INFO-VAX Tue, 02 Dec 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 643 Contents: Re: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER Re: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER Re: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER Re: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: device types Re: device types Re: device types Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: Good example of C and MACRO Re: HBVS on system-disk shadow set, VAXcluster, reboot, ANA/DISK/REPAIR Re: HBVS on system-disk shadow set, VAXcluster, reboot, ANA/DISK/REPAIR Re: How to make an FTP through a .com file Re: How to make an FTP through a .com file Info-VAX to end Re: Info-VAX to end Re: Info-VAX to end Re: Info-VAX to end Re: MMJ cables Re: MMJ cables RE: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor Re: OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor Re: OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor OT: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers Re: OT: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers RDB plugin/driver for Qt Setting up OpenVMS DCPS for wide 132 column portrait printing to an LPD network Re: Torrent Client for VMS Your attitude has been noted (Was: Re: Integrating VMS applications, business-ru ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:21:44 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER Message-ID: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >Should I be concerned about %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER? Why does >ANA/DISK/REPAIR not repair it? On PAGEFILE.SYS/SWAPFILE.SYS/SYSDUMP.DMP or some other file? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:46:18 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > Should I be concerned about %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER? Why does > ANA/DISK/REPAIR not repair it? > Perhaps because it's only Informational! $ SET VOLUME /HIGHWATER_MARKING should correct it if you need/want to correct it. You might have to issue: $ SET NOHIGHWATER_MARKING followed by: $ SET HIGHWATER_MARKING Sorry to be so vague, it's been 4-1/2 years or more since I last had to deal with that. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:53:51 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER Message-ID: Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > Should I be concerned about %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER? Probably not. The "-I-" says the message is informational. If it were "-E-" or "-F-" you should feel obligated to do something about it. Why does > ANA/DISK/REPAIR not repair it? > Don't remember! Sorry about that. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:47:11 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER Message-ID: In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > >Should I be concerned about %ANALDISK-I-BADHIGHWATER? Why does > >ANA/DISK/REPAIR not repair it? > > On PAGEFILE.SYS/SWAPFILE.SYS/SYSDUMP.DMP Right. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:37:52 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: <7bd3d69e-44ed-4b8f-98df-22607632068b@t2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On Nov 30, 9:49=A0pm, John Santos wrote: > AEF wrote: > > On Nov 28, 3:25 pm, Hein RMS van den Heuvel > > wrote: > > >>On Nov 28, 3:17 pm, hel... (Phillip Helbig--- > >>remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > > >>>Question: since the error is > > >>> =A0 %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full > > >>>how can I create it manually if AUTOGEN can't? > > >>Because Autogen has some temp file already created? > > >>HEADERFULL is a very explicit error there is no negotiaing with that. > > >>>When initialising disks, I'm always rather liberal with the /HEADERS > >>>qualifier, so I don't think that's the problem. > > >>Don't think. > >>Use DFU REPORT > >>Also... /HEADER is a less critical value. > >>/MAXIMUM_FILES is the one that really counts. > > > Not for this problem. Also, the default value for /MAXIMUM_FILES is > > half of the maximum value allowed for the given drive anyway. > > > The problem here is that INDEXF.SYS is so fragmented that its single- > > block file header has run out of room for pointers to its own extents > > (and that this header is required to be only one block in size). > > >>>How can I solve this problem? > > > If manually creating the dump file doesn't work, you will have to > > reduce the number of file headers in use (by deleting files) so that > > they become available for new files. The best solution is to back up > > the disk to tape and restore from tape or back up the drive to another > > drive and use that drive. I don't think you'll ever get this problem > > on this disk again if you do that. > > >>That will depend on what the problem is. > >>You may be able to clean out some files for now, > >>but you may well need to re-init a disk with /MAX=3D'more' and $BACKUP/ > >>NOINIT/IMAGE ... > > > Upping /MAXIMUM_FILES will not help. Simply using BACKUP to move the > > drive's data to tape and back or to another disk will keep you going > > for quite a while. In the 1990's I found that when you reach about > > 50000 files (or file headers), you will fill up the header for > > INDEXF.SYS, after which I never had the same problem again (on the > > given disk, of course). However, the extension algorithm for > > INDEXF.SYS has been greatly improved since then to avoid this very > > problem, but there has been at least one buggy version (which cause me > > a problem once!). Either your disk is severely fragmented or you have > > a buggy version of the algorithm. "Repack" the disk and all will be > > well. > > > (You could help things even more by estimating the total number of > > extents you will ever have on the disk and set /HEADERS to that, but > > with the new extension algorithm this may not matter much at all.) > > >>hth, > >>Hein. > > > AEF > > The best solution, as Alan and others have suggested, is to use > backup to copy the disk (or backup/restore) in order to reduce all > files to a single header and make the free space contiguous so > that indexf.sys can be extended. =A0Initializing the new disk with > appropriate values for /header and /maximum_files would improve > this but probably isn't essential. =A0Changing the clustersize > *might* also help, but for a system disk the default is probably > fine. The /MAXIMUM_FILES qualifier defaults to half the maximum value. It should be fine. The /HEADERS qualifier shouldn't be necessary unless you have a buggy version of the extention algorithm. I once had one that extended INDEXF.SYS in blocks whose sizes were typically 2-digit values. I applied the Y2K patch which included the fix. You could estimate the largest number of file headers you'll ever need, but with the new algorithm you'll probably only get a few -- if not one -- extensions. [...] > -- > John Santos > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 AEF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:42:42 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: <0753522f-5c87-432d-9b68-43b028beeaee@3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> On Dec 1, 1:53=A0am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article , John Santos > > writes: > > The best solution, as Alan and others have suggested, is to use > > backup to copy the disk (or backup/restore) in order to reduce all > > files to a single header and make the free space contiguous so > > that indexf.sys can be extended. =A0 > > OK. =A0I don't think it's INDEXF.SYS, but nevertheless a backup is a good > idea, since the disk is rather fragmented. Defragging the entire disk will help avoid this problem in the future. I heard once that keeping your disk less than 80% full help keeping fragmenting from growing quickly. > > BACKUP/IMAGE. > > /ALIAS or /NOALIAS? =A0The backup will be done from an ALPHA running VMS > 7.3-2. =A0(I mention that since the HELP is different there and on 7.3 > VAX.) =A0The HELP is confusing. =A0On 7.3-2 it says a) use /ALIAS only wh= en > RESTORING (my emphasis) very old save sets and that in almost all other > cases the default is OK---but the default (according to HELP) is /ALIAS. > (7.3 recommends /NOALIAS for BACKUP/IMAGE.) Use /NOALIAS and be done with it. Who cares what the default is? Do you want two copies of every aliased file? NO. Use /NOALIAS except in the oddball case mentioned about restoring very old save sets, in which case use /ALIAS. I experimented with default vs. /NOALIAS once and, IIRC, the default made a few extra copies of just *a few* of the aliased files. I'd go with /NOALIAS and be done with it. (As I said above!) And you can repeat my experiment and report back! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:42:38 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: In article <0753522f-5c87-432d-9b68-43b028beeaee@3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > Use /NOALIAS and be done with it. Who cares what the default is? Do > you want two copies of every aliased file? NO. Use /NOALIAS except in > the oddball case mentioned about restoring very old save sets, in > which case use /ALIAS. I experimented with default vs. /NOALIAS once > and, IIRC, the default made a few extra copies of just *a few* of the > aliased files. I'd go with /NOALIAS and be done with it. (As I said > above!) And you can repeat my experiment and report back! Then there is something seriously wrong with HELP on 7.3-2. It says a) that /ALIAS is the default and b) that the default is almost always correct except when restoring very old save sets. BACKUP/IMAGE is a common operation. I think it is really bizarre that one should have to specify /NOALIAS to get it to work correctly. I want a functionally equivalent copy of the disk. As someone said, it's not a matter of life and death---it's much more important! It's not a matter of taste whether I have multiple copies of files, missing files, or links made with SET FILE/ENTER. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:48:31 +0100 From: Marc Schlensog Subject: Re: device types Message-ID: <20081201204831.562b3332@web.de> On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:47:13 +0000 (UTC) helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > What are these devices? > > SHAC DSSI controller and... > > AMD79C30A ...ISDN controller. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:52:31 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: device types Message-ID: <7ea19505-b6d7-4372-bc7c-0cae5c2420b4@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Dec 1, 6:47=A0pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > What are these devices? > > SHAC > > AMD79C30A Is this a quiz, is there a prize? AMD 79C30A: does ISDN and basic ("telephone quality") audio. Designed into the DEC 3000 series (Flamingo etc), not sure if ISDN was enabled anywhere (different countries work ISDN differently, which makes qualification and support a nightmare). Can't remember what (if any) software support was offered for the audio; it wasn't "multimedia quality" anyway, a separate card was offered for that iirc.From the same era as the AMD LANCE Ethernet chip. SHAC: embedded DSSI controller on VAX 4000 series. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:43:57 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: device types Message-ID: In article <20081201204831.562b3332@web.de>, Marc Schlensog writes: > On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:47:13 +0000 (UTC) > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to > reply) wrote: > > > What are these devices? > > > > SHAC > > DSSI controller and... > > > > AMD79C30A > > ....ISDN controller. Thanks. After inserting some SCSI disks, I decided to add /LOG to SYSGEN> AUTOCONFIGURE ALL and saw these devices which I am not using. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:56:49 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <76d34467-1e61-4ee1-b3fc-9e7fa0fb9c35@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On Nov 28, 6:21=A0pm, Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: > Glen Herrmannsfeldt wrote: > > NeilRieckwrote: > >> I don't want to start a flame war but both Intel and AMD call their > >> popular products RISC machines which happen to be able to run CISC > >> code. This claim was probably engineered by sales folk because I never > >> think of the descendants of Pentium4 as pure RISC architectures. > > > I believe AMD started, and Intel continued, the idea of having > > the processor internally convert the CISC instruction stream > > to RISCops and pass them through to the RISC part of the processor. > > > I don't know if any will let you write RISCop code directly, though. > > > It is much easier to do out-of-order execution at the RISCop level. > > Sure. > > But that is not the exposed instruction set. > > It is more like a specific way of implementing microcode. > > Arne You have hit it right on the head. Intel's marketing people were claiming that IA-32 (at least starting with Netburst) was RISC because once those CISC instructions were decoded into microcode, it was possible that some instructions could be executed in parallel and maybe even out of order. Now any rational person from the technicial side of the street knows that RISC architectures have "large register sets available to the programmer" as well as simple (usually single operand) instructions. When ever I see someone using SIMD instructions like MMX or MMX2 I know that the architecture can't possibly be RISC. Neil ------------------------------ Date: 01 Dec 2008 20:20:06 -0500 From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > In article <493175dd$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, > Arne Vajhøj writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-rfsGVdt9vN3v@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, >>> "Bob Eager" writes: >>>> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 14:36:09 UTC, Arne Vajhj wrote: >>>> >>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>>>>> In article , >>>>>> Glen Herrmannsfeldt writes: >>>>>>> Arne Vajhj wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> C Kermit is from around 1989-1990. I believe that it >>>>>>>> took a few years until C-Kermit was stable enough to replace >>>>>>>> the old VMS Kermit. >>>>>>> Unix C kermit is older than that. For other than unix, >>>>>>> that might be about right. >>>>>>> >>>>>> The BLISS version worked just fine as far as I was concerned. >>>>> The Bliss version was rock solid. >>>>> >>>>> But if I remember correctly, then the C version had >>>>> better performance (due to ability to use larger >>>>> buffers or something like that). >>>> And sliding windows....allowing overlap between send and acknowledge. >>> >>> Too bad there was no one to just add those features to the Bliss >>> version. Hmmmm... Might be fun to try. Especially for someone >>> like me who's only experience with Bliss is knowing it's reputation. >> >> FDC probably wanted to standardize on C Kermit on all/many platforms >> (with a few OS specific modules) to lower the burden of >> maintenance. > Having provided platforms for compiling and maintenance of some Kermit > versions as well as having maintained a few myself, I kknow Frank well > enough that I would bet he would put up a newer version if someone went > to the trouble of making one. I have turned in binaries for versions > of Kermit for machines not able to run C-Kermit, like the PDP-11. In fact, when I was getting our 2065 up and running, Frank not only was excited about fixing a bug in Tops-10 Kermit, but got the original author involved as well. In 2006. And the result went into the appropriate distribution directory at Columbia. So if you feel like tackling Kermit-32 to learn BLISS, I say "Go for it!" -- Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless ------------------------------ Date: 2 Dec 2008 01:39:41 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Good example of C and MACRO Message-ID: <6pjhutF88sakU1@mid.individual.net> In article <8lqnDTaJMYrA@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <6pdujdF7jt18U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> Not possible? I really expected someone to recognize RAD50 (aka RADIX-50) >> when I posted this. :-) > > But you said ASCII. The RAD50 character set is a subset of the ASCII > character set, which is why it works. > > Of course, all PDP-10 programmers know how to put 5 (7-bit) ASCII > characters in a (36 bit) word, and the last release of the Fortran > compilers would allocate a full word if they saw REAL*4. > Read what I posted again. It came right out of my RT-11 Pocket Guide. DEC sure seemed to think it was converting ASCII to REAL*4. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:20:17 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: HBVS on system-disk shadow set, VAXcluster, reboot, ANA/DISK/REPAIR Message-ID: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com >(Michael Moroney) writes: >> > o Shutdown. >> >> > o Physically remove one member of the system-disk shadow set, so >> > that I have a clean backup which I can boot from. (This is the >> > important stuff---see below.) >> >> Is there a reason for not simply dismounting the "backup" shadowset >> member, rather than having the OS look for it and not find it? >If I dismount a member, it is not a clean copy, since there could be >files open for write etc. Most folks say this is not a big deal, but if >I really need a backup copy I want it to be clean. Since it wasn't dismounted on the other nodes, you didn't get a clean copy. If you remove a member like I suggested, the disk is as "dirty" as if the system crashed. Slightly better, actually, since shadowing will wait for all I/Os to complete before removing the member, which, of course, doesn't necessarily happen during a crash. > However, even if I >dismount it, at boot it will be mounted back in if it is available. No, the shadowset SCB would be marked as a 1 member set, and upon reboot, wouldn't have tried to mount the former member, just like it doesn't try to add any other random drive to the shadowset. >> This >> of course would have prevented the hang when rebooting back into the >> cluster. >As I noted in another post, the reason for the hang was that I forgot to >dismount the shadow set on other nodes. I realize this. I just mentioned it since dismounting the member would have made it a 1 member set across the cluster and you never would have seen the hang. > However, the whole idea of the >backup is to NOT have it in the shadow set when the node comes back into >the cluster, in case something went really wrong. As mentioned, shadowing wouldn't try to add a dismounted member back into the set if you boot from the remaining member. (on the other hand, if you booted from the dismounted member, it would still see the other member as a shadowset member. I forget exactly what it does then once it sees that member is newer. It could complain and halt, continue with the newer member or continue with the older(booted) member) Now that I think of it, not dismounting the set on other members may cause you all kinds of grief later. The other members know nothing of the update and may have tried to write data to files delete and replaced since the upgrade. Maybe crudely yanking the drive protected you after all. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:46:47 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: HBVS on system-disk shadow set, VAXcluster, reboot, ANA/DISK/REPAIR Message-ID: In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > >In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com > >(Michael Moroney) writes: > > >> > o Shutdown. > >> > >> > o Physically remove one member of the system-disk shadow set, so > >> > that I have a clean backup which I can boot from. (This is the > >> > important stuff---see below.) > >> > >> Is there a reason for not simply dismounting the "backup" shadowset > >> member, rather than having the OS look for it and not find it? > > >If I dismount a member, it is not a clean copy, since there could be > >files open for write etc. Most folks say this is not a big deal, but if > >I really need a backup copy I want it to be clean. > > Since it wasn't dismounted on the other nodes, you didn't get a clean copy. Right, which is why I went back and did it properly. > No, the shadowset SCB would be marked as a 1 member set, and upon reboot, > wouldn't have tried to mount the former member, just like it doesn't try > to add any other random drive to the shadowset. You're right. > I realize this. I just mentioned it since dismounting the member would > have made it a 1 member set across the cluster and you never would have > seen the hang. Right, but not a clean copy. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 2008 13:36:57 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: How to make an FTP through a .com file Message-ID: In article <08120110031880_2020048A@antinode.info>, sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) writes: > > In which case, one might suggest avoiding embarrassment by keeping > one's fingers quiet about the language difficulties of others (others > who have much better reasons for making minor usage/spelling errors than > ourselves). What, and take all the fun out? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:34:39 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: How to make an FTP through a .com file Message-ID: Steven M. Schweda wrote: > From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) > >>> "[...] with that file as [it is] input stream"? I guess that English >>> is not _your_ first language, either, unless you have some other excuse. >> Well, English was my first language. But everyone on c.o.v knows I >> can't spell and type at the same time. > > In which case, one might suggest avoiding embarrassment by keeping > one's fingers quiet about the language difficulties of others (others > who have much better reasons for making minor usage/spelling errors than > ourselves). > > SMS. Some mail/news software offers spell checking. If I make a mistake in spelling, Thunderbird underlines it in red. I get out my dictionary, find the proper spelling and correct it. I know some of you will find it hard to believe that I am not perfect without my computer! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:33:50 -0700 From: Mark Berryman Subject: Info-VAX to end Message-ID: <4933cba0@mvb.saic.com> Since no one at work uses the usenet feed anymore it is going to be shut down shortly. This means I will be shutting down the various news/mail gateways that I have been running. It also means that I will be shutting down the Info-VAX mailing list since its sole remaining purpose is to act as an email gateway to this newsgroup. The software I have been using to do this was originally written back in the late 80's when the only language available to me to program in was MUMPS. While it has certainly undergone updates in the intervening years, it is unlikely to be something I could turn over to someone else to keep running (especially since the particular flavor of MUMPS I use disappeared before the turn of the new century thanks to GQ Bob). However, if there is anyone else who has the necessary software and would like to take over running this mailing list and these news/mail gateways, please contact me and we'll work something out. According to my memory (which is always suspect) there is no one left in this particular forum who has been around longer than I have (I got started in this forum in 1982). I've been the Info-VAX operator for somewhere between 12 and 15 years. For me, this is the end of an era and, I have to admit, it is a bit saddening. There was once a time when I read every message posted to this forum every day. Now, most of my VMS-related communication occurs elsewhere. To those of you who have been around for a good portion of the 31 years (and counting) of VMS, may there always be some VMS in your computing life. To those of you who are relatively new to VMS, I hope you can appreciate what a well designed, well implemented operating system can be, regardless of the mishandling of it by its owners. So long all, Mark Berryman P.S. In case anyone is wondering, this decision does not impact the freeware site I've been maintaining. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 14:24:08 -0800 (PST) From: H Vlems Subject: Re: Info-VAX to end Message-ID: <4d45f1f0-fa53-470d-944b-4c99075aba03@z1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On 1 dec, 20:33, Mark Berryman wrote: > Since no one at work uses the usenet feed anymore it is going to be shut > down shortly. =A0This means I will be shutting down the various news/mail > gateways that I have been running. =A0It also means that I will be > shutting down the Info-VAX mailing list since its sole remaining purpose > is to act as an email gateway to this newsgroup. > > The software I have been using to do this was originally written back in > the late 80's when the only language available to me to program in was > MUMPS. =A0While it has certainly undergone updates in the intervening > years, it is unlikely to be something I could turn over to someone else > to keep running (especially since the particular flavor of MUMPS I use > disappeared before the turn of the new century thanks to GQ Bob). > However, if there is anyone else who has the necessary software and > would like to take over running this mailing list and these news/mail > gateways, please contact me and we'll work something out. > > According to my memory (which is always suspect) there is no one left in > this particular forum who has been around longer than I have (I got > started in this forum in 1982). =A0I've been the Info-VAX operator for > somewhere between 12 and 15 years. =A0For me, this is the end of an era > and, I have to admit, it is a bit saddening. There was once a time when > I read every message posted to this forum every day. =A0Now, most of my > VMS-related communication occurs elsewhere. > > To those of you who have been around for a good portion of the 31 years > (and counting) of VMS, may there always be some VMS in your computing > life. =A0To those of you who are relatively new to VMS, I hope you can > appreciate what a well designed, well implemented operating system can > be, regardless of the mishandling of it by its owners. > > So long all, > > Mark Berryman > > P.S. =A0In case anyone is wondering, this decision does not impact the > freeware site I've been maintaining. Mark, I'm subscribed to InfoVAX and it allows me to keep up with c.o.v. on my Blackberry. It's sad to hear you're going to stop this service. Thanks! Hans ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:30:43 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Info-VAX to end Message-ID: <00204293$0$12347$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Mark Berryman wrote: > gateways that I have been running. It also means that I will be > shutting down the Info-VAX mailing list since its sole remaining purpose > is to act as an email gateway to this newsgroup. While I have not had to use your service, I would like to thank you for all the efforts you have put in over the years. Roughly how many subscribers are there to the list ? How soon will the shutdown happen ? I dont have software for this anymore, but I would not be opposed to volunteering my systems and internet connection for this task, if it is felt it is needed and if more "official" people don't come forward ? (such as the organisation formerly known as DECUS). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:55:43 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Info-VAX to end Message-ID: <08120118554304_2020048A@antinode.info> From: Mark Berryman > [...] I will be > shutting down the Info-VAX mailing list since its sole remaining purpose > is to act as an email gateway to this newsgroup. #1 28-APR-1999 13:16:42.79 IV From: ALP::SMS To: INFO-VAX-REQUEST@MVB.SAIC.COM CC: SMS Subj: SUBSCRIBE INFO-VAX In spite of the occasional run-on subject line, or stalled queue, I've been a user for a while, and will miss it when it's completely dead. Add my thanks to the pile. Change is bad, I always say. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:13:05 -0800 (PST) From: alan_fay@symantec.com Subject: Re: MMJ cables Message-ID: <5566e27c-a970-4fc5-a9bf-ac4e38972843@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Nov 25, 3:23=A0am, H Vlems wrote: > This post probably belongs in comp.sys.dec but that group now carries > more traffic concerning watches than DEC hardware so I'm posting here > in c.o.v. > Last weekend I rearranged my VAXes and Alpha's because I want to try > an run as many as possible at the same time. They're now all wired to > mains power and the network. The problem is connecting to the > console. > I use two pc's (old Compaq machines with DEC keyboards), each has > three additional serial cards which means that they can handle 16 > systems directly. The other VAXes are daisy chained (TTA2-to-OPA0). > The Alpha's use an HP DB9-to-DB9 cable that comes with their procurve > switches and that works fine. > The VAXes are MMJ only. Most of them are VAXstations BTW (4000-60, > -90A and a VLC) configured for a serial console. The pc interfaces are > fitted with H8571-J connectors, the problem is finding MMJ cables. > I have connectors and wire but no tool to fix the connector to the > flatcable. > What is the partno for the crimptool that accomodates the MMJ > connectors? > Hans Hans, The tool you want is a 6P6C Crimp Tool. I have one, it only has the 6P6C MMJ crimp on it, plus two cable cutters. I bought it years ago for serial console connections to VAX's and still use the same cables with DB9 connectors today when connecting to Alpha's and Itanium's. They are useful when running headless systems and you want to see the boot-up messages and have total control of the system. The cables work over quite long distances, I have one which must be over 20m long, and it works great. I've searched google for "6P6C Crimp Tool" and they are still available. Alan Fay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:21:50 -0500 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: MMJ cables Message-ID: <8660a3a10812011421p36000e1avafc670e1a98f7e4b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:41 PM, JF Mezei wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > >> MMJs have 6. > > Since the clip is on one side of the plug, does the fact that you are > left-handed make it harder for you to handle those plugs ? :-) :-) :-) ;-) > > Did you ever request that DEC make left-handed MMJ connectors ? :-) > You *are* evil. :-) Although it'd be really fun to "punk" a junior staffer by taking genuine grey flat cable and putting "backwards" MMJ connectors on it and see how long he tried putting it in someplace before figuring out what was wrong... WWWebb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 01:20:51 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers Message-ID: <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593EDA7A346C@GVW1158EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: Neil Rieck [mailto:n.rieck@sympatico.ca] > Sent: December 1, 2008 3:04 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: OT: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers > > This article should not surprise anyone in this NG, but it is nice to > know others are working on a fix. > > Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers > http://spectrum.ieee.org/nov08/6912 > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ Its not only multi-cores that is the issue, but rather new buses like Intel= 's new QuickPath (formerly called CSI). The new X86/Itanium bus architecture is NUMA based and that is a new paradi= gm that for very high performance requires accessing local memory much more th= an remote memory. Hence, the OS and App's need to be aware and be able to maxi= mize perf with this architecture. Reference: http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/reference/whitepaper_QuickPath.pdf Btw, anyone on this newsgroup know of an OS that already has a great deal o= f experience With NUMA architectures? :-) Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:00:34 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor Message-ID: <03e6d059-b81c-4025-b6d4-e42dba4f83b0@l42g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> For all you hardware hackers: How We Found the Missing Memristor http://spectrum.ieee.org/dec08/7024 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:44:04 -0700 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor Message-ID: <1228185494_323@isp.n> Neil Rieck wrote: > For all you hardware hackers: How We Found the Missing Memristor > > http://spectrum.ieee.org/dec08/7024 > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada. > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ Thank you for posting that link! Raising left eyebrow, "Fascinating!" :) ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:57:26 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor Message-ID: <00209d36$0$12345$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> > Neil Rieck wrote: >> For all you hardware hackers: How We Found the Missing Memristor >> >> http://spectrum.ieee.org/dec08/7024 isn't that the type of research that won't happen again after Hurd scaled HP Labs down to focus on less esoteric stuff ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:04:14 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: OT: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers Message-ID: This article should not surprise anyone in this NG, but it is nice to know others are working on a fix. Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers http://spectrum.ieee.org/nov08/6912 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:51:43 -0800 (PST) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers Message-ID: <675fbfd7-f43f-45f6-b7db-5438fd10ebd1@u14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com> On Dec 1, 8:04=A0pm, Neil Rieck wrote: > This article should not surprise anyone in this NG, but it is nice to > know others are working on a fix. > > Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputershttp://spectrum.ieee.org/nov08/69= 12 > > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > Ontario, Canada.http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ Not sure about that particular article but the idea (that there'll be another bottleneck, and it might be memory) is valid... Anyway, multicores are largely irrelevant to improving the user experience on the vast majority of applications on the vast majority of computers used by the vast majority of computer users out there. Yes, there's a small subset of applications out there which can benefit. As indeed there was a small subset of applications which benefited from SMP when it first came out, as some readers round here may remember. But SMP was not a panacea, massively parallel processing wasn't either, and nor is multicore technology. Webservers, probably yes they'll benefit. Multiple virtual machines on one box, maybe (depends on workloads). What else? Multiple parallel virus scans across multiple hard drives is hardly a "killer multicore app" is it? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:40:19 -0800 (PST) From: yyyc186 Subject: RDB plugin/driver for Qt Message-ID: <56d61dcf-b10b-430e-b1ba-b1ddfbccf050@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Hello, I'm doing some work with Qt and have seen various messages about people porting Qt to OpenVMS. What I haven't seen is any messages about an RDB pluging/driver for Qt that would let an application running on a 64-bit Ubuntu desktop access an RDB database being served up by an OpenVMS cluster. Anyone know if such a beast exists? Thanks, Roland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:06:16 +0000 From: Mark Wickens Subject: Setting up OpenVMS DCPS for wide 132 column portrait printing to an LPD network Message-ID: Folks I've had to consult quite a few sources to get OpenVMS set up to print to a network based LPD postscript printer, so I thought I'd share my setup in the hope it saves someone else a bit of searching. The main problem I had was coaxing my laser printer into 132 column portrait mode - previous solutions I found on comp.os.vms frustratingly left me with 131 columns because of the minimum margins imposed by the laser printer. The blog post is at http://blog.wickensonline.co.uk Content of the blog should be treated as a VMS printing noob experience - no flames please ;) Regards, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 2008 13:36:18 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Torrent Client for VMS Message-ID: In article , johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: > > I can't help wondering if I've understood the question right. Areas > where VMS is used are usually quite concerned about things like > security, authentication, and what not. Connectivity (and cost > thereof) typically aren't so much of an issue. If you don't have any connectivity, security is already a much smaller issue. But the areas you describe sound a lot like HP's concept of where VMS will sell, which does not particularly match my experience of where it is used. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:42:19 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Your attitude has been noted (Was: Re: Integrating VMS applications, business-ru Message-ID: Hi Arne, > > Then you must be really pissed off that Ann MacQuaid (or one of her > > lackeys) canned them, > > No. It is called progress. Yes comrade, there are NO mistakes, failures, or retrograde steps, on the long-march to the glory of perpetual change, it is all "progress"! Furthermore it is your duty to denounce those who attempt to cling to the bourgeois concepts of stability, security, ROI, and accountability. Did we not all grow as citizens through the struggle of BridgeWorks? Did the polit bureau not get to stuff their pockets with the ill-gotten gains? > And why do you think it had zero ROI ? Well, 1) No one used it 2) No one bought or retained a single VMS system because of it 3) No code was re-used And why do you think it had > 0 ROI? (Sure, the project team obtained a HUGE return! Is that what you meant?) > [Tier3] I must admit that I have not tried it, I'm more than happy to send you a kit if you'd like to give it a go. > but it is my impression > that it does something completely different than the before > mentioned products. What Tier3 does is provide VMS/3GL users with simply the best way of exposing their code, business-rules, and data, to GUI and/or Web front-ends (or, in fact, expose them to any other system/application on the network.) What Tier3 doesn't do is de-serialize/serialize a whole lot of quasi-objects and generate oodles of XML and Header bloat in a context devoid and session-hijackable environment. So I guess they *are* completely different :-) Think many and varied BSD-style Socket clients from Windows Silverlight or ActiveX Controls, Sun/Java, Adobe Flex/AIR, HTML5 WebSockets, and VMS $QIOs, then think of what would be desirable on the server: - - Transparent Multi-Threading and Network interaction (TCP/IP or DECnet) - Application-Based Tuning and configuration - Persistent Network Connection - Unbridled, full-duplex binary stream communication - VMS Authentication and client persona availability - Transactional Data Integrity. - Server-affinity and transaction-duration under application control - Execution Server Processes re-usable on a transactional basis - Preservation of Existing Investment (All you need to provide is a shareable image with just 6 routines) - No need for Java and its Garbage Collector, Apache, WASD, OSU, WSIT, BridgeWorks, SOAP/Toolkit, Axis2, PHP, Perl, Python, CGI. Just the raw VMS grunt you know and love with your rich herritage of 3GLs, businees rules, and data, opened up to *any* client interface (Web-based or not). Well, that's my list; perhaps yours could be summed up as: - 1) Must be Java/SOAP 2) Go to 1 > That world moves rather fast. Web service toolkits is not a "run the > same in 10 years" area. So maybe I've got you all wrong; are you saying JAVA *is* the new COBOL and has out-lived it usefulness, and is not so much passe as "So like the nineties man"? I get it now, "canning" JAVA would be "called progress"? I'll let Ann know. > [GUI] As far as I know, then people have been doing that for 14 years, > so they are not doing it before that. Please tell me with what tools they have been using and which of those are still in use and supported today. Did you mean ODBC interfaces? TP Web Connector? Some bollocks DECForms convertor? > Not really. > > My opinion is that VMS should support all of them. In current versions > that is. Excellent! Tell me who I should talk to at VMS Middle-Management about bundling Tier3 with VMS. (I want to get in there before the Mono .NET guys!) "Oh but there's finite resources and ROI issues" unless, of course, you want 3 web-browsers on VMS and 4 SOAP APIs and then we go once more around the same bullshit spin-doctor arguments with the only outcome being that Robert Mugabe and cohorts still get to stuff the cash away while us poor VMSians are literally dieing on our feet and eating termites :-( Honestly, if their only strategy for VMS is to deliver poorly-performing copies of what other people are doing but 2-to-10 years late, then what are they getting paid for? Surely a half-trained gibbon could do that? > > 1.7 on the way already? Wow! > > Latest say summer 2009. Cool! Cheers Richard Maher "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message news:4928de6d$0$90271$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > Richard Maher wrote: > > "Arne Vajhøj" wrote in message > > news:4922309e$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > >> Richard Maher wrote: > >>> Consider instead a couple of examples of what we know HP/VMS to have deigned > >>> "useful" in the not too distant past: - BridgeWorks (IIRC you're a big fan?) > >>> and SOAP/Toolkit. Tell us how bloody useful they were Arne, and what was the > >>> opportunity cost (let alone the dollar-cost) to a more deserving > >>> architecture(s)? > >> Both seems rather useful to me. > > > > Then you must be really pissed off that Ann MacQuaid (or one of her > > lackeys) canned them, > > No. It is called progress. > > > after recouping exactly zero ROI? > > And why do you think it had zero ROI ? > > >> And I am not quite sure what you consider a better alternative. > > > > What was the question again? > > > > Regardless, the answer is Tier3! > > I must admit that I have not tried it, but it is my impression > that it does something completely different than the before > mentioned products. > > > I just don't see > > why the VMS customers should be paying for *at least* three different SOAP > > implementations (some that have already been retired) > > That world moves rather fast. Web service toolkits is not a "run the > same in 10 years" area. > > > before they can even > > webify or put a simple GUI on their existing 3GL applications. > > As far as I know, then people have been doing that for 14 years, so they > are not doing it before that. > > >> Those do not substitute but complement BW/WSIT/etc.. > > > > Bollocks! For *your* carefully framed requirements maybe, > > Since they do not solve the same problem, then not for anybodys > requirements. > > > The more I read the more I agree with you. But at the risk of putting words > > in your mouth, you're not too keen on REST, Ajax, Perl, PHP, Python or in > > fact anything that isn't Java/SOAP-based either are you? > > Not really. > > My opinion is that VMS should support all of them. In current versions > that is. > > I do have some opinions about what they are suited for and how they > should be used. But I have that about anything else from Java to Fortran > as well. > >> I have not even looked at 1.6_10 - those technologies are not really > >> within my areas of interest. 1.7 on the other hand will have some > >> goodies. > > > > 1.7 on the way already? Wow! > > Latest say summer 2009. > > Arne ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.643 ************************