INFO-VAX Tue, 02 Dec 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 644 Contents: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full gnutar and tape drive Re: gnutar and tape drive Re: Info-VAX to end Re: Info-VAX to end Re: Info-VAX to end Re: Info-VAX to end Re: MMJ cables Re: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Oracle 10g problem with OUI and VMS 8.2 with Multinet 5.2 Re: OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor Re: OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor Synchronize with a remote ntp source Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source sys$scan_intrusion usage Telnet process terminations ucx (more info needed) Re: ucx (more info needed) Re: ucx (more info needed) Re: VMS SIG Tape released (last from me) Re: VMS, HP and the recession Re: VMS, HP and the recession Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? X-terminals Re: X-terminals Re: X-terminals Re: X-terminals Re: X-terminals Re: X-terminals Re: X-terminals Re: X-terminals Re: X-terminals Re: X-terminals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:00:50 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: <31793df9-c71b-4d3e-8f32-9a6b98ed0144@13g2000yql.googlegroups.com> On Dec 2, 2:42=A0am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article > <0753522f-5c87-432d-9b68-43b028bee...@3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, AEF > > writes: > > Use /NOALIAS and be done with it. Who cares what the default is? Do > > you want two copies of every aliased file? NO. Use /NOALIAS except in > > the oddball case mentioned about restoring very old save sets, in > > which case use /ALIAS. I experimented with default vs. /NOALIAS once > > and, IIRC, the default made a few extra copies of just *a few* of the > > aliased files. I'd go with /NOALIAS and be done with it. (As I said > > above!) And you can repeat my experiment and report back! > > Then there is something seriously wrong with HELP on 7.3-2. =A0It says a) > that /ALIAS is the default and b) that the default is almost always > correct except when restoring very old save sets. =A0BACKUP/IMAGE is a > common operation. =A0I think it is really bizarre that one should have to > specify /NOALIAS to get it to work correctly. =A0I want a functionally > equivalent copy of the disk. =A0As someone said, it's not a matter of lif= e > and death---it's much more important! =A0It's not a matter of taste > whether I have multiple copies of files, missing files, or links made > with SET FILE/ENTER. *** I still recommend to use /NOALIAS. That's what I do for save operations, and I recently had to restore a system disk from a BACKUP save set for which I used /NOALIAS and it worked fine. (VAX/VMS V6.2) Why don't you try it and use /LIST both during and after the save operation and report back. *** From the V7.3-2 online manual /ALIAS Command Qualifier Specifies that the previous behavior of multiple processing of alias and primary file entries be maintained. Note Use the /ALIAS qualifier only when you are restoring very old save sets (from OpenVMS Version 6.2 or earlier). The current default behavior is correct in nearly every other situation. If you are in doubt about using this qualifier, contact your HP support representative. [The above is clearly not self-consistent. It says that /ALIAS is to be used ***ONLY*** for restoring VERY OLD save sets. Then is implies that the "current default behavior" is something else, which can only be /NOALIAS.] Description The /ALIAS qualifier maintains the previous BACKUP behavior of treating alias file entries the same as primary file entries. Therefore, a primary file may be processed multiple times by BACKUP if one or more alias file entries reference the same primary file entry. If you specify /NOALIAS, alias directory and file entries are ignored. Therefore, multiple processing of primary files may be avoided, which saves time and save-set file space. If a restore operation is performed using the /ALIAS qualifier but the save set was created by using the /NOALIAS qualifier, a message is displayed that the /ALIAS qualifier will be ignored. Format /ALIAS save-set-spec (default) /NOALIAS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:20:14 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: AUTOGEN reports: %SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL, file header is full Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 004EA0A785257513_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" AEF wrote on 12/02/2008 09:00:50 AM: > On Dec 2, 2:42 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > > In article > > <0753522f-5c87-432d-9b68-43b028bee...@3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, AEF > > > > writes: > > > Use /NOALIAS and be done with it. Who cares what the default is? Do > > > you want two copies of every aliased file? NO. Use /NOALIAS except in > > > the oddball case mentioned about restoring very old save sets, in > > > which case use /ALIAS. I experimented with default vs. /NOALIAS once > > > and, IIRC, the default made a few extra copies of just *a few* of the > > > aliased files. I'd go with /NOALIAS and be done with it. (As I said > > > above!) And you can repeat my experiment and report back! > > > > Then there is something seriously wrong with HELP on 7.3-2. It says a) > > that /ALIAS is the default and b) that the default is almost always > > correct except when restoring very old save sets. BACKUP/IMAGE is a > > common operation. I think it is really bizarre that one should have to > > specify /NOALIAS to get it to work correctly. I want a functionally > > equivalent copy of the disk. As someone said, it's not a matter of life > > and death---it's much more important! It's not a matter of taste > > whether I have multiple copies of files, missing files, or links made > > with SET FILE/ENTER. > > *** I still recommend to use /NOALIAS. That's what I do for save > operations, and I recently had to restore a system disk from a BACKUP > save set for which I used /NOALIAS and it worked fine. (VAX/VMS V6.2) > Why don't you try it and use /LIST both during and after the save > operation and report back. *** > > From the V7.3-2 online manual > > /ALIAS > > Command Qualifier > > Specifies that the previous behavior of multiple processing of alias > and primary file entries be maintained. > > Note > Use the /ALIAS qualifier only when you are restoring very old save > sets (from OpenVMS Version 6.2 or earlier). The current default > behavior is correct in nearly every other situation. If you are in > doubt about using this qualifier, contact your HP support > representative. > > [The above is clearly not self-consistent. It says that /ALIAS is to > be used ***ONLY*** for restoring VERY OLD save sets. Then is implies > that the "current default behavior" is something else, which can only > be /NOALIAS.] > > Description > > The /ALIAS qualifier maintains the previous BACKUP behavior of > treating alias file entries the same as primary file entries. > Therefore, a primary file may be processed multiple times by BACKUP if > one or more alias file entries reference the same primary file entry. > > If you specify /NOALIAS, alias directory and file entries are > ignored. Therefore, multiple processing of primary files may be > avoided, which saves time and save-set file space. If a restore > operation is performed using the /ALIAS qualifier but the save set was > created by using the /NOALIAS qualifier, a message is displayed that > the /ALIAS qualifier will be ignored. > > Format > > /ALIAS save-set-spec (default) > > /NOALIAS The CLD does not seem to know the default, viz., define verb BACKUP image BACKUP parameter P1, label=INPUTS, prompt="From" value (required,list,type=$infile) parameter P2, label=OUTPUTS, prompt="To" value (required,list,type=$outfile) qualifier ALIAS qualifier ANALYZE, nonnegatable qualifier ASSIST, default so the help file is suspect, as it contradicts itself. --=_alternative 004EA0A785257513_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote on 12/02/2008 09:00:50 AM:

> On Dec 2, 2:42 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---
> remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote:
> > In article
> > <0753522f-5c87-432d-9b68-43b028bee...@3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, AEF
> >
> > <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > > Use /NOALIAS and be done with it. Who cares what the default is? Do
> > > you want two copies of every aliased file? NO. Use /NOALIAS except in
> > > the oddball case mentioned about restoring very old save sets, in
> > > which case use /ALIAS. I experimented with default vs. /NOALIAS once
> > > and, IIRC, the default made a few extra copies of just *a few* of the
> > > aliased files. I'd go with /NOALIAS and be done with it. (As I said
> > > above!) And you can repeat my experiment and report back!
> >
> > Then there is something seriously wrong with HELP on 7.3-2.  It says a)
> > that /ALIAS is the default and b) that the default is almost always
> > correct except when restoring very old save sets.  BACKUP/IMAGE is a
> > common operation.  I think it is really bizarre that one should have to
> > specify /NOALIAS to get it to work correctly.  I want a functionally
> > equivalent copy of the disk.  As someone said, it's not a matter of life
> > and death---it's much more important!  It's not a matter of taste
> > whether I have multiple copies of files, missing files, or links made
> > with SET FILE/ENTER.
>
> *** I still recommend to use /NOALIAS. That's what I do for save
> operations, and I recently had to restore a system disk from a BACKUP
> save set for which I used /NOALIAS and it worked fine. (VAX/VMS V6.2)
> Why don't you try it and use /LIST both during and after the save
> operation and report back. ***
>
> From the V7.3-2 online manual
>
> /ALIAS
>
> Command Qualifier
>
> Specifies that the previous behavior of multiple processing of alias
> and primary file entries be maintained.
>
> Note
> Use the /ALIAS qualifier only when you are restoring very old save
> sets (from OpenVMS Version 6.2 or earlier). The current default
> behavior is correct in nearly every other situation. If you are in
> doubt about using this qualifier, contact your HP support
> representative.
>
> [The above is clearly not self-consistent. It says that /ALIAS is to
> be used ***ONLY*** for restoring VERY OLD save sets. Then is implies
> that the "current default behavior" is something else, which can only
> be /NOALIAS.]
>
> Description
>
>     The /ALIAS qualifier maintains the previous BACKUP behavior of
> treating alias file entries the same as primary file entries.
> Therefore, a primary file may be processed multiple times by BACKUP if
> one or more alias file entries reference the same primary file entry.
>
>     If you specify /NOALIAS, alias directory and file entries are
> ignored. Therefore, multiple processing of primary files may be
> avoided, which saves time and save-set file space. If a restore
> operation is performed using the /ALIAS qualifier but the save set was
> created by using the /NOALIAS qualifier, a message is displayed that
> the /ALIAS qualifier will be ignored.
>
> Format
>
>     /ALIAS save-set-spec (default)
>
>     /NOALIAS

The CLD does not seem to know the default, viz.,

define verb BACKUP
   image BACKUP
   parameter P1, label=INPUTS, prompt="From"
      value (required,list,type=$infile)
   parameter P2, label=OUTPUTS, prompt="To"
      value (required,list,type=$outfile)
   qualifier ALIAS
   qualifier ANALYZE, nonnegatable
   qualifier ASSIST, default

so the help file is suspect, as it contradicts itself. --=_alternative 004EA0A785257513_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 02:42:25 -0800 (PST) From: kimmo.berghall@gmail.com Subject: gnutar and tape drive Message-ID: Hello, Is it possible to use gnutar from GNV to create archive to tape? Now I get $ gtar cvf /$tape JEM-AXPVMS-GNUTAR-V0119--1.PCSI$COMPRESSED %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=000000000000 0000, PC=FFFFFFFF809A8960, PS=0000001B %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows image module routine line rel PC abs PC DECC$SHR_EV56 0 0000000000000960 FFFFFFFF809A8960 DECC $SHR_EV56 ? ? DECC$SHR_EV56 0 00000000001498EC FFFFFFFF80AF18EC DECC $SHR_EV56 ? ? GNUTAR 0 0000000000045A58 0000000000045A58 GNUTAR 0 0000000000046F98 0000000000046F98 GNUTAR 0 000000000004768C 000000000004768C GNUTAR 0 000000000004950C 000000000004950C GNUTAR 0 00000000000496A0 00000000000496A0 GNUTAR 0 0000000000048490 0000000000048490 GNUTAR 0 000000000006144C 000000000006144C GNUTAR 0 000000000005EA3C 000000000005EA3C GNUTAR 0 000000000007289C 000000000007289C 0 FFFFFFFF80267ED4 FFFFFFFF80267ED4 vmstar work ok. Regards, Kimmo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:41:51 +0100 From: Joseph Huber Subject: Re: gnutar and tape drive Message-ID: kimmo.berghall@gmail.com wrote: > Hello, > > Is it possible to use gnutar from GNV to create archive to tape? Now I > get > $ gtar cvf /$tape JEM-AXPVMS-GNUTAR-V0119--1.PCSI$COMPRESSED > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual I use it without problem also from DCL level, but certainly the syntax "/$tape" for the tar file or tape will not be translated to something valid by DCL. It might be valid under bash. Use the translation of $tape and see if it works. And without knowing at which stage gtar is producing the error, be sure the tape is MOUNTED/FOREIGN. > vmstar work ok. No wonder, vmstar has VMS command syntax built in. -- Joseph Huber, http://www.huber-joseph.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:46:40 +0100 From: "nierveze" Subject: Re: Info-VAX to end Message-ID: <008101c9545a$82ac75a0$04000005@pc> hello everyone,I am a long time vms user ,and a real Digital 'addict',I have pdp8,11,lots of vaxes, etc...I have been using info-vax from a long time ,sometimes suscribed ,sometimes unsubscribed ,until now I had news groups also ,but now that my isp does not provide news groups for satellite internet ,all I have left is the good old info vax (and decuse= rve of course) to keep in contact easily .So really I am sad ,but the positiv= e thing is it to remind that behind all those 'digital' virtual things we = use every day there are real people who work .Thanks very much for the long w= ork of maintaining that list. alain nierveze ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Mark Berryman" =C0 : Envoy=E9 : lundi 1 d=E9cembre 2008 20:33 Objet : Info-VAX to end > Since no one at work uses the usenet feed anymore it is going to be shu= t > down shortly. This means I will be shutting down the various news/mail > gateways that I have been running. It also means that I will be > shutting down the Info-VAX mailing list since its sole remaining purpos= e > is to act as an email gateway to this newsgroup. > > The software I have been using to do this was originally written back i= n > the late 80's when the only language available to me to program in was > MUMPS. While it has certainly undergone updates in the intervening > years, it is unlikely to be something I could turn over to someone else > to keep running (especially since the particular flavor of MUMPS I use > disappeared before the turn of the new century thanks to GQ Bob). > However, if there is anyone else who has the necessary software and > would like to take over running this mailing list and these news/mail > gateways, please contact me and we'll work something out. > > According to my memory (which is always suspect) there is no one left i= n > this particular forum who has been around longer than I have (I got > started in this forum in 1982). I've been the Info-VAX operator for > somewhere between 12 and 15 years. For me, this is the end of an era > and, I have to admit, it is a bit saddening. There was once a time when > I read every message posted to this forum every day. Now, most of my > VMS-related communication occurs elsewhere. > > To those of you who have been around for a good portion of the 31 years > (and counting) of VMS, may there always be some VMS in your computing > life. To those of you who are relatively new to VMS, I hope you can > appreciate what a well designed, well implemented operating system can > be, regardless of the mishandling of it by its owners. > > So long all, > > Mark Berryman > > P.S. In case anyone is wondering, this decision does not impact the > freeware site I've been maintaining. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:18:56 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Info-VAX to end Message-ID: On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:46:40 -0800, nierveze wrote: > hello everyone,I am a long time vms user ,and a real Digital 'addict',I > have pdp8,11,lots of vaxes, > etc...I have been using info-vax from a long time ,sometimes suscribed > ,sometimes unsubscribed ,until now I had > news groups also ,but now that my isp does not provide news groups for > satellite internet ,all I have left is the good old info vax (and > decuserve > of course) to keep in contact easily .So really I am sad ,but the > positive > thing is it to remind that behind all those 'digital' virtual things we > use > every day there are real people who work .Thanks very much for the long > work > of maintaining that list. > alain nierveze Can you affor ¤10 per year? news.individual.net is a service of Uni Berlin. > ----- Message d'origine ----- > De : "Mark Berryman" > À : > Envoyé : lundi 1 décembre 2008 20:33 > Objet : Info-VAX to end > > >> Since no one at work uses the usenet feed anymore it is going to be shut >> down shortly. This means I will be shutting down the various news/mail >> gateways that I have been running. It also means that I will be >> shutting down the Info-VAX mailing list since its sole remaining purpose >> is to act as an email gateway to this newsgroup. >> >> The software I have been using to do this was originally written back in >> the late 80's when the only language available to me to program in was >> MUMPS. While it has certainly undergone updates in the intervening >> years, it is unlikely to be something I could turn over to someone else >> to keep running (especially since the particular flavor of MUMPS I use >> disappeared before the turn of the new century thanks to GQ Bob). >> However, if there is anyone else who has the necessary software and >> would like to take over running this mailing list and these news/mail >> gateways, please contact me and we'll work something out. >> >> According to my memory (which is always suspect) there is no one left in >> this particular forum who has been around longer than I have (I got >> started in this forum in 1982). I've been the Info-VAX operator for >> somewhere between 12 and 15 years. For me, this is the end of an era >> and, I have to admit, it is a bit saddening. There was once a time when >> I read every message posted to this forum every day. Now, most of my >> VMS-related communication occurs elsewhere. >> >> To those of you who have been around for a good portion of the 31 years >> (and counting) of VMS, may there always be some VMS in your computing >> life. To those of you who are relatively new to VMS, I hope you can >> appreciate what a well designed, well implemented operating system can >> be, regardless of the mishandling of it by its owners. >> >> So long all, >> >> Mark Berryman >> >> P.S. In case anyone is wondering, this decision does not impact the >> freeware site I've been maintaining. >> > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:24:21 +0100 From: "nierveze" Subject: Re: Info-VAX to end Message-ID: <002e01c95481$4a84c7a0$2221f8c1@nierveze> hello I did not know that,thanks .Uni berlin?you mean university of Berli= n in Germany? thanks alain nierveze -----Message d'origine----- De : Tom Linden =C0 : Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Date : mardi 2 d=E9cembre 2008 14:22 Objet : Re: Info-VAX to end >On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:46:40 -0800, nierveze > wrote: > >> hello everyone,I am a long time vms user ,and a real Digital 'addict',= I >> have pdp8,11,lots of vaxes, >> etc...I have been using info-vax from a long time ,sometimes suscribed >> ,sometimes unsubscribed ,until now I had >> news groups also ,but now that my isp does not provide news groups for >> satellite internet ,all I have left is the good old info vax (and >> decuserve >> of course) to keep in contact easily .So really I am sad ,but the >> positive >> thing is it to remind that behind all those 'digital' virtual things = we >> use >> every day there are real people who work .Thanks very much for the lon= g >> work >> of maintaining that list. >> alain nierveze > >Can you affor =A410 per year? news.individual.net is a service of Uni >Berlin. > >> ----- Message d'origine ----- >> De : "Mark Berryman" >> =C0 : >> Envoy=E9 : lundi 1 d=E9cembre 2008 20:33 >> Objet : Info-VAX to end >> >> >>> Since no one at work uses the usenet feed anymore it is going to be s= hut >>> down shortly. This means I will be shutting down the various news/ma= il >>> gateways that I have been running. It also means that I will be >>> shutting down the Info-VAX mailing list since its sole remaining purp= ose >>> is to act as an email gateway to this newsgroup. >>> >>> The software I have been using to do this was originally written back= in >>> the late 80's when the only language available to me to program in wa= s >>> MUMPS. While it has certainly undergone updates in the intervening >>> years, it is unlikely to be something I could turn over to someone el= se >>> to keep running (especially since the particular flavor of MUMPS I us= e >>> disappeared before the turn of the new century thanks to GQ Bob). >>> However, if there is anyone else who has the necessary software and >>> would like to take over running this mailing list and these news/mail >>> gateways, please contact me and we'll work something out. >>> >>> According to my memory (which is always suspect) there is no one left= in >>> this particular forum who has been around longer than I have (I got >>> started in this forum in 1982). I've been the Info-VAX operator for >>> somewhere between 12 and 15 years. For me, this is the end of an era >>> and, I have to admit, it is a bit saddening. There was once a time wh= en >>> I read every message posted to this forum every day. Now, most of my >>> VMS-related communication occurs elsewhere. >>> >>> To those of you who have been around for a good portion of the 31 yea= rs >>> (and counting) of VMS, may there always be some VMS in your computing >>> life. To those of you who are relatively new to VMS, I hope you can >>> appreciate what a well designed, well implemented operating system ca= n >>> be, regardless of the mishandling of it by its owners. >>> >>> So long all, >>> >>> Mark Berryman >>> >>> P.S. In case anyone is wondering, this decision does not impact the >>> freeware site I've been maintaining. >>> >> > > > >-- >PL/I for OpenVMS >www.kednos.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:44:39 +0100 From: Michael Unger Subject: Re: Info-VAX to end Message-ID: <6pl046F8ju8uU1@mid.individual.net> On 2008-12-02 14:24, "nierveze" wrote: > hello I did not know that,thanks .Uni berlin?you mean university of Berlin > in Germany? Yes, "Freie Universitaet", see for details. Michael -- Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:20:48 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: MMJ cables Message-ID: On Nov 25, 3:23=A0am, H Vlems wrote: > This post probably belongs in comp.sys.dec but that group now carries > more traffic concerning watches than DEC hardware so I'm posting here > in c.o.v. > Last weekend I rearranged my VAXes and Alpha's because I want to try > an run as many as possible at the same time. They're now all wired to > mains power and the network. The problem is connecting to the > console. > I have connectors and wire but no tool to fix the connector to the > flatcable. > What is the partno for the crimptool that accomodates the MMJ > connectors? > Hans We still have to occasionally make these cables so our tools have to stay, but I've got the following. Yellow plastic handles with removable dies MOD-TAP 04-301 708-24439 The vendor we've been buying from for 15+ years no longer carries any MMJ tools though; just the plugs. No idea on current availability. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 07:55:47 -0800 (PST) From: DaveG Subject: Re: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers Message-ID: <8c77f778-25d7-4831-9526-9e9a53de9e4b@k8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Dec 1, 7:20=A0pm, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Neil Rieck [mailto:n.ri...@sympatico.ca] > > Sent: December 1, 2008 3:04 PM > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: OT: Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers > > > This article should not surprise anyone in this NG, but it is nice to > > know others are working on a fix. > > > Multicore Is Bad News For Supercomputers > >http://spectrum.ieee.org/nov08/6912 > > > Neil Rieck > > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, > > Ontario, Canada. > >http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ > > Its not only multi-cores that is the issue, but rather new buses like Int= el's > new QuickPath (formerly called CSI). > > The new X86/Itanium bus architecture is NUMA based and that is a new para= digm > that for very high performance requires accessing local memory much more = than > remote memory. Hence, the OS and App's need to be aware and be able to ma= ximize > perf with this architecture. > > Reference:http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/reference/whitepaper_Qui= ckPath... > > Btw, anyone on this newsgroup know of an OS that already has a great deal= of > experience With NUMA architectures? > > :-) > > Regards > > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-254-8911 > Fax: 613-591-4477 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT) > > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Most here know the answer to your question. Do the "right" people @ HP know? That's the real question. Dave... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:14:44 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Message-ID: On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 08:40:14 -0800, steel_and_alum_engr wrote: > On Nov 30, 6:28 pm, ja wrote: > >> The main reason for doing the port is the belief that software of this >> nature is missing on OpenVMS and that it provides an ideal solution to >> those looking for a standards-based, Open Source, solution to their >> messaging needs. > > John -- > > For quite a few years now, my company has been using BEA MessageQ, > formerly known as DEC MessageQ, originally known as PAMS. > The product works quite well in our application, and we have used it > on VAX, Alpha, and PC platforms since the early 1990's. > I'm not sure about the current level of support and/or development, > especially since BEA is now a part of Oracle. > We've been running BEA-MQ version 5.0 for a number of years now (on > Alpha), and that may be the most recent (and last) version available > for OpenVMS. MessageQ was written in PL/I, and I know that BEA looked at rewritinbg it in C to port it to Itanium. I don't if that succeeded or not. In any event we will soon be announcing a kit to facilitate porting it (and others) to Itanium. Stay tuned. > > Here is a link to some info on the BEA software: > http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=overview.htm&FP=/content/products/more/messageq > > Your standards-based, open source solution sounds very interesting > though. Good luck with the project. > > Regards, > Steve > -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:32:17 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Message-ID: Tom Linden wrote: > On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 08:40:14 -0800, steel_and_alum_engr > wrote: > >> On Nov 30, 6:28 pm, ja wrote: >> >>> The main reason for doing the port is the belief that software of this >>> nature is missing on OpenVMS and that it provides an ideal solution to >>> those looking for a standards-based, Open Source, solution to their >>> messaging needs. >> >> John -- >> >> For quite a few years now, my company has been using BEA MessageQ, >> formerly known as DEC MessageQ, originally known as PAMS. >> The product works quite well in our application, and we have used it >> on VAX, Alpha, and PC platforms since the early 1990's. >> I'm not sure about the current level of support and/or development, >> especially since BEA is now a part of Oracle. >> We've been running BEA-MQ version 5.0 for a number of years now (on >> Alpha), and that may be the most recent (and last) version available >> for OpenVMS. > > MessageQ was written in PL/I, and I know that BEA looked at rewritinbg it > in C to port it to Itanium. I don't if that succeeded or not. According to the BEA support site, there is a BMQ 5.0 kit for OVMS Itanium... > > In any event we will soon be announcing a kit to facilitate porting it > (and others) to Itanium. Stay tuned. > >> >> Here is a link to some info on the BEA software: >> >> http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=overview.htm&FP=/content/products/more/messageq >> >> >> Your standards-based, open source solution sounds very interesting >> though. Good luck with the project. >> >> Regards, >> Steve >> > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 05:37:42 -0800 (PST) From: elakia@comcast.net Subject: Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Message-ID: <0625dfc7-3509-442f-9da1-6351fafdd392@o2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On Nov 30, 6:28=A0pm, ja wrote: > We would be interested to hear about people interested in the above > subject and whether they would try out a port of the AMQP > (www.amqp.org) specification to OpenVMS. > Details on the port and availability of kits etc. may be found atwww.john= dapps.com, the BC&JA home page. > > The main reason for doing the port is the belief that software of this > nature is missing on OpenVMS and that it provides an ideal solution to > those looking for a standards-based, Open Source, solution to their > messaging needs. > > We are doing this work on a completely voluntary basis in our free > time and hope to engage with others who would be interested in working > with us. > > Disclaimer: this work is not endorsed or supported by our employers > and any opinions expressed are entirely our own. > > Cheers, John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 05:44:11 -0800 (PST) From: elakia@comcast.net Subject: Re: Open Source Message Oriented Middleware on OpenVMS? Message-ID: On Nov 30, 6:28=A0pm, ja wrote: > We would be interested to hear about people interested in the above > subject and whether they would try out a port of the AMQP > (www.amqp.org) specification to OpenVMS. > Details on the port and availability of kits etc. may be found atwww.john= dapps.com, the BC&JA home page. > > The main reason for doing the port is the belief that software of this > nature is missing on OpenVMS and that it provides an ideal solution to > those looking for a standards-based, Open Source, solution to their > messaging needs. > > We are doing this work on a completely voluntary basis in our free > time and hope to engage with others who would be interested in working > with us. > > Disclaimer: this work is not endorsed or supported by our employers > and any opinions expressed are entirely our own. > > Cheers, John IPACT has developed a product and submitted it to encompass. Newer releases are also available from IPACT's web site including all source code. http://www.ipact.com/Products/IQR.htm This product has been in use and in development before BEA (DEC Message Q). In fact the developers of PAMS actually worked on an earlier version (MAQ from Inland Steel also given to DECUS). The SNA gateway router version was done on OpenVMS VAX and is also available. It uses the DEC LU6.2 gateway. For the windows platform, I would use MSMQ with a router between the two. We are trying to get some funding to develop this portion at the current time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 07:40:41 -0800 (PST) From: Verne Subject: Oracle 10g problem with OUI and VMS 8.2 with Multinet 5.2 Message-ID: <56e7e692-422f-47d4-9b7e-b01334e56f16@y18g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> will post to the Multinet discussion list as well ... My site runs Multinet 5.1 under VMS 8.2 on an Alpha with Oracle 9i and 10g just fine. We are upgrading a remote site from Oracle 9i to 10g, but they have the newer Multinet 5.2 (still at VMS 8.2). The Oracle Universal Installer (OUI) for 9i runs OK at the remote site under MU 5.1, but the OUI for 10g will not run ... OUI uses an X11 window; the typical MCR DECW$CLOCK test works fine to show our SET DISPLAY ... settings (using tcpip) are all correct) we get the error: >Copying runInstaller components to temporary location... >Starting Oracle Universal Installer... > >No pre-requisite checks found in oraparam.ini, no system pre-requisite checks >will be executed. >Preparing to launch Oracle Universal Installer from >/d8/oracle/scrach/OraInstall >2008-11-16_04-11-40PM. Please wait ... > Oracle Universal Installer, Version 10.2.0.2.0 Production >Copyright (C) 1999, 2006, Oracle. All rights reserved. > >if_get_ifinfo:: non-translatable vms error code: 0x13C >%system-f-ivchan, invalid i/o channel > >INFORMATION: A number of temporary logicals and global symbols have been > defined which may have overridden your defaults. > > Please LOGOUT and LOGIN again to ensure these are cleaned up. as many of you may know, Oracle does not officially support Multinet ... so pretty soon they will be telling us to test all this under UCX before receiving any additional assistance :-) at my site we can run the OUI just fine under the older Multinet 5.1 and VMS 8.2. we have looked and looked for differences between our two machines but nothing jumps out ... The SWINGSET2.JAR java test runs just fine (OUI uses some Java) on both systems. Yes I have logged a support call with Process :-) Suggestions and questions are welcome !! Verne Britton WVNET ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 03:44:39 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Rieck Subject: Re: OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor Message-ID: On Dec 1, 11:57=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > > Neil Rieck wrote: > >> For all you hardware hackers: How We Found the Missing Memristor > > >>http://spectrum.ieee.org/dec08/7024 > > isn't that the type of research that won't happen again after Hurd > scaled HP Labs down to focus on less esoteric stuff ? I'm not sure what the relationship is between HP corporate and Hp labs, but the discovery of the invention could do two really cool things: 1) bring a ton of money to HP in the form of royalties (which could lead to other future discoveries) 2) revolutionize the electronics industry in a way not seen since the invention of the transistor Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 13:05:53 -0500 From: "John Smith \(not the one @ HP\)" Subject: Re: OT: How We Found the Missing Memristor Message-ID: <489b7$49357903$45c482eb$11180@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> "Neil Rieck" wrote in message news:a2896748-cdbf-4325-8850-f433b8dc7413@41g2000yqf.googlegroups.com... On Dec 1, 11:57 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > > Neil Rieck wrote: > >> For all you hardware hackers: How We Found the Missing Memristor > > >>http://spectrum.ieee.org/dec08/7024 > > isn't that the type of research that won't happen again after Hurd > scaled HP Labs down to focus on less esoteric stuff ? I'm not sure what the relationship is between HP corporate and Hp labs, but the discovery of the invention could do two really cool things: 1) bring a ton of money to HP in the form of royalties (which could lead to other future discoveries) 2) revolutionize the electronics industry in a way not seen since the invention of the transistor Exactly. Like the revolutionary CYMK color ink droplet - which automagically adjusts the intensity of each component upon reaching the page based on the needs of the photo. Just like a cuttlefish. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:19:42 +0200 From: "Jack" Subject: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Message-ID: I have a vax cluster Ver. 6.2. I want to synchronize it with a remote source of ntp server(this is not a computer but a black box that is connected to the LAN and has its ip address). Can someone advise how to do it? Regards Jack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 02:45:38 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Message-ID: <08120202453855_2020048A@antinode.info> From: "Jack" > I have a vax cluster Ver. 6.2. I want to synchronize it with a remote source > of ntp server(this is not a computer but a black box that is connected to > the LAN and has its ip address). > Can someone advise how to do it? Many people would use NTP to do it. Perhaps a psychic who knows which IP software is installed on your system(s) could provide more detailed instructions. If you're using DTSS now, it may be possible to use a DTSS "provider" which is guided by NTP. (Look in SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DTSS], and, possibly, at "http://antinode.info/dec/sw/dtss_ntp.html".) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:56:22 +0000 (UTC) From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Message-ID: In article , "Jack" writes: >I have a vax cluster Ver. 6.2. I want to synchronize it with a remote source >of ntp server(this is not a computer but a black box that is connected to >the LAN and has its ip address). >Can someone advise how to do it? Please tell us which TCP/IP stack you are using. Regards, Christoph Gartmann -- Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -80464 Immunbiologie Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de D-79011 Freiburg, Germany http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html ------------------------------ Date: 2 Dec 2008 07:56:19 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Message-ID: In article , "Jack" writes: > I have a vax cluster Ver. 6.2. I want to synchronize it with a remote source > of ntp server(this is not a computer but a black box that is connected to > the LAN and has its ip address). > Can someone advise how to do it? Depends on which IP stack you're using. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:13:25 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Message-ID: Jack wrote: > I have a vax cluster Ver. 6.2. I want to synchronize it with a remote source > of ntp server(this is not a computer but a black box that is connected to > the LAN and has its ip address). > Can someone advise how to do it? > Regards > Jack > > I'm not all sure that it CAN be done. V6.2 is not an issue but the version of TCP/IP Services (a/k/a UCX or the Ultrix Connection) could be critical! VMS Engineering (UCX Engineering??) managed a port (major rewrite) of the NTP code that runs on some versions of VMS. You would need to look at the Software Product Description for the version of UCX you are running to see if NTP WAS supported. It is not *currently* supported unless you are running the current version!! There are enough Unixisms in the code to make the port a major undertaking! ISTR that Wolfgang Moeller (spelling?) did a port of some earlier version of NTP to some earlier version of VMS. That MAY be available somewhere. You could TRY! It might work but I wouldn't bet on anything older than UCX V5.1. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:56:34 +0200 From: Mike Rechtman Subject: Re: Synchronize with a remote ntp source Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Jack wrote: >> I have a vax cluster Ver. 6.2. I want to synchronize it with a remote >> source >> of ntp server(this is not a computer but a black box that is connected to >> the LAN and has its ip address). >> Can someone advise how to do it? >> Regards >> Jack >> >> > > I'm not all sure that it CAN be done. V6.2 is not an issue but the > version of TCP/IP Services (a/k/a UCX or the Ultrix Connection) could be > critical! > > VAX VMS V6.2 with UCX V4.2 ECO 5 can do NTP (easiest is using UCX$CONFIG --> enable NTP and then copy UCX$NTP.TEMPLATE to UCX$NTP.CONF and edit as per comments in the file.) ... Did that today. -- Mike R. http://alpha.mike-r.com/ -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:02:33 -0800 (PST) From: Pierre Subject: sys$scan_intrusion usage Message-ID: hi, when I use sys$scan_intrusion to log a failed login attempt, while the call result is %SECSRV-I-SUSPECT the audit record 'username' field contains the user that called the system service and once the call result is %SECSRV-I-INTRUDER, the same field contains what is present in the failed_user parameter is this the expected behavior ? [OpenVMS 7.2-1 Alpha] TIA, Pierre. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:24:50 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Telnet process terminations Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00548AD685257513_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I have a process that is run after telneting into the system, and it terminates with with one of three different successful status codes. As you can see, it's either CLI of SYSTEM or RMS. I believe one of these is a normal logout (SYSTEM) and the others are disconnects in DCL (CLI) or in the program being run (RMS). Can anyone confirm this. -Norm Examples: INTERACTIVE Process Termination ------------------------------- Account: ACCOUNT Finish time: 1-DEC-2008 03:00:05.83 Process ID: 20C02B74 Start time: 1-DEC-2008 03:00:05.00 Owner ID: Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.82 Terminal name: NTY2225 Processor time: 0 00:00:00.26 Remote node addr: Priority: 4 Remote node name: TELNET Privilege <31-00>: 00108000 Remote ID: 00000000 Privilege <63-32>: 00000000 Remote full name: TELNET Posix UID: -2 Posix GID: -2 (%XFFFFFFFE) Queue entry: Final status code: 00030001 Queue name: Job name: Final status text: %CLI-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion Page faults: 958 Direct IO: 106 Page fault reads: 155 Buffered IO: 241 Peak working set: 4576 Volumes mounted: 0 Peak page file: 179264 Images executed: 12 INTERACTIVE Process Termination ------------------------------- Account: ACCOUNT Finish time: 1-DEC-2008 03:01:39.17 Process ID: 20C02975 Start time: 1-DEC-2008 03:01:38.66 Owner ID: Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.50 Terminal name: NTY2226 Processor time: 0 00:00:00.18 Remote node addr: Priority: 4 Remote node name: TELNET Privilege <31-00>: 00108000 Remote ID: 00000000 Privilege <63-32>: 00000000 Remote full name: TELNET Posix UID: -2 Posix GID: -2 (%XFFFFFFFE) Queue entry: Final status code: 00000001 Queue name: Job name: Final status text: %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion Page faults: 633 Direct IO: 66 Page fault reads: 103 Buffered IO: 169 Peak working set: 3296 Volumes mounted: 0 Peak page file: 172368 Images executed: 11 INTERACTIVE Process Termination ------------------------------- Account: ACCOUNT Finish time: 1-DEC-2008 03:17:21.05 Process ID: 20C02B79 Start time: 1-DEC-2008 03:17:20.44 Owner ID: Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.61 Terminal name: NTY2228 Processor time: 0 00:00:00.24 Remote node addr: Priority: 4 Remote node name: TELNET Privilege <31-00>: 00108000 Remote ID: 00000000 Privilege <63-32>: 00000000 Remote full name: TELNET Posix UID: -2 Posix GID: -2 (%XFFFFFFFE) Queue entry: Final status code: 10010001 Queue name: Job name: Final status text: %RMS-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion Page faults: 869 Direct IO: 95 Page fault reads: 142 Buffered IO: 242 Peak working set: 4592 Volumes mounted: 0 Peak page file: 179264 Images executed: 12 --=_alternative 00548AD685257513_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I have a process that is run after telneting into the system,
and it terminates with with one of three different successful status codes.
As you can see, it's either CLI of SYSTEM or RMS.

I believe one of these is a normal logout (SYSTEM) and the others are
disconnects in DCL (CLI) or in the program being run (RMS).

Can anyone confirm this.

-Norm

Examples:

INTERACTIVE Process Termination
-------------------------------
Account:           ACCOUNT           Finish time:        1-DEC-2008 03:00:05.83
Process ID:        20C02B74          Start time:         1-DEC-2008 03:00:05.00
Owner ID:                            Elapsed time:                0 00:00:00.82
Terminal name:     NTY2225           Processor time:              0 00:00:00.26
Remote node addr:                    Priority:          4
Remote node name:  TELNET            Privilege <31-00>: 00108000
Remote ID:         00000000          Privilege <63-32>: 00000000
Remote full name:  TELNET
Posix UID:         -2                Posix GID:         -2 (%XFFFFFFFE)
Queue entry:                         Final status code: 00030001
Queue name:
Job name:
Final status text: %CLI-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion
Page faults:              958        Direct IO:                106
Page fault reads:         155        Buffered IO:              241
Peak working set:        4576        Volumes mounted:            0
Peak page file:        179264        Images executed:           12

INTERACTIVE Process Termination
-------------------------------
Account:           ACCOUNT           Finish time:        1-DEC-2008 03:01:39.17
Process ID:        20C02975          Start time:         1-DEC-2008 03:01:38.66
Owner ID:                            Elapsed time:                0 00:00:00.50
Terminal name:     NTY2226           Processor time:              0 00:00:00.18
Remote node addr:                    Priority:          4
Remote node name:  TELNET            Privilege <31-00>: 00108000
Remote ID:         00000000          Privilege <63-32>: 00000000
Remote full name:  TELNET
Posix UID:         -2                Posix GID:         -2 (%XFFFFFFFE)
Queue entry:                         Final status code: 00000001
Queue name:
Job name:
Final status text: %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion
Page faults:              633        Direct IO:                 66
Page fault reads:         103        Buffered IO:              169
Peak working set:        3296        Volumes mounted:            0
Peak page file:        172368        Images executed:           11

INTERACTIVE Process Termination
-------------------------------
Account:           ACCOUNT           Finish time:        1-DEC-2008 03:17:21.05
Process ID:        20C02B79          Start time:         1-DEC-2008 03:17:20.44
Owner ID:                            Elapsed time:                0 00:00:00.61
Terminal name:     NTY2228           Processor time:              0 00:00:00.24
Remote node addr:                    Priority:          4
Remote node name:  TELNET            Privilege <31-00>: 00108000
Remote ID:         00000000          Privilege <63-32>: 00000000
Remote full name:  TELNET
Posix UID:         -2                Posix GID:         -2 (%XFFFFFFFE)
Queue entry:                         Final status code: 10010001
Queue name:
Job name:
Final status text: %RMS-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion
Page faults:              869        Direct IO:                 95
Page fault reads:         142        Buffered IO:              242
Peak working set:        4592        Volumes mounted:            0
Peak page file:        179264        Images executed:           12
--=_alternative 00548AD685257513_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:31:35 +0100 From: "nierveze" Subject: ucx (more info needed) Message-ID: <003001c95482$4cb0b2e0$2221f8c1@nierveze> Hello again ,after our discussion about ucx and dhcp ,I bought the last vms vax hobby cdrom from Montagar software .I looked at my vax and found that ucx 5.0 from the old hobby cdrom was installed by polycenter.For installing the next version ,5.1 that is on the cdrom I'll receive in a few days if it does not get lost among the mountains of chocolate of Christmas ....should I remove the old version first ,or if I keep it ,will vms use the last one?Thanks alain nierveze ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:34:35 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: ucx (more info needed) Message-ID: <00A837F2.08D4138F@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <003001c95482$4cb0b2e0$2221f8c1@nierveze>, "nierveze" writes: >Hello again ,after our discussion about ucx and dhcp ,I bought the last vms >vax hobby cdrom from Montagar software .I looked at my vax and found that >ucx 5.0 from the old hobby cdrom was installed by polycenter.For installing >the next version ,5.1 that is on the cdrom I'll receive in a few days if it >does not get lost among the mountains of chocolate of Christmas ....should I >remove the old version first ,or if I keep it ,will vms use the last >one?Thanks alain nierveze Installing the latest version will be *upgrading* UCX. When you install it, it will replace current executables and related support files with a set images and files for the version you are installing. Your configur- ation files should be unscathed. There may be some reconfiguration that you may need to do. Read the release notes. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:17:13 +0100 From: "nierveze" Subject: Re: ucx (more info needed) Message-ID: <003501c95499$70ca37c0$4669fac1@nierveze> thanks,it is clear.best regards alain nierveze -----Message d'origine----- De : VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG =C0 : Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com Date : mardi 2 d=E9cembre 2008 16:37 Objet : Re: ucx (more info needed) >In article <003001c95482$4cb0b2e0$2221f8c1@nierveze>, "nierveze" writes: >>Hello again ,after our discussion about ucx and dhcp ,I bought the last vms >>vax hobby cdrom from Montagar software .I looked at my vax and found th= at >>ucx 5.0 from the old hobby cdrom was installed by polycenter.For installing >>the next version ,5.1 that is on the cdrom I'll receive in a few days i= f it >>does not get lost among the mountains of chocolate of Christmas ....sho= uld I >>remove the old version first ,or if I keep it ,will vms use the last >>one?Thanks alain nierveze > >Installing the latest version will be *upgrading* UCX. When you install >it, it will replace current executables and related support files with a >set images and files for the version you are installing. Your configur- >ation files should be unscathed. There may be some reconfiguration that >you may need to do. Read the release notes. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 10:07:17 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: VMS SIG Tape released (last from me) Message-ID: <3e2e5e15-28cc-42ca-91f5-9b7a288950dd@o2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On Nov 29, 7:08=A0pm, glenn everhart wrote: > All - > This is to let you know I have (belatedly) released another VMS sig tape > to those I had on the tree. =A0The following describes what is there; I > have mailed the last bunch of CDs today, though those needing the > material who cannot find the tree may contact me. > > I expect this will be the last VMS set I will make. I have sent > historical material to Henry Juengst (the address I have is 578 Ginger > Trail, Apt. 206, Newport News, VA 23608-1727, juen...@moose.jlab.org) as > well as the tapes since he has been most generous with support in the > past. If someone else should be named I can and will send the like to a > successor. The material has been collected since late 2006 and actually > has a good bit released in 2008, though the volume seems to have > decreased somewhat. > Thank you, Glenn. I still have my few CDs and even a few magtapes purchased over the years (not subsidized by my employers or I'd have more!) and I look forward to gathering up this latest set online. Thanks for all the effort. Rich Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:25:46 -0800 (PST) From: steel_and_alum_engr Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: <4058c65b-4200-4d9a-a68e-349665b29968@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> On Nov 30, 10:07=A0am, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > While one can not paint every Cust with the same brush, let me see if the > following is true of your environment: > > 1. You have more OS instances today than you did before you started with > VMware. Likely quite a few more. Especially in Dev/QA I'll agree that, by a pure count of OS instances, yes, we now have more. Not quite a few more, but more. However, in the 2+ years since VMware has been implemented at our site, with or without VMware, the number of OS instances would've grown by now. The difference -- with VMware, additional/individual hardware platforms have been avoided, and a lot of hardware has been eliminated. > 2. While the HW, DC space and electrical costs have decreased, your staff= ing > has not decreased and in fact, may have increased to support the addition= al > OS instances. Although I'm not a part of our company's I/S group, I'm guessing that their staffing has not decreased. I'm also not aware of a staffing increase due to VMware. As far as I know, virtualization was not implemented at our site to decrease head count. > 3. Your App license costs have increased to cover the additional instance= s > Of the various third party and support products required. This may be true. Again, not being part of the I/S group, I'm not aware of all the licensing agreements they might have. I do know there is a substantial licensing charge with VMware's ESX server software. There is a freebie version, but that's not what we're using. I'm a part of the automation group, and we partnered with I/S, using VMware to make better use of hardware resources, and to shore up our disaster recovery situation. > 4. Once a VM is created, it almost never gets taken down or reclaimed onc= e > its primary reason for creation goes away. One benefit that we've enjoyed with virtual machines -- it's very easy to create one for testing purposes. Creating a VM is certainly easier than locating a spare piece of hardware, loading the OS, downloading patches & updates, loading applications, etc. For example, we have several pre-configured virtual "template" systems "on the shelf" that can be up and running in a matter of minutes. Using this approach, if I want to do some offline testing with a specific application or interface, the ease of creating a virtual test system is a nice advantage. Once the testing is complete, the virtual machine can be taken down -- and we have done this any number of times. > I will bet that at least 3 out of the 4 points are true in your shop. > Virtualization absolutely has benefits. No question about it. > Unfortunately, it does not reduce staffing and in most cases, App sw > licensing costs. Due to the ease of creating VM's, both of these costs > will likely increase. Again, we did not adopt virtualization to cut staff. There were other reasons that drove it in our company. Better utilization of hardware, increased uptime, eliminating single points of failure, the ability to seamlessly move virtual machines from platform to platform, improved disaster recovery -- these things were our motivation and justification. Can't argue about licensing costs. VMware costs money. Additional copies of OS cost money. Apps cost money. However, downtime also costs money. In our case, system downtime (which means mill downtime) is the 800lb gorilla. > And since IT staffing is usually 60-70% of most IT budgets, > virtualization does not address the 800lb gorilla of most IT budgets > when it comes to reducing overall IT costs. > Now, what will your CIO's answer be when the CEO asks "its great that > you have now completed most of the virtualization you had planned, > but now tell me how you plan to further reduce IT costs by an > additional 15% next year." Can't answer that one. Luckily, in my current position, I don't have to. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:33:39 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: VMS, HP and the recession Message-ID: <002140a3$0$12298$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> steel_and_alum_engr wrote: > One benefit that we've enjoyed with virtual machines -- it's very easy > to create one for testing purposes. Creating a VM is certainly > easier than locating a spare piece of hardware, loading the OS, > downloading patches & updates, loading applications, etc. But you can't test new harware cards, network interfaces etc without taking down the whole server which means taking down all instances that run on it. When you have a separare test machine, you can test hardware to your hearts content without affecting production. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:59:07 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: Someone forwarded this to me. I am still an employee of HP and of OpenVMS Engineering. For a variety of reasons, I have chosen to not spend time in cov. To be honest it wasn't even a decision. I gradually spent less and less time checking in on the newgroup until one day I realized that I hadn't opened it in over a month and hadn't missed it. The signal to noise ratio was way too high. The number of unpleasant exchanges going on was way too high. It seemed that there was no way to answer anything but the simplest question that didn't cause one of the regulars to launch into a retrospective name calling about all perceived and real wrongs of the past - and dire predictions of the future. Perhaps things have changed (hope springs eternal)? I'll look in from time to time over the next few weeks and decide if it is worthwhile to keep track of things here. "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:48ffae65$0$9662$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > John Reagan wrote: > >> I'm still here. Who are you concerned about? Perhaps we're busy or on >> vacation? All of the folks that normally post here from VMS are still >> around as far as I know. > > I was thinking about FredKleinsorge for instance. > > I know Hoff is no longer HP employee, but his, and FredK's lack of > participation here has been noticed (at least by me). > > BTW, aren't you technically an Intel employee ? Or are you still > officially VMS engineering and paid by HP ? > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:18:52 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <014543f2$0$21875$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> FredK wrote: > Someone forwarded this to me. > > I am still an employee of HP and of OpenVMS Engineering. For a variety of > reasons, I have chosen to not spend time in cov. To be honest it wasn't > even a decision. I gradually spent less and less time checking in on the > newgroup until one day I realized that I hadn't opened it in over a month > and hadn't missed it. The signal to noise ratio was way too high. The Now, before the usual c.o.v. pedants en masse demonstrate the converse and confirm Fred's expressed fears ... > number of unpleasant exchanges going on was way too high. It seemed that > there was no way to answer anything but the simplest question that didn't > cause one of the regulars to launch into a retrospective name calling about > all perceived and real wrongs of the past - and dire predictions of the > future. > > Perhaps things have changed (hope springs eternal)? I'll look in from time > to time over the next few weeks and decide if it is worthwhile to keep track > of things here. > > "JF Mezei" wrote in message > news:48ffae65$0$9662$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... >> John Reagan wrote: >> >>> I'm still here. Who are you concerned about? Perhaps we're busy or on >>> vacation? All of the folks that normally post here from VMS are still >>> around as far as I know. >> I was thinking about FredKleinsorge for instance. >> >> I know Hoff is no longer HP employee, but his, and FredK's lack of >> participation here has been noticed (at least by me). >> >> BTW, aren't you technically an Intel employee ? Or are you still >> officially VMS engineering and paid by HP ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:41:56 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <00A837F3.0F5E6507@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <014543f2$0$21875$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, Mark Daniel writes: >FredK wrote: >> Someone forwarded this to me. >> >> I am still an employee of HP and of OpenVMS Engineering. For a variety of >> reasons, I have chosen to not spend time in cov. To be honest it wasn't >> even a decision. I gradually spent less and less time checking in on the >> newgroup until one day I realized that I hadn't opened it in over a month >> and hadn't missed it. The signal to noise ratio was way too high. The > >Now, before the usual c.o.v. pedants en masse demonstrate the converse >and confirm Fred's expressed fears ... Well your follow-up and mine now might be considered noise in the signal but I feel there's been a marked improvement to c.o.v. of late. Perhaps September 1993 is coming to a close? Just my opinion posted on this day 5572-SEP-1993 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:49:51 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <08120209495166_2020048A@antinode.info> From: "FredK" > [...] For a variety of > reasons, I have chosen to not spend time in cov. To be honest it wasn't > even a decision. I gradually spent less and less time checking in on the > newgroup until one day I realized that I hadn't opened it in over a month > and hadn't missed it. The signal to noise ratio was way too high. [...] Haven't you been paying attention? I've been told repeatedly (for years, until I (mostly) stopped bothering to complain) that all the noise was the result of free people exercising their basic rights, and that that there were no significant adverse consequences to any of the off-topic rambles. Now you come along and testify to the contrary. What's a fellow to believe? > Perhaps things have changed (hope springs eternal)? I'll look in from time > to time over the next few weeks and decide if it is worthwhile to keep track > of things here. As in so many things, low expectations would probably be appropriate. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 05:29:13 -0800 (PST) From: tadamsmar Subject: X-terminals Message-ID: <4968360c-0197-415d-8ced-f98f9e2057af@x14g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> I need to buy 3 X-terminals for a DS-10 running VMS 7.3-2. Any suggestions? Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:58:40 +0100 From: Robin Schipper <"thespriteman Subject: Re: X-terminals Message-ID: <49353f10$0$195$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> tadamsmar schreef: > I need to buy 3 X-terminals for a DS-10 running VMS 7.3-2. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks! > hi, where are u from? we used to have some X-terminals, perhaps i can rescue a few from the scrap With Regards, Robin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 06:55:00 -0800 (PST) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: X-terminals Message-ID: On Dec 2, 8:58=A0am, Robin Schipper <"thespriteman wrote: > tadamsmar schreef:> I need to buy 3 X-terminals for a DS-10 running VMS 7= .3-2. > > > Any suggestions? > > > Thanks! > > hi, > > where are u from? > > we used to have some X-terminals, perhaps i can rescue a few from the scr= ap > > With Regards, > > Robin I am in Chapel Hill, NC. But I would like to look at some new ones, too. This upgrade is to some extent cosmetic, but the ones you have might be good enough. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:56:08 -0800 From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" Subject: Re: X-terminals Message-ID: tadamsmar wrote: > I need to buy 3 X-terminals for a DS-10 running VMS 7.3-2. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks! I assume that by X-terminal you mean something that can run X-Windows. I use Linux on a PC with an LK-464 keyboard. Jeff Coffield ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 07:27:25 -0800 (PST) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: X-terminals Message-ID: <701c5897-c1d4-4039-bb5d-98215b66b051@o2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On Dec 2, 9:56=A0am, "Jeffrey H. Coffield" wrote: > tadamsmar wrote: > > I need to buy 3 X-terminals for a DS-10 running VMS 7.3-2. > > > Any suggestions? > > > Thanks! > > I assume that by X-terminal you mean something that can run X-Windows. I > use Linux on a PC with an LK-464 keyboard. > > Jeff Coffield Actually, I use X-free on PCs at many locations. But, this location is where the client (lab techs and researchers) access a lab system. X-free is somewhat more difficult to log in to than the current old Tektronixs X-terminals. With the current X-terminals the worst case is that you have to power up and just enter a username and password in the DecWindows screen. We don't want to make it any harder than that. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:56:37 -0000 From: "Richard Brodie" Subject: Re: X-terminals Message-ID: "tadamsmar" wrote in message news:701c5897-c1d4-4039-bb5d-98215b66b051@o2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com... >With the current X-terminals the worst case is that you have to power >up and just enter a username and password in the DecWindows screen. >We don't want to make it any harder than that. Generally if you find a Linux based thin client, it will have X in there somewhere, as well as RDP or whatever else is fashionable these days. There generally won't be any concession to VMS though, so you're largely on your own getting them to play nice. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 08:55:18 -0800 (PST) From: PR Subject: Re: X-terminals Message-ID: On Dec 2, 7:29=A0am, tadamsmar wrote: > I need to buy 3 X-terminals for a DS-10 running VMS 7.3-2. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks! I buy RBT thin clients from BosaNova, loaded with Linux. Very cost effective, easy to configure, small very green machines, and good support. The contact I have listed for BosaNova is: Stuart Pladgeman - 866-865-5250 I also have some Neoware thin clients around that do a good job. Contact for that is: Debbie Mitchel, 800 NEOWARE X 121. Both thin clients will allow you to configure the system to do exactly what you want, but I expect the RBT will really suit your needs. Ask them for a demo. I am not affiliated with either of the above companies, just a customer. :) -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 17:08:27 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: X-terminals Message-ID: In article , tadamsmar writes: > On Dec 2, 8:58=A0am, Robin Schipper <"thespriteman wrote: > > tadamsmar schreef:> I need to buy 3 X-terminals for a DS-10 running VMS 7= > .3-2. > > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > > Thanks! > > > > I am in Chapel Hill, NC. I remotely remember I attended a "Radiation Damage to DNA" conference loong ago, in 1999 I think. Accommodated in Carolina Inn. > But I would like to look at some new ones, too. This upgrade is to > some extent cosmetic, but the ones you have might be good enough. I think there are no "new" classical X-terminals any more, unfortunately. Tektronix' business was eaten by NCD, who themselves went belly up in 2000-something. Considering one of their last products, the NC900, they deserved it. However, the classical products such as Explora or the XP series are still usable, IMHO. Much less hassle than a Linux PC or those so called thin-clients. I have a couple of the classical hardware, but it is not worth it to ship them across the pond. So you better watch out for some used boxes in your area. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:17:25 +0100 From: Robin Schipper <"thespriteman Subject: Re: X-terminals Message-ID: <49356da5$0$190$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> Michael Kraemer schreef: > In article , > tadamsmar writes: > >> On Dec 2, 8:58=A0am, Robin Schipper <"thespriteman wrote: >> >>> tadamsmar schreef:> I need to buy 3 X-terminals for a DS-10 running VMS 7= >>> >> .3-2. >> >>>> Any suggestions? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >> I am in Chapel Hill, NC. >> > > I remotely remember I attended a "Radiation Damage to DNA" conference > loong ago, in 1999 I think. Accommodated in Carolina Inn. > > >> But I would like to look at some new ones, too. This upgrade is to >> some extent cosmetic, but the ones you have might be good enough. >> > > I think there are no "new" classical X-terminals any more, > unfortunately. Tektronix' business was eaten by NCD, who themselves > went belly up in 2000-something. Considering one of their last products, > the NC900, they deserved it. > However, the classical products such as Explora or the XP series > are still usable, IMHO. Much less hassle than a Linux PC or those > so called thin-clients. > I have a couple of the classical hardware, but it is not worth it to > ship them across the pond. So you better watch out for some used > boxes in your area. > we had a large number of NC910 (from Tektronics later NCD) but now we have made an Linux image (Based on RHEL4) wich runs on HP dc7600 or dc7700 Small Form Factor PC's the Linux pc's boot up after power down, and automaticly start the X-session with VMS. if u would like i could give u some information about it. here is a link to the succesor of NCD http://www.tp-sys.com/index.php?modules=products&content=legacy_ncd&legprod=N900 With regards, Robin PS. the keyboard thing wasn't that easy for us. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:57:00 -0800 (PST) From: "gl@decadence.it" Subject: Re: X-terminals Message-ID: <942299a3-b08c-4c7b-98da-4c3b6e905420@t2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On 2 Dic, 14:29, tadamsmar wrote: > I need to buy 3 X-terminals for a DS-10 running VMS 7.3-2. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks! HP Thin Clients are really the best ones. The ones running Linux (not Thinconnect) are XDMCP capable. Kind regards gl ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.644 ************************