. > > I didn't write the above. Sorry 'bout the bad quote. Glen wrote that in answer to you, but I trimmed it down too much. Hein>> While I have the infrastructure for serial line consoles, telnet is preferred for me. FrankS> DECserver 90 series, 700, and 900 (and possible others) all support reverse Telnet. That would be the infrastructure I was referring to :-). I have an DECserver 90M setup for console access, and while it does evoke good memories, I see it as 'last resort'. Hein. > > >An MP allows me to have my RX in the basement and power it on and off > >as I deem fit from anywhere. To me that is very important, for others > >that might not matter. > > I'd like the management processor because a noisy system like this would > be benished to the basement, however the systems with the MP were $150 > more and didn't include the DVD unit (or a SCSI card that's apparently no= t > supported on VMS). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:00:46 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Weaver Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: <5e37e938-c873-4475-a654-8b3aa63a53c3@z1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> >... > They are now listing for $199 minimum bid. > Let's agree not to fight and nicely take turns? =A0Me first! > I put my $200 max bid out there for the one closing "Nov-27-08 > 01:10:00 PST" > There is one every two hours or so. >... They do look like good deals, too bad they won't ship outside the US. Is there any COV person in Buffalo or Niagara Falls area who can order one for me so I can drive over the river and pick it up? Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com Winner of the 2007 OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System Management/Performance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:57:27 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Autogen params report... Message-ID: Hi. Today we had som problem with a number of processes going into RWMBX state. This has something with mailbox devices to do, as far as I understand. I've tried with ana/sys, sda>set proc/id=xxx and sda> sh proc/chan to find the MB devices, but none of the RWMBX processes has any channels to any MBA device. Now what ? What else could make them go into RWMBX ? I have also runedd an autogen just in case... Now, most was "as expected" with minor maginal adjustments of DIR cache and so on. But there was some major adjustments that I'd like to get some comments on (marked with "<<== !!" below in the list). Could these have something to do with RWMBX ? I've also included an SHO MEM at the end... System is an DS20e with 4 GB mem. Jan-Erik. AUTOGEN was run from SAVPARAMS to TESTFILES... Feedback information was collected on 26-NOV-2008 13:43:02.93 The feedback data is based on 222 hours of up time. Feedback information will be used in the subsequent calculations Parameter information follows: ----------------------------- MAXPROCESSCNT parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 689, New value is 651 Maximum Observed Processes: 465 Information on OpenVMS executable image Processing: Processing SYS$MANAGER:VMS$IMAGES_MASTER.DAT Total global pagelets counted = 51762 Total global sections counted = 218 Total global pagefile counted = 346 Total resident code pages counted = 651 Total resident data pages counted = 0 GBLPAGES parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 3321614, New value is 7027238 Maximum used GBLPAGES: 602912 Global buffer requirements: 393984 Pagelets reserved for memory resident sections: 0 LOCKIDTBL parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 1792, New value is 107776 <<== !! Current number of locks: 200469 Peak number of locks: 214016 RESHASHTBL parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 2048, New value is 524288 <<== !! Current number of resources: 152788 NPAGEDYN parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 5488640, New value is 13524992 <<== !! Maximum observed non-paged pool size: 16203776 bytes. Non-paged pool request rate: 12 requests per 10 sec. GH_EXEC_CODE parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 1024, New value is 1024 GH_EXEC_DATA parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 512, New value is 512 GH_RES_CODE parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 1584, New value is 1584 - AUTOGEN parameter calculation has been overridden. The calculated value was 1536. The value 1584 will be used in accordance with the following requirements: GH_RES_CODE minimum value is 1584. GH_RES_DATA parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 0, New value is 0 LNMSHASHTBL parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 512, New value is 2048 Current number of shareable logical names: 2609 PAGEDYN parameter information: Feedback information. Old value was 6512640, New value is 6701056 Current paged pool usage: 2961184 bytes. Paged pool request rate: 44 requests per 10 sec. (Prob OK) Calculations for page, swap, and dump files. -------------------------------------------- Errorlog dumpfile calculations: No errorlog dump file modifications should be made. Errorlog dumpfile will remain at 42 blocks. Dump file calculations: A 4345873 block dump file should be created. Page file calculations: PAGEFILE1_SIZE information (for DISK$ALPHASYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE1.SYS;1): Feedback information. Old value was 900000, New value is 4198400 Maximum observed usage (blocks): 121824 PAGEFILE1_SIZE will be modified to hold 4198400 blocks PAGEFILE2_SIZE information (for SYS$SYSTEM:PAGEFILE.SYS): Feedback information. Old value was 2105300, New value is 4198400 Maximum observed usage (blocks): 121984 PAGEFILE2_SIZE will be modified to hold 4198400 blocks ** Note ** Free space on the system disk is insufficient to extend both the page file and the dump file. No dump file changes will be made at this time. Swap file calculations: SWAPFILE1_SIZE information (for SYS$SYSTEM:SWAPFILE.SYS): Feedback information. Old value was 88100, New value is 83300 Maximum observed usage (blocks): 5120 SWAPFILE1 will not be modified. The file size is within 10% $ sh mem System Memory Resources on 26-NOV-2008 19:05:41.07 Physical Memory Usage (pages): Total Free In Use Modified Main Memory (4.00GB) 524288 354943 144158 25187 ("Free" is usualy much lower during day/work time) Granularity Hint Regions (pages): Total Free In Use Released Execlet code region 1024 0 1015 9 Execlet data region 512 0 417 95 S0/S1 Executive data region 701 0 701 0 Resident image code region 2048 0 1184 864 Slot Usage (slots): Total Free Resident Swapped Process Entry Slots 689 415 274 0 Balance Set Slots 687 415 272 0 Dynamic Memory Usage: Total Free In Use Largest Nonpaged Dynamic Memory (MB) 6.76 0.58 6.17 0.11 Bus Addressable Memory (KB) 160.00 158.87 1.12 158.87 Paged Dynamic Memory (MB) 6.21 3.51 2.69 3.51 Lock Manager Dyn Memory (MB) 52.76 0.12 52.64 Buffer Object Usage (pages): In Use Peak 32-bit System Space Windows (S0/S1) 0 0 64-bit System Space Windows (S2) 4 4 Physical pages locked by buffer objects 4 0 Memory Reservations (pages): Group Reserved In Use Type Total (0 bytes reserved) 0 0 Swap File Usage (8KB pages): Index Free Size DISK$ALPHASYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYS 1 5504 5504 Paging File Usage (8KB pages): Index Free Size DISK$ALPHASYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE1.SYS;1 253 56248 56248 DISK$ALPHASYS:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYS 254 131576 131576 Total size of all paging files: 187824 Total committed paging file usage: 107870 Of the physical pages in use, 8575 pages are permanently allocated to OpenVMS. $ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:06:36 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Autogen params report... Message-ID: <001cd518$0$6642$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Hi. > Today we had som problem with a number > of processes going into RWMBX state. > I've tried with ana/sys, sda>set proc/id=xxx and > sda> sh proc/chan to find the MB devices, > but none of the RWMBX processes has any > channels to any MBA device. This is strange. A mailbox is created with a certain buffer space. You can write to the mailbox until that buffer space is full, after which, subsequent writes will put your process in RWMBX state. When a process reads from a mailbox, it frees space in the buffer, allowing more writes to complete. So normally, you have a process that reads data from a mailbox as soon as the other process has written to it, so there is no RWMBX involved. But if the reading process "jams" and stops reading from the maibox, then you can quickly get into RWMBX status for processes writing to it. Is it possible that ANA/SYS would not show channels to a mailbox that is causing the RWMBX state ? What if you do SHOW DEV MBA/FULL and look for the process ID of your RWMBX process ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:18:50 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Autogen params report... Message-ID: <880486a6-c177-41e7-9907-924577cee16e@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> isefuJan-Erik, In the interests of conserving bandwidth (and disk space), I am not quoting the original post in this thread. My recommendation is to analyze the crash dump to determine precisely WHY the resource wait occurred. This may require looking a bit beyond the actual resource wait to find out the underlying cause that created the resource wait in the first place. This can take some effort, but it is well worth it. Increasing various parameters may ameliorate the problem temporarily, but it is unlikely to result in a permanent resolution. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:59:23 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Autogen params report... Message-ID: <%EjXk.4463$U5.33683@newsb.telia.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> Hi. >> Today we had som problem with a number >> of processes going into RWMBX state. > >> I've tried with ana/sys, sda>set proc/id=xxx and >> sda> sh proc/chan to find the MB devices, >> but none of the RWMBX processes has any >> channels to any MBA device. > > This is strange. Damn, forgot to "press enter" to get all pages in SDA... The mailboxes *are* there... > This can take some effort, but it is well worth it. Increasing various > parameters may ameliorate the problem temporarily, but it is unlikely > to result in a permanent resolution. Yes, further analyses of the systems make me belive now that some process (that should read from some MBX) doesn't work as expected. I will not change any sys-params right now. Tomorrow morning I'm getting help from someone knowing this system a little better. I've also found a tool MBOX on the freeware disks that I'll try to try to "peek" into the mailboxes... Thanks Jan-Erik. > > A mailbox is created with a certain buffer space. You can write to the > mailbox until that buffer space is full, after which, subsequent writes > will put your process in RWMBX state. > > When a process reads from a mailbox, it frees space in the buffer, > allowing more writes to complete. So normally, you have a process that > reads data from a mailbox as soon as the other process has written to > it, so there is no RWMBX involved. But if the reading process "jams" and > stops reading from the maibox, then you can quickly get into RWMBX > status for processes writing to it. > > > Is it possible that ANA/SYS would not show channels to a mailbox that is > causing the RWMBX state ? > > What if you do SHOW DEV MBA/FULL and look for the process ID of your > RWMBX process ? > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:04:33 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Autogen params report... Message-ID: <29edndZPR8PpVbDUnZ2dnUVZ_sbinZ2d@giganews.com> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Hi. > Today we had som problem with a number > of processes going into RWMBX state. > > This has something with mailbox devices > to do, as far as I understand. > > I've tried with ana/sys, sda>set proc/id=xxx and > sda> sh proc/chan to find the MB devices, > but none of the RWMBX processes has any > channels to any MBA device. > That's why they are in RWMBX! They want to read or write a mailbox and cannot do so. Presumably, some other process is reading or writing the mailbox or the mailbox is full. You cannot write to a mailbox that's full. Reading an empty mailbox will, I believe, return an end-of-file condition. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:16:24 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Autogen params report... Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: >> Hi. >> Today we had som problem with a number >> of processes going into RWMBX state. >> >> This has something with mailbox devices >> to do, as far as I understand. >> >> I've tried with ana/sys, sda>set proc/id=xxx and >> sda> sh proc/chan to find the MB devices, >> but none of the RWMBX processes has any >> channels to any MBA device. >> > That's why they are in RWMBX! They want to read or write a mailbox and > cannot do so. Presumably, some other process is reading or writing the > mailbox or the mailbox is full. > > You cannot write to a mailbox that's full. Reading an empty mailbox > will, I believe, return an end-of-file condition. > > OK. Got the MBOX freeware tool running. And it showed one MBAxx that is full : $ mbox mba98 Device: MBA98: (TTC$RECMBX_014/LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) Channels: 6, Operations: 392, Creator: 00000000 (Nonexistent) Total size: 1056, Remaining: 0, Message size: 256, Msgs: 24 ------------ All other MBA's had the same value as "Total" and "Remaining". Now I've "just" have to find out what process is supposed to read from that mailbox... Nice tool b.t.w, it also dumps the content (in HEX) of all 24 Mgs in the mailbox... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:51:38 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Banana Republic (was Re: OpenVMS Book Wins award) Message-ID: Hi Mark, (Once again, sorry for the delay) > Cross-domain access is one of the holy grails of distributed > applications There is also a strong argument for server-side aggregation, or portal functionality. (and good 'ol same-origin policy) > (at least those that can be mashed together from existing > webby technologies) Granted. > and are always fraught with security related issues. To say the least. The JSON script-injection option I find particularly scary! (Although I cannot see why, at least for Sockets, some/many people still pursue HTTP Access Control at the expense of policy files.) > Of course there probably also is an element of 'HTML people' tending to > have only a hammer in their toolbox (no real slight intended). I think you're right. > To better convey that this example has some level of sophistication here > is a (short-lived) peek at the HMI > > http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd_tmp/mondesi_081116a.png Looks good! (Although I think I recall some of JFP's Stills looking sexier; and with stock standard Ajax?) > > Is this > > thread/process serving *all* clients or is there a 1:1 relationship? > > In all general purpose Web serving there is such a relationship. This > is definitely the case in the above application which is written as a > CGI script. All VMS Web servers would activate an instance for each > client (in fact for a CGI script, all servers period). So even when you're doing traditional request/response processing, you still get one instance per client? It's worse than I thought! But then I also thought that "Fast"-CGI (or some such beast) was meant to overcome this absolute bollocks? Although, limited in its application to long-polling I imagine. Not to worry, an article has just appeared over at CometDaily that says there's nothing wrong with 1000 threads for 1000 users! Doesn't say anything about attaching to the database 1000 times, duplicating memory and everything else 1000x, paging in/out, but then that's the Comet people for ya. > Of course in > many Web environments there would be nothing preventing the design and > implementation of something (like an Apache module) which maintained a > single, internal 'application' that serviced multiple, concurrent clients. OK, something like a single-threaded Apache (or Tomcat?) module that took standard Ajax/http requests, kept the connections open, sampled GETRMI data, and streamed it back to the client(s)? Perhaps you have one you prepared earlier? But surely one process or thread is a bottleneck and you'd need an application-configurable pool of Execution Server processes/threads to allocate the work to, and that pool could grow/shrink (within parameters set by the System Manager) to meet workload requirements? Then you might also want to know the VMS Username of the client you're performing work for so you can perform auditing and security checking? (It's a shame Ian Mugabe vetoed Rdb's introduction of SQL> Set Session Authorization Persona :ws_integer; But then Rdb doesn't work with threads so you're probably stuffed anyway.) This is all sounding strangely familiar for some reason. . .oh I've got it - "You need Tier3!" As in :- http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/demo_client_flex.html Username: TIER3_DEMO Password: QUEUE No bollocks HTTP, SOAP, XML (unless you really want), Java, Garbage Collector, RMI, Threads, WSIT, Axis2, Apache, Tomcat, WASD, OSU, CGI, Perl, PHP, Pyhthon! Just the VMS 3GLs you know and love, Oracle (Rdb or Orrible), and RMS on the back-end. (The world's your oyster on the front-end: - HTML, Javascript, Java, Flex, Flash, Silverlight, VMS) > > Is the thread/process unavailable for servicing > > other requests while it's streaming its long-poll (or words to that effect > > :-) > > Yes. Sounds optimal :-) > An interesting . I agree; so that's all two of us then :-( > and opportune thread, How so? Anyway, for anyone else out there who may be reading, let me reiterate an alternative architecture for asynchronous client event notification; it's called "UDP"! (Plus or minus Broadcasting and Multicasting functionality depending on the network intra/internet etc) A single client socket can receive messages from any number of server processes who in turn could be sending message events to any number of clients. Use this in combo with a middleware backbone based on a reliable transport such as TCP/IP and all of your application architecture needs will have been met! See below for a PUSH technology example (in case you missed a much earlier post to COV) Cheers Richard Maher ==================================== If you'd like to see an example of a bog-standard VMS server that sends UDP messages to Web-client subscribers, then please follow these instructions: - 1) Click on the following link and read the instructions: http://manson.vistech.net/~tier3/tier3pager.html 2) Telnet to manson.vistech.net. (If you don't already have an account on the Deathrow cluster then please use Username: DEMO Password: USER) and then: $set term/width=132 $run sys$users:[users.tier3.web]demo_udp_msg 3) Enter the IP address of your client node. Your "stock-monitor" from step 1 should now spring into life with ransom stock-prices generated at 2sec intervals. (NATed clients will find this bit problematic :-) 4) Enter any adhoc messages that you wish to appear in the seperate Java Frame on the client. OPCOM messages to web-subscribers? CHAT conferences? Stock-Watching? Alarm Monitoring? - I mean what's it all about? Cheers Richard Maher PS. The code for Tier3Pager.java aqnd DEMO_UDP_MSG.COB are below, but all can be found at SYS$USERS:[USERS.TIER3.WEB] Tier3Pager.java =========== /** * Copyight Tier3 Software. All rights reserved. * * Author: Richard Maher * **/ import java.applet.Applet; import java.awt.*; import java.net.*; import java.io.IOException; import netscape.javascript.JSObject; import netscape.javascript.JSException; public class Tier3Pager extends Applet { private String hostName; private JSObject browser; private static MessageThread socketThread; private static Tier3Talk chat; public class MessageThread extends Thread { private DatagramSocket socket; private DatagramPacket packet; private String threadData; public MessageThread(String name, String txt) throws Exception { super(name); byte[] buffer; threadData = txt; String port = getParameter("PORT"); String maxBuf = getParameter("MAXBUF"); try { if (port == null) socket = new DatagramSocket(); else socket = new DatagramSocket(Integer.parseInt(port)); if (maxBuf == null) buffer = new byte[512]; else buffer = new byte[Integer.parseInt(maxBuf)]; packet = new DatagramPacket(buffer, buffer.length); } catch (Exception e) { e.printStackTrace(); System.out.println("Unable to create UDP Socket"); throw new Exception("Message thread could not be created"); } setDaemon(true); start(); } public void shutdown() { socket.close(); } public int getLocalPort() { return socket.getLocalPort(); } public void run() { System.out.println("Started Message thread. ThreadData = " + threadData); String args[] = {"Started Message Thread " + threadData}; browser.call("alert", args); boolean stopThread = false; readLoop: while (!stopThread) { try { socket.receive(packet); String received = new String(packet.getData(), 0, packet.getLength()); processMessage(received); } catch (SocketException e) { System.out.println("Shutting up shop"); stopThread = true; continue readLoop; } catch (IOException e) { e.printStackTrace(); System.out.println("Unable to retrieve UDP message"); } } System.out.println("Thread run() unit terminating"); } public void processMessage(String msgText) { int msgType = Integer.parseInt(msgText.substring(0,2)); switch (msgType){ case 1: chat.append(msgText.substring(2)); break; case 2: String args[] = {msgText.substring(2)}; try {browser.call("priceUpdate", args);} catch (JSException e) { System.out.println("Error when calling JS priceUpdate()"); } break; default: System.out.println("Unknown rec type "+msgText); } } } public void init() { System.out.println("Initializing. . ."); hostName = getCodeBase().getHost(); chat = new Tier3Talk("Tier3 Messages"); requestFocus(); browser = JSObject.getWindow(this); if (socketThread == null) { try { socketThread = new MessageThread("MsgDaemon", "SomeData"); } catch (Exception e) { e.printStackTrace(); System.out.println("Could not init Tier3Pager"); } } } public void alert(String alertText) { String args[] = {alertText}; browser.call("alert", args); } public void destroy() { if (chat != null) chat.dispose(); boolean stillDying; if (socketThread != null){ socketThread.shutdown(); do { stillDying = false; System.out.println("Joining MessageThread"); try {socketThread.join();} catch (InterruptedException e){ System.out.println("Interrupted Join"); stillDying = true; } } while (stillDying); socketThread = null; } System.out.println("Tier3Pager Applet Rundown complete"); super.destroy(); } } DEMO_UDP_MSG.COB ==================== **************************************************************************** ******** * * * COPYRIGHT (c) BY TIER3 SOFTWARE LTD. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. * * * * THIS SOFTWARE IS FURNISHED UNDER A LICENSE AND MAY BE USED AND COPIED ONLY * * IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SUCH LICENSE AND WITH THE * * THE INCLUSION OF THE ABOVE COPYRIGHT NOTICE. THIS SOFTWARE OR ANY OTHER * * COPIES THEREOF MAY NOT BE PROVIDED OR OTHERWISE MADE AVAILABLE TO ANY * * OTHER PERSON. NO TITLE TO AND OWNERSHIP OF THE SOFTWARE IS HEREBY * * TRANSFERRED. * * * * THE INFORMATION IN THIS SOFTWARE IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE AND * * SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS A COMMITMENT BY TIER3 SOFTWARE LTD. * * * **************************************************************************** ******** *+ * Facilility: DEMO_UDP_MSG * * Abstract: Send a UDP message to a Java Applet Web client * * Build example: * $COBOL/LIST DEMO_UDP_MSG * $MACRO/LIST DEMO_TCP_IP_DEF * $LINK DEMO_UDP_MSG, DEMO_TCP_IP_DEF * $RUN DEMO_UDP_MSG *- identification division. program-id. demo_udp_msg. data division. working-storage section. 01 stock_ticker pic s9(9) comp value external stock_ticker. 01 acp_gethostbyname pic s9(9) comp value external acp_gethostbyname. 01 io$_setmode pic s9(9) comp value external io$_setmode. 01 io$_writevblk pic s9(9) comp value external io$_writevblk. 01 io$_acpcontrol pic s9(9) comp value external io$_acpcontrol. 01 ss$_bufferovf pic s9(9) comp value external ss$_bufferovf. 01 ss$_endoffile pic s9(9) comp value external ss$_endoffile. 01 ss$_abort pic s9(9) comp value external ss$_abort. 01 ss$_normal pic s9(9) comp value external ss$_normal. 01 sys_status pic s9(9) comp. * 01 iosb. 03 cond_val pic s9(4) comp. 03 byte_count pic s9(4) comp. 03 pic s9(9) comp. * 01 create_socket. 03 pic s9(4) comp value external ucx$c_udp. 03 pic s9(4) comp value external inet_protyp$c_dgram. * 01 local_sock_desc. 03 pic s9(9) comp value 16. 03 pointer value reference local_addr. 01 local_addr. 03 pic s9(4) comp value external ucx$c_af_inet. 03 local_port_number. 05 low_byte pic x value low-values. 05 high_byte pic x value low-values. 03 pic s9(9) comp value external ucx$c_inaddr_any. 03 pic x(8). * 01 ast_area. 03 net_chan pic s9(4) comp. 03 stock_delta_secs pic s9(11)v9(7) comp value -2. 03 seed pic 9(9) comp. 03 ast_iosb. 05 ast_cond pic s9(4) comp. 05 pic x(6). 03 rem_sock_desc. 05 pic s9(9) comp value 16. 05 pointer value reference rem_addr. *+ * Use port number 1234 for example's sake *- 01 rem_addr. 03 pic s9(4) comp value external ucx$c_af_inet. 03 rem_port_number. 05 low_byte pic x value x"04". 05 high_byte pic x value x"D2". 03 rem_node_addr pic x(4). 03 pic x(8). * 01 in_addr_name pic x(60). 01 in_addr_name_len pic 9(4) comp. 01 out_len pic 9(4) comp. * 01 message_buffer. 03 message_type pic x(2) value "01". 03 message_text pic x(30). * 01 user_exit pic x value "N". 01 end_key pic x(4). 01 in_time pic 9(8). * procedure division. kick_off section. 00. accept in_time from time. move in_time to seed. display "Enter Client's IP address or name: " erase screen no advancing. accept in_addr_name protected reversed at end go to fini. if in_addr_name = spaces go to fini. perform get_udp_socket. if sys_status not = ss$_normal go to fini. move "Stock Ticker is now on-line" to message_text. perform send_message. call "sys$dclast" using by value stock_ticker by reference ast_area by value 0 giving sys_status. if sys_status not = ss$_normal go to fini. perform get_user_message until user_exit = "Y" or sys_status not = ss$_normal. if sys_status not = ss$_normal go to fini. perform socket_close. * fini. call "sys$exit" using by value sys_status. * get_user_message section. 00. display "Enter message text (ctrl/z = exit): " no advancing. accept message_text reversed bold protected default is space at end move "Y" to user_exit go to fini. perform send_message. * fini. * send_message section. 00. *+ * Call my Applet. *- call "sys$qiow" using by value 0, net_chan, io$_writevblk by reference iosb by value 0, 0 by reference message_buffer by value 32 by reference rem_sock_desc by value 0, 0, 0 giving sys_status. if sys_status = ss$_normal move cond_val to sys_status. if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status. * get_udp_socket section. 00. call "sys$assign" using by descriptor "_BG:" by reference net_chan by value 0, 0, 0 giving sys_status. if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status. * call "str$trim" using by descriptor in_addr_name, in_addr_name by reference in_addr_name_len giving sys_status. if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status. call "sys$qiow" using by value 0, net_chan, io$_acpcontrol by reference iosb by value 0, 0 by descriptor acp_gethostbyname, in_addr_name(1:in_addr_name_len) by reference out_len by descriptor rem_node_addr by value 0, 0 giving sys_status. if sys_status = ss$_normal move cond_val to sys_status. * evaluate sys_status when ss$_endoffile display "Unknown node" when other continue end-evaluate. if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status. call "sys$qiow" using by value 0, net_chan, io$_setmode by reference iosb by value 0, 0 by reference create_socket, omitted, local_sock_desc by value 0, 0, 0 giving sys_status. if sys_status = ss$_normal move cond_val to sys_status. if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status. * socket_close section. 00. call "sys$dassgn" using by value net_chan giving sys_status. * end program demo_udp_msg. identification division. program-id. stock_ticker. data division. working-storage section. 01 stock_ast pic s9(9) comp value external stock_ast. 01 io$_writevblk pic s9(9) comp value external io$_writevblk. 01 ss$_normal pic s9(9) comp value external ss$_normal. 01 sys_status pic s9(9) comp. * 01 random_num comp-1. 01 stock_message. 03 pic x(2) value "02". 03 stock_price pic zz9.99. * linkage section. * 01 ast_area. 03 net_chan pic s9(4) comp. 03 stock_delta_secs pic s9(11)v9(7) comp. 03 seed pic 9(9) comp. 03 ast_iosb. 05 ast_cond pic s9(4) comp. 05 pic x(6). 03 rem_sock_desc. 05 pic s9(9) comp. 05 pointer. * procedure division using ast_area. 00. call "mth$random" using seed giving random_num. multiply random_num by 100 giving stock_price. call "sys$qio" using by value 0, net_chan, io$_writevblk by reference ast_iosb by value stock_ast by reference ast_area, stock_message by value 8 by reference rem_sock_desc by value 0, 0, 0 giving sys_status. if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status. exit program. * end program stock_ticker. identification division. program-id. stock_ast. data division. working-storage section. 01 stock_ticker pic s9(9) comp value external stock_ticker. 01 ss$_normal pic s9(9) comp value external ss$_normal. 01 sys_status pic s9(9) comp. * linkage section. 01 ast_area. 03 net_chan pic s9(4) comp. 03 stock_delta_secs pic s9(11)v9(7) comp. 03 seed pic 9(9) comp. 03 ast_iosb. 05 ast_cond pic s9(4) comp. 05 ast_bytes pic s9(4) comp. 05 unix_cond pic s9(9) comp. 03 rem_sock_desc. 05 pic s9(9) comp. 05 pointer. *+ procedure division using ast_area. 00. if ast_cond not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status. call "sys$setimr" using by value 0 by reference stock_delta_secs by value stock_ticker by reference ast_area by value 0 giving sys_status. if sys_status not = ss$_normal call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status. exit program. * end program stock_ast. "Mark Daniel" wrote in message news:012fb96c$0$20664$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > Richard Maher wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > > > Thanks for the reply. (Sorry for the delay) > > > >> I noted the post on Adobe policy files. > > > > I think the HTML5 people ignore policy-files at their peril. (Not that they > > seem to care as their world is all HTTP-shaped with no end of lovely > > "headers") > > Cross-domain access is one of the holy grails of distributed > applications (at least those that can be mashed together from existing > webby technologies) and are always fraught with security related issues. > > Of course there probably also is an element of 'HTML people' tending to > have only a hammer in their toolbox (no real slight intended). > > >> [Orbited] Without some sort of access > >> control it functions as an open relay - carte blanche. > > > > I haven't used it but I believe they have some sort of white-list. > > That is coarse-grained access control. > > Adobe policy files are a structured, finer-grained white-list. > > >> Both are broad, evolving concepts and implementations. > > > > Unlike TCP/IP and/or UDP Sockets with Java that have been around since year > > dot. (Ok, sandboxed or signed up until now) > > > >> FYIW; I have an (as-yet) unpublished Web application displaying > >> elementary graphs of $GETRMI (monitor) data. It uses a Comet-style > >>