(Copyright (c) 1986 by Apple Computer, Inc. and MCU, Inc. All rights reserved. Reproduction, in whole or in part, in any form (including electronic), without the express WRITTEN permission of Apple Computer, Inc. and MCU, Inc. is strictly prohibited.) {This is an edited transcript of the AppleTeam CO held Tuesday, April 8, 1986, in the special CO auditorium for MAUG(tm). Present from Apple were: Jean-Louis Gassee - Vice President, Product Development Chris Espinosa - Manager, Systems Software Scott Knaster - Manager, Tech Support Dan Cochran - Manager, Languages and Compilers Guy Kawasaki - Manager, Software Product Management Alain Rossman - Manager, Software Evangelism Pete McDonald - Apple II Tech Support --- andmany others who did not speak directly --- Because of the size of the CO, many lines were dropped as people typing out of turn overrode people who were speaking. This is why no one is supposed to type out of turn. To minimize confusion, lines have been left as they were typed. If one line seems not to follow another, or lines seem to be missing, apologies, but that's how it got here.} (Neil/Sysop) Hi to everyone there at the Apple terminal from everyone... I will turn it over to you at Apple in just a second... for some opening remarks... I just first want to thank you all for being... here this evening and to say that it is events... like this which make me proud to own an Apple-brand product. In... the past year we have all seen that the new cadre of... people at Apple care very much for us, their users, and for... the good old "user group culture!" With that over to the Apple Team for some opening remarks and then... we will take questions but hold your questions until... I call for them people thanks. Over to you Apple! Go ahead!! (APPLE TEAM) Hello, we're there, all of us and ready ... THere are no indiscrete questions, only indiscrete answers! (David Sternlight) How are we doing on getting the System and Finder versions uploaded here??? (APPLE TEAM) has been approved by our legal department... We are waiting for the System Version 3.2 to be completed before we... begin electronic distribution... We are logging off for 1 minute to switch to another system (Open Mac)...Dan. (Harry Conover/STAFF) Beer, here, beer, here. (M Fischer) Neil - how about asking Apple to identify who is talking (Neil/Sysop) Yes, I will ask Apple to idnetify! (Dan Smith/ERI) Whisper to neighbor --did they say "Open Mac"?!!!! (Neil/Sysop) Announcement: We have a new Forum that will open sometime tomorrow!!! interested in user groups or who is presently an officer in one or a member.. The page is PCS-95 and you can request membership starting tomorrow! (Apple Team) We're back on the Open Mac!! (Neil/Sysop) There have been a few requests that when you (Apple) talk you identify as to who is... speaking on that transmission.... Of course, you _can_ lie.... {The next questioner attempted to upload his question and it was garbled} (JOHNDU) thru the discount university sales program. Harvard announcement. Clearly I would be better off to get have said they'd do it- why not, since they get the office in Marlboro, Mass. can give me a DEFINITE here on CIS about a 6 weeks ago asking the same into it' and respond by EMAIL. Since then, silence. program? And why isn't this policy made known to to a rebate. The price drop on the Mac+, combined And while I'm on the soapbox: why can't Apple in general MacPascal 2.0 upgrade, because the dealer didn't know from Apple on how to copy the disks so Pascal would them, I assure you, are VERY frustrated and co7tused by the shifting sands of Apple upgrades and policies. (Apple Team) We got it garbled, but we'll try to interpolate... We think that the first question was "Why aren't there special prices for upgrades for universities?" We'd like to stick to Product Development... questions, and not sales or marketing stuff... (JOHNDU) don't cop out!! answer the question!! you promised an answer 6 weeks ago!! (Apple Team) Ok, ok, please briefly repeat the question (JOHNDU) briefly: I bought my 512K mac in dec. thru a university. I acn't get the upgrade with rebate thru them. Can I go to a regular dealer... and get the upgrade an get a rebate? This is a simple policy question that no one at any level at Apple seems to be able to answer.... (Apple Team) We agree that you deserve an answer... We think that you can take it to a dealer, buy the upgrade, and get the rebate. If we weren't using the phone already, we'd call Bud Colligan (Univ. Sales) and ask. You might wish to call him tomorrow at 408-973-4114. Macintosh Pascal 2.0 is not copy... protected!!!!! We also guarantee... that it, like all software, has at least one bug, but we reserve the right to fix it and introduce another at any moment... ---Scott (Jay O'Conor) when can we expect ot see the 512K development system... Smalltalk, and what future macintosh architectures are being actively persued? (Apple Team) Dan here...The Macintosh Programmer's Workshop, including... Macintosh Workshop Pascal and Macintosh Workshop C will not... ship before the fall. I expect to have a "brown bag" version... available through non-retail channels sometime in late summer... Smalltalk is available today and will be a real retail product... in 1987 and will incorporate a Macintosh User-Interface... This is version 1 and is available from our mail-house... The order form for Smalltalk is in the Macintosh Software Supplement.... (Dave Harvey) When will ROM fix for 3.5" drive bug reach dealers? (Apple Team) Pete Here I am currently trying to find out the exact answer for half a dozen other folks I understand that there is an upgrade policy, and that new units are including the fix.. Until I get a firm answer I can't say any more. If anyone concerned would send me Email, I will let you know when I do. That acct # is 76703,3030 to Pete McDonald (Mike Query) I think you might have answered this but, I keep... reading, especially in Mac Revealed, about the Mac Pascal Compiler... (Apple Team) We did answer that just a moment ago... Dan said that it will be out... not before fall. For more information, check the transcript. By the way, just to prevent confusion, the previous question about the 3.5 ROM bug was an Apple II question. As you know, (Phil Hutchison) I recently purchased Mac+... I am trying to print to... Old Imagewriter I... All I get is garbage from all... applications;... My dealer told me to switch XON/Xoff... DIP, didn't work... Someone said there was... a version 2.2 of printer driver... Dealer knew nothing, does it ... exist, and if so, could... it be uploaded to Comp Serve... so we could download. (Apple Team) Yes, we will make it available for downloading, but it s now available at your.. dealer. HOWEVER.. that's not your problem. It's more likely that you've got a baud rate mismatch. The printer needs to be set to 9600 baud by the dip switches. (Jon Hardis) Having had the experience with the Lisa ... do you think that you can successfully market ... another machine costing more than $8000? P.S. Having raised the specter of the "Open Mac" ... when can it be described or demoed? (Apple Team) Jean-Loouis Gassee here ... I meant JLG for short ... First we have not raised the specter but hope to raise the sceptre ... Now, as far as price is concerned ... you should not worry, just see your accountant ... before April 15th. Seriously, price is not the issue, it's the value that you want to secure inside any given price envelope. Not being the VP in charge of pre-announcements I won't speculate on dates. Not in 1986 though ... (MarkZ 512+) I have need to write a printer driver for a PLUS where do I get DETAILED info on this also to Jon - Lisa sold for 995 at Computerland Clearance - New model 2 (Apple Team) The best source of info on writing printing drivers is the source to the Imagewriter driver, which is available from Apple's Software Licensing Dept. (call 408- 973-4667 for info)... (Dan Horn) With the current trend towards... laptops and portables do you think the Alan Kay Clipboard system could exist in the near... future? and what of this hands free interface? (Apple Team) Jean-Louis Gassee here: You must allude to Alan's dream, the Dynabook. The Clipboard can currently be found under the Apple menu ... sorry, the Edit menu. Now we need better batteries (less grams, sorry ounces per watt/h ... better plat-panel display technology, and a wireless mouse replacement. We have a few things going for us: besides the Mac user interface we can build on we have nice 3.5 inch drives and will develop their ability to serve in rugged environments. Now, I'd like to be sitting under a tree and be connected to Compuserve thru a cellular modem ... Someday. (Steven Locke) Developer relations used to be so supportive. Recently things... have deteriorated and it took 10 Boston>CA phone calls... to get an RMA to return something. Has there been a reorgani-... zation of the dept.? (Apple Team) Guy here. I recently acquired Devloper Relations from Corp. Now order entry is at the support sites to speed order entry. You should write or call the support sites to get your answers. There are two sites: Sunnyvale and Boston. Did you ever get any support from IBM as a developer? (Elizabeth) congratulations on your engagement GUY (Neil/Sysop) Apple, I am looking forward to four things in... the coming year. A trip to DisneyWorld, the Open Mac, an introduction to Joan Jett and... RAMBO the Apple //x!!! On that last we have had much activity on APPLE2. Can you people comment at all on the //x as to what we might look forward to or as to how the upgrade path -- and if there is one -- may be handled???? (Apple Team) Guy here. Thanks for the congrats on getting engaged. Please send wedding presents to 20525 Mariani. Cupertino 95014. This will help you with Developer Relations problems. (Harry Conover/STAFF) You send the cables, we'll send the presents. (Apple Team) JLG here: It's hard to take the floor after the inimitable Kawasaki. He has one message for Harry: (Harry Conover/STAFF) unh..I think I've a phone call in the other room... (Apple Team) why cables, isn't the straightjacket holding? (Harry Conover/STAFF) rrr..Morganna sez Hi, boys. (Neil/Sysop) Apple, uh, did you get my //x question??? (Apple Team) Now, future Apple // products. Let me just say that we will make Apple // users happy ... whenever and however that is. done (MacDunc) I am the Software Librarian for the University of Texas Mac Users Group. My members would like to know when (if ever) we can expect 68020 processors,co-processors, and a full- Duncan (MacDunc) Newton (72277,31) (Apple Team) JLG here: I guess the missing part of the question meant full-page screen. 68020: Levco is selling an interesting 020 board ... As far as larger screens are concerned we understand the need and will cater to it some time in the future. Sorry about the trite answer, but we're listening even if we're not pre-announcing. (MIKE PEASE) THIS IS A TWO FOLD QUESTION CAN YOU TELL US WHEN THE APPLE IIX WILL BE RELEASED IN 1986 AND HOW WILL THE NEW COMPUTER BE DIFFERENT FROM THE APPLE IIE OR C (Apple Team) JLG here: How do I put it nicely? I can't discuss it, you will cuss ... Save some money though ... (Neil/Sysop) (I will buy a CD...) (Amy Grossman) Does Apple plan to enter the color computer business in the way that Atari and Commodore have recently done? (Apple Team) JLG here: 1. NO!!! 2. I like my job, so we'll do it right! (Marcel Rivard) I'm with MacDunc, Maybe one of these .. "I'm Listening but not pre-announcing " systems will lie smack dab in the middle of the .. engineering workstation market ??? (Apple Team) JLG here: How do we show engineers jumping off cliffs? No we won't do that again, promise. Certainly not with engineers, maybe GAP II programmers ... Anyways a lot of the compact Macintosh we sell today are going into scientific/engineering applications, so no reason to hope for less with other Macs. Lets have Ari, perhaps? (Marcel Rivard) thanks, oh well I guess I'll have to just chase the SUN (Shawn Quick) Two part question: 1) is there or ever will be a Multitasking finder that Andy Hertzfeld is working on. 2) will the new MDS system support the .REL file format that MacTutor magazine is stressing so badly or will we be back to square one with a new format??? ga (Apple Team) Dan here... We've had a great time with Switcher and will be very receptive to anything that Andy can do.. to provide multitasking capability on the Mac. The new Macintosh Programmer's Workshop will not support the current MDS format because of limitations in that.. format. We can improve link time dramatically by.. doing different things. We really want ultimate .. performance with the new system and don't feel that.. link file compatibility is worth compromising our.. design. The new MPW link file format is already public.. for language developers. Write to me and I'll get it.. to you. (Ari S. - ISRAEL) Why we here in Israel cannot rceive Apple's.. new products for develop and beta testing? The first Mac+ arrived Feb, 1 1986?? done (Apple Team) If you are a software/hardware developer you.. need to get the mind share of the local.. Apple Macintosh Apple Office. If you have a US office you could.. work directly with the Cupertino team from your US office. By the way..Feb 1st was the date that.. Mac+ was first shipped worldwide (yes even the US). Mazel Tov...Dan (goy). (Ari S. - ISRAEL) Thanks and shalom (Francois Du Perron) We hear rumours about Mac co pro board and also ms dos co pro for the //e. any comments on that merci a toute la gang done (Apple Team) JLG here: I've always liked co-processor boards since my early Apple days when I got my initiation to PIP with a Softcard ... (RICK ESCHER) Apple two questions. First, Do you know of any implementations of ADA for the Mac? Also when can we expect to be able to spool to the LaserWriter? (Apple Team) Alain here: I have talked to the people at Alsys, the inventors of ADA. Their compiler runs on a Sun, but is is a 4Meg Byte pprogram. They will do it for the Mac when we have enough memory: 4Meg MacPlus or Better. We have had a series of Engineer/Developer meetings at Apple to agree on a spooling strategy. I thing we are getting closure. There will be spec published (Prelim) within 2 months. Sidhu (from Apple) led the meetings (LimaPeru/Lakatos) Speaking as an educator at the American School down here when will a version of apple Talk with server especially designed for schools using saludos y gracias (Apple Team) JLG here: I missed the next to last line but I think I got the gist of it. We will market late 1986 in the US market an AppleTalk based Apple // server and cards. Price and detailed features not finalized at this time. The goal is to continue to extend AppleTalk implementations with Apple// and Mac hardware and protocols. (Rico Vaccaro) Is the availablity of localized systems (Rico Vaccaro) cancel (Rico Vaccaro) Can an individual purchase foreign Macs in any country? (Apple Team) No, we only sell localized units in each country... Logistics is the hard part... dealers couldn't cope with too many line items... Didn't I run into you in Manhattan last year? (Oh. LITTLE Italy...) ----Chris (Linda Custer) Thanks, Neil. People's Republic of Berkeley here. Questions: Will Apple ever manage to get out a Mac system that works? Will we ever be able to put more than 15 DAs in our Apple menu? And lastly what will JLG have for dinner at Chez Panisse? Enquiring minds want to know. (Apple Team) Chris and JLG here... JLG's eating homemade spaghetti right now... and speaking of our code... If you're talking about our System file, 3.1 is available now and 3.2 not before May. We promise to stop thrashing, honest. As for feature improvements, some of those limitations are archetectural, sorry, to change them would make apps and DAs stop working. We value your software investment and don't want to make it break. JLG can't comment on unannounced meals. Chris (BCS/Mac) Will 512K Mac's in the future be shipped with internal 800K drives and the updated ROM's? --Robert Hafer (Apple Team) Chris here... In the future... how near? (bill,ny) 1) did JLG say that the color mac monitor is not dead?.. if yes then when... 2) are there opportunities for telecommuting programmers at apple? and lastly.. re a/// I read that there was an extra chip to prevent access to all 128k in emulation mode. can we remove this chip? Jlg> I'd love to join u under the tree with a maclap (Apple Team) JLG here: I'm somewhat puzzled .. color mac monitor not dead: have another bier! telecommuting: I don't encourage it, how do you get the real gossip? chip preventing ... we also have the formula for the water-powered engine in our vaults. Maclap? I think I don't want to get it!! (Keith Horton) On the 3.5 Unidisk bug mentioned earlier... I missed what the bug was. ?? As a recent acquirer of a 3.5, I like it but need to know of any problems. Also, on the AppleWorks 1.3 upgrade... (Apple Team) Pete here This has been covered pretty well on Maug . In short, the write protct Function does not work properly. That is not to say it will write to a protected disk. What happens is rather complicated to explain in short.. So check the ongoing thread in Apple II Maug. Either way it has been fixed, you do want to get it. Send Email to Pete Mc Donald 76703,3030. As soon as I know more I will tell. (Donald Brown[STAFF]) Given the seriousness of the Mac System 3.0 bug, any possibility of reconsidering getting 3.1.1 up on Macus? (Apple Team) Chris (victim) here... We're working on the following... System 3.2 Finder 5.3 LaserWriter/Laser Prep 3.1 ImageWriter/AppleTalk ImageWriter 2.3 new Chooser (bug fixes) All these are bug fixes to System 3.0/ Finder 5.0-class problems. No new features have been introduced. We plan to have the new software done, but not before May... it's out to _selected_ developers (a number under 10) to find the last few bugs. We want to stop thrashing, and don't want to puit 3.1.1 out on anything until 3.2 is ready. Developers: If you _must_ ship now, use 3.1.1, but don't ship the Installer. If you can wait out the month, do so. Trust me. Chris (John MacVeigh) Are monthly Mac+ sales significantly better than... previous 512K monthly sales, and if so... what do you think cuased the sudden increase?... (No need for specific numbers) (Apple Team) Does Imelda have shoes? What caused it was... a) we didn't preannounce it. b) we delivered what we intended to deliver. c) we introduced worldwide on one day. You judge how good the product is. (Neil/Sysop) (Is Imelda a new code name??) (//er) 1. How important does Apple consider online serviuces to the development of the home PC market (any plans to get directly involved like Commodore did giving away modems and QuantumLink?) 2. What is preferred Mac-like interface for //? (MouseDesk? Catalyst?) (Apple Team) JLG here: I trust our presence here to testify to our belief in the importance of on-line a (flattering) imitation of Compuserve in France. Now as to plan to "give away" modems I don't know of any such project, maybe you want to ask Compuserve if they want to give a modem with the subscription. I'm sure Apple will give CIS a good deal ... User interfaces: lets call it the Apple interface and for any preference between MouseDesk and Catalyst... (PEABO) let's stop fooling around! ... what's the juiciest tidbit of gossip you can let loose tonight?? ... (Apple Team) JLG: .... .... .... (Monday) boo (Richard Ewing) wimps (Rob Hahn) cowards (Stan Bashaw) you guys are no fun!!! (Apple Team) I am in love with John Dvorak. (Monday) have you guys been drinking (Apple Team) done, I mean it. (PEABO) thanks! (Apple Team) Actually, (Neil/Sysop) Well, I've met John -- it's not surprising.... (M Fischer) I wouldn't dream of asking you to pre-announce a product ... but would you tell us when we can expect 1) next major Apple // hardware product? and 2) next major Mac product ... without telling us what it is? done (Apple Team) JLG: Moving right along ... What would you think of us if we would tell you anything like that? But all rumors are true! (PAR) Does Apple expect to develop any SCSI peripherals esp. Hard disk drives... And do you have any experience with any current examples??? (Apple Team) It makes sense that we would, but remember we also have a half million Mac owners who don't have SCSI ports. As for third-party SCSI drives, we know of Micah, SuperMac's Data Frame, and HD20 from MDIdeas. All are imressive, fast, and inexpensive. There's also the biggie, the AST 70MB, if you need tremendous speed and capacity. (Michael L. (///er)) The Apple /// community feels abandoned by Apple... Will Apple ever do anything to correct this?... I don't want to hear about Sun Data; that was a cop-out on Apple's part... At this point, I'd say that the very least Apple could do would be to.. release a lot of copyrighted /// code into the public domain... (like the SOS source code?) (Apple Team) JLG: Your feelings are not new to me, that does not me we can't do anything. The request to make A/// code to public domain is new (at least to yours truly here). I have to investigate that one. Sorry I can't be more precise. (Pat Phelan) Thanks Neil. First of all... I'd like to thank the folks at Apple for... participating tonight. I am a developer for a mid-sized accounting firm... we have a fairly large number of ///s that we use... for strictly internal purposes. We got excellent support ... from our Apple reps when we were starting to develope... but can no lnonger get anything at all.... We have had a second dealer come to the rescue... providing a great deal more support than we had any ... reason to expect, but no support from Apple itself ... after the first dealer dropped the ball... As another problem, we started to investigate a change from the /// to the Mac, and were politely told where we could go if the software... was not intended to be marketed. (Apple Team) Alain here: There is excellent support on MAUG for Apple III. Our Developer are intended for commercial developers This is correct. I still think that it would be a good idea to move to the Mac. We have good Pascal, Basic, and ... Cobol the Mac. This of course will greatly help the port. There is also very good support for this on MAUG. By the way everybody should try LightSpeed C from Think Technologies. It compiles about 200 lines per second !!! (Tom Mackie/PMUG) You've been very precise about not using System 3.0 and what is to come in May, but can't we be as precise about what combo of Sys/Finder to use now? e.g. 3.1 or 3.1.1./5.1 or 5.2 etc (Apple Team) Chris here... The problem is that each System file has problems. You get to pick which problem you want. 3.0 has an UpdateResFile bug that trashes files. 3.1 is better, it fixes that problem, but it locks Pack 6, which causes many applications to crash because of a fragmented heap. 3.1.1 fixes _that_, but it won't work with the Installer and its scripts. All these problems were caused by our knee-jerk reaction to fixing bugs without testing _extensively_ first. That's why we're waiting a good long time to release 3.2, which will be supposedly free of all known bugs. As for the Finder, 5.2 is the best... there are a few problems with the Trash Can. But you know that an open Chris (bdial) 1. Could you comment on Lisa suppport,(workshop and 7/7)?... 2. I am a software engineer & I think that apple is missing the boat if they do not offer direct assistance to companys doing private development (Apple Team) Dan here: 1. The Lisa Workshop is still one of the premier... environments for developing Macintosh software. We'll continue to support (but probably not revise).. that product for those who wish to continue using it. All the functionality, power, and features of the .. Workshop will be available in the forthcoming Macintosh Programmer's Workshop (and more). This product is in alpha test to a limited group and the resopnse has been great. Lisa 7/7 will not see any more revisions. 2. If you are developing software products, either.. for commercial, OEM, or vertical markets, and have the wherewithal to do so, you too can be a Certified Developer. Or you can send a wedding present to Guy Kawasaki. We don't harbor any Elitism when it comes to development.. nor do we have a monopoly on technical expertise. When it comes to developer support, MAUG's MacDev and Apple // SIG's are one of the best places to be...Dan. (Darko) When will HFS MacWorks be available... I'd like to register my vote for a large screen Mac... And when will the products mentioned... in April "Outside Apple" be shipping? (Apple Team) Chris here... The cellular mobile 4Mb flat-screen color Mac is available now. Solar option coming real soon now. We're working with 7-11 for a retail deal. Seriously... As I pre-announced the MacWorks HFS upgrade, I get to unannounce it. The Macintosh XL trade-in program has pre-emped any further development work on MacWorks, save fixes of critical bugs. MPW works fine on a large MFS volume, so we're not planning to port the MacPlus ROM to MacWorks. Sorry. As for your vote, it counts. (Speaking of votes, it's unfair to announce, but the polls closed ant it looks like Clint just made Carmel's day...) (Richard Ewing) 1) Is Apple working with any Optical disk, CD-ROM or CD-I tech; 2) Can you elaborate on the smalltalk product due RSN? 3) I play for Yale basketball and participated in your tournament. We were promised a Mac to the coaching staff and never got it. Who... do we complain to? (Joe Hutsko) Richard, since I was in that, I will contact Paul P. at apple and find out (Apple Team) JLG here: Joe answered question 3. 1. You bet we are working on CD-ROMs, will be on the SCSI port (standard or optional on all our future computers. 2. SmallTalk _is_ aailable now, see Software Supplement on MacDev. Now I'd like to say goodnight, thank you all on behalfof the Apple team here. And see you soon on Compuserve!!! (HANK) THANKS APPLE (Sharon) clap...clap (Mark Karp (TMJ) Thank you Apple Team.. (Sharon) CURTAIN CLOSING (Neil/Sysop) IN THAT CASE!!!! THANK YOU APPLE!!!!!!!!! Let's all say goodnight to Apple with a big round of applause!!!! (MarkZ 512+) THANKS APPLE! (Richard Ewing) thanx. (Marc Apfelstadt) clap, clap (Neil/Sysop) clapclapclapclapclap!!! (Stan Bashaw) Thanks Apple!!!! (Mike D.) clap clap (dougmac) clapp clapppp (Andy Hertzfeld) clap clap. (Francois Du Perron) super jobNeil clap clap (Steve Brecher) Here's my question: where can you get a decent spaghetti sauce? (Jon Hardis) Steve, Prego. "It's in there!" (Sort of like the Open Mac) {And the AppleCO came to a close over three hours after it started, many folks staying around to chat amongst themselves} DL 6 - Community Square :