INFO-VAX Sun, 30 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 639 Contents: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: Black and White Printing Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Torrent Client for VMS Re: Torrent Client for VMS VMS SIG Tape released (last from me) Re: VMS, HP and the recession ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:51:38 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: On Nov 28, 3:25=A0pm, Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > On Nov 28, 3:17=A0pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- = wrote: > > > Question: since the error is : > HEADERFULL is a very explicit error there is no negotiaing with that. Actually... I stand corrected. While the HELP suggests it is only used for INDEXF.SYS, further replies in this string proved that creation / extention of any file which may not have more than 1 header can report this. So this was a case of too much free space fragmentation. Defrag the disk, or temporarely goble-up the small extends in a temp file perhaps by extending a file repeatedly a cluster at a time. > Use DFU REPORT That recommendation holds. > but you may well need to re-init a disk with /MAX=3D'more' and $BACKUP/ N= OINIT/IMAGE ... That recommendation sort of holds. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:18:21 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: <55f55cd1-81ac-4be4-8bb2-6d9b68e30b0d@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On Nov 29, 10:44=A0am, JF Mezei wrote: > AEF wrote: > >> I've always tried to keep my files contiguous. =A0Some users, or some > >> processes, tend =A0to create two block files and extend them two block= s at > >> a time. =A0In my working days, I tried very hard to stomp on such when > >> found! =A0 > > > Yikes! Of the above, I only wrote the "Yikes!" line. > > For log files, or other more or less sporadic non permanent files, > doesn't it make sense to let them grow little by little and use up > hidden areas of 1 or 2 free blocks (clusters would be the more accurate > term) on the disk ? > > If some huge log file ends up being highly fragmented but uses disk > areas that wouldn't be usable by other files that need better > performance (contiguous), then you are using up disk real estate that is > much less valuable, leaving the larger contiguous areas available for > files that do need the better performance. > > Same thing for emails. If your average email is 3 blocks or less and > your cluster size is 3 blocks, then letting new emails use isolated > small areas of free blocks is a good idea instead of reducing the size > of contiguous areas. > > The one caveat in this is if you have 2 free blocks between 2 large > contiguous areas, and you delete the files occupying those 2 contiguous > areas, that small file in the middle will prevent those two large > contiguous areas from being combined into one very large area. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:52:40 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: On Nov 29, 11:37 am, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > > > >> OK, how about the same for SYSDUMP.DMP. > > > Dump of file SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SYSDUMP.DMP;4... > > ... > ...> Map area > > Retrieval pointers > > Count: 64629 LBN: 1256157 > > ... > ... [about 50 lines snipped...] > ... > > > Count: 126 LBN: 4138002 > > Count: 4896 LBN: 4138254 > > Count: 9 LBN: 4143240 > > Right then, there is your fragmented file! > As someone else said, the dump file can't use multiple > headers. Someway you have to make new space for this > file. It *might* be that it was fragmented earier > and there might be space *now* for a dump file with fewer > fragments (without any other changes to the current disk). > Clear up as much space as possible and just try to > re-create the DMP file from scratch. Try this: As suggested above, clear some space if you can. Then make a new SYSDUMP.DMP file using SYSGEN or SYS$UPDATE:SWAPFILES.COM by specifying a size slightly smaller than your existing one. Then use SYSGEN or SWAPFILES.COM again to extend it. Or, since you're rebooting anyway, reboot with the new, smaller dump file; delete the old one with PURGE; then extend the new one either manually with SYSGEN or SWAPFILES.COM, or let AUTOGEN have another go at it; and reboot. This way, you're starting with a new SYSDUMP.DMP file that has (hopefully) much fewer extents and so expanding it is more likely to work. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:09:17 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: In article , Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: > On Nov 28, 3:25 pm, Hein RMS van den Heuvel > wrote: > > On Nov 28, 3:17 pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > wrote: > > > > > Question: since the error is > : > > HEADERFULL is a very explicit error there is no negotiaing with that. > > Actually... I stand corrected. > While the HELP suggests it is only used for INDEXF.SYS, > further replies in this string proved that creation / extention of any > file > which may not have more than 1 header can report this. Bug in HELP. :-( I deleted a lot of small log files (created by the OS). I've never created a dump file by hand before. I did ANA/RMS/FDL on the existing one, edited the FDL to change the allocation value to that recommended by AUTOGEN, then did CREATE/FDL. It worked. Is that what it means for the file "to be created manually"? Can I delete the lower version after a reboot? In retrospect, I should have tried the manual creation before cleaning up the disk and tried AUTOGEN again before the manual creation. The disk isn't that badly fragmented; I've seen worse; but maybe badly enough to cause problems. My other disks look much better (relatively large chunks of with 100% free). I have the Disk File Optimizer installed but haven't used it in a long time. IIRC, one needs to "anchor" some special files first before using it, at least on a system disk (and perhaps on a disk which contains files normally found on a system disk, like SYSUAF). This sounds error-prone, which is why I am hesitant about using it. I guess an image backup is the way to go. If the manually created file is OK, I suppose I don't need to do the image backup right away, whereas if not, then probably I should. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:22:32 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: <87675519-7f90-497d-829b-51b7f6177d6c@j39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Nov 29, 4:09=A0pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > I deleted a lot of small log files (created by the OS). =A0 So that could potentially create fragmented free space, and if you did it recently, then those fragments would first to be re-used from the free space cache. You could try flush that (dism+mount, or allocate too much from an other node), or like I said capture it temporarely in a file. You could even take an non-too important, large, mosty coniguous file. Copy that, eating up little fragments, delete the original create large chunks free. >=A0I did ANA/RMS/FDL on the existing > one, edited the FDL to change the allocation value to that recommended > by AUTOGEN, then did CREATE/FDL. =A0 You can add the CONIGUOUS YES or CBT in the FDL . > It worked. =A0 It created a file. But did that file have a single header !? DUMP/HEAD/BLOCK=3DCOUNT=3D0 will quickly tell you. Look for (pipe, search) ... 1 line with: Extension file identification: (0,0,0) Hein ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:25:37 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: <08112915253792_2020048A@antinode.info> From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) > I deleted a lot of small log files (created by the OS). I've never > created a dump file by hand before. I did ANA/RMS/FDL on the existing > one, edited the FDL to change the allocation value to that recommended > by AUTOGEN, then did CREATE/FDL. It worked. Is that what it means for > the file "to be created manually"? Yikes. I'd interpret "manual" to mean "not using AUTOGEN", not carving out the bits individually with stone tools. I just happen to have a VAX up... WIMP $ sysgen help create CREATE Creates a file that can be used as a paging, swapping, or dump file. Normally, this command is used indirectly by executing the command procedure SYS$UPDATE:SWAPFILES. Format: CREATE file-spec /SIZE=block-count Additional information available: Qualifiers /CONTIGUOUS /SIZE > Can I delete the lower version after > a reboot? Should be ok. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:04:01 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: In article <87675519-7f90-497d-829b-51b7f6177d6c@j39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: > But did that file have a single header !? > DUMP/HEAD/BLOCK=COUNT=0 will quickly tell you. > Look for (pipe, search) ... 1 line with: Extension file > identification: (0,0,0) Extension file identification: (16844,79,0) Extension file identification: (16862,325,0) Extension file identification: (0,0,0) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:06:07 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: In article <08112915253792_2020048A@antinode.info>, sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) writes: > From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) > > > I deleted a lot of small log files (created by the OS). I've never > > created a dump file by hand before. I did ANA/RMS/FDL on the existing > > one, edited the FDL to change the allocation value to that recommended > > by AUTOGEN, then did CREATE/FDL. It worked. Is that what it means for > > the file "to be created manually"? > > Yikes. I'd interpret "manual" to mean "not using AUTOGEN", not > carving out the bits individually with stone tools. I just happen to > have a VAX up... I didn't think of CREATE/FDL as being stone tools. It does say "manually". AUTOGEN is apparently not manual, but supposedly SYSGEN and SYS$UPDATE:SWAPFILES are. :-| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:29:09 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: <67f30538-03de-4ca7-ac6a-5fb28e23777e@w34g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On Nov 29, 5:04=A0pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article > <87675519-7f90-497d-829b-51b7f6177...@j39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, > Hein RMS van den Heuvel writes: > > > But did that file have a single header !? > > DUMP/HEAD/BLOCK=3DCOUNT=3D0 will quickly tell you. > > Look for (pipe, search) ... 1 line with: Extension file > > identification: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(0,0,0) > > =A0 =A0 Extension file identification: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(16844,79,0) > =A0 =A0 Extension file identification: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(16862,325,0) > =A0 =A0 Extension file identification: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(0,0,0) So that file has 1 primary header, and 2 entention header. Not good enough for a dump file. Space permitting, do NOT delete it, as it is holding on to 120+ fragments. Now try the $CREATE again, with contiguous-best-try or contiguous See if you have better luck. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 17:27:15 -0800 (PST) From: dooleys@snowy.net.au Subject: Re: Black and White Printing Message-ID: <43a7976c-7a74-458c-b21f-cfe969bd521e@y1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> On Nov 30, 2:46=A0am, JF Mezei wrote: > dool...@snowy.net.au wrote: > > You could use ghostscript to convert the postscript file. > > If gs thinks its printer is b&w only, then it will convert the > > ps file so that there is no colour in the output file. > > Are you sure about that ? well I havn't actually tested it :) > > It is my understanding that printers are the engines who internally > convert a colour into a greyscale value. So you send a postscript that > has colour information and the printer will do the job of converting to > greyscale. true, if the printer is set to b&w and the ps contains colour, but in this case it isn't possible to permanently set the printer to b&w, > Some applications are able to convert to greyscale, but generally, they > don't seem too concerned about sending colour postscript to a b/W printer= . I think that ghostscript using the pswrite device, LanguageLevel=3D1, and an output file should result in a ps file that will only print b&w, even on a colour printer Phil ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 18:55:32 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6pdhh4F7g80lU1@mid.individual.net> In article <493175dd$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Arne Vajhøj writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-rfsGVdt9vN3v@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, >> "Bob Eager" writes: >>> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:36:09 UTC, Arne Vajhj wrote: >>> >>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>> In article , >>>>> Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: >>>>>> Arne Vajhj wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> C Kermit is from around 1989-1990. I believe that it >>>>>>> took a few years until C-Kermit was stable enough to replace >>>>>>> the old VMS Kermit. >>>>>> Unix C kermit is older than that. For other than unix, >>>>>> that might be about right. >>>>>> >>>>> The BLISS version worked just fine as far as I was concerned. >>>> The Bliss version was rock solid. >>>> >>>> But if I remember correctly, then the C version had >>>> better performance (due to ability to use larger >>>> buffers or something like that). >>> And sliding windows....allowing overlap between send and acknowledge. >> >> Too bad there was no one to just add those features to the Bliss >> version. Hmmmm... Might be fun to try. Especially for someone >> like me who's only experience with Bliss is knowing it's reputation. > > FDC probably wanted to standardize on C Kermit on all/many platforms > (with a few OS specific modules) to lower the burden of > maintenance. Having provided platforms for compiling and maintenance of some Kermit versions as well as having maintained a few myself, I kknow Frank well enough that I would bet he would put up a newer version if someone went to the trouble of making one. I have turned in binaries for versions of Kermit for machines not able to run C-Kermit, like the PDP-11. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 18:58:46 GMT From: "Bob Eager" Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-Ygioq8GMIEPI@rikki.tavi.co.uk> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:42:31 UTC, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-rfsGVdt9vN3v@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, > "Bob Eager" writes: > > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:36:09 UTC, Arne Vajhj wrote: > > > >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> > In article , > >> > Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: > >> >> Arne Vajhj wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> C Kermit is from around 1989-1990. I believe that it > >> >>> took a few years until C-Kermit was stable enough to replace > >> >>> the old VMS Kermit. > >> >> Unix C kermit is older than that. For other than unix, > >> >> that might be about right. > >> >> > >> > > >> > The BLISS version worked just fine as far as I was concerned. > >> > >> The Bliss version was rock solid. > >> > >> But if I remember correctly, then the C version had > >> better performance (due to ability to use larger > >> buffers or something like that). > > > > And sliding windows....allowing overlap between send and acknowledge. > > Too bad there was no one to just add those features to the Bliss > version. Hmmmm... Might be fun to try. Especially for someone > like me who's only experience with Bliss is knowing it's reputation. The definitions are all in the Kermit protocol book. Probably still available used. -- Bob Eager Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 19:03:09 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6pdhvdF7g80lU2@mid.individual.net> In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>> As for Linux, which platform did you have in mind? >> >> I guess all of them use the same tool chain. GCC. >> >>> Don't the various Linux versions support their own assemblers? >> >> Yep. >> >> If you save the file as .s then gcc should assemble it. >> >> Arne > > Errr..... I thought we were talking about Macro-32 here. Has someone > ported Linux to the VAX? While it doesn't appear to have seen much (any?) activity in almost three years, the answer is yes. > Why would anyone want to run Linux on a VAX > when they could run VMS????? Rhetorical question, right? Running VMS means working with a whole different animal. A more reasonable question would be, "Why would anyone want to run Linux on a VAX when it's just a poor stepchild to Unix and there are several excelent versions of Unix availble?" :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 19:05:25 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6pdi3lF7g80lU3@mid.individual.net> In article <493182c2$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Arne Vajhøj writes: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >>>> As for Linux, which platform did you have in mind? >>> >>> I guess all of them use the same tool chain. GCC. >>> >>>> Don't the various Linux versions support their own assemblers? >>> >>> Yep. >>> >>> If you save the file as .s then gcc should assemble it. >> >> Errr..... I thought we were talking about Macro-32 here. Has someone >> ported Linux to the VAX? Why would anyone want to run Linux on a VAX >> when they could run VMS????? > > We were talking about whether Linux had its own assembler > (with the impact of porting Macro-32 to Linux not making > any sense). "Having an assembler" is not even close to "having Macro-32" which is considerably more than just an assembler for the VAX architecture. Unless you consider GCC to be just a real high-level Macro Assembler. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 19:31:36 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6pdjkoF7k727U1@mid.individual.net> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-Ygioq8GMIEPI@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, "Bob Eager" writes: > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:42:31 UTC, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) > wrote: > >> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-rfsGVdt9vN3v@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, >> "Bob Eager" writes: >> > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:36:09 UTC, Arne Vajhj wrote: >> > >> >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >> > In article , >> >> > Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: >> >> >> Arne Vajhj wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> C Kermit is from around 1989-1990. I believe that it >> >> >>> took a few years until C-Kermit was stable enough to replace >> >> >>> the old VMS Kermit. >> >> >> Unix C kermit is older than that. For other than unix, >> >> >> that might be about right. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > The BLISS version worked just fine as far as I was concerned. >> >> >> >> The Bliss version was rock solid. >> >> >> >> But if I remember correctly, then the C version had >> >> better performance (due to ability to use larger >> >> buffers or something like that). >> > >> > And sliding windows....allowing overlap between send and acknowledge. >> >> Too bad there was no one to just add those features to the Bliss >> version. Hmmmm... Might be fun to try. Especially for someone >> like me who's only experience with Bliss is knowing it's reputation. > > The definitions are all in the Kermit protocol book. Probably still > available used. I don't think knowledge of Kermit is the problem. Experience with Bliss is another matter entirely. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 19:37:47 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6pdk0bF7k727U2@mid.individual.net> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-hYI3HRceTyXx@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, "Bob Eager" writes: > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:44:44 UTC, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) > wrote: > >> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-vojyydTuUdQK@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, >> "Bob Eager" writes: >> > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:00:38 UTC, Johnny Billquist >> > wrote: >> > >> >> I also think that parts of the system in the AMIGA was written in BCPL. >> > >> > Yup...it was based on the TRIPOS operating system, written by some >> > undergraduates at the University of Cambridge (UK). I have a copy of >> > TRIPOS somewhere...the source code, anyway. I ran it on a PDP-11 for a >> > while, after patching the kernel image so it would work on an 11/34! >> >> Any chance of getting the PDP-11 stuff? Some of us still enjoy playing >> with ours and I never heard anyone mention this OS. > > OK... > > www.tavi.co.uk/TRIPOS.ZIP > > Note the upper case filename! Thanks, I grabed what was there. But I guess I was confused. I was hoping to get the actual OS but all I see lloking at it is dicments explaining what it is. Is the OS still available anywhere or is this another of those parts of our history that has been lost? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 17:02:14 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <4931bbe6$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Ah yes, Ada. I remember hearing about all the bad things that C does > that Ada doesn't, which is what made Ada so superior. Until you look > at the last chapter of the Ada textbook they used here that basicly > showed how to get around all that string typecasting stiff. :-) And > all kinds of other dirty little tricks that someone decided really were > necesary writing programs in the real world. There is a big difference between allowing the dirty stuff by special means and allowing it generally. C++ asm and C# unsafe is not bad in my book, because they are clearly identifiable as dirty. > OK. But what about storing 6 ASCII characters packed into one REAL*4 > variable? :-) Not possible in general. There are 128^6 possible combinations of bits in 6 ASCII characters and 256^4 possible combinations of bits in a REAL*4. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 17:06:51 -0500 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <4931bcfa$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <493175dd$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, > Arne Vajhøj writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-rfsGVdt9vN3v@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, >>> "Bob Eager" writes: >>>> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:36:09 UTC, Arne Vajhj wrote: >>>> >>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>>> In article , >>>>>> Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: >>>>>>> Arne Vajhj wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> C Kermit is from around 1989-1990. I believe that it >>>>>>>> took a few years until C-Kermit was stable enough to replace >>>>>>>> the old VMS Kermit. >>>>>>> Unix C kermit is older than that. For other than unix, >>>>>>> that might be about right. >>>>>>> >>>>>> The BLISS version worked just fine as far as I was concerned. >>>>> The Bliss version was rock solid. >>>>> >>>>> But if I remember correctly, then the C version had >>>>> better performance (due to ability to use larger >>>>> buffers or something like that). >>>> And sliding windows....allowing overlap between send and acknowledge. >>> Too bad there was no one to just add those features to the Bliss >>> version. Hmmmm... Might be fun to try. Especially for someone >>> like me who's only experience with Bliss is knowing it's reputation. >> FDC probably wanted to standardize on C Kermit on all/many platforms >> (with a few OS specific modules) to lower the burden of >> maintenance. > > Having provided platforms for compiling and maintenance of some Kermit > versions as well as having maintained a few myself, I kknow Frank well > enough that I would bet he would put up a newer version if someone went > to the trouble of making one. I have turned in binaries for versions > of Kermit for machines not able to run C-Kermit, like the PDP-11. I have no doubt he would. But if none volunteered then he would prioritize his time. And if I remember correctlt then he a few times posted to c.o.v/I-V asking for volunteers for Kermit work without people rushing in like for a Black Friday sale. Arne ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 22:38:37 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6pdujdF7jt18U1@mid.individual.net> In article <4931bbe6$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, Arne Vajhøj writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> Ah yes, Ada. I remember hearing about all the bad things that C does >> that Ada doesn't, which is what made Ada so superior. Until you look >> at the last chapter of the Ada textbook they used here that basicly >> showed how to get around all that string typecasting stiff. :-) And >> all kinds of other dirty little tricks that someone decided really were >> necesary writing programs in the real world. > > There is a big difference between allowing the dirty stuff by > special means and allowing it generally. > > C++ asm and C# unsafe is not bad in my book, because they > are clearly identifiable as dirty. My point was that the Ada advocates (and we used to have a real big one here) were constantly talking about all the bad features of C and similar languages. But then, when it came time to get real, Ada had to include all those "bad" things in order for the language to do the things it was intended for like twiddle with real hardware. If there is a way to apply the term hypocrite Ada fits the bill. :-) > >> OK. But what about storing 6 ASCII characters packed into one REAL*4 >> variable? :-) > > Not possible in general. There are 128^6 possible combinations > of bits in 6 ASCII characters and 256^4 possible combinations of > bits in a REAL*4. Not possible? I really expected someone to recognize RAD50 (aka RADIX-50) when I posted this. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 22:41:13 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6pduo8F7jt18U2@mid.individual.net> In article <4931bcfa$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?windows-1252?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article <493175dd$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, >> Arne Vajhøj writes: >>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-rfsGVdt9vN3v@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, >>>> "Bob Eager" writes: >>>>> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:36:09 UTC, Arne Vajhj wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>>>> In article , >>>>>>> Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: >>>>>>>> Arne Vajhj wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> C Kermit is from around 1989-1990. I believe that it >>>>>>>>> took a few years until C-Kermit was stable enough to replace >>>>>>>>> the old VMS Kermit. >>>>>>>> Unix C kermit is older than that. For other than unix, >>>>>>>> that might be about right. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The BLISS version worked just fine as far as I was concerned. >>>>>> The Bliss version was rock solid. >>>>>> >>>>>> But if I remember correctly, then the C version had >>>>>> better performance (due to ability to use larger >>>>>> buffers or something like that). >>>>> And sliding windows....allowing overlap between send and acknowledge. >>>> Too bad there was no one to just add those features to the Bliss >>>> version. Hmmmm... Might be fun to try. Especially for someone >>>> like me who's only experience with Bliss is knowing it's reputation. >>> FDC probably wanted to standardize on C Kermit on all/many platforms >>> (with a few OS specific modules) to lower the burden of >>> maintenance. >> >> Having provided platforms for compiling and maintenance of some Kermit >> versions as well as having maintained a few myself, I kknow Frank well >> enough that I would bet he would put up a newer version if someone went >> to the trouble of making one. I have turned in binaries for versions >> of Kermit for machines not able to run C-Kermit, like the PDP-11. > > I have no doubt he would. > > But if none volunteered then he would prioritize his time. > > And if I remember correctlt then he a few times posted to c.o.v/I-V > asking for volunteers for Kermit work without people rushing > in like for a Black Friday sale. Maybe it's just because my Kermit usage goes all the way back to the beginning days but I have always offered whatever resources I had available. I like Kermit!! And I still find DOS based Kermit to be one of the best VT terminals I have ever used. Not to mention how many times I have used it to load bootstraps for devices I don't have the PROM for. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 22:44:25 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6pduu9F7jt18U3@mid.individual.net> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-tbM0bBBd7pZJ@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, "Bob Eager" writes: > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 19:37:47 UTC, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) > wrote: > >> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-hYI3HRceTyXx@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, >> "Bob Eager" writes: >> > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:44:44 UTC, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) >> > wrote: >> > >> >> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-vojyydTuUdQK@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, >> >> "Bob Eager" writes: >> >> > On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:00:38 UTC, Johnny Billquist >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> I also think that parts of the system in the AMIGA was written in BCPL. >> >> > >> >> > Yup...it was based on the TRIPOS operating system, written by some >> >> > undergraduates at the University of Cambridge (UK). I have a copy of >> >> > TRIPOS somewhere...the source code, anyway. I ran it on a PDP-11 for a >> >> > while, after patching the kernel image so it would work on an 11/34! >> >> >> >> Any chance of getting the PDP-11 stuff? Some of us still enjoy playing >> >> with ours and I never heard anyone mention this OS. >> > >> > OK... >> > >> > www.tavi.co.uk/TRIPOS.ZIP >> > >> > Note the upper case filename! >> >> Thanks, I grabed what was there. But I guess I was confused. I was >> hoping to get the actual OS but all I see lloking at it is dicments >> explaining what it is. Is the OS still available anywhere or is this >> another of those parts of our history that has been lost? > > I was in a rush...it was dinner time! There are two other ZIP files, > look as if they are literally the files off the original distribution > tape. There are a number of files, called (usefully) f1, f2, ... This > isn't as bad as it sounds, as one of the files in TAPE2 appears to be an > index. > > Each file is often a composite file (think '.TLB kind of thing) which is > easily decoded (probably even in DCL!). > > Disappointingly, I can't at first glance see a PDP-11 kernel...but I may > be wrong. > > Files: > > http://www.tavi.co.uk/TAPE1.ZIP > http://www.tavi.co.uk/TAPE2.ZIP Leftover turkey? :-) Thanks. I grabbed the rest. I will look at it in more detail this week. Maybe I will be trying to make a boot tape like I had to do with Ultrix-11 when the pieces first showed up. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:08:11 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <4931cb5a$0$90270$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <4931bbe6$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, > Arne Vajhøj writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> OK. But what about storing 6 ASCII characters packed into one REAL*4 >>> variable? :-) >> Not possible in general. There are 128^6 possible combinations >> of bits in 6 ASCII characters and 256^4 possible combinations of >> bits in a REAL*4. > > Not possible? I really expected someone to recognize RAD50 (aka RADIX-50) > when I posted this. :-) What does ASCII have to do with RADIX-50 ? Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:12:00 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <4931cc41$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <4931bbe6$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, > Arne Vajhøj writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> Ah yes, Ada. I remember hearing about all the bad things that C does >>> that Ada doesn't, which is what made Ada so superior. Until you look >>> at the last chapter of the Ada textbook they used here that basicly >>> showed how to get around all that string typecasting stiff. :-) And >>> all kinds of other dirty little tricks that someone decided really were >>> necesary writing programs in the real world. >> There is a big difference between allowing the dirty stuff by >> special means and allowing it generally. >> >> C++ asm and C# unsafe is not bad in my book, because they >> are clearly identifiable as dirty. > > My point was that the Ada advocates (and we used to have a real big > one here) were constantly talking about all the bad features of C and > similar languages. But then, when it came time to get real, Ada had > to include all those "bad" things in order for the language to do the > things it was intended for like twiddle with real hardware. If there > is a way to apply the term hypocrite Ada fits the bill. :-) As long as it is clearly identifiable as bing the dirty stuff, then I don't see a problem or any hypocracy. But without you explaining what Ada tricks you are talking about, then it is hard to tell. I have given two examples from C++ and C# of what I mean. My Ada skills are not good enough to guess what you are talking about. Probably I have only learned the nice Ada (and what I did learn looked very nice indeeed). Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:12:15 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <493175dd$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, > Arne Vajhøj writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-rfsGVdt9vN3v@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, >>> "Bob Eager" writes: >>>> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:36:09 UTC, Arne Vajhj wrote: >>>> >>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>>> In article , >>>>>> Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: >>>>>>> Arne Vajhj wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> C Kermit is from around 1989-1990. I believe that it >>>>>>>> took a few years until C-Kermit was stable enough to replace >>>>>>>> the old VMS Kermit. >>>>>>> Unix C kermit is older than that. For other than unix, >>>>>>> that might be about right. >>>>>>> >>>>>> The BLISS version worked just fine as far as I was concerned. >>>>> The Bliss version was rock solid. >>>>> >>>>> But if I remember correctly, then the C version had >>>>> better performance (due to ability to use larger >>>>> buffers or something like that). >>>> And sliding windows....allowing overlap between send and acknowledge. >>> Too bad there was no one to just add those features to the Bliss >>> version. Hmmmm... Might be fun to try. Especially for someone >>> like me who's only experience with Bliss is knowing it's reputation. >> FDC probably wanted to standardize on C Kermit on all/many platforms >> (with a few OS specific modules) to lower the burden of >> maintenance. > > Having provided platforms for compiling and maintenance of some Kermit > versions as well as having maintained a few myself, I kknow Frank well > enough that I would bet he would put up a newer version if someone went > to the trouble of making one. I have turned in binaries for versions > of Kermit for machines not able to run C-Kermit, like the PDP-11. > Frank has always, AFAIK, given credit where credit was due. I once wrote a page or two on using Kermit with VMS. Frank used part of it, with my permission, in one his books and gave me proper credit. This was back in the 1990s or, perhaps, the very late 1980s. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 23:17:48 GMT From: "Bob Eager" Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-RLpMYXHSS8q1@rikki.tavi.co.uk> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:38:37 UTC, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <4931bbe6$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, > Arne Vajhj writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >> Ah yes, Ada. I remember hearing about all the bad things that C does > >> that Ada doesn't, which is what made Ada so superior. Until you look > >> at the last chapter of the Ada textbook they used here that basicly > >> showed how to get around all that string typecasting stiff. :-) And > >> all kinds of other dirty little tricks that someone decided really were > >> necesary writing programs in the real world. > > > > There is a big difference between allowing the dirty stuff by > > special means and allowing it generally. > > > > C++ asm and C# unsafe is not bad in my book, because they > > are clearly identifiable as dirty. > > My point was that the Ada advocates (and we used to have a real big > one here) were constantly talking about all the bad features of C and > similar languages. But then, when it came time to get real, Ada had > to include all those "bad" things in order for the language to do the > things it was intended for like twiddle with real hardware. If there > is a way to apply the term hypocrite Ada fits the bill. :-) > > > > >> OK. But what about storing 6 ASCII characters packed into one REAL*4 > >> variable? :-) > > > > Not possible in general. There are 128^6 possible combinations > > of bits in 6 ASCII characters and 256^4 possible combinations of > > bits in a REAL*4. > > Not possible? I really expected someone to recognize RAD50 (aka RADIX-50) > when I posted this. :-) I recognised it...just didn't get round to saying anything. And anyway, some pedant would have pointed out that RAD50 only contains part of the ASCII set and thus isn't ASCII.... Oh, the joys of RAD50 conversion in PDP-11 assembler... -- Bob Eager Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org ------------------------------ Date: 29 Nov 2008 23:21:48 GMT From: "Bob Eager" Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-Nt8cCOVDqJLn@rikki.tavi.co.uk> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 23:12:15 UTC, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > In article <493175dd$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, > > Arne Vajhj writes: > >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >>> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-rfsGVdt9vN3v@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, > >>> "Bob Eager" writes: > >>>> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:36:09 UTC, Arne Vajhj wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >>>>>> In article , > >>>>>> Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: > >>>>>>> Arne Vajhj wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> C Kermit is from around 1989-1990. I believe that it > >>>>>>>> took a few years until C-Kermit was stable enough to replace > >>>>>>>> the old VMS Kermit. > >>>>>>> Unix C kermit is older than that. For other than unix, > >>>>>>> that might be about right. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> The BLISS version worked just fine as far as I was concerned. > >>>>> The Bliss version was rock solid. > >>>>> > >>>>> But if I remember correctly, then the C version had > >>>>> better performance (due to ability to use larger > >>>>> buffers or something like that). > >>>> And sliding windows....allowing overlap between send and acknowledge. > >>> Too bad there was no one to just add those features to the Bliss > >>> version. Hmmmm... Might be fun to try. Especially for someone > >>> like me who's only experience with Bliss is knowing it's reputation. > >> FDC probably wanted to standardize on C Kermit on all/many platforms > >> (with a few OS specific modules) to lower the burden of > >> maintenance. > > > > Having provided platforms for compiling and maintenance of some Kermit > > versions as well as having maintained a few myself, I kknow Frank well > > enough that I would bet he would put up a newer version if someone went > > to the trouble of making one. I have turned in binaries for versions > > of Kermit for machines not able to run C-Kermit, like the PDP-11. > > > > Frank has always, AFAIK, given credit where credit was due. I once > wrote a page or two on using Kermit with VMS. Frank used part of it, > with my permission, in one his books and gave me proper credit. This > was back in the 1990s or, perhaps, the very late 1980s. Yup, I was credited for my little contributiion for DOS Kermit, which I bet someone here has used. It was a resident program to make NUM LOCK usable as a GOLD key... -- Bob Eager Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 20:19:52 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> Ah yes, Ada. I remember hearing about all the bad things that C does >> that Ada doesn't, which is what made Ada so superior. Until you look >> at the last chapter of the Ada textbook they used here that basicly >> showed how to get around all that string typecasting stiff. :-) And >> all kinds of other dirty little tricks that someone decided really were >> necesary writing programs in the real world. > > There is a big difference between allowing the dirty stuff by > special means and allowing it generally. > > C++ asm and C# unsafe is not bad in my book, because they > are clearly identifiable as dirty. > >> OK. But what about storing 6 ASCII characters packed into one REAL*4 >> variable? :-) > > Not possible in general. There are 128^6 possible combinations > of bits in 6 ASCII characters and 256^4 possible combinations of > bits in a REAL*4. > > Arne If you really limit your character set, you can do better. A six bit code is sufficient to give you the alphabet, the decimal digits, and common punctuation with a few characters left over. The old, old, OLD, model 19 and model 26 teletypes used a five bit code! Two of those codes were "Letter Shift", and "Number Shift" which allowed 62 characters including *stunts" like carriage return, linefeed, bell. . . . I would add that a clean design does much to alleviate the need for "dirty" code! "Clean" code is so much easier to work with. . . . It's not clear to me that there is any point in packing six characters into a "REAL*4". ------------------------------ Date: 30 Nov 2008 01:37:49 GMT From: "Bob Eager" Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-FLZgHhdHcve5@rikki.tavi.co.uk> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 01:19:52 UTC, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > If you really limit your character set, you can do better. A six bit > code is sufficient to give you the alphabet, the decimal digits, and > common punctuation with a few characters left over. It was good enough dor the PDP-8....! > The old, old, OLD, > model 19 and model 26 teletypes used a five bit code! Two of those > codes were "Letter Shift", and "Number Shift" which allowed 62 > characters including *stunts" like carriage return, linefeed, bell. . . . I have some code that generates large message tables that use a six bit code, and the code to retrieve them (there was a good reason at the time). I used the same approach stolen from teletypes, including a shift code. ISTR the ICL 1900 mainframes used three different shift characters, two 'sticky' and one to sift just the next character into yet another range. That was basically 6 bit, being a 24 bit machine. -- Bob Eager Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:04:05 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <4931f495$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> Ah yes, Ada. I remember hearing about all the bad things that C does >>> that Ada doesn't, which is what made Ada so superior. Until you look >>> at the last chapter of the Ada textbook they used here that basicly >>> showed how to get around all that string typecasting stiff. :-) And >>> all kinds of other dirty little tricks that someone decided really were >>> necesary writing programs in the real world. >> >> There is a big difference between allowing the dirty stuff by >> special means and allowing it generally. >> >> C++ asm and C# unsafe is not bad in my book, because they >> are clearly identifiable as dirty. >> >>> OK. But what about storing 6 ASCII characters packed into one REAL*4 >>> variable? :-) >> >> Not possible in general. There are 128^6 possible combinations >> of bits in 6 ASCII characters and 256^4 possible combinations of >> bits in a REAL*4. > > If you really limit your character set, you can do better. Sure. But it ASCII is not within those limits. > A six bit > code is sufficient to give you the alphabet, the decimal digits, and > common punctuation with a few characters left over. > It's not clear to me that there is any point in packing six characters > into a "REAL*4". There are not room for 6 codes of 6 bit in 4 byte either. That only gives 5.33 bit per character. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:02:56 -0800 (PST) From: davidpryce123@yahoo.com.au Subject: Torrent Client for VMS Message-ID: Hi Group, I am interested in downloading software from a VMS to multiple windows clients using a peer-to-peer protocol, instead of FTP or HTTP. Does anyone know of any torrent clients for VMS around? Are they open source? Would prefer not Java clients if possible. Thanks David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:54:34 -0500 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Torrent Client for VMS Message-ID: <4931ba19$0$90265$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> davidpryce123@yahoo.com.au wrote: > I am interested in downloading software from a VMS to multiple windows > clients using a peer-to-peer protocol, instead of FTP or HTTP. > > Does anyone know of any torrent clients for VMS around? > > Are they open source? Would prefer not Java clients if possible. My guess is that it will be either Java or porting work to convert some *nix code to run on VMS. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 20:08:01 -0500 From: glenn everhart Subject: VMS SIG Tape released (last from me) Message-ID: All - This is to let you know I have (belatedly) released another VMS sig tape to those I had on the tree. The following describes what is there; I have mailed the last bunch of CDs today, though those needing the material who cannot find the tree may contact me. I expect this will be the last VMS set I will make. I have sent historical material to Henry Juengst (the address I have is 578 Ginger Trail, Apt. 206, Newport News, VA 23608-1727, juengst@moose.jlab.org) as well as the tapes since he has been most generous with support in the past. If someone else should be named I can and will send the like to a successor. The material has been collected since late 2006 and actually has a good bit released in 2008, though the volume seems to have decreased somewhat. The CDs I sent out are ODS-2 format (most compatible with everyone's systems) though I can concoct historical stuff in ISO9660 also. The VMS ACP reads level 3 which most other systems manage just fine as well, so it is nearly as usable. Most all the material here has been available on the internet at one time or another; the exception here could be the Analyticalc port which works on linux; the VMS version should still build as it was. Many thanks to those who have contributed in many ways over the years. Between the RSX tapes and the VMS tapes, SIGtapes have been issued since the fall of 1977. 30 years is a long time for a computing project to go on, but perhaps we may be remembered as having contributed to the growth of free open source software. I still find the VMS tapes and RSX tapes useful for dealing with some software patents by Johhny-come-latelies, even where the code itself is no longer needed. Best wishes to you all. Glenn C. Everhart Everhart@gce.com 302 659 0460 156 Clark Farm Rd. Smyrna, Delaware 19977 (website at www.gce.com which hasn't a lot new but has one or two oddities...) VMS/LT Spring 2007 SIG Tapes --- -- ------ ---- --- ----- [vmslt07a...] Tree [.ANALY] AnalyRim spreadsheet/dbms, edited to be compilable and buildable with g77 fortran compiler [.NET] BOCHS - x86 emulator. Crypto - java crypto lib. DND - VMS Dungeon & Dragon game. LD - virtual disk [.SAMBA] Samba CIFS system, disk and print sharing system compatible with windows. [.TK] CLRREF.ZIP;1 Clear owner field for a device DECLOGO.HTML;1 DEC logo pictures DECLOGO_FILES.DIR;1 EXPAT-2_0_0_TAR.GZ;1 FLIST.ZIP;1 File and directory manager FREE.ZIP;1 show disk space usage FREETYPE2.TAR-GZ;1 Font mgr for truetype fonts GD-2_0_34.TAR-GZ;1 HGFTP.ZIP;1 Improved FTP daemon for VMS JPEG-6B.TAR-GZ;1 make jpeg files LPNG128.TAR-GZ;1 make png files MMK.ZIP;1 program build facility (similar to mms) MX060.ZIP;1 Mail daemon for VMS, final release; good for antispam too MX060_SRC.ZIP;1 ditto, src NETLIB024.ZIP;1 Network call lib; use to have same calls work for any of several tcp/ip stacks for VMS NSQUERY.ZIP;1 host lookup PQUOTA.ZIP;1 show process quotas SCANUAF.ZIP;1 look for things in UAF files SDL-1_2_11.TAR-GZ;1 display library for games SDL_GFX-2_0_16.TAR-GZ;1 SDL_IMAGE-1_2_5.TAR-GZ;1 SDL_MIXER-1_2_7.TAR-GZ;1 SDL_NET-1_2_6.TAR-GZ;1 SDL_TTF-2_0_8.TAR-GZ;1 TIFF-3_8_2-VMS.TAR-GZ;1 UNZIP-VMS.ZIP;1 uncompress zip files VMSTAR.ZIP;1 uncompress tar files VSM_SOPHOS.ZIP;1 automate sophos IDE updates WATCHER.ZIP;1 watches idle terminals and can protect them ZLIB-1_2_3.ZIP;1 compression library [.VU] ALPHA-ARCHITECTURE.PDF;1 Describes alpha instruction set ANN_IREPORT_FOR_OPENVMS.TXT;1 find Ireport util ANTINODE-VMS-UTILZ.ZIP;1 Many VMS utilities including src/doc ANTIWORD_VMS.HTML;1 ANTIWORD_VMS_FILES.DIR;1 ANTIWORD_VMS_FILES.ZIP;1 ANTIWORKD-MAKEFILE.VMS;1 BASIC-FIX-FTP-SAVESETS.ZIP;1 Fix saveset attributes BASIC-FOREIGN-CMD.ZIP;1 Foreign commands execute from basic lang BASIC-OPEN-FSP-BAS.ZIP;1 FSP protocol BASIC-OPEN-USEROPEN-BAS.ZIP;1 BASIC-WATCHDOG-VMS.ZIP;1 BLISS-0_211.TGZ;1 Bliss compiler bits BORK-1_4.ZIP;1 Cross platform java encryption util BZIP2-1_0_4B_VMS.ZIP;1 Compress files BZIP2-VMS_NOTES.TXT;1 CDRKIT-1_1_5_TAR.GZ;1 Burn cd/dvd CDRTOOLS-2_01_01A39_TAR.GZ;1 ditto CDRTOOLS-OFFICIAL-AN-2_01.01A27;1 CDRTOOLS-VMS_NOTES.TXT;1 CITADEL-7_22_TAR.GZ;1 game CLEARQ.TXT;1 CLEARQ.ZIP;1 CURL-7_18_1-VMS-AXP.ZIP;1 Get files by URL (http or ftp), retries from point of stopping if not all is retrieved CURL-7_18_1-VMS-IA64.ZIP;1 CURL-7_18_1-VMS-VAX.ZIP;1 CURL-7_18_1_TAR.BZ2;1 DFU032.PDF;1 DFU many disk/file maint utilities DIX-0600.ZIP;1 Rebuild corrupt index files DIX-ANN.TXT;1 EMACS_TAR.BZ2;1 Emacs editor part ES40_0_06.ZIP;1 Alpha system ES40 machine emulator. Emulates an Alpha ES40 (well enough to run Alpha VMS on). Runs on vms, windows, whatnot and can run on i386 and amd64 systems as well as others. CVS version below is a bit laterES40_0_08_OPENVMS_ALPHA.ZIP;1 ES40_CVS_20080503_1030_SRC.ZIP;1 FREE-I64VMS-SUPERVERSION-V0102--1.ZIP;1 FREEVMS-0_3_10.TGZ;1 VMS os clone being written to give a free open source replacement for VMS FW_CSV.ZIP;1 GHOSTSCRIPT-8_54_TAR.BZ2;1 Displays postscript files GNUPG-1_4_9B_VMS.ZIP;1 A free OpenPGP implementation, encrypts/ decrypts/signs files. GNUPG-1_9B-VMS_NOTES.TXT;1 GNUPG-2_0_8_TAR.BZ2;1 GNV_COM_2_1_PATCH.ZIP;1 GNV "VMS unix" commands - patches. Get full GNV dist off HP website. GNV_COM_2_1_PATCH_IMPORTANT_README.TXT;1 GNV_UPDATE_DEC30_2006.ZIP;1 more GNV stuff GNV_UPDATE_DEC30_2006_NOTES.TXT;1 GPG-MODS_1-VMS.ZIP;1 GPG-VMS_NOTES.TXT;1 GPG = Gnupg GTAN_1_0.ZIP;1 GTK-PL-2_10_6_VMS_PRE_SRC.ZIP;1 Gnu toolkit for vms GZIP-1_3_12A_VMS.ZIP;1 Gzip compress util for vms HCAM_V1_3.ZIP;1 webcam HP-VMS-DFU-V0302--1.ZIP;1 IMAGEMAGICK-6_3_5-3.ZIP;1 Image file (pictures that is) manipulation and editing INGRES2006-9_3_0-111-GPL-SRC_TAR.BZ2;1 Ingres relational DBMS released open src. Said to be buildable or to have been buildable on VMS once. Had been a commercial dbms (related to postgresql) before release to open source JEM-AXPVMS-ATK-V0112-4E1-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-CAIRO-A0102-6-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-EXPAT-V0200-0E1-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-EXPAT-V0200.ZIP;1 JEM stuff is from John Malberg, many VMS builds of utilities and librzries for image handling, compression, fonts, search and more. Mainly all pcsi kits. JEM-AXPVMS-FONTCONFIG-V0203-2-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-FREETYPE-V0202-1-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-GETTEXT-V0016-1-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-GLIB-A0212-6E3-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-JPEG-V0600-0B.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-LIBPNG-V0102-13.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-LIBPNG-V0102-13E1-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-LIBXRENDER-V0009.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-PANGO-V0114-8E2-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-PKGCONFIG-V0021-0E1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-TIFF-V0308-2.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-TIFF-V0308-2E1-1.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-ZLIB-V0102-3.ZIP;1 JEM-AXPVMS-ZLIB-V0102-3E1-1.ZIP;1 JEM-VMS-RENDEREXT-V0009.ZIP;1 JONAS-VMS-ANN.HTML;1 Where to get JONAS application engine for Java built for VMS. JONAS-VMS.HTML;1 LDDRIVER_BOOTCAMP_2006.PPT;1 Virtual disks for VMS. V9.0 is recent and V8.3 is for older VMS (V7 vintage and earlier) LDDRIVER_BOOTCAMP_2007.PPT;1 LDDRIVER_TECHNICAL_JOURNAL_JUN2005.PDF;1 LDDRIVER_TUD_OCT2006.PPT;1 LDDRIVER_V83.ZIP;1 LDDRIVER_V90.ZIP;1 LIBBZ2-V0100-4-1.ZIP;1 LIBCDIO-0_78_2_TAR.GZ;1 CD read/write library LIBGD-V0200-35-1.ZIP;1 LIBIMAGING-V0101-6-1.ZIP;1 Imaging LIBPNG-V0102-22-1.ZIP;1 LIBXML2-V0206-29-1.ZIP;1 MISC_VMS_PREFIX.C;1 MMJ-PINOUT.TXT;1 Pinout for mmj cables MOSAIC-PREFS.C;1 MOSAIC4_2.ZIP;1 OSAICVMS-LISTING.TXT;1 MTOOLS-3_9_10B_VMS.ZIP;1 Read/write msdos file structures MTOOLS-VMS_NOTES.TXT;1 MYSQL-5_1_23-RC_VMS.ZIP;1 Relational DBMS, built for VMS. Src. MYSQL051-V2301-0-1.ZIP;1 Ditto, binaries NCHREM_TNW_TUDELFT_NL.ZIP;1 Many VMS utils from tudelft repository ODS5_NAMES__AS_IS_LIBRARY_MMS_V__ME.TXT;1 OPENVMS-SRRCHKLST-V2R2-3.ZIP;1 PHP_4_4_7-OVMS-1.ZIP;1 Build of PHP web app system for VMS PORTERPACKAGE_62_73489.TAR;2 Eiffel language source kit PY251EV4_PATCH.ZIP;1 PYTHON-2_5_2-VMS-SRC.ZIP;2 Python language interpreter src PYTHON252-V0101-0-1.ZIP;2 ditto, vms binary kit Q-CAN-ANYONE-WRITE-DEVICE-DRIVERS.TXT;1 RABBIT3-BIN_TAR.GZ;1 RENDEREXT-VMS.TXT;1 RE_LOOKING_FOR_BLUE_DIGITAL_LOGO.TXT;1 RE_SYS$GRANT_LICENSE_OUTPUT_CODES.TXT;1 RE_SYS$GRANT_LICENSE_OUTPUT_CODES2.TXT;1 RE_SYS$GRANT_LICENSE_OUTPUT_CODES3.TXT;1 RE_SYS$GRANT_LICENSE_OUTPUT_CODES4.TXT;1 RE_USB_SUPPORT_ON_ALPHA.TXT;1 RE_XV_3_10A_BUILD_ON_ALPHA_COMMENTS.TXT;1 SCANUAF-2_2.ZIP;1 Look in sysuaf for info or weak pwds SETPASS.ZIP;1 Set password SHOWLOCKS.C;1 SIMHV37-3.ZIP;1 MAchine simulators for many machines. Src. Includes simulators for pdp11 and Vax that can run RSX, RSTS, RT, VMS etc. Also many other simulators for old DEC machines. See trailing-edge.com website for OS code to run under this. SODE34.ZIP;1 math pkg, eqn solve TAPECOPY-VMS-PROGRAM-SRC.TXT;1 UNZIP60D.ZIP;1 VMS unzip V3R5_PRE2_SRC-VMS-GNU-TAR.ZIP;1 VERNE-SEDT2.ZIP;1 VKER.ZIP;1 VMS kermit update VMS.DIR;1 VMSFAQ.ZIP;1 many other simulators for old DEC machines. See trailing-edge.com website for OS code to run under this. SODE34.ZIP;1 math pkg, eqn solve TAPECOPY-VMS-PROGRAM-SRC.TXT;1 UNZIP60D.ZIP;1 VMS unzip V3R5_PRE2_SRC-VMS-GNU-TAR.ZIP;1 VERNE-SEDT2.ZIP;1 VKER.ZIP;1 VMS kermit update VMS.DIR;1 VMSFAQ.ZIP;1 VMSKER.DIR;1 VMSTAR-V3R5_PRE1_SRC.ZIP;1 VNC333R1VMS011.ZIP;1 WEBWARE093-V0100-0-1.ZIP;1 WGET-1_10_2C_VMS.ZIP;1 XPDF-3_02_TAR.GZ;1 XPDF-PACKAGES.SFX_AXPEXE;1 XSCREENSAVER-5_03_TAR.GZ;1 ZAP.MAR ZIP30G.ZIP;1 Latest Zip src, can handle large files ZK.ZIP;1 [.WWW] WASD HTTP server sources plus a few utilities to go with it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 23:11:33 -0500 From: "John Smith \(not the one @ HP\)" Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:4924a65d$0$90269$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > William Webb wrote: >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 5:35 PM, JF Mezei >> wrote: >>> Arne Vajhøj wrote: >>>> HP has 320000 employees (per Wikipedia). >>>> >>>> A cut of 5-10% will mean 16000-32000 people. >>>> >>>> I have no idea about the size of VMS engineering, but >>>> I am pretty sure that it is completely insignificant >>>> compared to those numbers. >>> >>> When rounds of cuts start, this high management guys with power >>> negotiate sweeter deals for their division in exchange for harsher cuts >>> in some other division. >>> >>> So Stallard might negotiate a 5% cut for his strategic disk array unit, >>> while having 35% cuts in the non strategic VMS (exageration here, just >>> to make the point) >>> >>> Remember that HP's goal is to claim VMS is still being developped. >>> Whether 8.4 comes out in 2008, 2009 or 2010 doesn't really change HP's >>> abilities to claim VMS is still being developped. There is no >>> competition for VMS. >>> >>> But there is competition for wintel boxes and for ink, so making cuts in >>> those divisions would result in HP lagging behind competitors and losing >>> its #1 position. >>> >>> Obviously, if demand for PCs and ink drops and they now only need 2 >>> shifts at the assembly plants, then they can fire the 3rd shift. >> >> Remember that HP's goal is to claim VMS is still being developped. >> Whether 8.4 comes out in 2008, 2009 or 2010 doesn't really change HP's >> abilities to claim VMS is still being developped. >> >> I'm tired of this shit, jf. >> >> I can't discuss what I saw, when, or why. >> >> What's planned for the future is nothing short of amazing. It blew me >> away. > > If you can not tell us about it, then there are really no > point in mentioning it. > > Arne In the 'old' days, IBM used to announce what it was going to do long before it was capable of delivering whatever it was. This created FUD in the minds of customers considering switching to VMS or other operating system/platforms - why would you switch when you *knew* that the AS400 was going to get Feature X two years from now?? Digital/Compaq/HP has NEVER known how to effectively market VMS - even in its heyday. Or is HP fearful of another disaster of EPIC proportions in announcing what features VMS has coming? ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.639 ************************